Hello gents. Project Jubilee was supposed to be my headline event at both the last IGT and the Autumn Conclave, but supply problems, engineering issues, having to redo huge chunks that didn't work out the first time around (or which simply weren't "right") and general procrastination put paid to that.
But having been started it over a year ago now, I'm reduced to looking at the various parts and lacking motivation.
I find sharing things does help my motivation, but I've been reluctant to do it for this because it was supposed to be something of a surprise (although not a very well kept one, as it's now common knowledge to our Dark Heresy group, and I know not all of them kept their trap shut) – however, it's probably going to take another year or more if I don't find some more motivation.
And here's hoping you guys can get me motivated enough to continue and actually get it done in time for the coming IGT (now less than 10 weeks). So, Project Jubilee*:
(http://i772.photobucket.com/albums/yy3/MarcoSkoll/Inquisitor%20Models/WIP%20Models/CIMG5758.jpg)
Sorry, it's an old photo, but the lighting isn't good enough to get a decent picture of what few changes I've made since.
The three things to note are;
1) The upper legs do exist in a framework form, but they weren't practical to pose for this.
2) The reactors are place holders cut from scrap packaging polystyrene (fortunately I did do a test run, as it turns out my dimensions were too narrow). They need to be done again out of extruded polystyrene. If anyone has a decent recommendation for where to buy it without picking up a massive slab from the local builder's merchants, I'd be glad, as the last time I bought it online was soooo long ago the webstore has gone out of business.
3) The shin plates won't sit that low on the final model, but their supports still needed building at that point.
*So called after the Jubilee locomotives of the London, Midland and Scottish Railway. This one will be borrowing its name from Leander (http://fav.me/d2zljt6), the first locomotive I ever travelled behind.
Maybe not very Titan-ish, but when you build your own 54mm Warhound, you can call it what you want.
Wow looking good so far.
Beats my dreader anyday
T.
54mm.........War...hound......titan
<sits in a corner rocking back and forth while gibbering quietly>
on a more serious note, it looks good so far, very true to the 28mm design (and I'm sorry if I misremembered which titan was which, I think that's a warhound, yes)
Holy smokes! It really is big isn't it! I really hope you have the motivation to see this project through to the finish. It'll be absolutely incredible.
Yes, it really is big.
It's one thing to throw about numbers like it being 18" tall (although that varies with pose, as all the joints are articulated) or have the 1:1 blueprints, but when it's actually in three dimensions on the table in front of you, you are left in no doubt about why they're called Titans.
It does however leave you wondering what the people who say they should be bigger are smoking. This is a baby Titan as they go, but take a model's eye view, and you wouldn't begrudge them a change of underwear:
(http://i210.photobucket.com/albums/bb122/RagnarokEOTW/9804d4f0.jpg)
~~~~~
Anyway, I figure I should actually explain the reason for this beyond "because I can".
It started when sometime after the 2009 IGT when I doubted that many people had noticed that what is supposed to be the flagship event for Inquisitor was going on in the same hall as them.
And that's a shame. The event doesn't promote Inquisitor if it's barely noticed.
So, I decided I needed to think of a way people would notice. I don't know at what point that idea turned into this, but I've had a general love of the Mars Pattern Warhound for a long time.
But, having no use for a 40k scale one, as I don't play Apocalypse (anyway, my 40k army is Eldar), there was little reason to build or buy one. I play more Inquisitor than I do 40k, and there are at least some excuses to include one of the God-Machines as part of an Inquisitor scenario, so it resulted in what you see here.
Basically, it's the end result of a love of the Mars Warhound and a desire to do something really noticeable for Inquisitor.
That does simplify it a bit, as it was originally also intended to celebrate the 10th Anniversary of Inquisitor (part of the reasoning behind the Jubilee name), but that's a little late now. Well, it can help celebrate the 5th GT instead.
It's just immense.
It must be one of the most insane projects ever undertaken for Inquisitor, and that means something. |If this thing doesn't draw attention I don't know what will.
Immense modelling so far, both in terms of execution and scale. I wish you every luck in completing this mammoth project; it will look fantastic!
WOW! :o :o ??? :o :o ??? ??? ??? :o :o :o :o That is all.
No, wait, this model deserves more. That's an awesome piece! I see you're using wood, that's because plasticard isn't stable/strong enough, right? Seeing how thorough you've been with other projects I can't see anything else than this becoming a very precise copy of a warhound. What are you going to arm it with? PICTURES PICTURES PICTURES?! ;D ;D ;D
Quote from: Trasher on January 24, 2012, 10:11:23 AMI see you're using wood, that's because plasticard isn't stable/strong enough, right?
The balsa is down to two reasons.
Firstly, balsa is a tenth of the density of plasticard. So, if I need a thick wall or so, it's actually far more weight efficient to use balsa than to try and build an equivalently rigid piece out of plasticard.
In some cases, where I'm expecting to have to glue a lot of details later, things like the side walls in the upper body are balsa faced with thin plasticard (as gluing to plasticard can be accomplished more quickly than to balsa).
Secondly, it's far quicker and easier. Using a solid piece of balsa is one piece to cut to shape, not 10 different pieces that then all need gluing together.
Both are important points, but the weight one was the main decision. It's a tall model, and I need to keep the centre of gravity way down. Which is why the upper body is mostly balsa and thin plasticard, but the legs make extensive use of copper pipe, slabs of PVC, the thickest plasticard I could get my hands on, steel and milliput impregnated with lead shot.
The latter is what the toes are made from, although mostly covered over with regular milliput. While not quite as dense as solid lead, it's not far off the weight as if these parts were solid steel.
QuoteWhat are you going to arm it with?
I'm going with what's considered the standard Mars Pattern loadout, the Vulcan Mega-Bolter and Plasma Blastgun.
I had originally considered doing interchangeable weapons, but it would have made the LED lighting almost impossible to wire. Not to mention that there's no need to be able to optimise the weapons loadout for Inquisitor - any one of the weapons could comfortably cause whatever havoc my scenario needs it to.
The issue is more going to be stop it instantly killing player characters the moment it takes a dislike to them - I expect the solution will involve some sort of inverse relationship between accuracy and character importance.
I'd imagine the footprint within which the guns cannot traverse would be a fair percentage of a 4x4 table,.
... does that rule even exist in post-Apocalypse 40k?
Also if you're going to the effort of wiring it up for light, are you going to motorise the Mega Bolter barrels? ;D
Quote from: biggreengribbly on January 24, 2012, 02:11:03 PMAlso if you're going to the effort of wiring it up for light, are you going to motorise the Mega Bolter barrels?
Remote controlled Nerf guns. If you can't manage this Marco, you're not the man I thought you were ;)
Quote from: biggreengribbly on January 24, 2012, 02:11:03 PMDoes that rule even exist in post-Apocalypse 40k?
Only for carapace mounted weapons. Arm weapons have no minimum range.
Mind you, if you're close enough that the arm weapons can't point at you, you then have to start worrying about the fact it weighs more than 400 tonnes.
In practice, I'm going to have to be a little liberal about the exact range of its weapons traverse (else it would only be a threat to things above ground level on an average board).
QuoteAlso if you're going to the effort of wiring it up for light, are you going to motorise the Mega Bolter barrels?
I had considered it, but at present, the Mega bolter is just solid balsa.
I may replace it with a motorised version, but that does have several problems. The big ones are complexity, power and weight.
As far as power, the current power supply is a 4 AA battery box taking the place of the power junction on the back of the Titan (there aren't many pictures of the back of Titans, but you can see that junction on this Lucius Pattern (http://www.forgeworld.co.uk/Images/Product/AlternativeFW/xlarge/Wolfalt6.jpg)).
It's a bit of a compromise on the junction's shape, but it was an accessible place to put it.
This was only designed to offer enough juice to run the LEDs for a couple of hours, and motors will mess with that.
Hmm. It might be possible to double up the power by instead putting a battery box behind each of the reactor exhausts. This could help rebalance the rather front heavy body.
Quote from: RobSkib on January 24, 2012, 02:14:10 PMRemote controlled Nerf guns. If you can't manage this Marco, you're not the man I thought you were ;)
Possible, although NERF wouldn't work (just doesn't go that small). And I think the players might be somewhat aghast it actually started firing what would work at their pristinely painted models.
Quote from: MarcoSkoll on January 24, 2012, 03:42:24 PM
Possible, although NERF wouldn't work (just doesn't go that small). And I think the players might be somewhat aghast it actually started firing what would work at their pristinely painted models.
*puts away paintball gun*
But I would suggest having it more as a movable terrain piece instead of a vehicle- I want to see characters jumping onto its back from high hab-blocks, and fighting atop the carapace and weapons!
Also, on a minor rules note, what effect will machine empathy have (if any)?
I'd suggested Marco build scaffolding that can be set up around it - that way games can be fought in a repair facility or starship hold and it can be used in more situations than just having it stomping around and shooting everything.
Quote from: Draco Ferox on January 24, 2012, 04:51:11 PM
But I would suggest having it more as a movable terrain piece instead of a vehicle- I want to see characters jumping onto its back from high hab-blocks, and fighting atop the carapace and weapons!
I can't speak for everyone, but personally, I get a bit twitchy when I'm balancing my models on top of something tall that they're likely to fall off of / get accidentally knocked down from. I tend to put a lot of effort into my pieces, and don't like to put them into situations where they might come to unnecessary harm.
But I agree that using it as a terrain piece might be an interesting way to counteract it's inevitably high power. Perhaps the titan is being repaired by a rebel / heretic princeps and his cohorts in Fayde Thuring style, and a plucky Inquisitor has to stop them before they complete their preparations and wreak havoc with the titan...
Or perhaps the titan is in the hold of a ship, en route to an active warzone. A heretic/alien infiltrator on board the ship has taken the opportunity to plant an explosive device on the titan, and the Inquisitor/magos/rogue trader has to get on board the titan and remove/defuse the explosives before they go off... However, the infiltrators are still on board, and could strike at any moment...
Well, long story short, there are ways to include the titan in your games, but without a princeps to make it work, all it would ever really be is a rather eye-catching and awe-inspiring terrain piece.
You've certainly taken on quite an ambitious project here, Marco... Should I assume that the next edition of the Revised Armoury will include titan weapons? :P
Of course, a princeps model opens up all sorts of escort mission posibilities. And I wouldn't suggest balancing models on top, but using counters, and holding the models in place when they are required (for LOS etc). It doesnt really hurt if a counter falls off. I know it might seem a bit cheap, but I just want someone to jump on and off it, space marine style.
Quote from: Draco Ferox on January 24, 2012, 07:21:25 PMI wouldn't suggest balancing models on top, but using counters, and holding the models in place when they are required (for LOS etc).
The dice gods favour models that don't use stunt doubles ;)
But yes, I whole-heartedly agree about creating a kind of scaffolding so that models can fight around it. It would make an incredible centre piece. Kinda makes me want to put together a Princeps now...
Quote from: Draco Ferox on January 24, 2012, 04:51:11 PMBut I would suggest having it more as a movable terrain piece instead of a vehicle- I want to see characters jumping onto its back from high hab-blocks, and fighting atop the carapace and weapons!
