The Conclave

I can definitely see the Inquisition having it's own private fleet of ships for a Sector Conclave to use (Why not?) but what about a personal ship for an Inquisitor and his/her operations? I've heard of Inquisitorial "lightships" and of course the Telepathica Black Ships that Witch Hunters often hitch a ride on and also a Inquisitorial Black Ship that is basically a strike cruiser (I'm not exactly sure if this is canon) along with ships in several books I've seen being described as the usual small, black, sleek and powerful type. What if the Inquisitor doesn't want to deal with a Rogue Trader and wants a personal ship? Eisenhorn had the gun cutter but it wasn't capable of warp travel. It would have to be small enough as to avoid attention (A Grand Cruiser doesn't exactly scream subtlety.) and could operate for long periods of time without having to re-supply which seems to me like a mix between a light cruiser and a frigate but bigger than a corvette. An Inquisitor could commandeer a Imperial Navy ship but even with absolute authority it would be a delicate process. If the sector is busy in terms of naval operations I don't think they would hand over a valuable resource for the Inquisitor's personal use but if a threat was deemed important enough definitely. If the commanding officer was executed for heresy (Actual heresy along the lines of a secessionist plot, chaotic influence or xenos involvement.) along with his officers by an Inquisitor he/she could acquire it during the power void even if the Navy complained and tried to load him/her down with paperwork right?

Besides a ship used by the Conclave what options does the Inquisitor have? If he/she's a Monodominant, along the lines of more subtle Monodominant as posted in my other thread by another member, but a militant nonetheless who wants a extensive network of agents and resources and requires something that can be used for a indefinite time and has the capability of planetary bombardment and can hold its own against most ships its own size but obviously not a Astartes Strike Cruiser? As for Exteriminatus what would you consider realistic in the 40k universe?

An Inquisitor has the authority to sanction Exterminatus but destroying a vital hive world because of five rogue psykers would spell doom for the Inquisitor as the sector conclave would require him to justify his actions or be censured. I've read where an Inquisitor has to get a Astartes battle-barge to carry out the Exterminatus but could a light cruiser or frigate be outfitted with such weapons? It would require impressive political maneuvering, influence and power if possible at all as I would think the higher ups in the Holy Ordos would keep such weapons out of the hands of the majority of the conclave or Inquisition as a whole as the majority of the Imperium would burn. If a daemonic incursion occurs planetwide and it's deemed lost or the same kind of catastrophic event definitely but I just don't see a bunch of children with unliminted power running around with Exterminatus. If the Inquisitor has a master or allies in the upper echelons, such as a very very powerful Inquisitor Lord with the pull, I could see him acquiring it. I'd figure a full blown Inquisition War between extremely influential Inquisitors or their factions would have Exterminatus weapons thrown around. But back to the original question what kind of ship am I looking for?

Quote from: Vladilek on August 18, 2011, 06:18:41 AMbut what about a personal ship for an Inquisitor and his/her operations?

Yes, of course. Inquisitors are incredibly powerful people - if a Rogue Trader can have his own ship, an Inquisitor certainly can.

Two examples from my own collection:

My namesake, Inquisitor Skoll - he took charge of a smuggler's operation, which brought with it the "Ynys Mon", a very fast and agile transport ship. For those who understand Rogue Trader ship profiles, here's the one that I rolled/composed for it:

Speed: 11; Detection: +20; Armour: 12; Space: 40 (Used:40); Manoeuvrability: +33; Hull Integrity: 35; Turret Rating: 1; Power: 48 (Used: 48)
Crew Population: 100; Crew Morale: 101; Crew Rating: 40
Weapon capacity: 1 x Dorsal (Jovian Missile Battery), 1 x Prow (Jovian Missile Battery)
Essential Components: Hull (Orion Star Clipper), Main Cargo Bay, Lathe 2a Drive, Markov 1 Warp Engine, Warpsbane hull, Single Void Shield Array, Commerce Bridge, Vitae Pattern Life Sustainer, Voidsmen Quarters, Deep Void Auger Array.
Optional Components: Jovian Missile Battery (x2), Augmented Retrothrusters, Empyrean Mantle, Observation Dome, Auxillary Plasma Banks, Crack Crew
Complications: Blasphemous Tendencies, Wolf In Sheep's Clothing (Hidden Components: Main Cargo Bay, Both missile batteries)
Total Ship Points: 44

(In retrospect, that wouldn't've been a shabby ship for our current Rogue Trader adventure. Same cost too.)

Not what you'd immediately expect for an Inquisitor, but the idea of a transport ship is a good one for those who would want to be more subtle. And being a smuggler's ship, this one is pretty perfect - the speed, manoeuvrability and cloaking systems to avoid fights, as well as enough firepower for when you do get into them.
And the cargo holds can prove useful too - it never hurts to have room to keep stuff like gun shuttles, vehicles and any other resources you'd rather not have to reacquire on each planet.

It's not too hard to get a smuggler in an armlock over things - not that working for an Inquisitor is going to be much different for them. It's dangerous but very well paid either way.

Now, Inquisitor Rhodes on the other hand - she has a decommissioned Cobra Destroyer. Formerly gutted by enemy fire on a scouting mission, her old mentor recovered it when it drifted close to an Imperial planet some hundreds of years afterwards. Investigating it as a possible threat, he quickly realised it could be useful to him. As it was too heavily damaged to go back into proper Navy service, it was pretty easy for him to secure ownership of it, and so most of a hundred years later, it was passed on to Lyra when Byssus retired to safer deskwork (leaving the roles of field work to agents and his former students).

Of course, those are just two possible examples - much like a Rogue Trader would, simple political pressure and money could get an Inquisitor a ship, as could stealing one or taking it as plunder.

QuoteI've read where an Inquisitor has to get a Astartes battle-barge to carry out the Exterminatus but could a light cruiser or frigate be outfitted with such weapons?

Anything big enough to be warp capable could in theory carry Virus bombs or cyclonic torpedoes, and possibly enough to destroy a planet. Whether the sector conclave would allow such a thing is another matter.

In my mind, legitimately Exterminatus capable ships are limited to a rare few in the Imperial Navy, Adeptus Mechanicus, Inquisition and the largest Space Marine ships.

And to be fair, would you really want to be on a ship that carried such dangerous munitions?

I'm thinking for my namesake, Octavian that he will have a few ships at his command. Probably a destroyer, a cruiser and a battleship (for putting the fear of the emperor in his enemies). My plan is for his Cruiser and battleship to be of a custom design, built for him and will be constructed on lucian. (like his shuttle)

Quote from: Inquisitor Octavian Lars on August 18, 2011, 03:55:23 PMProbably a destroyer, a cruiser and a battleship (for putting the fear of the emperor in his enemies).

Maintaining even a cruiser would stretch the resources of even a very successful Inquisitor, but to maintain a battleship as well would be nearly impossible. The authority to own a fleet is not the same as having the resources to support one (which is a lot more complex than going to the local Imperial Promethium depot and going "Fill 'er up mate".)

If he needs to put the fear of the Emperor in his enemies, it would be more practical to have contacts in the Imperial Navy who can turn up with the big guns when they're needed.

QuoteMy plan is for his Cruiser and battleship to be of a custom design, built for him and will be constructed on lucian.

That's very, very, very unlikely. Building any warp capable ship is incredibly expensive (let alone anything as large as a battleship) and can take decades - it normally takes the most incredibly powerful organisations in the Imperium to order and support the construction of new ships . We're not talking about single Inquisitors, we're talking about the Imperial Navy, entire Conclaves, or a very powerful Inquisitor Lord (who, even then, will likely have to cajole his Conclave to help, and probably won't get exclusive use of it).

Almost every ship owned by an individual, even one as powerful as an Inquisitor, will be a hand me down - hundreds, if not thousands, of years old before they were even born. If they can simply manage to refit it to fulfil their needs, they are doing well.
But to have a new ship, particularly one of that scale, made for you as an individual would mark you out as impossibly powerful.

Not to mention that the idea of a custom ship design probably counts as tech heresy. Modified, perhaps, but to make anything new (rather than developed from an STC) would rile almost the entirety of the Mechanicus. And good luck getting anywhere if no enginseers are willing to work on your vessel because they see it as an abomination against the Omnissiah.

Interesting question. I've always been a little uneasy with the wider Inquisition fluff, particularly the off-shoots that run into the table-top area of the Inquisition as a battlefield force. I appreciate we are concerned mostly with the cloak and dagger stuff, but quite why an Inquisitor would bother to don tin-can power armour and start directing small armies seems beyond me - surely the whole point of the Inquisition is the ability to requisition the necessary specialist resources for any situation.

