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Quelli Santificati

Started by GAZKUL, September 23, 2010, 06:24:33 PM

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Kaled

#30
Quote from: GAZKUL on January 02, 2011, 11:14:30 AM
Bodyguard: follows rules for compassion, in addition if the character he is protecting is attacked he gains the furious charge ability when targeting the attacker. If the character he is protecting is killed then the bodyguard counts as frenzied until the killer is dead.
You might also want to look at the existing Bodyguard or Shield abilities (see the articles on navigators & marines).

EDIT: I was thinking about this some more, and given the distrust, fear, revulsion and loathing that a pariah (especially one of who's rated omega-minus) generates in those around him, does it really make sense for him to be an 'ultimate leader' and have risen to become an Inquisitor Lord?
I like to remember things my own way... Not necessarily the way they happened.

Inquisitor - Blood Bowl - Malifaux - Fairy Meat

MarcoSkoll

Quote from: Kaled on January 02, 2011, 11:35:53 AMEDIT: I was thinking about this some more, and does it really make sense for an omega-minus to be an 'ultimate leader' and have risen to become an Inquisitor Lord?
Yes... this had just occurred to me. Such an individual would be hated and feared, not revered.
S.Sgt Silva Birgen: "Good evening, we're here from the Adeptus Defenestratus."
Captain L. Rollin: "Nonsense. Never heard of it."
Birgen: "Pick a window. I'll demonstrate".

GW's =I= articles

GAZKUL

i'll check the existing rules for bodyguards.

on the Omega Minus front, if a psyker can become a lord then surely a pariah could. I can see the inquistion, in particular the Ordos Mallus and Heriticus being a magnet for blanks and pariahs due to the fact that thier prey would find it harder to detect them.

anyway i've never been able to understand why pariahs are hated, surely being the polar opposite of a psyker would make them trusted and valued?
"You do not need to prove that you exist because soon you won't"

Myriad

Pariahs are hated because, to the average psychic human, they just seem 'wrong' somehow, and distrust them instinctively, rather strongly for omega levels.  Basically the condition, unllike that of being a psyker, comes with poor people skills and this would be an obstacle to rising too high within the inquisition.  It is also regarded as a mutation, I believe, which constitutes a further barrier to advancement. 

In contrast, a properly sanctioned psyker may be regarded with distrust but their powers will often mean they have a significant edge in many situations.  I personally feel too many inquisitors (in black library as well as on the conclave) are depicted as being psykers.

Having said that, pariahs are valued as operative pawns and a sufficiently gifted one could rise to a position of some seniority.  Since they are unlikely to be sanctioned for inquisitorial status, a slightly irregular position of 'senior, senior acolyte' is even concievable.
I had better point out, that some of the clubs I represent are of a military bent.

You know what you are?  A plywood shark!

GAZKUL

I got the impresstion that having poor people skills wasn't a barrier to being good at killing psykers, which at the end of the day is all that really matters.

Psykers aspire similar revulshion in non-psykers, yet like you said are common in the inquisition so a blank, the anethesis of chaos'd aspire the nessasary fear in those they hunt, and would be the perfect inquisitors.

besides you don't have to go along with everything that's in the book, there's exeptions to every rule.
"You do not need to prove that you exist because soon you won't"

DapperAnarchist

Inquisitors must do much much more than killing people. They have people who do that for them, as it were. An Inquisitor is more like M than 007 - killers are ten a penny, especially in the Imperium, but great minds are rare.

Psykers only create revulsion in those who know they are a Psyker. Pariahs create revulsion in everyone, no matter what, from birth.

Of course, there are exceptions to some things, but an exception that does nothing but remove the bad parts just seems like cheating the story.
Questions are a burden to others, answers a burden to oneself.

The Keltani Subsector  My P&M Thread - Most recent, INQ28!

Kaled

DA said it rather well, so this is just to back up what he said. People feel revulsion towards psykers because they've been taught to hate and fear witches. They feel revulsion to pariahs because they're wrong, they're souless abominations and eveyone around them can feel it. One as strong as omega-minus may well make people feel physically sick in his presence and certainly everyone will instinctively hate him. No one wants to be around such an individual, they're often outcasts from birth and spend their entire lives being persecuted. Thus their people skills are almost always terrible, and for one to gain sufficient respect to become an Inquisitor Lord is unlikely (that's not to say it couldn't happen, but you'd need a damn good story). Inquisitor Lord is really a political appointment, nothing to do with how good you are at killing witches - and people who are instinctively despised by everyone they meet don't tend to do so well when it comes to getting the support of their peers.
I like to remember things my own way... Not necessarily the way they happened.

Inquisitor - Blood Bowl - Malifaux - Fairy Meat

GAZKUL

"You do not need to prove that you exist because soon you won't"

DapperAnarchist

1) Cameron is well liked by the Tories. He's one of them, but seems like a nice person - until you actually listen.

2) In the words of the Now Show - "Remember when people made badges saying 'I agree with Nick'? Not even Nick Clegg can say that now." Everyone liked Nick, once.

3) Lots of people still like George W. Bush, and he is apparently a truly likeable person up close. Charming, pleasant, and funny.

4) Hitler was a master manipulator, able to be fearsome, charming, or authoritative depending on the situation. Also, Godwin's Law.

5) Stalin is the closest to a counter example here, though he was also pleasant when he wanted to be. Roosevelt liked him, more so than the boorish and loud Churchill. That's one of the reasons Tehran didn't go as we might have hoped, with retrospect. Also, he didn't rise in isolation, as many Inquisitors would, but as part of a close-knit system of hierarchies, which is mostly lacking in the Inquisition.
Questions are a burden to others, answers a burden to oneself.