It largely is designed to be terrain. And as Kaled says, there's a plan for scaffolding. So a lot of scenarios will be based around the "Stop evil person from starting/destroying the titan".
However, I fully intend to do the full-bore "God Machine goes to War" scenario at some point. It's a bloody titan, how can I NOT?
Duelling on its back... while it sounds cool, my worry is the same as Ynek's. It wouldn't be such a problem with a Lucius pattern, but the Mars doesn't have the same flat carapace. It's all slopes and curves.
However, that has given me an idea. If I've got enough clear plasticard, it should be possible to build a frame that could be fitted on top of the carapace to provide flat surfaces to stand on and perhaps a "safety barrier" of sorts around the edge.
Wouldn't look brilliant in photos, but it would allow models to be up there in relative safety.
Mind you, getting up there in the first place would be a challenge, as it's considerably taller than any of the terrain I can recall seeing at WHW.
QuoteAlso, on a minor rules note, what effect will machine empathy have (if any)?
Titans have immensely powerful machine spirits, and Warhounds are even more raw and untempered than their larger relatives. Princeps are recruited from "amongst the Cult Mechanicus or even beyond it" (4th Ed Rulebook pg121) in order to find people strong enough of will to survive the mental link.
I pity any psyker who thinks they can control that - or the mind of a person who can.
Quote from: Ynek on January 24, 2012, 06:21:40 PMShould I assume that the next edition of the Revised Armoury will include titan weapons?
There might be a teensy problem with the Encumbrance penalties:
(http://i772.photobucket.com/albums/yy3/MarcoSkoll/CIMG5760.jpg)
~~~~~
As far as a Princeps, it is going to have a fully modelled interior and crew - who should be removable, allowing the option for a separately modelled Princeps and the possibility of an AdMech warband.
Quote from: MarcoSkoll on January 24, 2012, 08:09:14 PM
Mind you, getting up there in the first place would be a challenge, as it's considerably taller than any of the terrain I can recall seeing at WHW.
Grav chutes? Grapnels? That effin huge valkyrie of Kaled's? They were on it when it moved out of the dock (possibly a continuation of stop the bad guy getting the titan)?
And I completely support the "god machine goes to war" concept. I do, however, feel that unless you happen to have Ursakar E. Creed in your warband (and if so, why is he not on Cadia?), you'll have a tough time hiding that thing while investigating. The scaffolding sounds almost as large a project as the titan itself!
The sister is in one of the worst possible places, the gun is immense! But encumbrance should be no problem for Lord-Inquisitor Caseus Maximus, just use a few suspensor units and an insane strength bonus.
Perhaps the titan is hidden by a giant poster designed to make it look like something else, Godzilla perhaps?
(Caseus is latin for cheese)
Quote from: Dolnikan on January 25, 2012, 07:26:14 AM
Perhaps the titan is hidden by a giant poster designed to make it look like something else, Godzilla perhaps?
Something like the top left of this picture (http://www.vertigo.ripvanfish.com/umad/src/1287515197099.jpg), then? Could work. Though the poster would probably be of a building. Godzilla is abvoiusly an ork/tyranid hybrid, and so the only solution is to nuke 'it (http://tvtropes.org/pmwiki/pmwiki.php/Main/NukeEm)
Not much to add beyond the fact that this is an incredible project and I very much look forward to seeing it advance!
Sure; not necessarily that helpful, but credit where credit's due and all that....
(Also loving the CREEEEEED references :p)
(http://images.dakkadakka.com/gallery/2009/6/22/39295-Creed,%20Tactical%20Genius.jpg)
Encouragement is helpful. I wasn't necessarily expecting a horde of suggestions and advice when I posted this, as I'm somewhat off the edge of the map (here there be dragons) with this simply due to the scales involved.
I can say from personal experience, not all the lessons learnt from more modestly scaled scratch-build vehicles have been entirely useful on a model several times the size.
That said, I will have to refer to the wisdom of others when it comes to painting it though.
(http://media.desura.com/images/groups/1/3/2055/Creed.gif)
Glad you like them. However, silly stuff like that is not while we're here, and this thread is getting a little derailed. It's about a titan. In 54mm. I still have a hard time getting my head around that.
Marco, those parts which are complete so far look fantastic. Are you planning to have raised detail on the left shin armour plates, and have you decided on a colour scheme yet?
Yes, the left greave will also have raised detail (as will, possibly, the waist plate and head armour, if I find designs that grab me), as the sketched out design below:
(http://i772.photobucket.com/albums/yy3/MarcoSkoll/Inquisitor%20Models/WIP%20Models/CIMG5411.jpg)
I think the cog has the appropriate number of teeth (sixteen, which I think relates to the Universal Laws)
The Latin numerals (MMMMMDCXC) are yet another reference to the same steam locomotive. As is the whole thing really - it goes to the point its absent* sister titan is named after the Jubilee that's still undergoing repair and preservation after its recovery from Woodham Bros. Scrapyard.
*One is probably enough.
The colour scheme is going to follow that same lead (see here again (http://fav.me/d2zljt6)). Mostly maroon, black around working areas and saffron yellow as a secondary colour. Edging and stuff... the brass colour that tends to appear on Titans will do here, there's enough brass on a steam locomotive (there's a reason they call it steampunk).
Conveniently, Humbrol actually do LMS Crimson Lake in their RailMatch range. And while it's a slightly funny purple in the pot it dries pretty much exactly the right colour. Doesn't cover very well though, and will need at least two coats.
It's also a matt/satin finish. I'm not sure about whether I'll want to gloss over that to get the right end result.
Blimey!
So, essentially, if I wanted to one-up this thing, I would have to build a full 1:1 scale Titan, or possibly a 54mm scale star-ship.
Either way the parents would be annoyed if I tried to construct one in the living-room. Not least 'cause I'd have to knock out the front wall of the house to make room.
Any thoughts so far on how you intend to manage a scenario with a fully active Titan frolicking merrily around the table, spreading sweetness and light wheresoever it doth?
I look forward with great anticipation to seeing 'Jubilee' completed, and perhaps, at some point in the future, a battle report or two involving the magnificent beast posted on this very forum?
Quote from: Inquisitor Goldeneye on January 28, 2012, 11:09:24 PMAny thoughts so far on how you intend to manage a scenario with a fully active Titan frolicking merrily around the table, spreading sweetness and light wheresoever it doth?
I can't say too much without spoiling (more) surprised about my IGT scenario, so you'll have to excuse my vagueness.
The primary point is that while the Titan will be part of the scenario setting and related to the player's objectives, it's mostly going to be something they have to try to work around (or use to their advantage). Unimaginatively trying to tackle it head on will most likely result in the expected result.
Basically, roughly the same purpose as you put Walter and your F-grade combat servitor to.
Fortunately for the PCs, there should be a fair few ablative NPCs to keep it (slightly) distracted.
QuotePerhaps, at some point in the future, a battle report or two involving the magnificent beast posted on this very forum?
I hope (assuming it's done by then) to take enough pictures and a sound recording of the game at the IGT to be able to write up that.
I might, however, also be talked into meeting up with some other players specifically for the purposes of a battle report for Dark Magenta or something.
Quote from: Inquisitor Goldeneye on January 28, 2012, 11:09:24 PM
Either way the parents would be annoyed if I tried to construct one in the living-room. Not least 'cause I'd have to knock out the front wall of the house to make room.
A small sacrifice for such a project ;D
One of my friends-of-a-friend has made a reaver titan from insulation foam and plasticard. It is sadly broken now, but I stood about 4' tall, and always seemed out of proportion for a 40k scale model. however, anyone wants the templates for it, they're on the BWC paper archives at yahoo (I think). The only complaints I would have about using the reaver is that it looked blocky and had little detail, and was fairly top-heavy, which basically meant that once it was on the table, you couldn't really move it without the risk of it toppling over. Marco's titan, on the other hand, appears to be richly adorned.
The design looks lovely. I hope to see more soon.
Ugh. Too much stuff happening, not enough Titan. You are invited to badger me silly if you want updates.
So, I've got some more work done on the head.
The upper armour has Milliput work to get the shapes that would be tricky to do in plasticard or balsa. This is only the first stage though, and getting these shapes neatly in MP really needs at least two or three.
Also, I think I need to use thinner balsa for the "nostrils"
(http://i772.photobucket.com/albums/yy3/MarcoSkoll/Inquisitor%20Models/WIP%20Models/CIMG5777.jpg)
This underside is pretty much guesswork, as photos of the bottom of Warhound heads are hard to come by, and I could only find one for Lucius pattern. Needs a few more details and I need to build the stuff to go between the two sets of piping.
(http://i772.photobucket.com/albums/yy3/MarcoSkoll/Inquisitor%20Models/WIP%20Models/CIMG5778.jpg)
At this stage, I need to make the call on whether to motorise the mega bolter, as it means redesigning the electrical system and ordering in parts.
The head looks very good, it has the proper shape. Even with milliput it has to be quite hard to get it right.
Motorising the Vulcan Mega bolter could be cool but I'm afraid that it would be a lot more work. And the rotating barrels would not add very much to the model I'm afraid.
Since it would add a lot of work to the project, I wouldn't bother. Remember Marco, you're making a 54mm titan. That by itself is impressive enough, and all I see is your mind racing ahead of the project. I'm not bashing you personally, it's also a huge character flaw of mine, but time and hard experience have shown me that I have a tendency to bite off more than I can chew (not just figuratively...)
Since it would add a lot of work to the project, I wouldn't bother. Remember Marco, you're making a 54mm titan. That by itself is impressive enough, and all I see is your mind racing ahead of the project. I'm not bashing you personally, it's also a huge character flaw of mine, but time and hard experience have shown me that I have a tendency to bite off more than I can chew (not just figuratively...). I think that not motorising the barrels is a good choice, as let's not forget the responses at the start of the project, most of which were *rubs eyes in disbelief* "Did I read/see that right?". It's already a fantastic project, and I would like to see you just get it done and painted, so you can use it in that conclave you're running.
I think I probably agree. While I fully intend to do the LED lighting, I'm not sure the motorisation would add enough to justify the extra complexity and weight.
That said, I think I'll add the additional battery box anyway. Extra battery life and balance weight can't be a bad thing. (The design of the Warhound is quite front heavy, particularly when you start using Milliput on the head instead of plasticard or balsa)
Regrettable update to status:
Given the pessimistic soothsaying of people on Skype about whether this can be done in time, I'm shifting Leander to 2nd priority so as to avoid any risk of not getting my actual warband done in time.
When they're done, I'll come back to this and do what I can to see if this can still be finished in time - but based on previous mistakes, there's too much of a risk of this eating up all the time for everything else.
Worst case scenario, if the theme for the Summer Conclave sticks, the game I've written for the Titan will happily work there with just a change or two.
Possibly play the scenario over a titan being built?
If a fight's going to spill into a Titan manufactorum it'll likely involve a lot more (just in terms of combatants) than just a few warbands. I doubt the Adeptus Mechanicus would take kindly to their holy sanctum being defiled. You're probably looking for something closer to either a Deathwatch game (if small warband versus large army) or Apocalypse match (if more than one army).
I'll warrant that there's a very good reason for bringing a Titan into Inquisitor, but there are lots of reasons why a scenario in a manufactorum wouldn't really fit.