This means I always envisaged the Inquisitorial headquarters in any Sector being strictly Need to Know - possibly flagged as 'Warning- enter this area on pain of exterminatus (deliveries 8.00-8.30 adjacent moon, strictly by appointment)', but its not the sort of organisation that has receptionists, plastic plants in the foyer and a big sign out front. Unless of course its operating under a much more likely guise of a false front planet side somewhere. Several whacking great ships in a 'secret' space dock orbiting a 'secret' fortress (no doubt under a volcano) seems....meh. I'm rambling aren't I? and obviously this is just a personal view and has no connection with any  canonical information.

So, to get back to the point - why would the Inquisition need or want ships of its own? How often are the controlling Conclave members or Sector Lords going to require the destruction of a planet - not that often, and definitely not often enough to warrant the resources to maintain a large warp-capable military grade vessel. Surely it's so much easier just to phone the Navy? - plus they get the added thrill of bossing someone around and pulling rank left right and centre (a thrill that never becomes stale, I'm sure) AND maintain the EYHBTIAL mystery shtick. I can see a small fleet of discrete, disguised/undercover ships being available, through unconnected front organizations, coerced traders, and those who owe a 'favour' and so forth, so whatever fits or is required is probably available at pretty short notice with absolutely no questions asked.

As Marco states – private transport is very different. Transports are logically the most likely to be used, simply because they must be the most numerous type of vessel, and internally easy to reconfigure to individual need; and for those lucky few with massive clout, possibly upgraded engineering. Even the smallest Navy ship (still a huge crew) is less than subtle, but, it's a big universe so someone must be doing it somewhere.

As for sanctioning exterminatus, whatever the method – there better be a bloody good-reason backed up with suitable power point slides and mountains of data-slates, or else a career is going to end rather abruptly. Exterminatus doesn't – can't – happen that often or just on the whim of an individual (well, not often..) or else the Imperium would end in outright Anarchy as warring factions zapped hives, planets and each other on a whim. 

Quote from: Flinty on August 19, 2011, 01:33:38 PM
As for sanctioning exterminatus, whatever the method – there better be a bloody good-reason backed up with suitable power point slides and mountains of data-slates, or else a career is going to end rather abruptly. Exterminatus doesn't – can't – happen that often or just on the whim of an individual.

This is actually pretty close to the background story of an Inquisitor I came up with as a Dark Heresy antagonist a while back. I went through a phase of creating Inquisitors who really, shouldn't ever have been granted their Inquisitorial seal.

Inquisitor Frank Lambourg was a monodominant who, during his time as an explicator, famously stated: "I would burn an entire world of innocents just to destroy a single heretic." His peers simply dismissed this as a sign of piety and zeal. However, upon earning his Inquisitorial seal, he put his beliefs into practice, burning a civilised world off the Imperial charts by exterminatus.

Aghast, the local conclaves issued many cartas against him, but he is yet to be caught.





Anyway, on the subject of Inquisitorial ships, I can only really echo what others have already said - Whilst an inquisitor may have the authority and sometimes the financial clout to afford their own ship, the majority of inquisitors would probably be contented with simply requisitioning/borrowing ships from other organisations.

An inquisitor would probably only ever need a single ship. What can two or three ships do that one ship cannot? The only thing that multiple ships can do better than a single vessel is fight, and if you're expecting trouble, or a fleet engagement, why go at all? Why not just send in the Navy?

Right then, from what marco said, my new plan is for him to have good navy contacts for big guns, and a Frigate being made for him from some newly discovered STC on lucian for his use in 10-15 years. Untill then, he uses a souped up freighter (5 bajillion hidden gunz) several side cannons and prow ordnance as well as a sizeable launch bay.

Quotesome newly discovered STC

Humm, I would have thought these are a) rarer than hens teeth and b) firmly under the control of the Ad.Mech  and its existance unlikely to be admitted to in any circumstance, even to the Inquisition.

Does it have to be a new one? I think the pimped frieghter (that would take a fair few strings being pulled and fingers twisted/snapped alone) is a neat idea and surely better suited for rooting out the dark secrets in the dim corners of the Imperium than something that would have every bell and whistle blowing the moment it appeared?

Quote from: Flinty on August 19, 2011, 04:31:05 PM
Humm, I would have thought these are a) rarer than hens teeth and b) firmly under the control of the Ad.Mech  and its existance unlikely to be admitted to in any circumstance, even to the Inquisition.  

Well, yes, newly discovered STCs are rare as hell, but they aren't immediately the property of the AdMech upon discovery. Sure, the STC will be as useful as a chocolate teapot without AdMech help, but the STC template itself doesn't necessarily 'belong' to the AdMech until it actually falls into their hands.

I reckon that the Baal Predator is a great example of this. The Blood Angels found the STC, and chose not to hand it over to the AdMech, keeping it for themselves. The Space Marines have their own tech-support people (techmarines) so they tend to get away with this sort of behaviour, even if there may be other negative consequences further down the line.

But people tend not to just be walking along the street and trip over an STC. People who find them, by and large, will have been looking for it. They're normally on uncharted worlds long forgotten by the Imperium, or are hidden in some god-forsaken place. So, your inquisitor will need a damned good reason to find one.

Whilst not impossible, such a story would take some careful crafting. Perhaps the Inquisitor was investigating a non-admech radical techno-worshipping-cult on some backwater planet, only to discover that their 'idol' or 'god' was actually a piece of technology far more advanced than any he had seen before. (Even an Inquisitor wouldn't know what an STC template looks like, in much the same way that an AdMech magos probably wouldn't know how to tell a bloodthirster apart from a lord of change.)

He might have taken such a piece of technology away on his pimp-freighter, deciding that it was probably too valuable to simply destroy or hand over to the planet's authorities.

Although how he got the template identified and put to use without the help of the Adeptus Mechanicus would probably need some explaining. It's a bit like when you're playing monopoly, and you've got Park Lane, and your friend has Mayfair. Neither of you can make use of those properties unless you hold both. Your Inquisitor holds the template, but lacks the expertise to use it, and the AdMech have the expertise, but not the template. And if the AdMech KNEW that you had a template that you weren't sharing, they would probably assassinate you and steal it. Entire wars have probably been fought over less.

A more reasonable explanation is that, as a dutiful servant of the Imperium, he handed the template over to an AdMech Magos whom he trusted. Upon discovering that the template was for a small ship, the Inqusitor became interested. Eventually, after much negotiation, it was agreed that the prototype model of this new ship should be given to the Inquisitor. The Inquisitor would use it in his day to day work, and the Adeptus Mechanicus techpriests on board would report back to the AdMech about how the ship held up.

So, basically, he would be doing product testing for the Admech. It's a bit more reasonable than "I found a template, used it, and ain't sharin'. Y'jelly?"



P.S. I was under the impression that building ships took centuries, not decades. After all, you're basically building a city in space. That sort of thing doesn't get done within a single lifetime... How long did it take to build London, or Chicago?

I felt that if I was to make the ship useable in Octavian's lifetime, it would have to be resonablely quick to construct so as such made the time 10-15 years. Maybe it has a simple construction and the AdMech want this baby for testing ASAP (in my head, Lucians rush into things and expect results quickly).

While Ynek offers a plausible story, it can take many lifetimes for rediscovered STCs to be officially accepted by the AdMech, so this Magos would be being rather brash to just start construction quickly.

Also, he brings up a point I was going to, if in reverse - would an Inquisitor necessarily want a new, mysterious and untested ship? A Sword Frigate might not be special, but they're proven.

Quote from: Ynek on August 19, 2011, 05:11:54 PMHow long did it take to build London, or Chicago?

That's not a very good question for two reasons - firstly, when do you define a city to be "built"? A spaceship has a set of blueprints, so you can look at it and say it's done. But a city has no such hard boundary.

Secondly, these are settlements built over many varying ranges of technology. A settlement has existed at the Thames since almost time immemorial.

The only example I can think of right now where there's a defined start, end and a consistent technology level is Milton Keynes (which isn't officially a city, but was envisioned as one). In that case, the answer is 25 years.

QuoteWhile Ynek offers a plausible story, it can take many lifetimes for rediscovered STCs to be officially accepted by the AdMech, so this Magos would be being rather brash to just start construction quickly.

I shall answer with my own quote.

Quote(in my head, Lucians rush into things and expect results quickly).

QuoteAlso, he brings up a point I was going to, if in reverse - would an Inquisitor necessarily want a new, mysterious and untested ship? A Sword Frigate might not be special, but they're proven.

He still has the pimped freighter, and can always ask for a sword from his navy contacts.

Quote from: Inquisitor Octavian Lars on August 19, 2011, 08:30:08 PM
(in my head, Lucians rush into things and expect results quickly).

Kinda makes sense. The quest for knowledge waits for no man, right?


