The Conclave

The Forbidden Texts - Dark Magenta => Dark Magenta => Topic started by: Molotov on August 17, 2010, 11:49:45 PM

Title: 'A Tale of Four Warbands'
Post by: Molotov on August 17, 2010, 11:49:45 PM
Ferran suggested a 'Tale of Four Warbands' in an earlier thread, and I wanted to start a thread to discuss it.

I think the idea has a lot of potential, providing as it does a steady stream of articles for Dark Magenta. But beyond that, it provides readers with an insight into the approach taken by four different people to create their models and to craft characters. It could prove highly informative for those who're new to (or daunted by) Inquisitor.

I guess what we ought to do is discuss the perameters of any such project. What would we want to get from it? Some people have mentioned the idea of the completed warbands participating in a battle report, but that precludes Americans from participating. How long would the project run for? The original White Dwarf Tale of Four Gamers had them updating monthly with the progress on their armies. Would we produce a monthly status update? It's possible that doing so would help people form an attachment to the project, and perhaps for the hobbyists writing - they would feel somewhat more included in the project.

I guess I'm rambling a little, and other peoples' opinions are needed to stimulate the discussion.

Title: Re: 'A Tale of Four Warbands'
Post by: Kresten on August 18, 2010, 12:56:42 AM
I think this idea is a really good one and I agree it has a lot of potential.

In terms of the title, would it be a case of four inter-woven warbands, as in their story including each other in a major way? Or separate characters who then just end up in a battle somehow?

I think it would be best to go with a monthly installment, going through all of the p+m, background etc in one would be a bit big for one issue.
Title: Re: 'A Tale of Four Warbands'
Post by: MarcoSkoll on August 18, 2010, 03:18:45 AM
Well, I'd be interested, either reading or contributing.

The obvious problem with me contributing would be that the differences of opinion between Ferran and I (which will not be discussed here, thank you) would probably prevent both of us being part of the same project - and I'm assuming that as he proposed it, he'll be contributing.