A bigger issue is that a model Titan being built looks nothing like a real Titan being built.
However, on Koval's note, I do have a load of NPC guardsmen (not exactly Skitarii, but needs must) and some new NPC rules I want to try out. :P
But in any case, I assure you, it will get done ASAP. I have a big Maelstrom box filled with Infinity Haqqislam (http://i772.photobucket.com/albums/yy3/MarcoSkoll/Infinity/CIMG5782.jpg) that I'm sworn off working on until Leander is finished.
I think as far as the size of a normal game, that pile is actually the Infinity equivalent of an 40k Apocalypse army, but given how pretty the models are, I don't care.
(Note to Robey: I know I said I had Yu Jing HI, and I do. I have both. Daft, yes, but refer to previous note about pretty models and not caring.)
Quote from: MarcoSkoll on February 11, 2012, 03:10:39 PM
A bigger issue is that a model Titan being built looks nothing like a real Titan being built.
That is hardly a problem that you can't fix with chicken wire, guitar strings, and a few cables. :P
As everyone already knows, I totally love inq.scale super heavies.
Nice work, Marco.
With the various talk regarding the IGT13, I'm working on this beast once again.
I'm doing a mulligan on the Vulcan Mega-Bolter, as while balsa makes a decent structural material, it doesn't paint well unless it's smoothed over with wall filler or something.
(http://i772.photobucket.com/albums/yy3/MarcoSkoll/Inquisitor%20Models/WIP%20Models/CIMG8530.jpg)
This version should weigh about the same as the balsa version without any meaningful compromise on strength, although it is taking a lot longer to build.
~~~~~
What is still worrying me is the matter of weight and balance.
My upper guess on the upper body (torso, weapons, head) weight is around 1500 grams; the low guess is about 1000 grams. It's all a bit dependent on how many batteries I shove in there (I'm currently debating between 8 or 12*) and how much the remaining parts will weigh.
*More batteries is obviously longer battery life, but the bigger bonus is the chance to use them as a counter balance to get the torso's centre of gravity closer to the waist joint (which has the effect that rotating the torso won't throw off the balance).
The downside is it will move the overall centre of gravity up.
... in any case, that's all perched between 30-45 cm up off the table.
However, each individual foot and lower leg should weigh in at nearly as much as the entire upper body (mostly due to lots of lead shot) and does have an area about the same as my splayed hands. I'm hoping that this will bring the centre of gravity low enough and make the ground contact wide enough as to quash any doubts about stability.
This bottom-heavy approach was in the plan from the start, but it's beyond hard to predict exactly where the centre of gravity is going to be. Or rather, it's actually impossible, because the thing articulates and won't have a fixed CoG.
(Then again, I suppose the Forge World 28mm scale ones can be stable without a base, and those don't have the advantage of being weighted.)
Why don't you put the batteries in the legs and just run some wire up to the upper body?
How have i missed this thread in the past??
Just inspiring stuff!
Are you going to be detailing an interior replete with princeps etc?
I'm happy to see this project hasn't been forgotten :)
Quote from: Koval on December 15, 2012, 07:34:18 AMWhy don't you put the batteries in the legs and just run some wire up to the upper body?
The two halves of the Titan are not going to be permanently attached, but magnetised so it can be disassembled for easier transport. The legs and the upper body will each make a relatively "flat" piece to transport, without the big voids the overall shape would have.
(I had considered making it fold up at its hip joints, but that wouldn't pack very efficiently - even if the hip joints didn't have pistons that would fall apart under those circumstances.)Running a connection up through that kind of joint is not likely to be reliable. Running wire outside with a breakable electrical connection wouldn't be a problem though.
However, it would mean deviating from the design, and I'm not actually sure exactly where in the legs I'd put a battery box. The "Pelvis" is going to be mostly structural engineering to make the hip joints work, so there's not really much room there. The upper thighs are large enough - but I'd have to re-engineer my plans for the structural skeleton there.
The tl;dr answer is that it's the only practicable place to keep the power supply.
Quote from: seaglen on December 15, 2012, 12:15:04 PMAre you going to be detailing an interior replete with princeps etc?
Yes, there will be an interior, complete with a Princeps, Techpriest, 2x Moderati and 2x weapons targeting servitors. Some sources list an extra servitor and Techpriest, but space is fairly tight in there anyway! (Even though I'm likely going to omit one of the internal bulkheads/doors)
I'll probably throw in some maintenance servo skulls though. (I'd imagine they're MIU-Linked to the Techpriest, letting him work through them and access areas he otherwise couldn't).
All except the servitors should be removable. Partly so the crew can have "on foot" models to allow them to appear not in the Titan (although the Techpriest is going to have a standing model anyway), partly to offer up another possibility.
The plan is to leave some parts swappable to leave open the possibility of a later project to make parts to reconfigure the chassis into a Chaos Titan - likely Khorne dedicated based on my planned colour scheme and the number of parts that are practicable to swap. (Armour-wise, the shin, loin, head and back plates).
The former case is simply that the colour scheme is going to be similar to the Legio Ignatum - a Maroon, Yellow, Black, Brass combination taken from (as I've said before) this steam locomotive (http://fav.me/d2zljt6). That colour scheme works for Khorne, so that's good.
The other part is that I won't have the opportunity to defile every last armour plate - with Khorne, that works fine. Things like the Brass Scorpion and Blood Slaughterer are actually very "clean". They're not covered in rust or dribbling daemonic pus all over the place, which means that having some "plain" armour plates won't be out of place.
Leaving the crew interchangeable will mean an opportunity for either rotting crew (as a daemon engine) or some traitorous fanatics driving it.
But that is (at very best) a long way off. Still, planning ahead never hurts.
~~~~~
As an aside, I have no idea how the Vulcan Mega bolter is meant to hold the 14,000 rounds claimed in Imperial Armour. With conservative ammunition dimensions, I can about see a way (although not fully practical) to get about 2,000-2,500 rounds per hopper.
With my own interpretation of the mega-bolter, with much longer barrels (you may notice the ejection port is much further back on my version) and the larger cartridge to make use of that, I'm getting about 1,200 rounds per hopper.
(Basically, my interpretation starts with the idea that each half of the Mega Bolter is roughly a 50mm version of the GAU-8 Avenger*).
*Although the Avenger doesn't eject cases, it feeds them back into the magazine. It stops them damaging the plane as they're ejected.However, rather than the normal interpretation of bolter rounds, I'm playing it as something a bit different, with the fuse instead being more like that on the Bofors 3P ammunition.
The full description on that is here (https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=t7WqCbIpbjk), but the short version is that it comes with proximity fuses (to allow it to detonate near hard to hit aerial targets), time fuses (to allow it to detonate at a given distance) or impact fuses (to let it explode on impact, or delayed to go off after penetrating the target).
50mm calibre (although I'm not sure on a canonical source for that, it's what I'm going with) is not something to use against infantry in the way bolter ammo is normally fused (to go off when it hits its target).
I see the Mega-Bolter as being able to air-burst munitions, blasting apart entire squads with well timed and aimed bursts of just a fraction of a second (perhaps even delaying detonations until after the rounds have penetrated intervening terrain). Against harder targets like vehicles, it might use direct impact.
Of course, using that kind of ammunition in a Gatling gun is crazy... but so is a Titan. Stupidly awesome over-engineering is routine in the GrimDark.
I don't think that vulcan megabolter shells are anywhere near 50mm calibre -- I'd assumed something more like 30.
I could go for that, but a to-scale 30mm calibre won't actually be very impressive on the model.
Still, that would make for a longer lasting ammunition capacity - about 2,400-2,500 rounds per hopper at about the 30x173mm used in the GAU-8. It's plausible with the multi-fused ammunition as well - the 30x173mm exists in air-burst variants for the Mk44 Bushmaster.
I guess, at 30mm, very squat rounds could make about a total 14,000 rounds possible with odd magazine design, but it wouldn't have the kind of velocity* and destructive power I'd imagine from a titan weapon.
*For the version I have in mind, I'm thinking about 1,250-1,300 m/s at the muzzle, boosting to about 1,600 m/s after the rocket gets it to full velocity.
Semi-update: I mislaid all the LEDs I needed, but my reorder has arrived, so I can actually finish assembling some of the parts that needed LEDs installed before they were done.
I settled on two battery boxes, as rewiring them into four parallel sets of two rather than two parallel sets of four will reduce draw on each cell and the necessary current limiting resistance. Add in a cutback on the number of LEDs used (particularly if the ones in the torso are turned off when they can't be seen), and battery life might be as much as 30 hours straight.
In any case, definitely be more than enough to run the LEDs throughout an entire event day (and quite possibly an entire weekend).
If the torso needs more counterweight, there are more efficient places to put it than where there's actually room to put a third battery box.
Marco, this thing is brilliantly mad. I am glad to see you are still working on it! I'd seen it before while lurking elsewhere, but thought you must have consigned it to the dustbin...
No, it's far from in the dustbin - it's just seldom top priority on the to-do list.
Right now, it's waiting so I can get my IGT characters done and dusted; hopefully I'll get a clean run on it after they're done.
Oh good! ;D I look forwards to seeing more on the Leander soon then...!
I've always liked the LMS Crimson Lake livery, should look great on a 54mm scale Titan. Glad to see that you're making progresss on this.
WOW :o I am so looking forward to seeing the finished thing.
After some months, I'm trying to find time for this girl, in the vain hope she might be ready for an Autumn event (if there is one).
No pictures yet, but I'm trying to see if I can reduce my reliance on milliput for the upper body, particularly the head area, and thus cut the weight of the upper body. So, at present, I'm trying to remake the head armour from plasticard.
An update - a small one for now, but hopefully to grow.
Firstly, some old work you guys haven't seen yet:
(http://i772.photobucket.com/albums/yy3/MarcoSkoll/Inquisitor%20Models/WIP%20Models/CIMG7216_800.jpg)
This is the start of a replacement for the original head armour. The original version was balsa and milliput, which meant it was both textured and heavy. In future, I'll be trying to keep balsa parts hidden, and minimise weight in the model's head.
~~~~~
As far as the present day... after finally having things sorted enough I actually had the space to pull out all the large project boxes for this, I'm hoping to get the basic shape of the plasma reactors in plasticard over the weekend.
As a start, this means sorting out the battery boxes, which will be built in behind the exhaust vents (they'll be part of the counterbalancing for the upper body).
So, I looked at the parts I mentioned back in December 2012, wondered why I'd ordered several rectifier diodes, started modifying the battery boxes to work as four parallel 3V batteries rather than one 12V battery, plugged in some batteries, attached a multimeter... then realised what the diodes were for and had to go back and put them in:
(http://i772.photobucket.com/albums/yy3/MarcoSkoll/Inquisitor%20Models/WIP%20Models/CIMG7215_800.jpg)
Past me is apparently smarter than current me. He'd spotted this problem before I'd even had it. The issue with a parallel power supply is that each set of batteries actually makes a completed circuit for the others, and the sets all want to equalise by discharging through each other. But with each set separated off behind diodes, it breaks that circuit.