On the subject of ship/city building...
Whilst it is true that a city could probably be built in a few decades, I like to think of Imperial ships as being something that takes a real amount of dedication, resources and time to complete. I like to think that generations of builders were involved in it's construction, over several centuries, until the ship is finally completed, at which point, there would be planet-wide celebration and jubilation.

In the Rogue Trader (RPG) rulebook, it states that ships can take anywhere from decades to centuries to build. (first paragraph of 'anatomy of a starship', page 189.) So I'd imagine that some ships would take longer than others to build on account of their size, or because the technology involved in their construction is particularly sensitive, complex or poorly understood (this last one would probably apply in this case).

Additionally, most 'new' ships are made from recycled, salvaged wrecks and the like. Rebuilding a ship from a wreck might take decades, but starting from scratch would almost certainly take longer.

I tend to imagine that it's only the very small ships, such as cobras, swords, firestorms, falchions, vipers and the like that take a matter of decades. I like to think that when a cruiser sails out of drydock, it's already centuries old... But that's just personal preference, I suppose.

Rather than cities - perhaps Cathedrals would be a better analogy, espceially given GW's fondness for making the original Titans look distinctly architectural.

The more I think about it, the more I like the idea of 'generational' ship construction, I could see that for the larger classes.

Quote from: Inquisitor Octavian Lars on August 19, 2011, 08:30:08 PMI shall answer with my own quote.

Quote(in my head, Lucians rush into things and expect results quickly).

Whoa, easy on the stereotyping. This is all too overdone in sci-fi, where entire planets are written with a very narrow range of cultures and temperaments. Similar to the whole thing where all the action happens in just the planetary capital as well.

Sure, other planets might think of Lucians that way, but when a stereotype exists, it's almost always an exaggeration of a notable minority and seldom a realistic interpretation of the whole (particularly when on a planetary scale).

You as the author should be looking at it from an objective view where the planet as a whole is host to an entire range of temperaments. As, indeed, a Magos - having both probably had emotional suppression, and being quite used to being involved in projects that could take centuries - is unlikely to have an impetuous nature.

If anyone's going to be arguing for this to go quickly, it would be the Inquisitor, not the Magos.

Quote from: Ynek on August 19, 2011, 09:17:49 PMIn the Rogue Trader (RPG) rulebook, it states that ships can take anywhere from decades to centuries to build. (first paragraph of 'anatomy of a starship', page 189.)

Which contrasts with page 274, where it's phrased as "many years (often decades)".

But it's fair to say it's a lengthy process. The kind of timescale where, from the character's perspective, it's always still being built.

I have a couple of sketches in the works and a question; what would the real length of the frigate and freighter be? (I was thinking 2 miles and 0.5 miles respectively, but I don't know the actual length of BFG ships)

Transports are likely to be bigger than the smaller warships. They need the space for cargo, warships haven't got to fit cargo bays. As for numbers, these numbers should be about right.

Transports: 2-3 km long. 1500-2000 crew.
Raider: 1.5 km long. 1500-2500 crew.
Frigate: 1.5-2 km long. 2500-3000 crew.
Light Cruiser: 4-4.5 km long. 5000-6000 crew.
Cruiser: 5km long. 9000-10000 crew.
Grand Cruiser: 6km long. 12000-15000 crew.
Battleships: 7.5 km long. 18000-25000 crew.

And before anyone corrects me on the crew numbers, I go by Andy Chambers' guidelines - the numbers from the RT RPG book have evidently suffered from size creep (in much the same way as some sources think that Titans should be hundreds of metres tall).

Thanks a lot, do you have any ideas for these ship's names (class/possible given name (i.e. uss Enterprise))

Double post ;D , but I now have the paint sketches ready.
(http://i1119.photobucket.com/albums/k623/Ralai225/octaviansstarships.jpg)

Thanks for the stats. Marco, they'll help me a lot with refining the mental image I have of Erasmus' ship 'The Oath'.

Also, @ Ocatavian; Ship's names in the Imperium tend to simply take the form of a suitably... Baroque, I think is the correct adjective, name (often some Imperial saint or hero, or else some appropriately over-blown moniker), sometimes preceded by the ship's class.

For example, the Gothic War-set novel 'Execution Hour' features such ships as the 'Lord Solar Macharius', the 'Inviolable Retribution' and the 'Divine Right'.

Sometimes the book will preface the ship's name with 'His Divine Majesty's Ship' the whatever, but I don't know if this is standard practice throughout the Imperial navy, or whether it's just something the author pulled out of whatever orifice he felt fit.

Don't forget, if you can't think of anything then the internet has many English-to-Latin translators; cod-latin is your friend.

Quote from: Inquisitor Octavian Lars on August 20, 2011, 06:38:27 PM
Thanks a lot, do you have any ideas for these ship's names (class/possible given name (i.e. uss Enterprise))

The easiest place tofind ship names and capabilities is the GW specialist games site just look up the rules for battlefleet gothic. The rule book has sample ship names for each class of ship that fought in the gothic war against abaddon

The four example ships in the Into the Storm book are:
Eternal Praetorian, a Lathe-class Monitor (Light) Cruiser; Measured Response, a Cobra-class naval Destroyer; Bounty of Scintilla, a Loki-class Q-Ship (a transport); and Sovereign Venture, a Tyrant-class Naval Cruiser.

As far as a given name, it's fairly rare for a ship to have a single word name like is common in the British navy (e.g. Victory, Belfast, Cornwall, Leander), although not completely unknown. If you want a ship to sound really fancy, then a two part High Gothic name (like is standard for Titans: e.g. Dies Irae) can do the trick.

Of course, if you're weird like me, you name it in Welsh; Ynys Mon is far less interesting in English: "Anglesea".