It's unfortunate, as showcasing different approaches to development and production is half the point of To4G, but there are practical restraints to work around.

~~~~~

Even if I'm out for those reasons, I am still tempted to write a piece on my methods of character generation - by which I probably mean "How to create a background so long almost no-one will read it". ::)
But to that, I'd argue that I don't write long backgrounds for other people - I write them for me, because I want to feel I really know this character.

I know there are people who like the same approach - there being one such example immediately above me. (Yes, I did notice that you pilfered the framework* for Kresten's background from my Jax Lynn thread. ;))

*Although I have to admit I originally stole the basics from Koval, back when I was involved in an RP on the last 'Clave. The fact the version you used had certain additions/alterations which I've made since to suit my specific tastes however... that was a bit of a give away.
Don't get me wrong though - if it works for you, feel free to use it
Title: Re: 'A Tale of Four Warbands'
Post by: Charax on August 18, 2010, 06:29:07 AM
"4" Warbands seems a little restrictive, so how about this:

 - we pick a start month.
 - pick a monthly budget (this'll be where international participation becomes an issue, perhaps seperate , $ and Euro budgets?).
 - anyone who wants to participate starts a thread tagged [To4W] or something like that - one thread per person, so things are easy to follow.

Not sure what forum would be most appropriate. P&M maybe.

4 models per warband, running until...no idea, suppose that depends on the budget.
Title: Re: 'A Tale of Four Warbands'
Post by: Molotov on August 18, 2010, 11:29:12 AM
Quote
In terms of the title, would it be a case of four inter-woven warbands, as in their story including each other in a major way? Or separate characters who then just end up in a battle somehow?

I don't think the warbands would need to be 'interwoven', no more than any of the warbands were in White Dwarf battle reports. And that only becomes an issue if we're actually going to have a battle report at the end of the project.


Quote
Well, I'd be interested, either reading or contributing.

The obvious problem with me contributing would be that the differences of opinion between Ferran and I (which will not be discussed here, thank you) would probably prevent both of us being part of the same project - and I'm assuming that as he proposed it, he'll be contributing.

It's unfortunate, as showcasing different approaches to development and production is half the point of To4G, but there are practical restraints to work around.

I wouldn't think that personal differences would preclude participation in the project. That is, unless there would be a final battle report. In the main, Hobbyist A would write his piece, then Hobbyist B would write his, and the two would not be in actual contact. If anything, differences between posters would benefit the project - your recent miniatures have been entirely sculpted, and that illustrates one approach of creating Inquisitor models in an age where the 54mm GW range has diminished drastically.



Quote
Even if I'm out for those reasons, I am still tempted to write a piece on my methods of character generation - by which I probably mean "How to create a background so long almost no-one will read it". Roll Eyes
But to that, I'd argue that I don't write long backgrounds for other people - I write them for me, because I want to feel I really know this character.

Could be an interesting article!


Quote
"4" Warbands seems a little restrictive, so how about this:

 - we pick a start month.
 - pick a monthly budget (this'll be where international participation becomes an issue, perhaps seperate , $ and Euro budgets?).
 - anyone who wants to participate starts a thread tagged [To4W] or something like that - one thread per person, so things are easy to follow.

Not sure what forum would be most appropriate. P&M maybe.

4 models per warband, running until...no idea, suppose that depends on the budget.

Interesting points, though I'm inclined to disagree with you somewhat. Forums like Warseer have threads called "The Tale of X Gamers" - but what I'm suggesting is that we have four users who are able to write at length and to provide high-quality photographs. That immediately narrows down the selection. This project is intended to benefit Dark Magenta, not the Conclave. We can't have twenty people in the project - not if we want to create coherent articles.

The thread Macabre started here (http://www.the-conclave.co.uk/forum/index.php?topic=985) seems like something that benefits the Conclave and would allow everybody to participate. But if we can get a "Tale of 4 Warbands" going, it's something that can get touted around other forums, such as Warseer, and can get publicity. It's not just a "Hey, come and join in on The Conclave!"

Title: Re: 'A Tale of Four Warbands'
Post by: Kresten on August 18, 2010, 02:31:19 PM
(Yes, I did notice that you pilfered the framework* for Kresten's background from my Jax Lynn thread. ;))
[/i][/size]

 ;D indeed I did, I did write a bit of a disclaimer and thankyou! I think the headings work well and after all, imitation is the best form of flattery.

Seen as i'm fairly far into a new war band im going to start having a go at some article writing, then Ill email it or whatever to whoever.

This is going to be really good i think, DM could use more p+m and background stuff I think.
Title: Re: 'A Tale of Four Warbands'
Post by: MarcoSkoll on August 18, 2010, 03:30:24 PM
I wouldn't think that personal differences would preclude participation in the project.
I'm not sure you realise exactly how bad things ended up between us. It has been a while now, so perhaps there's a chance to recover things, but I don't know.

Quote
That is, unless there would be a final battle report.
Well, I think that we should try to, as far as possible - after all, most To4G do include battle reports along the way. Obviously, the trouble of getting several people from all over the country to meet up to play games would however make more than one battle report quite a lot of work.