Hence some rechargeable NiMH AAs should result in something like an 8000 mAh 2.4V supply, which should last much better than a 2000 mAh 9.6V battery. 50mAh per LED (they're quite high power LEDs, they need to be visible in a well lit room) times maybe a dozen will be an average drain of about 300 mAH. So 8000 mAh would last about 24 hours (whereas a 9.6V battery would have to waste loads of power in a voltage limiting resistor).
That's obviously more than is needed to keep it stood and fully lit as a centrepiece for an event day, but it is enough that I could theoretically still visit the idea of motorising the mega bolter.
That's not a promise, but it would be nice to do (along with building an oscillator circuit into the blastgun's LEDs so its glow pulses).
An excess of sleep and housework has lead to less progress than desired today, but nonetheless, some has been made.
(http://i772.photobucket.com/albums/yy3/MarcoSkoll/Inquisitor%20Models/WIP%20Models/CIMG7227_800.jpg)
On the right, the styrofoam mock-up that's serving as a reference. On the left, the backbone of one of the reactors, built on the same honeycomb approach as I've used elsewhere - strong, but also reasonably light. I have however left open some options for where I can shove more ballast if the upper body needs more balancing than just the battery boxes.
(However, no matter how well I can balance the body or brave the players may be, it's looking like it probably still won't be smart to try and balance models to duel on the carapace. Even if it would be incredibly cool, and almost a cinematic requirement to try to have it happen at least once, I think it'd need some stand-ins - particularly for metal models).
good to see this being worked on again, been looking forward to its completion since you started working on it, shame about the non-titan-top-dueling carapace but like you said, some stand ins and it will all be ok.
good idea with the honeycombing of the plasticard, havent made anything big enough to need it yet myself but stashed in a folder for future reference
It would seem a little against your attention for detail, but you could consider constructing certain parts of the titan graded to make it secure for models to stand on. You could also add on some texturing that would make it less slippery. Regardless, it'll probably be difficult to make it 100% secure. Some scaffolding would do the trick though, but I believe you actually mentioned that earlier in the thread (if memory serves). That's an entire project unto itself though.
Anyway, glad to see you working on this again! It'll make a nice centerpiece some day.
I'd love to have the option of models being able to ride the carapace*, which admittedly the squarer shapes of the Lucius Pattern would have been much more suitable for**, but the danger isn't really with regards to "what if we knock models off?"
The issue is that the waist joint on the Warhound is fairly far back on the torso, making it naturally head heavy. Now, the feet are large enough...
(http://i772.photobucket.com/albums/yy3/MarcoSkoll/Inquisitor%20Models/WIP%20Models/CIMG7236_600.jpg)
... that with generous ballasting, I'm not too worried about the whole thing just keeling over. However, the joints will all be poseable***, and making sure the hip joints have enough grip to balance the torso may be interesting enough even without the extra challenge of trying to make two or three heavy metal models safe up there too.
I am hoping to make it a safe environment for models, even if it will come down to things like building an acrylic safety rail that can be added if models do get up there, but I'm working on the assumption that it won't be.
* It would probably involve some deliberately tall buildings for characters to try leaping from though. It's not called a Titan because it's short.
** And easier to build. But I prefer the Mars Pattern, and given the project was beyond insane either way...
*** It's something of a practicality concern for a model this large. Having it rigid would severely limit where it could stand on many tables.
~~~~~
Anyway... it's taking a little longer than hoped, but I do now have a lot of the basic shape of both reactors:
(http://i772.photobucket.com/albums/yy3/MarcoSkoll/Inquisitor%20Models/WIP%20Models/CIMG7234_800.jpg)
(http://i772.photobucket.com/albums/yy3/MarcoSkoll/Inquisitor%20Models/WIP%20Models/CIMG7235_800.jpg)
They're just blu-tacked in place for now, and there's a bit more of the honeycombing to do, but after that it'll largely just be about giving them a skin. However, some of that will have to be left until after I've run the power cables for the LEDs in the weapon arms.
So, that probably makes the arms fairly high up the list. The basic shape of the mega-bolter is fairly complete (with just the question of whether I'll adjust it to include motorised barrels), but the blastgun barely even exists in blueprint form yet.
Another tempting goal is to get the skeleton of the legs completed so I can have it freestanding for the first time. The caveat to that is that the parts for that were cut more than two years ago and left entirely unlabelled, so what I have is a jigsaw puzzle.
That's a lot of progress!
Your explanation of the challenges of having models run across the outside of the model make a lot of sense. By way of a practical suggestion, you could try having pins in the join so that you move the model, then insert the pins to absolutely secure various poses (like changing weights on a weight machine, only more complicated). This could get difficult to do and would somewhat limit the range of poses, but it would help you be confident that the model will stay in whatever pose you choose.
No new pieces to show today, but nonetheless a bit of progress has been made.
Firstly, I think I worked out largely how the parts I had were supposed to make a leg:
(http://i772.photobucket.com/albums/yy3/MarcoSkoll/Inquisitor%20Models/WIP%20Models/CIMG7238_800.jpg)
(Complete with my 1:1 reference, scaled from the Imperial Armour books).
This isn't the pretty part, but it will be the load bearing skeleton.
There is a problem with the knee joints, however, as I discovered when I disassembled them for inspection. The pieces on the right are roughly what they should look like, the work of a hot air gun to reshape them. The parts on the left are how they came out of the joint:
(http://i772.photobucket.com/albums/yy3/MarcoSkoll/Inquisitor%20Models/WIP%20Models/CIMG7240_600.jpg)
... in other words, I'm an idiot. This is a concept called "creep", absolutely routine stuff that was covered in the first year of my incomplete Mechanical Engineering degree.
In very layman's terms, above a certain temperature, materials become ever so slightly liquid and will slowly flow over time. You've probably heard that glass is like this... that's not exactly true, as glass' transition temperature is usually around 500 C/900 F; the irregularity in old glass windows is simply that the manufacturing techniques weren't that precise. However, it is true that plastic can creep at room temperature.
The problem here is that because the friction in the joint is dependent on the inner "arms" pressing out on the outer rings, it means the joints will become softer with time and eventually the whole thing will stop holding poses.
However, good news time:
1) Entirely because this project has taken so long, the problem has been spotted before it would be a nightmare to fix.
2) I can fix this relatively easily. I'll probably have to re-cut some of the parts for the knee joints, but I have the materials to do it and it'll let me do them neater this time.
I've also taken a bit of a look at the work I've already done on the shin guards:
(http://i772.photobucket.com/albums/yy3/MarcoSkoll/Inquisitor%20Models/WIP%20Models/CIMG7241_600.jpg)
It's not terrible sculpting, but it's not exactly up to my current skills. It's possible it would look passable with a mild spruce-up, but I'm considering the possibility of separating the plasticard layer from the PVC pipe it's mounted on (so I'd keep it fairly intact) and cutting a new front face on which I can launch a more sophisticated attempt - possibly a female figure instead, but it might stay a man if I feel enough I feel like sculpting some really buff musculature.
~~~~~
On the note of gender, and I may have said this before, it's already decided that the Princeps will be female, but will have an otherwise male crew.
I know female Princeps don't get a lot of mention in the fluff, but given the AdMech has to look outside of its own Forge Worlds to find enough suitable Princeps Cadets, I doubt half the population would get entirely overlooked.
She's currently the only crew member named though - Helane Rogen. As the Titan will be Leander, her name is part of a play on the original Greek myth, "Hero and Leander".
There's actually quite a lot of background material I'm working on behind the scenes. Given this is Inquisitor, I couldn't reasonably take one of the scarce few Warhounds in the universe and not give it an identity. This does mean I have to explain why Leander will have a closer connection with the Inquisition than other Titans, but I've already got a few options I like.
(As an aside, I will provide it with unnamed shin guards at some point, so that it can theoretically be used as a different Warhound, but I do want it to have a primary identity).
Just a quick post to assure you things are still happening around here.
Nothing particularly glamorous, as much of it has been rebuilding the knee joints - they're not that visibly different from the old ones, but they've been cut more precisely, which should make them less susceptible to loosening over time and also allow them to be put together in a way so they can be partially disassembled for maintenance.
I've also taken the decision to try redoing the relief on the leg armour. The old one was a bit more reluctant to be removed than I anticipated, so I had cut it off in several pieces, but it should be possible to reassemble and repair if I decide I want to reuse it.
I'll try a sketch of a gender swapped relief in the next day or so and see if I like it. I'm still umming and ahhing, as the scrollwork is supposed to be embossed with the Titan's name and it might be a little odd to have the name of a male Greek hero written under a female figure, but a) I'd usually refer to the Titan (or the locomotive it's named after) in the feminine gender anyway, b) I don't think the Imperium is any the wiser, c) it's not completely exclusively male (it's not unknown as a surname, actually) d) who cares or e) I could swap the name to the other shinpad... so I think it really comes down to which I like more.
I'm also still working on the fluff a lot, as it doesn't hurt to have thought all of that through first so I can add related details along the way.
Oh, also, I did take a picture for the benefit of another forum, so I'll drop that in here too:
(http://i772.photobucket.com/albums/yy3/MarcoSkoll/Inquisitor%20Models/WIP%20Models/CIMG7242_800.jpg)
Don't know how I missed this but that is some serious gak Marco. I barely do a damn thing on even small modelling projects so to see a 54mm Warhound Titan... It looks great so far and kudos for even making the attempt ;D
Actual construction work has been a mite slow, but there are new pieces to show:
(http://i772.photobucket.com/albums/yy3/MarcoSkoll/Inquisitor%20Models/WIP%20Models/CIMG7288_800.jpg)
They need a little more refinement, but these parts are for slightly beefier thighs than I originally intended:
(http://i772.photobucket.com/albums/yy3/MarcoSkoll/Inquisitor%20Models/WIP%20Models/CIMG7290_800.jpg)
I wanted to make sure the joins were really robust and wouldn't snap off if they were a bit roughly handled during repositioning, so I needed to increase the footprint to spread the torque better. The result is a little heavier than I'd've liked, but will be relatively central and only about 20cm up ("only", he says), so won't have dire effects on the model's centre of gravity.
I'll probably be ordering some aluminium pipe to use instead of the thin walled steel (originally part of a disposable gas canister) that's in the picture. It won't dramatically affect the weight, but the thicker walls will have their uses.
~~~~~
Beyond that, electronics!
I'm strongly tempted to revise my earlier thinking regarding the megabolter. The electrical system has already been redesigned quite generously (now providing four 3V banks, not one 6V bank), so having the spare battery capacity to motorise it is now not a problem. The megabolter has also been swapped to a (somewhat) hollow plasticard build rather than its earlier balsa. Also, basic motor and gear sets cost about tuppence ha'penny.
Beyond having to run an extra live power feed through the model - and there already need to be at least two (the red and yellow LEDs need a different limiting resistance than the blue and green) - it's not a significant add.
The other subject... my original plan had been to wire a phased oscillator into the blastgun so that I could make the accelerator assemblies out of translucent plastic and have one side fade on, the other fade on, then both fade out and start again.
However, I talked with Ruaridh via Skype on Sunday and his first interpretation was that the glow would travel the length of the barrel... which was not what I'd originally planned and a little more complex to actually assemble, but it sounds cooler to me.