For a class name, a possible option for a Frigate would be something "swordy", because there's of course Sword class, Rapier class, etc. Some name for a blade that hasn't been used yet could be good - although not "Katana", please, we don't need any more Nippophiles.

~~~~~

One example that came up recently would be The Compulsion of Fate, the Solemne Vanguard-class Escort that's the ship in Stormgrad's RT campaign.
In that case, Solemne is the forge world the design originates from and Vanguard is the class name.

Thanks, I have named several imperial ships for AQ recently, so I am no stranger. Also, I only used Enterprise as an example.

If I remember rightly, Imperial Cruiser classes are always named after the world, moon, system or segmentum where they were invented/discovered.

For instance, the Lunar Class, the Mars Class, the Armageddon Class, the Nemesis Class, the Gothic Class, etc. Of course, there are exceptions, such as the Overlord class, the Dictator class, and virtually all of the ships that eventually fell into the traitor legion's hands. But the majority of cruiser types I've seen rules for in BFG have been named after planets or systems.

As for individual ships, the BFG rulebook says that the ship will be named in accordance of where the ship originally came from. If the ship was a recovered and restored hulk, it will normally be renamed by the individual who rediscovered it (usually the captain of the ship that finds it.) One example given in the BFG rulebook is the 'divine right', as the captain who found it believed he was led to the hulk by visions from the Emperor.

Planetary governors often pay part of their tithes with ships built on/in orbit around their world. Normally, they take this opportunity to immortalise themselves by naming ships after themselves. The Lord Daros is one example.

Ships built by the Imperial Navy in Imperial dockyards are often given hereditary titles which formerly belonged to ships which have been lost.

That's what the BFG rulebook has to say on the subject of ship's nomenclature.

So, Octavian's frigate now has a name thanks to your comment!
The Lord Octavian Lars, a Rapier class frigate
And I'm still working on the freighter

Just in the spirit of sharing Inquisitorial ships, I thought I'd take this opportunity to share mine. ^_^

Presenting Inquisitor Thaddeus's (heavily modified and barely recognisable) cobra class destroyer.

(http://img707.imageshack.us/img707/245/69239308.jpg)

The cobra was a hulk recovered by the Umpalotte Rogue Trader fleet in the beginning of M40 near the Omega World. (A highly dangerous anomaly in the Levitus subsector which has been an object of fascination for Inquisitors for generations, most notably the Ordo Obscurus.) The wreck was dragged back to Ferrum, the principal forgeworld of the Levitus subsector, where it was repaired at great financial cost to the Umpalotte dynasty.

The Omega World is an object which is extremely feared by spacefarers. Simply being in ownership of such a ship was a status symbol marking the bearer as someone exceptionally daring and perhaps even reckless. The Umpalotte family saw the ship as a great trophy to prove their mettle. As such, when the ship was declared 'finished', it was renamed "Tropaea".

The Tropaea had been substantially modified during the repairs. The torpedo tubes were removed to make more space for cargo, (apparently a very popular modification made by rogue traders, since torpedoes are extremely expensive to replace, and take up so much room on board,) and the cargo hold itself was more than doubled in size.

As the ship was viewed as a prized trophy, it actually saw very little combat, and was mostly used for transporting cargo. However, when the Umpalotte dynasty successfully defeated the flagship of the pirate prince Malignis, the engines of the pirate ship were taken as a trophy and were, again at great expense, fitted onto the Tropaea, making it much faster, but much less agile compared with other ships of it's class.

Over the following centuries, many more 'trophies of victory' were added to the Tropaea, making it a veritable trophy museum in space. A lance turret from the pirate ship 'Thor', a series of dark Age of Technology shield projectors and an ancient starship bridge recovered from a space hulk have all found their way into the Tropaea's increasingly prestigious hull.

The ship was largely used by the opulent Umpalotte dynasty to show off to dignitaries and ambassadors. Planetary governors were brought on board to dine, walking through the gilded corridors and viewing the spoils of war and trophies of the rogue trader's adventures. It was a symbol of the Umpalotte dynasty's success, and a testament to their strength.

When the Umpalotte dynasty began to crumble, the Tropaea Victoriae (as it was THEN called) was naturally the last ship they would ever dare to part with. It was the ship which bore the hard-earned trophies of the generations that preceeded them. It was simply too precious to let slip. When the last member of the dynasty lay on his death bed, he had the ship moored over the dead suns of Gellar's World, a place which he had long invisioned having a romantic, poetic death.

However, destitute, he failed to pay his mooring fees, and the ship was taken as payment by the Imperial authorities. It was unsuitable for front-line combat, due to the extent of the modifications that the Rogue Traders had performed. Whilst the ship was certainly stronger than the average Cobra Class, it was also far harder and more expensive to repair. Most of the technology on board was thousands (in some cases tens of thousands) of years old, which would be a nightmare to repair if anything went wrong.

Many groups which had heard of the ship (and it's reputation) offered large sums of money for it, and one of these groups was a recently promoted Inquisitor named Thaddeus. Thaddeus, by hook or by crook, won the auction and took the ship as his own. Due to his extraordinary relationship with the Levitus Subsector Adeptus Mechanicus, he and his tech priestess, Victoria Murae, were able to negotiate for a modest crew to be supplied by the forge world of Ferrum.

In the centuries that have followed, Thaddeus has noted that the ship is an extraordinary marvel. The ancient technologies contained within her venerable hull have certainly made for a superior vessel, although his navigator, Pontius Yukon (an antisocial individual often known as "Pontius the pilot" behind his back,) has commented that flying the ship is trickier than normal to fly.

(I haven't really played much Rogue Trader to be able to write a set of statistics for this vessel, but I do have stats for it in BFG.... But The Conclave probably isn't the place to start throwing out BFG rules. XD)

If we're sharing ships, then I've just managed to find an old I did sketch of Inquisitor Goldeneye's vessel.



Unfortunately I am unfamiliar with both Rogue Trader and Battle Fleet Gothic, so I have no 'game stats.' for it, just suff I've made up off the top of my head.



Anyway, here's an artist's (pffft...) impression of the ship in question:-




(http://i1178.photobucket.com/albums/x378/Doc_Vermin/Ship.jpg)





And here's the profile I just whipped up to go with the vessel's history:-




Ship Name: The Oath.

Class: Pre-heresy transport/ Unknown.

Length: 1.8 miles.

Crew: Aprox. 800, plus servitors.

Armaments: Standard port & starboard gun batteries. One each port & starboard lance battery. One concealed, xenotech-enhanced prow lance battery (Crossref. 'Jokearo').

Drive: Standard warp drive. Subluminal drive with unsanctioned enhancements. Untested xenotech device; possibly non-warp superluminal drive (Crossref. 'Necron', 'Inertialess Drive').

Armour/ Shields: Reinforced armour plating & additional void shields have been installed at the cost of some storage space. Modified xenotech stealth device (Crossref. 'Eldar', 'Holofield').

History: Discovered as a drifting hulk by Erasmus Goldeneye a few decades after beginning his carer as an Inquisitor proper, the ancient vessel which was to become known as 'The Oath' most likely started its existence as a troop-transport for the Imperium in the days before the Horus Heresy.

Originally the ship would have had facilities and space to house, feed and drill a full six to eight platoons of guardsmen, plus hanger-bays for accompanying armour support and orbit-to-surface landing craft. Most of the interior ship, in fact, consisted of huge, empty rooms. Goldeneye saw the potential in it immediately, and had her refitted to suit his own ends.

At first the ship, which had been a mutant-infested hulk for countless centuries, was temperamental, and prone to all manner of glitches and minor malfunctions. Temperamentalness is a far from desirable trait in an interstellar craft, and Goldeneye was moved to name it after an ancient proverb he distantly remembered;* "He is mad who puts his trust in the tameness of a wolf, the health of a horse, the love of a boy or the oath of a whore." Obviously 'The Tame Wolf' and 'The Healthy Horse' are not particularly inspiring names for a ship, and as for 'The Boy's Love', well... there are some preconceptions about naval life which just don't require that kind of encouragement. 'The Whore's Oath' however has an almost piratical ring to it and, although it is usually abbreviated to 'The Oath', it is quite common for bellow-deck crew to refer to her by her full name.

Over time the Inquisitor has acquired some interesting toys to install on his ship; the void shields salvaged from a hulked Grand Cruiser, an enhanced lance battery which slides from beneath the prow armour like a concealed blade, and some decidedly non-standard additions to the subluminal plasma-drive.

Two modifications, however, stand out from all the others. One is the holofield array, salvaged from the wreck of an Eldar vessel, and installed on his own craft using his close ally Magos Blitzkreig's contacts among xenophilic circles in the machine cult. This modified array does not merely scramble the augurs and auspice readings of other vessels, but can actually allow the ship to mimic the energy readings of other Imperial ships; essentially disguising itself as a completely different vessel, or even a drifting space-hulk.

The other piece of xenotech is far more sinister; a huge Necrontir machine, which squats, vast and menacing amongst the ships other systems. Neither the Inquisitor nor Magos Blitzkreig is entirely sure what it is, nor what it will do if activated.

Between them they have surmised that it may be one of the Necron's fabled 'Inertialess Drives', which enable them to travel at superluminal speeds without using warp-space, but, as of yet, they have not been able to determine this for certain, and neither of them are about to turn it on just to see. It is, however, wired into the ship's systems in such a way that, in a do-or-die emergency, the device can be powered at short notice (not quite literally 'at the push of a button', but something reasonably close).

Obviously, with all the xenotech and unsanctioned (some would say techno-heretical) modifications, Goldeneye has to be very careful who he lets on board. To this end as much of the running of the ship as possible is maintained by servitors and automated systems, meaning that a ship designed to potentially house thousands has a crew of merely 800 or so. Even with all the extra machinery stuffed into the hull this still leaves a lot of room for the Inquisitor to play with...




* Actually a slight modification of a Shakespearian quote from 'King Lear'.

Quote from: Inquisitor Goldeneye on September 13, 2011, 10:25:25 PM
'The Oath' most likely started its existence as a troop-transport for the Imperium in the days before the Horus Heresy.
[...] a full six to eight platoons of guardsmen, plus hanger-bays for accompanying armour support and orbit-to-surface landing craft.

That's a very very small troop transport, especially by Imperial standards. Sounds and looks more like some sort of small exploration or escort craft.

QuoteNeither the Inquisitor nor Magos Blitzkreig is entirely sure what it is, nor what it will do if activated.

If they're that unsure then you'd think they'd most definitely not install it on the ship, no matter the potential gains, you don't want a potentially volatile giant brick onboard.

Quote from: Heroka Vendile on September 17, 2011, 01:04:23 PM
That's a very very small troop transport, especially by Imperial standards. Sounds and looks more like some sort of small exploration or escort craft.

I agree with Heroka on that one. Imperial troop transports are classified as heavy transports in Battlefleet Gothic. (Heavy transports are classed as light cruisers, rather than standard transports which are listed as escorts. They're capable of carrying multiple full regiments, complete with support vehicles.) An exploration craft is likely to be closer to the size you mention.