Quote
If anything, differences between posters would benefit the project - your recent miniatures have been entirely sculpted, and that illustrates one approach of creating Inquisitor models in an age where the 54mm GW range has diminished drastically.
That was something I was thinking. I know I'm not the only sculptor on this forum - but then again, on the:

model<---------->character

sliding scale, I'm almost always right up at the right end, making the model to fit whatever character I've envisioned with minimal compromise (even if a lot of the time I nick the appearance of that character from a piece of artwork...)

Obviously, it would be good to showcase a wide range of character creation methods, so it would be great to at least have someone of that kind of mindset in the project, even if it's not me...

Quote
Could be an interesting article!
Actually, that reminds me. There's something I've half written on a "Character Motivations" method I use.

It's similar in basic principle to 3rd Ed D&D's "Alignment system", but more intricate and designed to better get the measure of a character's core morals (although it is just a roleplay aid - it's not actually part of the rules in the same way as it is in D&D). I mean to finish it and offer it to DM, but I keep forgetting.
Title: Re: 'A Tale of Four Warbands'
Post by: Molotov on August 18, 2010, 03:41:33 PM
Quote
I'm not sure you realise exactly how bad things ended up between us.

I remember the thread - but again, unless the project does actually end up with the participants meeting in person, it really doesn't matter how much you like, love, or hate the other members. There would be almost no reason to communicate, as the participants would simply be sending their writing and pictures to a single person who would collate it into an article.

Quote
Well, I think that we should try to, as far as possible - after all, most To4G do include battle reports along the way. Obviously, the trouble of getting several people from all over the country to meet up to play games would however make more than one battle report quite a lot of work.

That's the thing. Also, as mentioned earlier, it precludes the non-British from participating. Whilst I'd assume the majority of the forum's members are British, it seems somewhat unfair to exclude others on that basis. One option is that we set a timescale (say, six months, allowing us six articles) and then if possible, some of the TO4W members can meet up for a battle report after that time to give us a fitting "coda".

I mean, this is still in the discussion phase, so the more people comment, the better-flesh out this can get!
Title: Re: 'A Tale of Four Warbands'
Post by: Heroka Vendile on August 18, 2010, 05:22:52 PM
Of course, people can still be from around the world participating in this, and a big final meet-up isn't essential.

If a target is set to try and finish one character each per article, then the Gamers can give additional reports within the article as to how their new creations have faired in any games so far, as these games provide further character to the model and my in some cases provoke a remodelling if the owner wishes to be faithful to a games result.

Also each of the four participants can be aiming for different targets:

On another note - I would seriously suggest you have a months leading time minimum. As in, the four participants are agreed upon, the format is finalised, you get to work, finish the first article, get well into or complete the second months article and only then start publishing them monthly - effectively giving a months delay, this allows for any hold-ups or issues to be dealt with easily in the months breathing space between "month 1" being completed and "article about month 1" being put online. This should also help ensure a dependable monthly release.
Title: Re: 'A Tale of Four Warbands'
Post by: MarcoSkoll on August 18, 2010, 05:25:02 PM
I remember the thread...
There was rather more than one thread it derailed. But for fear of setting things off again (we're currently under a tentative agreement where we don't talk to one another), I'm not going to discuss it any further.

Quote
That's the thing. Also, as mentioned earlier, it precludes the non-British from participating.
Regrettably yes - but it really would be good if we could get all four people together for a game day, because then you could cover scenario design as part of it. Each person pens and GMs a scenario for the other three - which would also give DM a very healthy four battle reports.

That would demand four willing British participants, but if anyone elsewhere in the world wants to get involved, perhaps a "Fifth Gamer" series can be run at the same time, which could cover such things as gathering a gaming group if you're not lucky enough to be able to attend WHW events.

That said, my experience of trying to play four games in a day at WHW is that they're pretty short games. Perhaps if we hunt for three British players and a foreigner. That way we can cover gaming in the UK, gaming elsewhere, and then have a three game day at WHW with the British players, each player GMing a game for the other two.
Longer games with only two players would be considerably less hectic than shorter three player games.
Title: Re: 'A Tale of Four Warbands'
Post by: Molotov on August 18, 2010, 06:05:34 PM
Quote
Also each of the four participants can be aiming for different targets:

    * A & B want new warbands to take to the next INQ GT / Spring Conclave meet,
    * C wants to create new warbands in time for a long campaign arc that has been planned for their respective gaming group,
    * D just wants to use it as an opportunity to motivate them into creating a warband that's a bit different to their normal choice.

I actually really like this in the sense that it gives an interesting focus to the piece.


Quote
