Author Topic: Silencers and flash suppressers  (Read 2273 times)

Offline GAZKUL

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Silencers and flash suppressers
« on: September 02, 2010, 05:08:16 PM »
Simple really,  i was wondering how they would work in Inquisitor and this seems likea good place to ask questions so hey.
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Offline Acolyte Havlan Tome

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Re: Silencers and flash suppressers
« Reply #1 on: September 02, 2010, 05:10:56 PM »
There is rules for this in Marcoskoll's revised armoury
http://www.the-conclave.co.uk/forum/index.php?topic=33.msg135#msg135
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Offline GAZKUL

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Re: Silencers and flash suppressers
« Reply #2 on: September 02, 2010, 05:21:56 PM »
I don't see to be able to download it but thanks anyyway, will try again later.
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Offline Acolyte Havlan Tome

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Re: Silencers and flash suppressers
« Reply #3 on: September 02, 2010, 05:25:14 PM »
If you still can't download it then i'll read it and post a summarizer (is that even a word?!?!) here.
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Offline MarcoSkoll

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Re: Silencers and flash suppressers
« Reply #4 on: September 02, 2010, 05:33:43 PM »
Well, my thoughts for "Silencers" are loosely set out in the Revised Armoury (It's left partly to GM discretion, but I recommend reducing hearing ranges to about 10-20%. It also adds +5 to the encumbrance*, and removes the "Concealable" quality if the weapon has it), but I'll elaborate a bit.
*I use the word Encumbrance rather than weight as it also covers the size and unwieldiness of a weapon.

The first thing to say is that "Silencer" is an optimistic term. Except under very specific circumstances, you get "suppressors" - there are very few firearms which can be made sufficiently quiet as to be described as "silenced".

There are three main sources of noise on firing - the muzzle blast, the projectile and the action.
In the first case, the sound comes from the violent displacement of air by the burning propellant gasses as they leave the muzzle.
In the second case, a supersonic (or transonic) projectile - so basically most projectiles approaching 340 m/sm and all exceeding that velocity - will create a small sonic boom, creating a noise of its own.
The third one is the movement of the parts inside the gun on firing, as well as any noise of ejecting casings.

Now, suppressors only reduce the muzzle blast, and do nothing for the other two sources. So a suppressor alone cannot completely silence a firearm.

Should you have a firearm with a subsonic muzzle velocity, then you can approach "quiet". The DeLisle Carbine (used for specific roles during WWII) for example, firing the subsonic .45 ACP cartridge and with a very large integral suppressor was actually so quiet that working the bolt action made more noise than firing it.
However, the downside to a lower velocity is less energy in the projectile (so less lethality and damage), as well as a longer time to target, making longer range shooting much harder.

However, most firearms are supersonic, so they can't be all that efficiently suppressed. So, you may be asking "why bother at all, if you can't make it completely quiet?" That however, is pretty simple...

Firstly, it means that it won't be heard from quite so far away.
Secondly, it also means it becomes a lot harder to determine where the shot has come from. (And I may be building rules for this into the next version of the Revised Armoury.)
Thirdly, you won't deafen yourself (as much) if you should happen to fire indoors.

Anyway, I think I've probably said enough to bore you now.
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Captain L. Rollin: "Nonsense. Never heard of it."
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Offline GAZKUL

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Re: Silencers and flash suppressers
« Reply #5 on: September 02, 2010, 06:31:58 PM »
MarcoSkoll, i'm just amazed that you have the intellegence to work that out and convert it to inquisitor

Out of interest having read through the armoury i would suggest rules for expanding bullets as they would be fairly easy to manufacture and would be readily available on just about any planet.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Expanding_bullet
« Last Edit: September 02, 2010, 06:46:18 PM by GAZKUL »
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Offline DapperAnarchist

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Re: Silencers and flash suppressers
« Reply #6 on: September 02, 2010, 06:59:09 PM »
Aren't those Dum-Dums or Manstoppers? The RIA also has a variety of other similar rounds.
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Offline MarcoSkoll

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Re: Silencers and flash suppressers
« Reply #7 on: September 02, 2010, 07:22:10 PM »
Expanding ammunition is indeed covered under manstoppers. However, I deliberately chose not to name anything "dum-dum" ammunition, as the name can refer to quite a wide range of ammunitions and would confuse things a bit.

I should note, I will be swapping the advantages (but not the disadvantages) for supercavitating and Manstopper rounds in the next version, as I think it will better represent each of them.
S.Sgt Silva Birgen: "Good evening, we're here from the Adeptus Defenestratus."
Captain L. Rollin: "Nonsense. Never heard of it."
Birgen: "Pick a window. I'll demonstrate".

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Offline DapperAnarchist

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Re: Silencers and flash suppressers
« Reply #8 on: September 02, 2010, 09:56:25 PM »
Supercavitating, that was the word I couldn't remember and so didn't use! I was going to say cavitating... Also, would Cutter rounds be similar in effect? Or are they more like mini versions of round bandsaw blades?
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Offline MarcoSkoll

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Re: Silencers and flash suppressers
« Reply #9 on: September 02, 2010, 10:53:14 PM »
Or are they more like mini versions of round bandsaw blades?
Pretty much - think ballistic cookie cutters, a circular band of copper with a sharpened leading edge.
In reality, they're most useful for shooting tyres (because they cut neat holes, rather than pushing holes through them like normal bullets), and not all that great versus people - there are many more effective projectiles for that job.

So not really the same thing as an expanding bullet. However, they were a reasonable candidate for replacing the "dum-dum" archetype in the LRB, so I drafted them in for that reason.

On this overall note, if you look back at earlier versions of the RIA, I think there were a few traces of where I'd used "expanding" in the early drafts but later failed to replace it with "Manstopper".
S.Sgt Silva Birgen: "Good evening, we're here from the Adeptus Defenestratus."
Captain L. Rollin: "Nonsense. Never heard of it."
Birgen: "Pick a window. I'll demonstrate".

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Offline InquisitorHeidfeld

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Re: Silencers and flash suppressers
« Reply #10 on: September 08, 2010, 01:37:10 PM »
Having seen attempts to render a large proportion of modern small arms munitions in other games I would serously suggest sticking with very simple categories...
If everything from a scored, unjacketted ball round to a Hydra-shock (with a hollowpoint you could mix drinks in) to a hollowpoint with a nitro-cellulose pack is simply a manstopper then it's a lot easier to play than if you have five hundred and eighty-six references to look up (and to differentiate, a process which will cause no end of arguements from "experts").

It doesn't matter whether Mel Gibson's Beretta is loading jacketted ball, hollow points...etc until you get to him using "Black Rhinos". They're there because of the story and their effect is required by it.
If you imagine such things in terms of the movies then you probably won't go too far wrong.

In a similar vein just point out to the GM the presence of the silencer and, most likely, when you're sneaking around assassinating mooks it'll be effectively silent, when it comes to a more important character... well it probably won't be your shot which warns them...

Offline Jamas Orian

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Re: Silencers and flash suppressers
« Reply #11 on: September 10, 2010, 01:14:59 PM »
If memory serves me rightly - a 3s statline in 40k (i.e., an imperial guardsman of no great stature) is about following in Inquisitor:

WS BS S  T  I  WP NV SG LD
50 50 50 50 40 40 40 40 55

Offline Jamas Orian

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Re: Silencers and flash suppressers
« Reply #12 on: September 10, 2010, 01:15:32 PM »
Ignore this post. Was in the wrong thread.