On the flipside of the coin, it's very true that things were done differently during the pre-heresy era. You could argue that this small troop-ship is merely symbolic of the largely defensive role that the Imperial Guard (then Imperal Army) played in the Imperium as a whole.

Planetary invasions etc. were largely Space Marine operations. My knowledge of pre-heresy Imperial doctrine is limited, but if I recall correctly, the Imperial Army was mostly defensive.

Defensive armies tend to stay close to what they're defending, and don't need to move around much. Therefore, large-scale troop carriers might not have been necessary at this time. Thus, you might have found that smaller ships, such as "the Oath" were more common.

Alternatively, you might reason that the ship is a faster, but lighter troop transport than the Imperium would normally use. The ship carries small numbers of troops, but at very high speed - ideal for opportunistic surgical strikes (or an Inquisitor in a hurry). You could reason that the ship fell into Goldeneye's hands after a change of leadership in the local Navy. The ship didn't fit with new tactics or doctrines, and so was sold off to generate income, much like how the real world army sells off obsolete or surplus gear.

Alternatively, there's the old: "An STC template was discovered. They built a few of what was on it, found they weren't that great compared to the current carriers, so stopped building them. This is one of the few that was built."


EDIT:
Thought I might as well share this with you all, since it appears to be almost relvant....

(http://img190.imageshack.us/img190/3729/sship.jpg)

CGI model of Thaddeus's ship... Made in Blender 3D.

It sounds to me a bit like a Dropship of somekind - perhaps a specialist one, for long range insertion, boarding actions, and other special forces stuff, behind the line of the Astartes advance.

Thanks for the feedback, fellas.

As regards the size/ number of troops it should be able to house; I did do a little research to look up what might be a reasonable amount, but I seem to have got the numbers mixed up. Can anyone suggest a better figure?

On ther other hand, I quite like Dapper's idea about it being a Dropship, with atmospheric flight and planetary landing capabilities...

As for the Necron 'Black Box', Goldeneye wants it close on hand to study (Necrons being somthing of an obssesion for him). It isn't actually connected to the ship's power systems, but it could be powered up on short notice in a 'We've tried everything else, and we're going to be destroyed anyway if this doesn't work so we might as well give it a shot' type situations.

Quote from: Inquisitor Goldeneye on September 13, 2011, 10:25:25 PM

Length: 1.8 miles.

Crew: Aprox. 800, plus servitors.

Apologies. When I origianlly read this, I thought it said 1.8 KILOMETRES, rather than miles.

But a ship of 1.8 miles would be approximately 2.9 kilometres.... Which is quite a large vessel, by Imperial standards, as shown below:

(http://img339.imageshack.us/img339/7048/sshipcomparedtootherimp.jpg)

At 1.8 miles/2.9 kilometres, Goldeneye's ship would actually be closer to a light cruiser than a frigate or dropship. It already dwarfs the Imperial Dauntless Class....

For a ship of this size, we're talking a crew of at least a few thousand, depending on just how much extra manpower is needed to handle all the delicate and venerable systems of a ship of this age and complexity. The ship itself is unique, so it could have any number of crew, but I would probably say at least a couple of thousand.

As for how many troops it should be able to carry, a large Imperial transport such as a troop carrier (which is actually marginally smaller than a Dauntless) can carry several full regiments (never mind platoons) of men, complete with support staff, medicae, tanks, walkers, superheavies and ordnance. Basically everything that an invasion force could need or want could be carried by a mere handful of Imperial troop transports.)

That is, of course, assuming that Goldeneye's ship is a troop transport. It could just as easily be a cargo vessel...

Ah... I see.

Yes, there may have been an element of the old Imperial/ Metric confusion going on here, and of course, my ignorance of 40K ships (beyond a few broad generalisations) didn't help.

Thanks for the feedback, it seems I need to go away and have a serious rethink of The Oath's dimensions.

I think that having a ship is not beyond the means of the Inquisition, especially if it is within reach of a Rogue Trader. You may, however, find issues with getting anything bigger than a Frigate unless it has a long history with the Inquisition anyways. And you won't be getting something bigger than a Light Cruiser- Anything else is way too big and obvious. All in all though, I could see a lot of Inquisitors running around with their own Frigate. Or Transport, if they were wanting to be more subtle.

I think the presence of a ship would put more character into an Inquisitor's story. Where did it come from? How did it get refit like it did? Did the Inquisitor seize it himself, or was it passed on by his mentor?

Remember that a ship is unlikely to directly interfere with scenarios, aside from the owner being able to call down a Valkyrie for Evac. Yeah, he could just have a Valk hovering behind him, blowing up everything he points at, but Isn't that a problem for pretty much every guy that has one modeled? Its all about what the GM allows. In short- Think about how it will add to the story.

Quote from: Akuro Adenn on June 12, 2012, 01:03:31 AM
I think that having a ship is not beyond the means of the Inquisition, especially if it is within reach of a Rogue Trader. You may, however, find issues with getting anything bigger than a Frigate unless it has a long history with the Inquisition anyways. And you won't be getting something bigger than a Light Cruiser- Anything else is way too big and obvious.

I've found a way to justify a Dictator before, but that was strictly a one-off and not something I'm likely to repeat (the short version is that it was decommissioned, then repurposed as a black-ops vessel, and is owned by an extremely stubborn old lady who thinks a multilaser is a perfectly reasonable personal defence weapon*). I'm generally not keen on Inquisitors having giant ships as a general rule, largely because they'd be misusing their authority if they just hoiked an active warship out of its parent fleet and expected the rest of the fleet to get on with it.

QuoteAll in all though, I could see a lot of Inquisitors running around with their own Frigate. Or Transport, if they were wanting to be more subtle.

I generally limit it to frigates or Q-ships, or the odd raider if I feel contrary. A couple of my characters don't even have their own ships, though, but that's either because I've not yet designed ships for them, or (in Haines' case) because he restricts his activities to one subsector and tends to hitch a ride to and from the subsector capital on other people's ships.


*The Inquisitor in question used to be extremely active considering she's well into her third century, but is now confined to a tank-chair (http://elitechoice.org/wp-content/uploads/2008/01/tank_chair.jpg) and needs a giant gun in order to remain as active as before. It helps that she can disguise it as part of her life-support system, and it helps even more that she doesn't actually need the life-support in the first place.

Most of the inquisitorial personel we have in our games lack their own ships, mostly because they have little need for the massive number of people one needs to crew them, that means more chances of treason, it is hard to fully control a spaceship. Also, most planets are regularly visited by traders, and entering a planet undercover is much easier when one arrives as a simple traveller rather than with an entire spaceship arriving nearly without cargo for the planet and staying longer than would be expected.

@Koval- I agree that they shouldn't have free access to huge ships, with the definite hard limit being at the light cruisers, which should be a rarity. That said, it is not beyond the reach of an affluent or ambitious Inquisitor. But then again, we're talking about the possibility here. I'm not saying every Inquisitor gets handed a ship when they get their badge. I'm saying that one way or another, they have the ability to claim a ship as fitting. Should they do so, its up to them to make it work right.

@Dolnikan- That massive number may be unneeded in the context of the retinue, but all the same, it is convenient because of the likely-hood of at least a few retinue potentials being housed within. And to its governing, that is what a hierarchy of officers is for. You keep the top ones in line, and they keep their underlings in line, and so on ad infinum. As for how they keep their activities low key, that one is up to them (And a great opportunity for more Story). A puppet Rogue Trader or would be Naval scout is likely to be the excuse that they'd use.

The problem is that there are many crewmembers, making it relatively easy to sneak in agents who can strike when the time is right. It also makes tracing the inquisitor a lot easier, a ship is a lot harder to lose than a small group of people.

Of course inquisitors can get anything they like, but they often want to avoid doing what entering a system with a warship will certainly do, alert everybody to their presence.

The problem with a ship is that once certain enemies know about it they will see it as a target.

Ive got several characters across gw games,

My rogue trader has his own cargo ship has a very small living crew, and a lot of servitors, less cost too maintain no food or washing bill ;), it is a modified cargo ship with a guest deck for various passengers, it has been used by an inquisitor posing as a down on his luck noble,

One inquisitor I used for a large 40k campaign was the overall leader of the imperium faction player's he had access to a full fleet of 73 ships at his disposal, but this was an amalgamation of 4 fleets, and it was purely due too campaign circumstances, no marine ships under his direct authority and only 1 battleship, the ships were also assigned too smaller fleets for logistical ploys and such, also this was a 40k campaign

As for other inquisitors i use for other games i have 5, 1 with his own arvus lighter, 1 with a small system ship and the other 3 have too pay taxi fares

Quote from: Knobby2 on June 12, 2012, 04:38:02 PM
a lot of servitors, less cost too maintain no food or washing bill ;)

I for one like my servitors all clean and sparkly!

New! Servo-Shine! Your servitors looking dull and glum? Then you need Servo-Shine! Blam and the dirt is gone for a more holy clean!

Order now, call 0800-666-EYHBTIAL!!!!!


Topic,,, what topic....

ill call later for a bulk order discount on my servitors, but yes topic

i think inquisitor's can have ships but people need too be real with it last time i checked battle fleet aggripna wasnt a fan of sticking learner plates on its emperor class battleship for a novice inquisitor, and most sane imperial navy captains, will be reluctant too lend anything bigger than a lighter too an untried inquisitor. where by yes and inquisitor lord has absolute authority he will second a fleet but it will still have captains and such, and as soon as the mission/campaign/war is over the fleet will fall back out of his control

The problem with servitors is that they also need to be maintained and lots of tasks cannot be performed by them. Then there will be the many tech-priests and various other staff. Something as large as a ship can also easily be home to small bands of people who remain undetected for a long time.

I agree, I read one of the gw novels (title eludes me for now) the captain vanished presumed dead as elements of his crew werent happy with the way he was running his ship (he ran it the right way not the drug runner way) and he ended up finding a hidden population who helped him back too his rightful seat,

The rt does also a chief engineer with a few apprentices on his crew manifest

many of the servitors are slave minds cargo, reloading, waiter and comms are the more common ones on the ship, as for waiter imagine a servitor serving you soup with the cliched french pencil moustache

Off the top of my head, I think only one of my Inquisitors has his own ship. The rest requisition them as and when they need one, whether that be a Navy vessel or an Inquisitorial asset (perhaps belonging to a Conclave, cell or cabal of which the Inquisitor is a member). Or they hitch a lift with a Chartist or Rogue Trader ship that is going their way.