I'm going to have to check my circuit diagrams and order a few new parts - but at this stage, I don't see the point in cutting corners on this project.
I know it'll be a dramatic enough model just because of its size*, but I'd like to turn things up to eleven.
* Even I still have moments where I go "holy crap, this is huge!"
Latest news. Some parts arrived today:
(http://i772.photobucket.com/albums/yy3/MarcoSkoll/Inquisitor%20Models/WIP%20Models/CIMG7294_800.jpg)
On the right, the 50mm aluminium pipe that will replace some steel parts in the hip joints. (Although, as mentioned earlier, the objective is not so much a lighter part, but a thicker part)
On the left, a motor which is now partway through being installed in the megabolter. You can see a short video of it in a vaguely operational state here (https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=yg-o1l4Xw0M).
I've had to gut most of the Vulcan's old honeycomb interior in order to fit the motor and its gearbox, and I may have to weight the back of the weapon to counter balance the motor, but I'm hoping it'll be cool enough to make up for that.
Given it's noisier than I'd hoped (and also starts to smell a bit funny after a minute or two of running), I'm scrapping any plans to use it other than intermittently, and as a result modified a few of my original plans.
I've taken a set of gears out of the box, so it's now running on 37.8:1 gearing with an output of about 225 rpm. This'll let me drop in some crude circuitry to drop that by 20-30% and slow its spin-up/spin-down. That's not completely realistic - it should really have a max RPM of about 400 to match its claimed ROF, and gatling guns normally try to limit their spin-up time, but I'm thinking that it not being a total blur will look better.
I give you a fairly large chunk of the leg skeletons.
(http://i772.photobucket.com/albums/yy3/MarcoSkoll/Inquisitor%20Models/WIP%20Models/CIMG7301_800.jpg)
Yes, parts are actually finally attached to each other here. The copper parts can't be glued in until the feet are done, but all the PVC parts are pretty well attached to each other. I still need to conjure up the top mounting plates so I can attach them to the hips (when those are done, anyway), but that'll be very simple.
I've also been re-discovering how not spherical the wooden balls I bought for joints are, which was going to make engineering a tight fit damn near impossible, so I've made a tool to sort them out using a brass pipe fitting I had around - a brass fitting that'll be painfully pricey to replace if I ever need another, but 1) I had three of them around, with no foreseeable future need for more than one, 2) I've only ever used one of the three in accordance with its design purpose (it's supposed to adapt to 15mm compression, but the only one I'm currently using treats it as 1/2" threaded) and 3) it was less of a pain than trying to find a supplier who'd sell me replacement plastic balls (insert "that's what she said" here) of verifiable precision in sensible sizes and quantities.
The tool is doing a stunningly good job of turning the balls into more accurate spheres, but as they're now slightly smaller, I will need to re-cut a few other parts which were first made to the original sizes.
In any case, I now have much of the basis of poseable legs for a Warhound Titan, and I had to use the opportunity for a new scale shot:
(http://i772.photobucket.com/albums/yy3/MarcoSkoll/Inquisitor%20Models/WIP%20Models/CIMG7309_800.jpg)
(The bottom of a Warhound's hip cylinder is roughly the mid point, depending on pose, so this is about half of Leander's height).
So, yeah, she will be a pretty big girl when she's done. I've seen the 28mm models enough times, but Emperor's teeth has 54mm given me a different perspective on how big these things are supposed to be...
So I saw the leg next to the rhino, and I was like - it's not that big... then I realized that is a 54mm scale rhino and I did a double take! That thing is massive! Very nice, precise engineering there, can't wait to see more!
And now you know why I chose to include two Rhinos in the picture.
Yeah, my big MkII Rhino is a sufficiently good copy of the 28mm model that I have done some trolling size comparisons, like the time someone on DakkaDakka asked how much smaller the old MkI models were:
(http://images.dakkadakka.com/gallery/2014/1/29/579346_sm-54mm%20Rhino.jpg) (http://www.dakkadakka.com/gallery/579346-54mm%20Rhino.html)
(I did own up later in the same post, I add).
Me winding up people on other forums aside, new diagram. I'm hoping this is the basics of the circuitry I need to get the phased lighting for the Plasma blastgun, but I will be checking some of the details with an electronics forum, as I'm very out of practice:
(http://i772.photobucket.com/albums/yy3/MarcoSkoll/Inquisitor%20Models/WIP%20Models/Three%20phase%20and%20LED.jpg)
I won't be satisfied until I read a battle report where the Titan kicks the Rhino at an Inquisitor :P
Seeing that giant leg really made me smile, it truly is a monster. And that rhino... incredible.
I also remember now why I never pursued electronics at school, that diagram means nothing to me ;) ;D I did manage to build a 12v battery charger so that I could charge a portable DVD player, you know, portably, but I just made that with lego and a few prayers to the Omnisiah. Actually working it out, properly, with diagrams? :'(
New parts have arrived!
(http://images.dakkadakka.com/gallery/2015/3/27/699163_sm-54mm%2C%20Circuit%2C%20Inquisitor%2C%20Leander%2C%20Titan%2C%20Warhound.jpg) (http://www.dakkadakka.com/gallery/699163-54mm%2C%20Circuit%2C%20Inquisitor%2C%20Leander%2C%20Titan%2C%20Warhound.html)
Including a few things I already had around, this is most of the electronics yet to go into Leander. There's some surplus parts here as well (I always order spares), but don't let the lack of an easy scale fool you, this picture is nearly three feet from side to side. Many capacitors, resistors, diodes, transistors, switches, LEDs and even a few integrated circuits.
A majority of this will be going into the Plasma Blastgun, so I was rather worried when I actually had the 1000 uF capacitors in hand about how large they were and whether I had enough space inside to fit a couple of dozen of them in there.
... then I looked at my scale plans again and remembered that 1) I had actually checked the numbers before and 2) I was talking about a weapon three inches longer than a 28mm Baneblade.
It's a quite hefty circuit (very different from my original plans) that's going to take a while to solder together, but this is the kind of thing Leander's extra size is permitting (although doubtless a clever person could use SMD PCBs to miniaturise this far enough to fit into the 28mm model), and I'm hoping it'll be cool enough to make up for the effort.
These parts also gives me all the pieces I need to be able to finish the mega bolter's circuitry - I've already soldered in a miniature protection circuit for the motor (While I expect it'll probably be the gearbox that explodes first, I intend to minimise the likelihood of any part blowing up) - so I should be able to move closer to finishing that.
Oh, and I've decided that I
will be trying to make the weapons interchangeable. While all of these weapons are so powerful that their effect in game can only really be defined as "What Inquisitor?" and I'm not sure if/when I will make other loadouts, I'm leaving the option open. So that's what the 3.5mm jacks and sockets are for, so the electrics for the arms can be unplugged.
Quote from: Alyster Wick on March 24, 2015, 01:02:58 AM
I won't be satisfied until I read a battle report where the Titan kicks the Rhino at an Inquisitor :P
"Send medical assistance! Inquisitor Shyloque has been hit by a Rhino."
"It drove into him?"
"Not exactly..."
Quote from: Kallidor on March 26, 2015, 02:45:58 AMActually working it out, properly, with diagrams? :'(
Well, I've adjusted a lot. It's primarily based around 556 and 4017 ICs now, which is allowing me to get pretty darn fancy...
Quote from: MarcoSkoll on March 27, 2015, 07:03:38 PM
It's primarily based around 556 and 4017 ICs now...
I have no idea what that means!!! However, if it works how I think it will then it will be pretty damn slick.
Also, I hope I am not the only one who keeps picturing this thing stomping around like an ED-209.
The 556 is a twin 555, and the 555 is a digital oscillator.
It'll run in:
- astable mode, where neither a high or low output is "stable" (hence, the "a-" prefix, like amoral, atonal or asocial) , with each stage decaying to the other (at a rate set by external components). Hence, it constantly switches on and off, giving a series of timed pulses.
- monostable, stable only if the output is low. Triggering it gives a single on pulse of a set length.
- bistable mode, where both high and low outputs are stable.
The 4017 is a digital counter, where triggering it increases the output by one. Specifically, it's a decade counter, with ten pins for the output. Triggering it turns off output N, and turns on N+1 (up until output 9, when it resets and cycles back to output 0).
Feed the output of an astable 555 into the input of a 4017 and you get this little cycling series of ten outputs. And if you drive LEDs from those, you get a sequence of ten chasing lights.
There's a bit more circuitry to actually switching the LEDs (the ones I've picked are too powerful to be run directly from the 4017's meagre output), but that's the basic effect.
However, the 556 is a double 555. So I'm wiring each side of the blastgun from different halves of the 556 set to slightly different frequencies, which will give a slow "beat frequency" between the two sides (a more visually intriguing effect than them both being exactly in sync).
The other thing about the 555/556 is that it has a control voltage pin that affects the output frequency. Most applications set this to 0V, but I'll be trying to get something to work where using a charging capacitor to feed a rising voltage to the pin so that the chase effect speeds up until the capacitor hits a certain voltage threshold, and discharges through powerful LEDs that'll flash the accelerators bright white for a moment. Basically, a firing effect.
Unfortunately, I've discovered I've ordered less powerful LEDs for the flash than I intended. Mind you, in hindsight, a 130 lumen flash effect probably would have melted people's eyes; 10 lumens does sound a mite smarter.
Anyway, much soldering has happened since yesterday, and this is most of the left half of the LED array:
(http://images.dakkadakka.com/gallery/2015/3/28/699634_sm-54mm%2C%20Circuit%2C%20Inquisitor%2C%20Leander%2C%20LED%2C%20Lighting%2C%20Titan%2C%20Warhound.jpg) (http://www.dakkadakka.com/gallery/699634-54mm%2C%20Circuit%2C%20Inquisitor%2C%20Leander%2C%20LED%2C%20Lighting%2C%20Titan%2C%20Warhound.html)
It's deliberately been put together in that L-shape so that the right half can be made the same, flipped over and slot together (as the capacitors are the biggest concern regarding space.
Given that despite the massive size of the blastgun, I'm a mite limited on space, there's been a little creativity in laying out the board - the capacitors have had to be slightly staggered, as they're a little too big in diameter to fit immediately alongside each other. The LEDs have also been inserted from the wrong side of the stripboard and soldered onto the legs of other components on the top side of the board, so that they can be low to the board (having them on long leads on the other side wouldn't leave enough space to fit both arrays down the centre between the accelerators).
(http://images.dakkadakka.com/gallery/2015/3/28/699632_sm-54mm%2C%20Circuit%2C%20Inquisitor%2C%20Leander%2C%20LED%2C%20Lighting%2C%20Titan%2C%20Warhound.jpg) (http://www.dakkadakka.com/gallery/699632-54mm%2C%20Circuit%2C%20Inquisitor%2C%20Leander%2C%20LED%2C%20Lighting%2C%20Titan%2C%20Warhound.html)
(http://images.dakkadakka.com/gallery/2015/3/28/699633_sm-54mm%2C%20Circuit%2C%20Inquisitor%2C%20Leander%2C%20LED%2C%20Lighting%2C%20Titan%2C%20Warhound.jpg) (http://www.dakkadakka.com/gallery/699633-54mm%2C%20Circuit%2C%20Inquisitor%2C%20Leander%2C%20LED%2C%20Lighting%2C%20Titan%2C%20Warhound.html)
And most of the primary control circuit. Aside from the automatic frequency adjust, one of the 4017 ICs is missing at the moment (there's two so each side can have a slightly different frequency), as the other side isn't ready yet and the chips are rather easy to break. (I did order a spare, but I'd prefer not to have to use it).