On another note - I would seriously suggest you have a months leading time minimum. As in, the four participants are agreed upon, the format is finalised, you get to work, finish the first article, get well into or complete the second months article and only then start publishing them monthly - effectively giving a months delay, this allows for any hold-ups or issues to be dealt with easily in the months breathing space between "month 1" being completed and "article about month 1" being put online. This should also help ensure a dependable monthly release.

This is definitely something I'd given some thought to. I agree with a leading time, as it provides people with the breathing room necessary to put out a finished article. Whoever's collating the four hobbyists' writing into a readable article would also have time to do their work.


Quote
Regrettably yes - but it really would be good if we could get all four people together for a game day, because then you could cover scenario design as part of it. Each person pens and GMs a scenario for the other three - which would also give DM a very healthy four battle reports.

That would demand four willing British participants, but if anyone elsewhere in the world wants to get involved, perhaps a "Fifth Gamer" series can be run at the same time, which could cover such things as gathering a gaming group if you're not lucky enough to be able to attend WHW events.

That said, my experience of trying to play four games in a day at WHW is that they're pretty short games. Perhaps if we hunt for three British players and a foreigner. That way we can cover gaming in the UK, gaming elsewhere, and then have a three game day at WHW with the British players, each player GMing a game for the other two.
Longer games with only two players would be considerably less hectic than shorter three player games.

I like the idea of the "Fifth Gamer", a what-to-do article for those without gaming groups seems interesting.

I was concerned by the idea of trying to play four games in one day - would it perhaps be better to play a single game, like the four-player game from White Dwarf? I see your argument regarding having four battle reports for Dark Magenta, but we could perhaps compensate with additional content somehow...
Title: Re: 'A Tale of Four Warbands'
Post by: Shannow on August 18, 2010, 06:26:53 PM
I had a thought that after these people have presented there models in DM with background etc, it might be interesting (if people were interested) to do another article on other peoples models of that character sort of like a kaede mack situation, the idea being they could practise the tips and such in the article on a specific model. Maybe a prize for the one votest the best?

Just an idea :)

Rob
Title: Re: 'A Tale of Four Warbands'
Post by: Macabre on August 18, 2010, 06:49:04 PM
How about a Tale of Six Warbands, that way you could have one to represent each of the major philosophies.
Title: Re: 'A Tale of Four Warbands'
Post by: Heroka Vendile on August 18, 2010, 08:26:12 PM
How about a Tale of Six Warbands, that way you could have one to represent each of the major philosophies.

Possibly restrictive in getting people who actually want to make s specific philosophy (i.e. could end up struggling to fill the last "left over" option). However it could work well and ensures additional variety in the warbands. Although even just applying a rule that none of the 4 warbands can be the same philosophy may be enough for this and leaves "wiggle room".
Title: Re: 'A Tale of Four Warbands'
Post by: greenstuff_gav on August 18, 2010, 10:17:21 PM
actually, this works well from an article point of view; can help explain the factions, gives room to research "average" kit and look at specific sample miniatures
Title: Re: 'A Tale of Four Warbands'
Post by: Molotov on August 18, 2010, 10:39:30 PM
Quote
(i.e. could end up struggling to fill the last "left over" option).

This was a thought that'd crossed my mind, too.


Quote
actually, this works well from an article point of view; can help explain the factions, gives room to research "average" kit and look at specific sample miniatures

Not that I want to seem like a naysayer, but it seems that this is an idea that could be teased out to form a series of articles on its own. Looking at the different philosophies, providing different characters as examples, that seems like something that could be good for Dark Magenta. Given that the DM staff have been asking for articles, it seems like that would be something desirable!

Title: Re: 'A Tale of Four Warbands'
Post by: Kresten on August 23, 2010, 03:06:48 PM
Let's get this ball rolling!

I think that the 'tale of X warbands' would be a great opportunity to show the different approaches to different aspects of making a warband. I think the best way to get started is to decide on some headings for articles and clearly define what is to be tackled in the different sections. In terms of sub-headings etc, well that would be different for each writer I think and adds to the idea of there being differing opinions/methods.

Okay so I think the headings should/could be;

Painting + modelling - explaining why you chose the conversions you did, how the modelling has helped you develop the character, how the colors of the model reflect the character etc

Background - developing realistic characters, avoiding two-dimensional media rip-offs and the desire for your character to be a 'hero' who just kicks ass and takes names. Examining the humanity and therefore flaws of your warband and how to add detail that makes all the difference.

warband, companions meshing separate lives etc - who accompanies your leader and why, tensions between them, setting up internal story arcs that may or may not affect your game/saga, remembering that not everyone is loyal/pious/honest and may have their own motivations.

anyway, just an opinion as to how things could be laid out.
Title: Re: 'A Tale of Four Warbands'
Post by: Molotov on August 23, 2010, 03:51:37 PM
My thinking is that despite the people circling this thread, getting together four people who'll be committed and can produce a decent product will limit the number of people that will participate. A tale of 4 warbands is more likely to work than a tale of 6.