For example, when Kaled wished to get to Dalthus for the recent conclave he used several ships - it was something like he rerouted a Destroyer to transfer him to a chartist vessel, which later rendezvoused with a Rogue Traders's ship.

My Rogue Trader and Explorator on the other hand both have small fleets at their disposal with a mix of types of ship...

Now, I'm not saying any of these things are invalid- Indeed, they are factors that need to be taken into account. I just feel that the heart of this topic is the ability to have them, and what limitations they have. What you guys have touched on is the consequences, or lack thereof. How each character deals with these helps define his personality and behavior.

My first Inquisitor and her retinue will have a ship of their own, a heavily modified Light Cruiser that's been in service to her sector's conclave for a millennium. There's a lot more to it, but it's not that important.

Akuro there youve given a reasonable explanation which has a lot of plot hooks and you can elaborate on it, also a light cruiser isnt beyond the means for a full conclave too have between them

its just where you see inquisitors having battleships theyve paid for, doesnt make sense and even too the most successful inquisitor it would be near impossible too crew, run, supply and make sure you have the funds constantly for it

Knobby, that book would be Relentless, which was actually pretty cool.

Quote from: Akuro Adenn on June 12, 2012, 04:12:53 PM
@Koval- I agree that they shouldn't have free access to huge ships, with the definite hard limit being at the light cruisers, which should be a rarity. That said, it is not beyond the reach of an affluent or ambitious Inquisitor. But then again, we're talking about the possibility here.

Purely to rock the boat, Ambition-class cruisers are largely built for private individuals (although I imagine the waiting list is horrendous, not to mention that the time it takes to build one can probably be counted in decades). While it's in the context of Rogue Traders, it's by no means impossible that an Inquisitor has the wherewithal to get one. That I generally stop at frigates (with the earlier exception notwithstanding) should be no real hindrance to other people bringing bigger things to the table provided they can be justified well.

QuoteI'm not saying every Inquisitor gets handed a ship when they get their badge. I'm saying that one way or another, they have the ability to claim a ship as fitting. Should they do so, its up to them to make it work right.

Possible example of what you mean, though do tell me if I've misinterpreted you:
Lady Eliesa Schwertwald, Ordo Xenos (aforementioned tank-chair Inquisitor), has her Dictator. It's been decommissioned at least once, and is still technically in the service of her local Conclave despite her having owned it for seventy years.
However, she also maintains extremely good ties with the Imperial Guard (those regiments active in her immediate region of space, at least) and the local battlefleet in her sector, and has earned the respect of at least one Deathwatch kill-team.
She's also pushing 300, and has held her rosette for about three quarters of that time, so she's old enough to have taken part in the Damocles Crusade (and she did, as an Interrogator; I've changed that from Nimbosa, as nobody seems able to make their mind up on when that was). She hasn't exactly been idle in the centuries since then; she's been sufficiently active to have formed those good ties the hard way.
And unlike a lot of Inquisitors that are also nearing their fourth century, she's neither crazy, nor courting Radicalism (I think she's a moderate Amalathian but I don't remember. Moderate something-Puritanical, anyway). She just prefers kicking multilasering alien backsides instead.
She's also fond of knitting.

All things considered, Schwertwald's probably earned that Dictator... :P

Quote from: Knobby2 on June 12, 2012, 07:17:03 PM
its just where you see inquisitors having battleships theyve paid for, doesnt make sense and even too the most successful inquisitor it would be near impossible too crew, run, supply and make sure you have the funds constantly for it

Indeed, logistics is something a lot of people expect to just happen without sparing a second thought as to how. A Cobra, for example, needs a crew of 15,000 (per Into The Storm) to run effectively -- that's the same as the population of Ely. This goes up to somewhere around 25-30,000 for your average frigate, to 60-70,000 for most light cruiser designs, to just shy of 100,000 for most cruisers (the equivalent of putting Worcester in space). What with grand cruiser crews being like sticking Exeter or Ipswich in orbit at between 100,000 and 140,000, you can probably imagine that running a battleship is like having Luton or York drifting around in the cosmos, just as a rough guess. Truly scary, and truly impractical.

Ahh, i shall go and find that book now :D

I did read in this thread earlier that someone modified his torpedo tubes because of the cost, this is one of the better examples of logistics I have seen, Many of the problems i see are that a fair few inquisitors work covertly or on fringe worlds and nothing states guess who's here than an imperial cruiser, fringe worlds would also be very ill equipped too deal with anything bigger than  light cruiser assuming they were inline with current imperial tech (I use that last statement very loosely)

And personally I'd like too see ipswich in space ;)

To be fair, it is far from the only ship the conclave has. It is, however, the only Light Cruiser not named to an established Inquisitor Lord. This is because of some of her job description, as well as the fact that the conclave has more resources than most. She's also far from a greenhorn, with about 50 years of hard experience as a full Inquisitor. Before the conclave got to it, it was a derelict among many that were refitted with the Inquisition in mind.

@Koval- You indeed did capture what I meant. She got it through hard work, and has kept it through that. How she's kept the upkeep going can be explained by her conclave technically owning it (which is the same deal with the above example from me). And someone may want to do some actual space/population comparisons for the ships, but those numbers seem pretty spot on to me.

I think another thing that most people seem to be overlooking is that a precious, precious few are even going to have something that can peek into space, and most are going to be under the control of the planet's government. If that's been infiltrated, corrupted, or even turned rebellious, the Inquisitor is going to be needing backup either way about it. Seeing as they'd be using various landers rather than trying to drydock the ship on the surface, it'd be tucked out of the way in most scenarios. Someone actually having a clue about an Inquisitor because of their ship should either be a fellow Inquisitor similarly equipped, or a massive plot hook for a campaign.

Personally I'm of the opinion that the Inquisition - and by that I mean Ordos, Conclaves, cells, cabals etc should own ships - rather than Inquisitors (although there are always going to be exceptions). But there's certainly going to be a lot more Inquisitors than there are Inquisitorial ships. As someone mentioned above, sometimes a ship owned by the Inquisition will be on 'permanent loan' to a particular Inquisitor, but that Inquisitor better remember whose ship it really is, because other Inquisitors will - and there will always be those who see misusing Inquisitorial resources as a step on the road to heresy.

As for the class of an Inquisitor's ship - the only real criteria is that it should be appropriate for what they want it for. An Inquisitor who just needs a way to move between systems didn't ought to have a warship if a transport would do. But if they need to prosecute a Rogue Trader who has a cruiser then they may need to requisition their own cruiser. I also think it's wrong that people say it's easier to justify their Inquisitor having a Destroyer, Frigate or Light Cruiser - these ships all have their role in a fleet and for Inquisitors to keep requisitioning them just weakens the Navy and compromises the defence of the Imperium. Just because the ships are smaller doesn't make them less important and it shouldn't make it easier to justify an Inquisitor having one.

Quote from: Kaled on June 12, 2012, 08:54:38 PM
I also think it's wrong that people say it's easier to justify their Inquisitor having a Destroyer, Frigate or Light Cruiser - these ships all have their role in a fleet and for Inquisitors to keep requisitioning them just weakens the Navy and compromises the defence of the Imperium. Just because the ships are smaller doesn't make them less important and it shouldn't make it easier to justify an Inquisitor having one.

There is, however, the scenario in which the ship was either decommissioned (in which case the Navy isn't going to care as much as if it were an active vessel), or "recovered" from either the enemy or a space hulk. I have a couple of characters for whose ships "taken from someone else" is in full effect. Having said that, one of these characters* generally holds to your line about requisitioning Navy vessels, and takes a very dim view of those that do so.


*Macauley; being as she's an Istvaanian, she's going to take the "compromises the defence of the Imperium" bit especially seriously (the destruction of the Ferox Est notwithstanding, mind).

Quote from: Koval on June 12, 2012, 10:08:51 PM
There is, however, the scenario in which the ship was either decommissioned (in which case the Navy isn't going to care as much as if it were an active vessel), or "recovered" from either the enemy or a space hulk.

The Navy might not care so much, but recommissioning, refitting and recruiting a new crew for a ship isn't exactly cheap, and while an Inquisitor may technically have the authority to order it done, it seems more likely that it would be more politically expedient for them to persuade the Conclave or Ordo to request it on their behalf and then loan the ship to the Inquisitor for the time that they need it. It seems to me that Inquisitors are always going to scrutinise how their peers exercise their authority and requisitioning a warship without a good enough reason is likely to be seen as a misuse of that authority.

To be honest, over the years I've read of lots of Inquisitors on the forums who have their own warship as well the corresponding 'justifications', but it's extremely rare that I've found it convincing. Just because someone has been an Inquisitor for a long time doesn't seem like a good reason. Neither does them having close ties with the Navy or leading some crusade - in that case it seems more likely they would use a ship as a base of operation, but it hardly seems a good reason that they have to have their own ship. I've not really kept track, but I get the impression that a far higher proportion of Inqusitor PCs have ships than Inquisitors in GW fluff. In almost every case I feel it would make more sense for the Inquisitor to acquire a ship when they need one rather than permanently have their own. It makes more sense that the Inquisitor has their own ship if they are working in an area that does not have good transport links such as the fringes of Imperial space. It makes little sense to me that they need their own ship when they're in a crusade that already has a whole fleet of ships. And just as sometimes and Inquisitor will wear power armour and carry a boltgun, but in other situations they'll carry a stubber an wear inconspicuous civilian clothes, so too will an Inquisitor sometimes need a battleship but other times they'll need a light transport. Since it's pretty inconcievable that they'll have a range of ships in their collection, it makes more sense for most Inquisitors to borrow whichever ship is most appropriate for the current situation - and I imagine that the Ordos will have just such a range of ships for use by their members.

I've already listed some of my character's ships way back on page 1, but to go over their ownership:

Marco's ship, the Ynys Mon, is largely one he's got Arden Holf in an arm-lock, offering amnesty for a very long list of crimes (which include some of the modifications to the Ynys, which has been somewhat rewritten since my first post) while he and his ship serve the Inquisitor. Arden doesn't hugely mind - a large pay-cheque and more than enough excitement for an ageing man.

Lyra's is a ship that was gutted by combat and recovered by her mentor - and while it's now basically hers now he's retired to a position as the semi-official head of the Ordo Perditus in the Carthax sector, it's understood that "ownership" is somewhat conditional.

So yeah, I've sort of headed down the route of "borrowed" rather than owned.