The Keltani Subsector  My P&M Thread - Most recent, INQ28!

Kaled

Again, DA has answered rather well, so there's not much more to say other than the obvious point that none of those people are/were pariahs.  They may not be likeable, although as DA points out, most of them are (at least by some people), but they're not literally soulless abominations...
I like to remember things my own way... Not necessarily the way they happened.

Inquisitor - Blood Bowl - Malifaux - Fairy Meat

MarcoSkoll

#40
Quote from: GAZKUL on January 03, 2011, 04:59:36 PMI direct you to these links for my counter argument.
While a daft joke, none of those individuals are instinctively despised.

No politician is without support (so some people like them), and when someone dislikes them, it's not instinctive - it depends on your former knowledge and assessment of them. If someone from some unconnected country met David Cameron without knowing who he was, they wouldn't naturally want to punch him in the face. In fact, they'd probably find him quite likeable - the man has charisma.

And people liked Hitler! If the man had refrained from the mass murder, then he'd probably have been hailed as one of the greatest leaders of the last century.

A Pariah's wrongness makes simply being around them a chore. They may not be unpleasant in personality (although many are, a knee jerk reaction to how people treat them), but you constantly feel like they're going to stab you in the back, that they're hiding something, you just can't trust them, etc, etc.
An Omega-Minus... that's practically "I'd climb over my own mother to be away from this person faster".

Pariahs are valued as an anti-psyker tool, but not as a person. And while a more mild Pariah might earn tentative trust, it will always be as an underling (i.e. I think this man probably will do what I tell him), never a superior (i.e. I do not trust this man to tell me what to do).

Now, a psyker - that's a bit more like being in the room with someone who behaves entirely normally. Until an hour in when you realise that the other man walking around the flat isn't his roommate, but his partner.
The hatred of psykers is religious indoctrination, much like many religions of today indoctrinate against homosexuals. (And bear in mind, that the Imperium is far more intensely religious than the modern day.)

While, IMO, homosexuals are unfairly persecuted (but let's not get into that discussion), it is somewhat valid in the case of psykers - as they are dangerous. They can lose control and let daemons free, and even if they are in control, they possess powers that you have to trust won't be used on you...
(Disclaimer: I am not implying that gay people are somehow dangerous.)

And personally, I think there are too many psychic Inquisitors. Because it needs both an Inquisitor willing to train them, then at least two others who believe they are worthy of the rank to sponsor their promotion, they would be something of a rarity. More common than in the general population, but we're probably still only talking about a few percent.
S.Sgt Silva Birgen: "Good evening, we're here from the Adeptus Defenestratus."
Captain L. Rollin: "Nonsense. Never heard of it."
Birgen: "Pick a window. I'll demonstrate".

GW's =I= articles

DapperAnarchist

In a large and rather stratified Conclave, such as would exist close to Terra, a mild Pariah might be able to thrive, if he had other skills.

A place where you could find a Pariah though is as a representative of the Inquisitor Lord. Not an Inquisitor in his own right, but an Acolyte. Why would a Pariah be useful? He's immune to psychic interrogation techniques, or thought-theft. Train him in various other skills, like resistance to ordinary interrogation (perhaps some surgical alteration may be useful here), and bingo, excellent mouthpiece, if you can guarantee his loyalty.
Questions are a burden to others, answers a burden to oneself.

The Keltani Subsector  My P&M Thread - Most recent, INQ28!

GAZKUL

okay, say if the inquisition is about 50-60% radical what'd be stopping a group of them simply giving the norm a big FU and promoting the guy, anything is possible, even if they distrusted them on principle, it is possible to overcome such things. i'm sure everyone harbours some prejudice against a group of people but that dousn't mean everyone has the same prejudice.
"You do not need to prove that you exist because soon you won't"

MarcoSkoll

Quote from: GAZKUL on January 03, 2011, 11:52:11 PMokay, say if the inquisition is about 50-60% radical what'd be stopping a group of them simply giving the norm a big FU and promoting the guy
The Inquisition isn't anywhere NEAR that radical.

And what's stopping them is that hatred of Pariahs is not a prejudice. A prejudice is something where you have already made your mind up about someone on the basis of something they are.

A Pariah will make your mind up for you. You don't have to know anything about them, they don't even have to do anything, but the moment you meet them you dislike them, you distrust them, and you'd rather be having a three hour phone conversation with your mother-in-law about the precise colour of what her cat threw up this morning. You'd even rather be listening to mother-in-law jokes.
You can be told why you don't like them, and try to get over it - but you'll never be able to get rid of those gut feelings.

That's just a "normal "untouchable. Being in the same room as an Omega-minus is like being drunk (and to complete the reference: "What's wrong with being drunk? Ask a glass of water.").
Like I said, it's a "climb over my own mother to be away from this person faster" unpleasantness - that's not a prejudice, that's because being around them is actually eating at your soul.

It's not that you don't want to like them (as it is with psykers) - you can't.
S.Sgt Silva Birgen: "Good evening, we're here from the Adeptus Defenestratus."
Captain L. Rollin: "Nonsense. Never heard of it."
Birgen: "Pick a window. I'll demonstrate".

GW's =I= articles

O_o

for a blank or Pariahs it is not a prejudice that peopledon't like them it  JUST THEM !!

its an AURA or lack there of 
they have not warp signature or psychic presents thus why they are referred to as blanks or nulls
there is JUST something that creeps you out and you want to get away from them 
it would make you nervous to be around them or unsettled 

it not WHAT  they  are  its what  they are LACKING
and this leads to them  becoming a social  out caste