(http://images.dakkadakka.com/gallery/2015/3/28/699635_sm-54mm%2C%20Circuit%2C%20Inquisitor%2C%20Leander%2C%20LED%2C%20Lighting%2C%20Titan%2C%20Warhound.jpg) (http://www.dakkadakka.com/gallery/699635-54mm%2C%20Circuit%2C%20Inquisitor%2C%20Leander%2C%20LED%2C%20Lighting%2C%20Titan%2C%20Warhound.html)
And, naturally, there is some video (https://youtu.be/B2KYHsX1TU8). As I say there, it's not yet diffused yet, but you can get an idea of what it'll be like on the final model.
I am slightly wiser on these electronic components but I am not ashamed to admit that this sort of thing does somewhat baffle me but then I have never actually read up on it and good old orky know wots only gets you so far; surprisingly far some times!!
The effect so far is really cool. In the final version, if I understand correctly, each LED will dim slightly as it goes off yes? I imagine that will look even more sophisticated than it does already and also sounds like it would be quite a soothing effect ;D I also like the idea of it building up to a firing flash, something that actually ran through my mind watching the video before reading you post through fully.
Will you be adding LED's to the mega bolter? I imagine you won't have much space with the other components installed to turn the barrels but it seems like a flash of yellow light would suit. What about sound effects?
Very impressive so far Marco and something that Inquisitor scale lends itself so well too; it's great that fantastic centre pieces like this one can advertise the game, almost like thumbing your nose at GW for dropping the line.
Quote from: Kallidor on March 30, 2015, 01:48:53 AMThe effect so far is really cool. In the final version, if I understand correctly, each LED will dim slightly as it goes off yes?
That's already part of the circuit. It's not a huge effect, for three reasons - It can't be, I don't want it to be, and your eyes lie to you. To address them in order:
1) Conventional capacitors have very low energy densities. I considered an option of amplifying a smaller capacitor, but it also amplifies any tolerances in the parts, so might have caused LEDs to fade at noticeably different rates.
2) The circuit is going to change its pulse speed, but I can't adjust the time constant of the circuit on the fly, and I need the LEDs to dim enough between those high speed pulses (otherwise it just blurs together)
3) The eye sees it as one moving light rather than ten pulsing ones. If you focus on one specific LED (cover the others with your hand if you have to), it does fade on and off rather than switching instantly (for an example of normal switching speed, here's here's one of my earlier test videos (https://youtu.be/ty1pnVBbYnY), filmed in 8x high speed - the first two flashes are with the capacitor, the second two are without. (i.e. They normally turn off instantly).
The secondary circuit in the final version will just handle the firing effect (feeding a voltage to the 556's control pins to speed up the chase, and using powerful LEDs to flash the array), the idle effect is effectively done (see below!).
QuoteWill you be adding LED's to the mega bolter? I imagine you won't have much space with the other components installed to turn the barrels but it seems like a flash of yellow light would suit. What about sound effects?
It will have the targeting array lit red, but I'll probably be going with smaller calibre barrels on the final version, so trying to light them wouldn't be very noticeable (and might "leak" around the join between the barrels and the body, which wouldn't look very good either)
As for sound effects, I have put together some (as found in her background thread (http://www.the-conclave.co.uk/forum/index.php?topic=2528.msg33787#msg33787)). I may well bring portable speakers to games, but I'm not planning on trying to integrate speakers into the model.
QuoteVery impressive so far Marco and something that Inquisitor scale lends itself so well too; it's great that fantastic centre pieces like this one can advertise the game, almost like thumbing your nose at GW for dropping the line.
Thumbing my nose? I have no idea what you're talking about... ;)
But yes, I am hoping to make this a model that can really capitalise on the 54mm scale; I don't want this to be a model that could really have been done in 28mm. As INQ28 modellers are consistently proving, 54mm is not an argument in and of itself - it does need to justify itself by doing things that 28mm can't.
And no, I'm not expecting her to be low profile when I finally take her to WHW.
~~~~~
Anyway, there is now a right side of the LED array...
(http://images.dakkadakka.com/gallery/2015/3/30/700272_sm-54mm%2C%20Circuit%2C%20Inquisitor%2C%20Leander%2C%20LED%2C%20Lighting%2C%20Titan%2C%20Warhound.jpg) (http://www.dakkadakka.com/gallery/700272-54mm%2C%20Circuit%2C%20Inquisitor%2C%20Leander%2C%20LED%2C%20Lighting%2C%20Titan%2C%20Warhound.html)
... which has been made to fit opposite the left array as so...
(http://images.dakkadakka.com/gallery/2015/3/30/700271_sm-54mm%2C%20Circuit%2C%20Inquisitor%2C%20Leander%2C%20LED%2C%20Lighting%2C%20Titan%2C%20Warhound.jpg) (http://www.dakkadakka.com/gallery/700271-54mm%2C%20Circuit%2C%20Inquisitor%2C%20Leander%2C%20LED%2C%20Lighting%2C%20Titan%2C%20Warhound.html)
... and it's all quite compact when done. I may have to tweak the exact design of the blastgun a squeak so it fits, but it'll look the part.
(http://images.dakkadakka.com/gallery/2015/3/30/700270_sm-54mm%2C%20Circuit%2C%20Inquisitor%2C%20Leander%2C%20LED%2C%20Lighting%2C%20Titan%2C%20Warhound.jpg) (http://www.dakkadakka.com/gallery/700270-54mm%2C%20Circuit%2C%20Inquisitor%2C%20Leander%2C%20LED%2C%20Lighting%2C%20Titan%2C%20Warhound.html)
Also, there is a new video showing the staggered chase effects (https://youtu.be/oT9S9G-m_fg) - for me at least, I'm finding the beat frequency borders on hypnotic, so it's looking like it was worth the extra complexity to wire both sides independently.
So, all due credit to Van Helser for giving me the idea to take the blastgun lighting further than I'd originally planned (even if it was by misunderstanding what I planned), because it's things like this that will make the model something beyond its 28mm equivalents.
Yes, I can see that they do indeed dim as they go off and the overall effect is very pleasing. Whenever I picture a warhound in my mind, I often see this scene from Jurassic Park 3 (https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=cVA4BO2v7zs), the bit where the dinosaur is just stood watching them. Like you say, it has a hypnotic quality which could be quite menacing I think, very subtly aggressive. I've seen a lot of light effects used on models over the years but definitely nothing to match this and it's great to see it coming together so neatly.
That's an interesting coincidence, because the sound effect I've put together for Leander's warhorn uses a slowed down version of the T-Rex roar from the Jurassic Park films.
On which front, there's some positive news - I now have a suitable portable speaker for the job, so adding sound effects to games will now be a reality.
The negative news is that I can't currently get the secondary control circuit to work. :(
It seemed pretty been simple, but it's just not working right. I've ignored it for a couple of days and I'm going to look back at it again; it's possible I've just managed to fry the 556 somehow - I do have a spare, but only the one, and I'm not going to casually plug it in to find out if I've blown that one too.
My design just may be crap (I'm not absolutely certain you should really trigger one half of a 556 with the other), so I may have to just design a completely different circuit. Hopefully I fix it one way or the other, but if I plain can't figure it out in the next day or three, I may consider omitting it. It'd be a shame, but I can't keep getting held up on this.
Minor news is that there has been a slight change to the primary control circuit, which now has a phase lock switch that means that both sides of the array can be kept in sync with each other if I so choose. I probably won't use it most of the time, but it might look better in photographs, where the effect of the beat frequency would be lost.
Yes!
While I've not yet converted it into a soldered and complete circuit, I've solved at least some of the voltage control problem. The problem was the relatively low impedance of the 556's internal voltage divider, so the high impedance source I was supplying to the voltage control point was like expecting a glass of water to make a lake deeper.
If rather than supplying a voltage, I instead adjust the internal voltage divider by switching in an external resistor, everything starts working very nicely. Switch in the external resistor increases the threshold voltage, the timing capacitors have to charge over a larger range and the whole thing runs at slow speed. Switch it out, and the threshold voltage drops (slowed by an additional external lag capacitor), the timing capacitors charge over a smaller range and the chase effect accelerates.
Unfortunately, the lag capacitor really needs to be about 20-50 uF (10 uF has too little lag, 100 uF has too much), and most of my caps in that range are rated for about 300V and are therefore about twenty times the size needed. But that's a solvable problem, so we're getting closer.
Does that mean you'll need to order in some smaller capacitors? If I may ask, how much do all these various parts cost?
I've been furnished with a few more or less suitable caps by friends/family, and tests are looking alright. Ideally I'd still like to source a new part in order to minimise the possibility of parts failure (I've a feeling some of the parts I've been given might be half a century old), and I may well hit up eBay for that. There's doubtless a listing or ten that's doing a few suitable caps for 99p with free postage.
However, the automatic frequency control is working. However for a reason I cannot fathom, the flash effect is not and once again the right half of the second 556 is constantly on, rather than just pulsing briefly. Hopefully, it's something fairly easy to fix, a simple wiring error or the like, but I'll wait on a video/picture update until I've got it sorted.
Quote from: Kallidor on April 08, 2015, 12:00:55 AMIf I may ask, how much do all these various parts cost?
Most parts are individually a few pence, but in multiples with spares and leftovers (not all of which are ultimately useful, such as offcuts of stripboard) it can end up more than that implies.
Each module in the LED array is about 31 pence (17p for the LED, 2p for the transistor, 9p for the cap, 1p for each of the three resistors), but that needs to be multiplied by at least twenty before plus the board.
But still, not staggeringly expensive - the most costly part here, other than the stripboard, is the TLC556 timer ICs at £0.66 a go (a bit more expensive than the NE spec of the 556, but works better on these voltages). I haven't worked out the exact parts break down, but a ballpark guess is that there'll be £20 worth of electronics in the Blastgun.
Finally, after a lot of faffing about, I have the secondary control circuit.
(http://images.dakkadakka.com/gallery/2015/4/8/703051_sm-54mm%2C%20Circuit%2C%20Inquisitor%2C%20Leander%2C%20LED%2C%20Lighting%2C%20Titan%2C%20Warhound.jpg) (http://www.dakkadakka.com/gallery/703051-54mm%2C%20Circuit%2C%20Inquisitor%2C%20Leander%2C%20LED%2C%20Lighting%2C%20Titan%2C%20Warhound.html)
My original circuit diagrams used both sides of the 556, but my book of digital electronics gave me some very unhelpful advice about how to trigger it in monostable mode and it wasn't working. I pulled all the unnecessary components for the second side and re-cut the board a little shorter. In theory, I could order in a 555 and rebuild it a bit smaller, but it's not worth the trouble.