~~~~~

On a note of servitor crews, it is largely assumed that the crew of these ships is sort of a mix - as with anything really.

However, by the time of (the much delayed) "Ad Vitam Aeternam" story in the 44th Millennium, the Ynys' crew has only about 200 humans remaining, with all tasks that can be given to servitors done so. By that time, Jax is in a lot of people's bad books, and thus as few people as necessary are trusted to be on ship. (With a very, very brutal terminate on sight policy for anyone or anything unrecognised.)
I could certainly imagine sufficiently paranoid Inquisitors doing the same, although it does mean limiting the ship somewhat.

In the end, it doesn't matter too terribly much. Its a part of the inquisitor's backstory, something that is arguably irrelevant to most people- they'll be allowed what they're allowed, and as it isn't likely to have much a difference, people can choose to ignore it if they have that big a problem over it. Just like any section of somone's fluff, in the end its their call. If you don't like it, then fine. Pack up and move on, instead of trying to bend someone to your ideals.

Quote from: MarcoSkoll on June 13, 2012, 01:03:11 AM
On a note of servitor crews, it is largely assumed that the crew of these ships is sort of a mix - as with anything really.

Another thing to note is that as a servitor is partially organic it is still going to require some amount of sustenance, and while it may not need as much food or care so much about what food it gets, a ship crewed mostly by servitors is still going to need a food supply. It's also going to be more dependant on the AdMech than most ships.

Quote from: Akuro Adenn on June 13, 2012, 06:46:19 AM
Just like any section of somone's fluff, in the end its their call. If you don't like it, then fine. Pack up and move on, instead of trying to bend someone to your ideals.

To some extent I agree. But I do think people generally need to give a little more thought to their Inquisitor having a ship than they currently do. All too often people post on here and say that their character has his own cruiser or WS 90 or something else that seems excessive, and they say it's justified, but what they mean is that they've justified it to themselves, which is a whole different thing to convincing other people. Assuming they're not just posting their character on here to basically say 'look at my character, isn't he great', but are instead posting them to get feedback which will let them improve their stats and background (which I think is why most people post characters on here), then if someone sees something that they do not think works (either in terms of background or rules) they should question it. To 'pack up and move on' without commenting isn't particularly helpful in those cases. And given that Inquisitor is a narrative skirmish game, a characters background is important as it can shape the way the game turns out - it may be irrelevant in many games, but in some it could be hugely important. But at the end of the day if someone says 'I don't care what you think, I'm giving my character a cruiser / WS 90 / some other excessive thing' then there's no point flogging a dead horse and we should just let them get on with it.

Oh, and since no one else has said it - Akuro
Welcome to the Conclave

It's always good to see new members - why not head over to the community forum and introduce yourself.

Ah, the age-old problem of "Why can't my Inquisitor have a battleship?"

Generally, it comes down to the "Rocks are not free, citizen" effect - a full Imperial ship being seconded to an Inquisitor over any prolonged period is one that isn't being used to defend the Imperium, or transport soldiers, or move vital supplies (like food!) or whatever other task is going on. The Administratum generally doesn't plot these supply routes for frivolity's sake, so even one ship becoming an Inquisitor's personal toy could have grave consequences - not least of which would be drawing the attention of other Inquisitors, Inquisitors for whom weakening the infrastructure of the Imperium by taking a ship could be seen as a grave heresy...

Quote from: Akuro Adenn on June 13, 2012, 06:46:19 AM
people can choose to ignore it if they have that big a problem over it. Just like any section of somone's fluff, in the end its their call. If you don't like it, then fine. Pack up and move on, instead of trying to bend someone to your ideals.

So what's the point of posting a character's background here at all? After all, someone saying "Wow, that's flawless work, you're the best writer in the universe, go work for Black Library" is significantly less useful than someone giving reasoned, constructive criticism. If people doing the latter should "pack up and move on", then the former certainly should - the forum would get very tedious if all we saw was sycophantic fawning over how utterly plausible and brilliant everyone's work is.

Quote from: MarcoSkoll on June 13, 2012, 01:03:11 AM
On a note of servitor crews, it is largely assumed that the crew of these ships is sort of a mix - as with anything really.

Urgh, servitor crews, one of the things I absolutely detest, and I was very disappointed it showed up in Rogue Trader (Although they handled it better than Damn Abnett did).

Yes, most reasonable people would assume that a servitor crew wouldn't be total - after all, someone needs to maintain the damned things! the only vessels I can realistically see being made up of significant crews of servitors are dedicated Mechanicus vessels - teeming with techpriests, but using servitors for most menial tasks. I guess some of the very, very smallest craft could reasonably survive with a 80%+ servitor crew, but even then they'd need maintenance (the Imperium isn't known for building things that last - especially when they're not from very intact STCs) and they'd negate one of the advantages of small craft, their reaction time.

The bckground of a character is the most vital part, the stats and other rules are only there to translate that background to the game, not the other way around. Inquisitor is a narrative wargame which is about characters, meaning people with a history and a personality, not about bland, faceless soldiers sent to fight like in larger-scale wargames. To me, ignoring a character's background is immensely difficult, it is who are on the table.

Here on the board only one of my characters, inquisitor Semplice, has his own ship. It is a merchant ship, and not much more. He has taken it quite a while ago and now uses it because he is on the run from his peers.

In a given sector there are between 50 and 75 warships according to Battlefleet Gothic. This is a very small number of ships, if inquisitors take even a few of those in permanent use that is a large proportion of the strength of the sector fleet, and of the secotr defences. Especially if it concenrs one of the rare capital ships. But even a mere destroyer is a rare thing, and a few inquisitors taking one of those for their own use also significantly weakens the sector fleet.