I think what we need are:

- People willing to lend their time to this project.
- People willing to write accompanying text.
- People willing to create (around) 4 figures, and with the ability to document their progress.

With regards to Kresten's points, I imagine that in the first article, the four participants would spend a little bit of time talking about themselves, and then with what they're doing. Some people might have all four characters in mind from the start; some might have detailed sketches, some might not have a clue and might have to start by coming up with compelling characters. I thought what Heroka Vendile said about each participant having a "challenge", trying to do something different, that's good. It might be (like me) that it's the first time working with 54mm. It might be that you've always done puritan characters, and this time you have to do a radical. But something like that would give some interest and some "shape" to the project. In the first article, each of the participants would be able to talk about why it's a challenge for them.
Title: Re: 'A Tale of Four Warbands'
Post by: Macabre on August 23, 2010, 03:55:46 PM
How about sculpting the entire warband. That'll be challenging ;)
Title: Re: 'A Tale of Four Warbands'
Post by: Molotov on August 23, 2010, 03:59:58 PM
Well, exactly! Marco's shown that it can be done.
Title: Re: 'A Tale of Four Warbands'
Post by: Shannow on August 23, 2010, 04:07:33 PM
I would be interested in being one of the 4, though I would say that I don't think my characters or modelling are the best by a long shot, but if you can't find 4 competent people I'd enjoy participating :)

Rob
Title: Re: 'A Tale of Four Warbands'
Post by: MarcoSkoll on August 23, 2010, 06:38:11 PM
I'll happily contribute to such a project, being the lunatic I am.
Title: Re: 'A Tale of Four Warbands'
Post by: Kaled on August 30, 2010, 01:46:39 PM
I'm curious, is this still going ahead? If it is stalled is there anything I can do to help it along - I'd hate to see DM miss out on what was shaping up to be a promising article.
Title: Re: 'A Tale of Four Warbands'
Post by: Shannow on August 30, 2010, 06:47:10 PM
As I said in the other related article, are there two others conclavers, other than me an marco who would be interesting being the participants? Just thought I'd post in both and covers my bases (pun perhaps :p)

I too would not like to see this sit dead in the water.
Title: Re: 'A Tale of Four Warbands'
Post by: Kresten on August 30, 2010, 07:22:23 PM
Well I've already had a little go at some introductory writing, I think the next step would be to just decide who was doing it really.


(Puts hand up)
Title: Re: 'A Tale of Four Warbands'
Post by: Macabre on August 30, 2010, 07:28:24 PM
*shrugs* I'll have a go, its about time I sculpted Kartheim's warband.
Title: Re: 'A Tale of Four Warbands'
Post by: Heroka Vendile on August 30, 2010, 08:31:48 PM
i would make the small note that it may well be beneficial to have a "project lead" to keep tabs on everyone and do the collating of the articles? by which i mean a fifth person who takes on the role of "setting the challenge" and cracking the whip to get articles done in plenty time.
Title: Re: 'A Tale of Four Warbands'
Post by: Kaled on August 30, 2010, 10:15:42 PM
I can do that if you want...
Title: Re: 'A Tale of Four Warbands'
Post by: Kresten on August 31, 2010, 05:52:40 PM
I think with your experience you'd be the perfect candidate Kaled.
Title: Re: 'A Tale of Four Warbands'
Post by: Kaled on August 31, 2010, 07:03:24 PM
Okay, well I'll wait and see if the others agree before doing anything more - don't want to impose myself on someone else's project...
Title: Re: 'A Tale of Four Warbands'
Post by: Molotov on August 31, 2010, 07:05:56 PM
I've been away this weekend and thus I haven't had chance to comment, but I agree that this definitely shouldn't stall. I'm starting my teacher training in the next few weeks so I'm not sure whether I can participate, but I would happily be the project lead, collate (and edit) the articles and put them together into an article.

Either way, I'm glad that there's interest in this, and I would definitely like to see it progress further.
Title: Re: 'A Tale of Four Warbands'
Post by: Kaled on September 03, 2010, 01:23:57 PM
Have we got four gamers for this project? If they want to get together and decide who they want to 'moderate' the project (me, Molotov, someone else) then maybe it can get kicked off.  One thought I had was that it could climax at a Conclave event early next year - possibly the one Ruaridh is trying to organise... Just a thought.
Title: Re: 'A Tale of Four Warbands'
Post by: RobSkib on September 09, 2010, 08:25:14 PM
I'd happily be part of this as well - not sure what you'd want me to do though! I know I promised Kaled to do an article about the use of non-GW models in Inquisitor modelling, I havn't forgotten! I've just been slightly waylaid with other things. Come this weekend I'll get myself sorted out and get things rolling.
Title: Re: 'A Tale of Four Warbands'
Post by: MarcoSkoll on September 22, 2010, 05:02:14 AM
Okay, I think it's time for me to kick this.

I'm still on board with this, mostly as I need some motivation to get some of my Inquisitor projects off the ground.
I'm fine with either Kaled or Molotov as a project lead. If I have to choose, then given how much Kaled already does for Dark Magenta, perhaps it would be best to choose Molotov to save Kaled another project - but as I said, I'm not fussed. You're both intelligent individuals who I think would do a great job.

Now, can we kindly get everyone who's said they're taking part back here to actually sort it all out?
It's not really a hard project. Make warband, then talk about how you made it - hardly different to half of what we do on this forum anyway.
Title: Re: 'A Tale of Four Warbands'
Post by: Kaled on September 22, 2010, 07:22:50 AM