(http://images.dakkadakka.com/gallery/2015/4/8/703052_sm-54mm%2C%20Circuit%2C%20Inquisitor%2C%20Leander%2C%20LED%2C%20Lighting%2C%20Titan%2C%20Warhound.jpg) (http://www.dakkadakka.com/gallery/703052-54mm%2C%20Circuit%2C%20Inquisitor%2C%20Leander%2C%20LED%2C%20Lighting%2C%20Titan%2C%20Warhound.html)
Instead of the second side of the 556, I conjured together the above, which pieces together three different transistor types - a NPN that turns on when the output from the secondary 556 goes high - this charges the capacitor, and a PNP that turns on when the output goes low, discharging the capacitor through a high current NPN, turning it and its LEDs on.
(http://images.dakkadakka.com/gallery/2015/4/8/703053_sm-54mm%2C%20Circuit%2C%20Inquisitor%2C%20Leander%2C%20LED%2C%20Lighting%2C%20Titan%2C%20Warhound.jpg) (http://www.dakkadakka.com/gallery/703053-54mm%2C%20Circuit%2C%20Inquisitor%2C%20Leander%2C%20LED%2C%20Lighting%2C%20Titan%2C%20Warhound.html)
There are four of these arrays that sit around the ends of the accelerators. They're not as bright as I'd originally planned to use, but I ordered the wrong LEDs, so whoops - they should do anyway.
And then there's a video of the overall effect (https://youtu.be/w5zGO9dOXuU).
There's a mite more work to be done, but I know all the important dimensions, so I can start to assemble the main framework for the blastgun now.
Right, lots of effort, not much progress recently.
I'm working on the clear plastic accelerators for the Plasma Blastgun, and I probably picked the wrong way of doing them. I probably should have done a short section of them, then cast it up in clear resin a few times and pieced all that together.
Instead, I chose to do it all by hand. This is an early stage of cutting:
(http://images.dakkadakka.com/gallery/2015/4/12/704508_sm-54mm%2C%20Inquisitor%2C%20Leander%2C%20Plasma%20Blastgun%2C%20Titan%2C%20Warhound.jpg) (http://www.dakkadakka.com/gallery/704508-54mm%2C%20Inquisitor%2C%20Leander%2C%20Plasma%20Blastgun%2C%20Titan%2C%20Warhound.html)
And many hours later, eighty small pieces of plastic have been bevelled and glued together:
(http://images.dakkadakka.com/gallery/2015/4/12/704509_sm-54mm%2C%20Inquisitor%2C%20Leander%2C%20Plasma%20Blastgun%2C%20Titan%2C%20Warhound.jpg) (http://www.dakkadakka.com/gallery/704509-54mm%2C%20Inquisitor%2C%20Leander%2C%20Plasma%20Blastgun%2C%20Titan%2C%20Warhound.html)
This isn't the final stage yet, as I still have to cut the back face flat and drill holes for the LEDs to fit into, but I'm hoping that it's most of the work out of the way. Hoping, but I will not be surprised if the pieces fall comes apart when I'm drilling, even if I've brutally clamped them in a vice.
However, initial impressions of how it'll look with the LEDs in there aren't too bad.
I'm slightly surprised that you can build all that for such a reasonable amount.
Anyway, the flash effect is excellent, very impressive indeed. I liked the effect when it was unsynchronised but I think it makes more sense to be synced but then it is two separate barrels isn't it so, yeah, I guess it works either way.
I don't envy you having to make all those squares but at least at this scale you have something that is more easily handled, hopefully, like you say, they will all stay glued but I have experience of things ungluing and then flying around on the drill so touch wood. I can clearly visualise how the light effect will work when it all comes together, it'll be pretty spectacular I'm sure.
They didn't stay glued, damn it. After they fell apart several times, I gritted my teeth, prised them apart, and went for superglue instead.
Given the part is translucent, superglue wasn't really a problem (while it doesn't always dry clear, it was originally discovered by mistake during an attempt to make a clear plastic for gun sights) from that perspective...
... no, the problem with it is that the plastic is PVC. And as can be demonstrated from the swarf from when I drilled it out later on...
(http://images.dakkadakka.com/gallery/2015/4/15/705244_sm-Complications%2C%20Problems%2C%20Swarf%2C%20Work%20In%20Progress.jpg) (http://www.dakkadakka.com/gallery/705244-Complications%2C%20Problems%2C%20Swarf%2C%20Work%20In%20Progress.html)
... rather than breaking off into lots of little fragments (as you'd reasonably expect, given I was drilling in "between" the layers), it's all come out in neat spirals because superglue practically fuses PVC together. What's less apparent is that this bond takes about half a second. In other words, no second chances.
As such, while I did put together a jig to help me keep things lined up, the parts have come out slightly less than perfect, given there's no possibility for adjustment.
However, the parts have been cut and drilled, so now the LEDs can actually be slotted into their arrays...
(http://images.dakkadakka.com/gallery/2015/4/15/705245_sm-54mm%2C%20Circuit%2C%20Inquisitor%2C%20Leander%2C%20LED%2C%20Plasma%20Blastgun%2C%20Titan%2C%20Warhound.jpg) (http://www.dakkadakka.com/gallery/705245-54mm%2C%20Circuit%2C%20Inquisitor%2C%20Leander%2C%20LED%2C%20Plasma%20Blastgun%2C%20Titan%2C%20Warhound.html)
(Video some other time, sorry, it was too late at night to do it by the time I'd finished working).
Unless I feel like some more cutting and drilling to narrow the parts down a little more, it does mean the Blastgun is going to be a few millimetres wider than my original plans (the LED bank is slightly larger than originally hoped, which has widened the overall result), but given that it's already established in Leander's fluff (http://www.the-conclave.co.uk/forum/index.php?topic=2528.0) (although there's more of that yet to come) that the Solemne forge worlds started to diverge from the exact details of Mars Pattern designs during the Moirae Schism, I'm not feeling too guilty. True Mars pattern would have been a little less square than this anyway (but would have been a lot harder to cut right - cutting consistent curved bevels? No thanks).
Quote from: Kallidor on April 13, 2015, 01:03:17 AMI'm slightly surprised that you can build all that for such a reasonable amount.
Well, we live in an electronic world. An unbelievable amount of time, work and research has gone into making each and every component in this smaller, more reliable and more efficient - that they can afford to do all of that work in order to make transistors cost 2 pence a piece shows just how many of them they sell.
QuoteI liked the effect when it was unsynchronised but I think it makes more sense to be synced but then it is two separate barrels isn't it so, yeah, I guess it works either way.
It will be adjustable whenever, so it's not an important decision. Ultimately though, it's really just going to be about what looks most impressive at the time. I'm content for artistic licence to take priority if it has to.
Well only the very end (on the left) square, nearside looks ever so slightly out of true, but who cares because it looks awesome!!
Will you carry on working with the electronics or, now that this has reached this stage, is it back to regular modelling?
Beyond a few diodes and capacitors I'll be adding to manage the power supply, I don't know how much more electronics I could really still add. The Bolter is motorised and the Blastgun is filled to the gills with timers, counters and switching.
I am working on sound, but that'll be done from a tablet - having it onboard is unnecessary, is harder to control, and adds to the weight and power drain.
The most I can really think of would be a few other light pulsing effects, but I think overdoing flickering LEDs could be both overwhelming and crass.
QuoteWell only the very end (on the left) square, nearside looks ever so slightly out of true, but who cares because it looks awesome!!
That's not really the mistake - in one, the pieces aren't quite parallel to the barrel axis (if you look from the side) , and other has a slight bulge in the side (if you look down from the top). However, it's good enough that it takes fairly close inspection to spot...
Update time...
(http://images.dakkadakka.com/gallery/2015/4/16/705661_sm-54mm%2C%20Circuit%2C%20Inquisitor%2C%20Leander%2C%20Plasma%20Blastgun%2C%20Titan%2C%20Warhound.jpg) (http://www.dakkadakka.com/gallery/705661-54mm%2C%20Circuit%2C%20Inquisitor%2C%20Leander%2C%20Plasma%20Blastgun%2C%20Titan%2C%20Warhound.html)
This is a large part of the underlying framework of the blastgun - it doesn't yet have the curved outer armour of the Mars Pattern, nor the muzzle heat shield, but most of the skeleton is there. You can see how the main arrays and primary control circuit have been fitted in...
(http://images.dakkadakka.com/gallery/2015/4/16/705660_sm-54mm%2C%20Circuit%2C%20Inquisitor%2C%20Leander%2C%20Plasma%20Blastgun%2C%20Titan%2C%20Warhound.jpg) (http://www.dakkadakka.com/gallery/705660-54mm%2C%20Circuit%2C%20Inquisitor%2C%20Leander%2C%20Plasma%20Blastgun%2C%20Titan%2C%20Warhound.html)
... and here's where the secondary circuit goes. Fitting the electronics in has been more of a squeeze than I anticipated, but there is room for all of it.
I'm likely to be held up a little from here on while I wait for an order of rubber sheet to help finish the ball joint (as it needs something to help grip it), but I can find other parts of the model to work on instead. It's not like there's nothing else to do... :P
(http://images.dakkadakka.com/gallery/2015/4/16/705662_sm-54mm%2C%20Inquisitor%2C%20Leander%2C%20Titan%2C%20Warhound.jpg) (http://www.dakkadakka.com/gallery/705662-54mm%2C%20Inquisitor%2C%20Leander%2C%20Titan%2C%20Warhound.html)
With a 28mm Rhino for scale, here's where the upper body is at the moment.
And for giggles, here's a 3D version.
(http://images.dakkadakka.com/gallery/2015/4/16/705663_mb-54mm%2C%20Inquisitor%2C%20Leander%2C%20Titan%2C%20Warhound.jpg) (http://www.dakkadakka.com/gallery/705663-54mm%2C%20Inquisitor%2C%20Leander%2C%20Titan%2C%20Warhound.html)
Long time, no updates... well, this is definitely not a promise of imminent progress, but it is something.
I suppose it's time to admit that, for a project I've been (slowly) working on for more than five years, I still don't know who Princeps Helane Rogen is. I've had two rather different concepts floating around in my head for some time, and it's only really now that I'm starting to try and decide between them.
An interesting part of Principes for me is that, given the titanic (pun most definitely intended) strength of will required and the scarcity of suitable candidates, they have to be recruited from across the entire Imperium and can thus come from any walk of life. (The fluff seems to suggest a rarity in the same broad region as Pariahs).
With their broad backgrounds, strong will, indispensability and the fact the Collegio Titanicus have to take the candidates they get, my thinking is that while the official Forge World models might reflect some of those Principes (probably mostly those recruited from forge worlds in the first place), a huge proportion of the candidates will break that mould one way or another.
While I may do a more generic Princeps in the future to allow Leander to stand in for other titans (when her involvement in the story would be out of place or undesirable), it's not a look that suits Helane in my head.
The two core concepts as I have them now, complete with some probably not-quite-final art (may be subject to extra shoulder-pads, useless gubbins or more extensive re-draws):
Firstly, a woman of (space-)Hispanic ethnicity, with short hair and a Matrix-like array of body ports that form the basis of her interface with Leander.
This version comes from a military background (although whether as a Guardswoman or Naval armswoman is still up in the air) and is still fairly well built. Attire is military trousers, a liquid-cooling vest and a lightweight flak vest.