Is there any background on the Navy decommissioning ships? I know I've seen it mentioned somewhere, but I forget where. Given the fairly small number of ships they have (compared to the amount of space they have to defend) and the amount of time it takes to build a ship, it seems unlikely there'd be many decommissioned ships for an Inquisitor to requisition. On top of that, the Inquisitor is going to have to compete with others who also want to recommission the ship - such as Naval reserves, Rogue Traders, Chartist captains and other Inquisitors/Inquisitorial groups.

The most I can remember is about decommisioned ships is that there was a little bit about old ships in an article about reserve fleets. But, ships will be in constant use for milennia, when they get heavily damaged they get refitted. Many capital ships have been in service for thousands of years, if not from the foundation of the Imperium. If one would get his or her hands on a decommisioned capital ship it would most likely not be one of the recent classes, an old Murder is much more likely. And even those are still in use b the naval reserves and some of the sector battlefleets.

Only when a ship has been utterly destroyed will it be removed from the roster, even a completely gutted ship can be used as the base for a new one. Building a ship is a time-consuming process, especially capital ships can take dozens of years, and more than that for the even bigger ones. There also is an immense cost involved, not only from the immense amount of metal that will be needed but also the skilled labour and the legions of tech-priests.

Decommissioned ships are stored in mothballed reserve fleets kept in a permanent state of readiness for war anchored at the mass star ports such as port maw or cypra mundi, but in times of war crews from destroyed vessels or hurridley recruited crews are assigned too them causing many spooks and such,

So if an inquisitor had a reserve fleet ship it would be rather old even by imperial standards, have a very inexperienced crew and be exceptionally hard too maintain without the proper facilities, reserve fleet ships have a higher proportion of accidents and spooks also happen due too this,

That sounds familiar Knobby - where's that from?

Oddly enough this conversation got me reading my bfg books, its from the armada expansion theres a few pages about bastion fleets, and the need for a large pool of reserve ships readily available

Battle fleet cadia and agrippna are the biggest fleets, with over 150 ships each but this is as they are bastion fleets guarding the biggest warp routes

Ah yes - I was flicking through the BFG files looking for info but hadn't got as far as the Armarda stuff. I bought the Battlefleet Koronus book for Rogue Trader but confess I haven't really read it - I have had a quick flick through and it looks like it has loads of useful information for Inquisitors with ships, Navy characters and the like.

Thanks for posting that, it greatly clarifies things. So basically warships don't get fully decommissioned, only put into the reserve, making that route hard as well.

the only ship i can 100% say is permanently decommissioned is the emperor class battleship named the lord solar macharius (dont quote me on the name)

it is anchored over the planet that macharius died upon and is his final resting place, it is the only ship too be decommissioned 100% that i know of and even then only because it was a warship named in his honor that was also his flag ship,

In very severe cases ships could be decommissioned but again ive only heard of it I dont know of any ships or information of it actually happening, I once read that a ship lost for over x amount of years can be classed as a decomm also a ship where repair costs out weigh it use will usually see it decomm and maybe in a very rare case a very wealthy person might be able too buy a frigate or destroyer , many ships outside of the merchant fleet (cargo ships) are hereditary, passed down with the great names of houses who can trace their ancestory back too the age of the crusades and fought at the emperors side, their ships are relics and were usually gifted too the family name for some great valorous deed, most cases they would be great victories in the emperors name, finding a rare STC or possibly saving a high ranking imperial lord from the crusade times

There's also a bit in the background of the Sabre (Rogue Trader core rulebook pg.211) which mentions how it was more or less bought from the breaker's yard. The Measured Response (Into The Storm pg.166) was also decommissioned after only two and a half centuries (and then bought privately).

There's a fair amount of fluff in Battlefleet Koronus about where ships come from, for what it's worth, so questions of ownership aside, the notion that a particular ship exists isn't all that difficult to justify.

---

On ownership: Seeing as Marco and Dolnikan have gone through which of their characters owns what, I'll do the same for those of mine that I still use.

Eliesa Schwertwald (mentioned above) has her Dictator, the Quietus, though she's fully aware that it's on permanent loan rather than actually belonging to her. It came from her sector's Conclave, and will no doubt return to the sector Conclave when she dies.

Ottakar Grant (last seen in an RP from two years ago) "acquired" his Cobra, the Dragonfly, after its previous owner -- Inquisitor Asgeir Yngvesson -- went rogue and made the mistake of attacking the above sector Conclave. I never expanded on where it came from originally, though considering that Yngvesson had something of a superiority complex, it's likely that it was originally a Navy vessel and that Yngvesson just didn't care about the Navy losing a ship.

Rosheine Macauley (from Lines Drawn and Vanity) also "acquired" her Cobra, His Resolve, after its previous owner met a grisly end. In this case, however, she was the aggressor, murdering another Inquisitor when he got too close to finding out who she was. She then went on a full-scale purge of the ship's crew, and sod the amount of time/money/other resources needed to do that because it helped her cover her tracks. She used to own a bigger ship (a Sword called the Eye of the Emperor, which was bought privately) up until an accident in the ship's generarium tore it out from under her, which probably makes her the only character I currently use for whom I've detailed two ships.

Madoc Haines (Defiant Echoes) hitched a ride with Marco's character Riley Hallona to get to where he needed to go, as he doesn't own a ship. Considering what happened to him on board the Asculum, I doubt he'll ever invest in one.

Gelert Hesh (background-character for the moment) owns a stealth/prison ship called the Camberai, which is privately owned and, as ships go, really small at just over 1.2km long. Hesh uses it to keep heretics/witches in cryo-storage or stasis. It's only very lightly armed, though, so he'll requisition Navy vessels when he needs something with actual firepower (and only for as long as he needs them, although he's fairly militant so this happens more frequently than the Navy finds comfortable)

Fabian Filipowski (background-character for the time being) does not have his own ship; although he has his designs on an impounded Sword called the Colline Gamma (formerly owned by yet another renegade), it's not likely to be unimpounded any time soon and will probably end up in the Carthaxian Conclave's possession when it does get released.

Other characters I've not mentioned are either non-Inquisition (Commodore Vargas) or antagonists (Zagan), so they have their own reasons for having ships.

Ive gotta buy that book,

Its a matter for your gaming group i think as too wether your inquisitor has a ship, if your main group leader is a rogue trader and he doesnt have a ship then its either a damn shame or youve forgotten something, but groups might see it as he has frigate x, so ill take light cruiser y, but then hes going too take grand cruiser z, and it eventually becomes a paper arms race if players fall into the trap

a good gm can carefully monitor this though

The sad thing is that unless they're renegade, there is absolutely no need for that arms race. It would be nothing more than a mindless circle jerk as to who has the bigger ship. If they want to do ship combat, they can play BFG, or use the Rogue Trader rules for it.

There might not be a need for it, but such arms races can come intgo being very quickly, mostly because people don't want their characters be less than those of another player. Such things can easily escalate to an immense degree. Back in the day when I still played 40k such a thing happened in our group, with everyone detailing the massive resources of their own commander, and everyone claiming to have greater resources/powers/etc than all the others. It even went as far as saying that the battles we fought were irrelevant because their leader would just do X when they lost and win anyway.

In our group we have one character who even owns multiple ships, but she has in the years that she has been in use grown to be a rogue trader of immense power, coming from a powerful dynasty and descending directly from a saint. she has stakes in many industries across the sector. But by all other players she also is considered to be the single most evil and amoral character we have going in our games. Her flagship is an ancient Grand Cruiser from the crusade era which is enormously overdecorated with golden ornaments, both on the inside and the outside. Added to that she also has a small fleet of smaller vessels, mostly transports, which are the base of her wealth. But this of course never really comes up in games, it is mostly part of her fairly extensive background, which also contains many relatives(such as her only surviving brother, a famous fashion designer).

This shows that is is not a big thread if a character is depicted as having enormous background power, for instance, a Lord Inquisitor will also be a tremendously powerful individual capable of calling on whole warfleets when the need is there. But, even an Inquisitor Lord will not take a large ship to serve as a base of operations for a long time, of course, he or she can set up camp on such a ship when the need is there, such as while hunting space-based heretics, but afterwards the ship will be left behind again.

The problem, though, is not the power that the character itself has, so much as it is the question of the owner's responsibility and/or adherence to fluff and common sense. I'd have absolutely no problem with a character like the above Rogue Trader so long as the owning player knows what he or she is doing.

I agree with koval, but a lot of people who get involved in an arms race dont have the common sense, respect for fluff or sensability to do it fair and right

That is true, and that is why there is one vital question one should always ask oneself: Why does my character need this power, what does it add except for more power?

That usually is enough to throw out plenty of over the top things, often such big things are merely tacked onto the character because they are cool but they form no essential part of it.