That's fine by me - I wasn't going to volunteer at first as I felt people might get sick of seeing my name at the top of DM articles, but then decided I'd rather that than the article not get done.  So if Molotov is still willing to take on the role, then I'm happy to stand aside.
Title: Re: 'A Tale of Four Warbands'
Post by: Molotov on September 22, 2010, 01:58:54 PM
I've got internet in the new house as of yesterday, so I should be able to collate things - I'll sit down and give it some thought.
Title: Re: 'A Tale of Four Warbands'
Post by: TheNephew on November 17, 2010, 06:05:06 PM
So...
Happening?
Or dead?
Title: Re: 'A Tale of Four Warbands'
Post by: MarcoSkoll on November 17, 2010, 07:10:51 PM
I'm still interested, but we seem to have lost all our other "gamers" - so it's currently dead.
Title: Re: 'A Tale of Four Warbands'
Post by: psycho on January 11, 2011, 01:35:05 PM
ok so threadomancy at its best....but come on guys is this gonna happen?
I know im up for it...i mean weve currently got (more probably lol) 4 gamers
Marco, Kaled, Me, Shannow, Robskib, kresten are all i can remember lol...but come on guys this would allow other INQ players to see how WE go about creating our warbands....i mean this will (hopefully) get newer INQ players to realise that stats arent supposed to be the way games are won..instead its through playing in character and using tiny lil things to help out...much like a game of Alone in the Dark (sorry played it for like a month straight now) where you have to utilize tape, a box of bullets, a plastic botlle of alchohol and a lighter to make a nice lil bomb haha!....ahem sorry back on topic...if this is going ahead then yeah please let me know...although i wont be sculpting my entire warband my minis suck at best...so at least id give readers a good laugh

kerby
Title: Re: 'A Tale of Four Warbands'
Post by: Zirone on January 11, 2011, 04:29:29 PM
I'd be interested in joining in on this as well, I currently have a warband under construction and wouldn't mind sharing my progress in an article. Although if all four spaces have been filled then i'll enjoy keeping track of everyones progress.

Z.
Title: Re: 'A Tale of Four Warbands'
Post by: MarcoSkoll on January 12, 2011, 06:10:09 AM
I have to say, this has been rather frustrating.

I've been holding back on several different warband ideas because this has gone nowhere. I've been squirrelling away all the ideas have on the basis of "I might as well wait so I can write one of these up".
If this doesn't start to go somewhere soon, I'm going to have to quit out or risk going totally stir crazy. I was actually considering seriously starting to consider sculpting eighteen models simultaneously the other day.

*Runs off screaming*

RAAAAAAAHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHhhhhHH!!!!
Title: Re: 'A Tale of Four Warbands'
Post by: psycho on January 12, 2011, 01:52:45 PM
@Marco....hahahahaha...i have a mental image of you at the next Clave....cuddling 18 different minis whilst mumbling to yourself about TO4P haha....

ahem but yeah id love for this to actually go ahead....so hows about this...we rope in one more candidate....get Kaled to officiate...and find ourselves someone to write up the reports when weve deone our drafts?
It seems this has been waylaid by all the original cast so lets reboot it again...if noone gets in contact (from the Original guys) within a week then we start again with us lot instead?

kerby
Title: Re: 'A Tale of Four Warbands'
Post by: Kaled on January 20, 2011, 05:49:23 PM
I think Marco has plans to build a new warband, or at least a few new characters for the IGT - and I'm guessing he can't be the only one.  So how about a 'Tale of x Warbands' that starts with players deciding to either expand an existing warband or build a whole new one for the IGT, talks about the creation of their background and stats and cumulates with them actually being used at the IGT.

If people are building models anyway, all they have to do is take a few pics and make a few notes along the way and then write it up at the end.  It also has the advantage of having a definite end point - 26th March - and could be good advertising for the IGT in future years as people would have some idea what to expect.
Title: Re: 'A Tale of Four Warbands'
Post by: MarcoSkoll on January 20, 2011, 07:33:38 PM
I think Marco has plans to build a new warband, or at least a few new characters for the IGT
Something like that. I've got a few options. Some are updating a model or two for old warbands, some are finally modelling ideas I've had for ages.

If there were some plan to do it up for this article, then I'd happily go with one of the new warbands (3 models plus any others I throw into the mix at the same time, rather than the 1-2 I'd be doing for the old ideas) - it would at least help me narrow down my choices!
Title: Re: 'A Tale of Four Warbands'
Post by: Kaled on January 20, 2011, 07:39:12 PM
I was also thinking, maybe it doesn't need to be restricted to warbands and PCs - maybe someone who's preparing for GMing a game by creating NPCs and a scenario, or maybe some interesting terrain?  A bit different to the original concept, but it'd still be a story of x number of gamers preparing for a game - and as Inquisitor uses a GM it makes sense to include that aspect as well (especially if there aren't four people planning to make PCs).
Title: Re: 'A Tale of Four Warbands'
Post by: DapperAnarchist on January 20, 2011, 07:42:12 PM
Well, I have an idea for a small warband, and have the legs and weapons already, so would be able to involve myself, if there's still a space?
Title: Re: 'A Tale of Four Warbands'
Post by: Kaled on January 20, 2011, 07:47:57 PM
As far as I know there's nothing but space.

I suggest everyone who's interested writes something - if by some chance there ends up being more than enough material for one article, it can always be split in two.  Maybe one around the IGT and another involving people who can't make that event?
Title: Re: 'A Tale of Four Warbands'
Post by: DapperAnarchist on January 20, 2011, 07:49:35 PM
I'd be the second one... Guess I'll give it a go anyway, taking stage by stage photos, with concept notes, sketches, etc...
Title: Re: 'A Tale of Four Warbands'