There's some game elements here too - I suspect that in many of the scenarios she'll be appearing in as herself there's a good chance someone will take a shot at her, and her past history should stop her being too easy to take out (or too hard to protect).
(http://i772.photobucket.com/albums/yy3/MarcoSkoll/Artwork/WIP/Helane_WIP_1_768.jpg)
The other version comes from (space-)African ethnicity, with her hair replaced by an array of data-braids that form her interface.
She's the granddaughter of a Rogue Trader (or possibly one of his high-ranking crew), and has inherited all of that independent spirit. (The impressive singing voice, however, is all hers).
Her attire is somewhere around the more colourful end of cyber-punk - some hard-to-describe mix of shoulderless dress, long gloves, leggings and boots.
She won't be incompetent in game either, although she'll weighted a bit more towards the mental/social end of that scale than the physical competence of the Hispanic version.
(http://i772.photobucket.com/albums/yy3/MarcoSkoll/Artwork/WIP/Helane2_WIP_1_768.jpg)
Thoughts and feedback are appreciated!
I'm liking the (space) Hispanic character. Getting a real Pvt. Vasquez vibe off of her. She sounds like she'd be a lot of fun in-game and strays far enough from "typical" (as typical as Principes are I suppose) to be interesting. Plus the picture has a great feel.
Your second choice looks like a great character concept too. I suppose that Principes would get a lot of leeway in terms of personal dress and the like. They're rare enough to have tons of leverage based solely on that. In terms of battlefield ability they're important enough in their role that they need to be tacticians unto themselves. I think the concept is sound and I really like the idea of a Principe that totally defies expectations that way. I'm just a bigger fan of the first idea :) Don't abandon this one though, she looks like she'd make a great character.
Ditto.
My preference is definitely for the Military type, but I think both ideas have merit.
The first one can be taken from any 54mm available soldier models (surely there must be a few that would actually fit? I think I saw at least one (debatably sculpted - you'd probably need a headswap, and maybe some hair sculpting, and if you want to show off the arms you'd have to swap those out too) that would work.
Although, saying that I think if you grabbed that helmeted Mass Effect lady I dug up (the one you said would be good for a bodyglove) that would give you a perfect base. You'd still need a head and arm swap though.
I think female Shepherd model (same ebay seller/company) has some spare heads - one might work as a basis?
Arms will be difficult though.
http://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/322014943504?_trksid=p2060353.m2749.l2649&ssPageName=STRK%3AMEBIDX%3AIT
Femshep example
Nevermind it looks like I got the last female shepard model. It comes with a helmeted head, and then two with hair - one could have the hair carved off and then short hair resculpted?
http://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/FemShep-MassEffect-resin-souvenir-collectible-figurine-54mm-european-head-/301827699924?hash=item46465534d4:g:W5EAAOSw14xWJkQ1
Bit expensive just for a head ???
http://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/54mm-Cerberus-Phantom-MassEffect-resin-figure-with-acrylic-base-/301748872138?hash=item4641a263ca:g:Y44AAOSw5VFWHSFv
Cerberus base?
If you can find one of these it might work?
http://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/182024903381?_trksid=p2060353.m2749.l2649&ssPageName=STRK%3AMEBIDX%3AIT
Not sure if this will work.
http://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/54mm-Isabela-pirate-girl-resin-figure-Dragon-Age-miniature-/291196216141?hash=item43cca5a34d:g:CMAAAOSwVL1WDo7A
Possible base for second character? Looks reasonable, ish.
http://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/54-mm-Ladytron-Lady-Cyborg-figure-with-acrylic-base-NorthStarModels-/291375251499?hash=item43d751802b:g:pjUAAOSwtlhWFYMt
Not sure.
http://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/54-mm-Female-Executioner-figure-with-acrylic-base-NorthStarModels-/301518999546?hash=item4633eecffa:g:pSwAAOSwhcJWHRXZ
Ditto
http://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/54-mm-Battle-Nun-figure-with-resin-base-NorthStarModels-/291375251684?hash=item43d75180e4:g:EXAAAOSwx~JWFTUN
again, ditto.
http://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/286-Tin-54mm-Toy-Soldier-Roman-Amazon-female-gladiator-/262292382577?hash=item3d11d82371:g:YYsAAOSwhcJWLTfB
As above
Black dog is a bit "maybe" and a bit "meh".
The facial sculpts aren't great, and it's 1:35 rather than 1:32.
http://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/Black-Dog-1-35-Israeli-women-soldiers-set-N-2-resin-figures-/191813462822?hash=item2ca8f92b26:g:8LkAAOSwUuFWzt-F
http://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/Black-Dog-1-35-IDF-Israeli-Woman-Soldiers-Set-2-Figures-F35091-/181284256578?hash=item2a35623b42:g:TnAAAOxyUrZSsajg
http://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/1-35-BLACKDOG-U-S-Woman-Soldiers-in-Iraq-resin-kit-/121800935119?hash=item1c5be6c6cf:g:H8EAAOxygPtS9QZI
http://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/Black-Dog-F35134-1-35-US-Woman-Soldier-Soldier-With-Dog-/141766273352?hash=item2101eda948:g:3GsAAOSwyQtV6uSR
These are all pretty much the most optimistic results for female sculpts of the "not pegaso, and not andrea" variety, as both pegaso and andrea (and a couple others) largely seem to focus on very busy (and flaunty) fantasy female sculpts. Many of which usually have too many details sculpted directly into the model requiring extra work for cleanup/alteration.
Quote from: Alyster Wick on March 08, 2016, 03:15:55 AM
I'm liking the (space) Hispanic character. Getting a real Pvt. Vasquez vibe off of her. She sounds like she'd be a lot of fun in-game and strays far enough from "typical" (as typical as Principes are I suppose) to be interesting. Plus the picture has a great feel.
The Hispanic version is probably my preferred option at the moment, but I thought I'd throw them both out there for consideration.
The African version is actually the original concept and I do still like it, but the idea of a previously-military Princeps has been growing on me for several reasons (most of which I'm too tired to properly articulate, so bleurgh).
QuoteI suppose that Principes would get a lot of leeway in terms of personal dress and the like. They're rare enough to have tons of leverage based solely on that. In terms of battlefield ability they're important enough in their role that they need to be tacticians unto themselves. I think the concept is sound and I really like the idea of a Principe that totally defies expectations that way.
That's pretty much the thinking. (On the other hand, I suspect that Moderatii are probably more conformist - given the lower standards required, I suppose that a greater proportion of them come from forge worlds).
In Helane's case specifically, I think an unconventional appearance would help convey her being a bit of a maverick - not necessarily in an out-of-control way, but given she's involved with the Inquisition, she has to handle some rather "unconventional" mission objectives (calling for a certain degree of flexibility and/or initiative) and very complicated politics; she has to be able to assess situations rather than sheepishly obeying any command any Inquisitor shouts at her.
QuoteYour second choice looks like a great character concept too. I'm just a bigger fan of the first idea. Don't abandon this one though, she looks like she'd make a great character.
I'll be keeping whichever version I don't go with on file for a later stage. Likely not as a Princeps, given the relatively limited need for a second named one in game, but there are definitely alternative uses for either.
Quote from: mcjomar on March 08, 2016, 09:44:14 AMThe first one can be taken from any 54mm available soldier models (surely there must be a few that would actually fit?)
While I appreciate the attempt to help, the model isn't going to be a problem; I've sculpted the vast majority of my current 54mm player characters*. (My 28mm PCs instead tend to be excuses to use models I like, although there's still a lot of sculpting).
* As it is, I am thinking of Helane as a player character, even I'll only normally be using her as part of GMing a scenario. While Principes have the potential to be really interesting characters, there aren't that many opportunities to roleplay one, so I'll be taking the chance when I can.
Elevating the recent talk building about powerful characters slightly, a tiny bit of progress.
I took Leander's project box to the gaming club on Monday, and got most of the remaining "honeycomb" for the reactors finished:
(http://i772.photobucket.com/albums/yy3/MarcoSkoll/Inquisitor%20Models/Leander/IMG_3527_800.jpg)
It's probably hard to spot exactly what's been added, but if you compare to earlier photos (http://www.the-conclave.co.uk/forum/index.php?topic=1869.msg33722#msg33722), you can see that the top section overlapping the torso has been added in.
(http://i772.photobucket.com/albums/yy3/MarcoSkoll/Inquisitor%20Models/Leander/IMG_3528_800.jpg)
(http://i772.photobucket.com/albums/yy3/MarcoSkoll/Inquisitor%20Models/Leander/IMG_3529_800.jpg)
You can also see the wiring loom that's been added to run through the reactors to provide power to the various lighting/motors in the weapon arms, although that's been done for a while.
Not sure if I mentioned it before, but these feed to 3.5mm jack sockets (like most smaller headphones use) so that the weapon arms can be disconnected. This will theoretically allow alternative weapon arms (e.g. Turbo-laser Destructor or Inferno gun) to be made and mounted instead, although I'm doubtful if I'll ever do that; as I've said before, the only real difference between Titan weapons in Inquisitor is whether the target turns into ash, vapour or bloody chunks, and the plasma blastgun & vulcan bolter is a classic combination that gives the option for pretty lights and spinny barrels.
Still, it doesn't hurt to plan ahead.
This gets me close to being able to shape the final armour over the reactors (one of the challenges of making a Mars Pattern is making these curved shapes - probably the reason there are very few scratch-builds out there), although I may have to leave actually fitting those until very late on (as I may need to shove lead shot into the reactor honeycomb depending on how well she balances).
~~~~~
Two more things:
1) I'm now nicely set on the military "Hispanic" version of Helane (see last page), although I will put the "African" design to one side to be used later.
I'm still fine-tuning her background and need to think more about her moderatii, but at least I know where I'm going.
2) And while checking the parts before taking them to the club, I amused myself by precariously balancing them for a test pose to get more idea of the end result:
(http://i772.photobucket.com/albums/yy3/MarcoSkoll/Inquisitor%20Models/Leander/IMG_3524_800.jpg)
Should give you a broad idea of just how big she is.
Well........... Looks like Banus needs to bring some Melta Bombs :D
It wouldn't do him a massive amount of good. ;)
In game, Leander will be effectively invincible, but also won't generally directly target the characters unless they're daft enough to present a threat; for the players, she's something to work around (or with) rather than take head on. The invulnerability is kind of the point of her as both a character and plot element. She's supposed to be a war engine entirely capable of turning the course of a conflict, but she wouldn't be very convincing in that role or worth petitioning to have on your side if a couple of overenthusiastic PCs could easily pose a threat to her.
Should anyone be rash enough to try and test her might, she will have rules - both a "realistic" profile* and some guidelines for if I do want to give player characters a ghost of a chance of surviving a fight with her.
* Hypothetical and not intended for serious use, but it makes for a good point of reference, and is kind of fun from an academic point of view.
Toughness-wise, she has up to twelve injury levels on some locations, a "hardened" rule that halves the effectiveness of armour piercing attacks, and no armour values under 20.
In terms of firepower, the plasma blastgun throws out numbers like Blast 6, Dam 4D10 Tearing(2), and even her warhorn can be used as a weapon in a pinch. (It can be obnoxiously loud).