Post by: Kaled on January 20, 2011, 08:00:27 PM
Are you coming to the IGT?  I haven't sold you a ticket yet...

Anyone else in the process of planning new characters?  You don't need to be a master-modeller to join in - we're looking for interesting idea and different approaches to the process, so it doesn't matter if this is your first Inquisitor model or your ninety-first.
Title: Re: 'A Tale of Four Warbands'
Post by: mattausten86 on January 21, 2011, 06:11:49 PM
i would love to,but ive yet to play a proper game,so i dont think a tournament is the right place to start,plus its not fair on the other competitors having to deal with a newb!!!

cheers
matt
Title: Re: 'A Tale of Four Warbands'
Post by: DapperAnarchist on January 21, 2011, 06:27:26 PM
I've never played a game either... and I don't think I'll be at the IGT, but I will consider it seriously...
Title: Re: 'A Tale of Four Warbands'
Post by: psycho on January 21, 2011, 06:35:23 PM
well in reply to the whole thing about the IGT then what about those of us a fair few miles from warhammer world? as in 1200 miles and an ocean?  ;)
id love to contribute to this but if its simply going to be for the IGT then i dont know if it would make a very good DM article...as the people that will be at IGT are on here...and im pretty sure it isnt just Conclavers that read DM

kerby
Title: Re: 'A Tale of Four Warbands'
Post by: Kaled on January 21, 2011, 07:12:33 PM
As I said before, if everyone who's interested starts writing something and it can be divided into articles when we see what we have - I only suggested the IGT as it gives those people a set deadline.

At the minute it seems difficult enough to find people who want to take part and to get started... We can set some sort of timetable - initial ideas/sketches within the next fortnight, start building models in the month after that, and so on - would people prefer that?
Title: Re: 'A Tale of Four Warbands'
Post by: MarcoSkoll on January 21, 2011, 07:19:52 PM
I'm pretty sure it isnt just Conclavers that read DM
No, it isn't. But it is almost exclusively Conclavers who write for DM.

Using the IGT as the central theme isn't going to change the nature of the authorship significantly. However, it will give us a coherent plan, as well as a definite end date. The current lack of backbone for this project has left it stalled for months. People keep saying "Yeah, awesome, I'll do this" and then... absolutely squat happens.
But if we latch on to the warbands people are making (roughly concurrently) for the IGT, then it'll finally get this moving.

If at a later date, we want to do another To4G that has nothing to do with the IGT, then we can. But on the evidence of the last five months, that open-ended and incoherent attitude has got us no closer to an article.
Title: Re: 'A Tale of Four Warbands'
Post by: greenstuff_gav on January 22, 2011, 10:22:20 AM
im pretty sure it isnt just Conclavers that read DM

from a statistics point of view, DMs top referrer was Bruckhenof-online (or however it's spelt; am Mobile so can't check  :-[ ) followed by Warseer and then TGN...
i'm trying to get the latest mechanicus sculpt done in time but it isn't looking hopeful, hence not jumping on this project :(
Title: Re: 'A Tale of Four Warbands'
Post by: Heroka Vendile on January 22, 2011, 01:10:23 PM
I am probably going to try and put together a new warband for the GT, I'll be taking WIP photos that'd just go up on the 'clave in a regular situation, so if I do manage to get them done by the GT then I'd be more than happy to just put them into the article instead.
Don't take it as a definite, but if I do do the warband in time, then I am willing to add myself to the article(s).
Title: Re: 'A Tale of Four Warbands'
Post by: MarcoSkoll on January 23, 2011, 01:02:14 AM
Right - well, I had to resort to flipping a coin to get over my indecisiveness, but I've finally decided on what my warband is going to be.

So I've started writing, and I hope that others will join me in such.
Title: Re: 'A Tale of Four Warbands'
Post by: Necris on January 24, 2011, 03:25:07 PM
Well I think I maybe able to join in with this if you still need participants

I've been testing out my hand making true scale marines for a lost and the dammed army so hopefully will be up to some serious modelling

And if I can swing it I'll have a new warband for the IGT

and maybe a new Necris...
Title: Re: 'A Tale of Four Warbands'
Post by: Stormgrad on January 28, 2011, 10:36:12 AM
Well Hello there, ok some of you may know me from our DH Voip game anyway i have a tentative plan to attend the IGT (money, missus, etc allowing) regardless of getting there im going to start work on a warband so that i can attend if i can. having already spoke to marco i think that using the IGT as a deadline and the 3 model limit a good start (easily achievable goal and a deadline thats set in stone so i cant fudge it back if i feel the need) id then also like to expand upon this warband in maybe a future article i dont know anyway im ranting now and i need a shower
Title: Re: 'A Tale of Four Warbands'
Post by: Holiad on January 28, 2011, 01:11:34 PM
Well, I'd be happy to contribute, if two new followers attached to a pre-existing inquisitor(luckily Terwyn is very flexible regarding who she might be working with) is enough of a "new warband" to qualify. I would prefer to have slightly more solid guidelines on exactly what is expected, though.
Title: Re: 'A Tale of Four Warbands'
Post by: Kaled on January 28, 2011, 01:17:56 PM
Might I suggest that those people who plan to contribute to this article (or articles) get together and discuss a common approach rather than all working in isolation - the idea is to write a cohesive article so it might be worth passing drafts back and forwards between you so everyone gets sight of what the others are doing. It might also help to keep the momentum going if you can see each other's progress.
Title: Re: 'A Tale of Four Warbands'
Post by: MarcoSkoll on January 28, 2011, 03:22:09 PM
Well, to do that, we'll need a contributors list, and some idea of who's the project lead.

~~~~~

I was actually wondering about the article/articles issue. Would we release:

- one article per character
This could work, but has the obvious flaw that it's harder to talk about developing characters concurrently.

- one article per player
Perhaps the best option, as it means a player can organise stuff in the right order for them, although the article might get a bit long.

- one article per player per stage
i.e. Inspiration/Writing/Modelling/Painting, in whichever order the player prefers, although hopefully at least some of the inspiration first and the modelling before the painting.
Although, this might still put things out of order, as different stages on characters aren't necessarily done simultaneously.

- one article per stage
This is probably bad. As everyone works in different orders, then some people are just going to be horribly out of order - for example, my Character first approach wouldn't make much sense if it were released in a Model first order.

- Or one massive mega article with everyone in one.
This could run to most of the length of the original DM issues, particularly if players elected to include scenario writing and battle reports from the IGT in their write-up. Whether that's a bad thing is up to you.

~~~~~

Anyway, at the moment, I'm just keeping notes and pictures of everything I'm doing for the IGT - be it main characters, scenario writing, NPCs or props.

So depending on what we actually want written, I should be able to contribute to anything to some extent.
Title: Re: 'A Tale of Four Warbands'
Post by: Stormgrad on January 28, 2011, 09:02:09 PM
personally one article per player with our culmative thoughts on the igt possibly and maybe someone else as an outsider commenting on our results with what you feel we have achieved with the models and our success's at the IGT
Title: Re: 'A Tale of Four Warbands'
Post by: Kaled on January 28, 2011, 10:47:43 PM
Well, to do that, we'll need a contributors list, and some idea of who's the project lead
Sounds to me like you're volunteering! ;)
Title: Re: 'A Tale of Four Warbands'
Post by: Heroka Vendile on January 28, 2011, 11:23:52 PM
and maybe someone else as an outsider commenting on our results with what you feel we have achieved with the models and our success's at the IGT
That's more the sort of thing I could see working if there was a veteran/mentor bing in four new people to the game for the first time - this our context though it doesn't really work as well.

I would think that, seeing as nothing will go online until after the GT anyway, it'd be as well to either be one big article, or an article per player, rather than breaking it up any smaller - which would make it harder to keep track of/find that specific article you're after if you've got 12 pdfs to look through instead of just 1 or just 4. It would have worked well the break it up in some way with old DM, but not with the new article-by-article release style.
Title: Re: 'A Tale of Four Warbands'
Post by: MarcoSkoll on January 28, 2011, 11:53:37 PM
Sounds to me like you're volunteering!
Worryingly, I think I might be. But whether people would be happy with me as the project lead - that I don't know.

in this context though it doesn't really work as well.
I think I agree.

As for the most part we are taking fairly experienced players, a review of successes could come across as either sycophantic or condescending, depending on the reviewer's agreement/disagreement with the player.
Also, as this is an article where the whole point is to show different approaches to developing characters and models rather than a mythical "the way to do it", every approach is correct and a critique would be counter productive to the article.

But, in the case that a less experienced player wants to get involved but would rather they had some help with their characters, modelling or scenario writing, they are welcome to talk to me about it.
Title: Re: 'A Tale of Four Warbands'
Post by: Holiad on January 29, 2011, 12:04:30 AM
Myself, I'd struggle to categorise things by 'stage', since my own characters are rarely created in such a linear fashion-there tends to be feedback, espescially between modelling and writing. I'd prefer a format introducing each character in turn, with perhaps a small summary of the overall warband that results.
Title: Re: 'A Tale of Four Warbands'
Post by: Heroka Vendile on January 29, 2011, 12:28:29 AM
Spliting each participants article into headings such as Concept, Creation and Finished Product would allow people to talk about how their idea of the character(s) evolved through the process - whether they started with an intricately worked out backstory from the start or just a vague idea and some parts in mind for the model.
I would in fact suggest people go take a quick look back over Robeys "I'm Not a Monster" series in the DM issues to see what I mean with how he changed his mind and made alterations as he went.
Title: Re: 'A Tale of Four Warbands'
Post by: Stormgrad on January 29, 2011, 12:40:55 AM
ok so maybe reviewing success on if the player has achieved what he wanted should be down to the player but i do think a uniformed structure to each players article if were going one player one article would tie the whole thing in as one big peice
Title: Re: 'A Tale of Four Warbands'
Post by: Kaled on January 29, 2011, 04:47:48 AM
As for the most part we are taking fairly experienced players, a review of successes could come across as either sycophantic or condescending, depending on the reviewer's agreement/disagreement with the player.
Why not review each other's success? Each article could have boxes where you comment on things that you think are interesting or successful etc in the approach that someone else has taken - and if you are at the IGT and encounter one of the other players you can comment on how their warband was to play against.
Title: Re: 'A Tale of Four Warbands'
Post by: MarcoSkoll on January 30, 2011, 12:52:34 AM
Why not review each other's success?
I was wondering about that, actually. I think there's a certain amount to be said for little comments on interesting or successful parts of a player's work, but it should definitely avoid feeling like a critique or "I would have done it this way" - the final interpretation of the player's success should be left to them alone, if only because not everyone would be happy to have their work critiqued so publicly.

But I do think a uniform structure to each player's article if we're going one player one article would tie the whole thing in as one big piece
That suffers from the same reasons I talk about a "one article per stage" approach being tricky.
People's techniques for creating character and model vary so wildly (model first or character first, each character/model in turn or all simultaneously) that I can't see a way to have a uniform structure.
Title: Re: 'A Tale of Four Warbands'
Post by: Stormgrad on January 30, 2011, 12:13:01 PM
Well im going to start model first as i have an idea for the models and that's helped to give me an idea in regards to who else would be in the warband and there personalities
Title: Re: 'A Tale of Four Warbands'
Post by: Heroka Vendile on January 30, 2011, 02:55:51 PM
That's why I suggested the "Concept, Creation and Finished Product" breakdown for the articles, if you think about it building an interesting model will be some peoples concept stage, then their creation stage would be writing the background and then in finished product they'd present the character profile.
Whereas someone else would work the opposite way round, knowing what skills and tools they want the character to have, then writing a background to support that and finishing will building an model inspired by the background they've written.