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Emperors Tartot in =I=

Started by Exokan, August 17, 2009, 05:46:01 AM

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Exokan

I'd like a little input on something I've been kicking around for a while.

On the old conclave I posted fluff and stats for all my characters except the Inquisitor. Ordo-Xenos, studying warp dampeners, cliche book-worm type. Simple enough... until it came into my brain that she's also a freak at reading the Emperors tarot. Little training, relatively young, but an intuitive understanding of the cards. Doesn't really matter how this happened, whether latent psychic talent, plan dumb luck, a super coach, or that she cheats! Either way I figured a rule set, not overly complex but fun and chancy would be cool.

First factual questions about the tarot:
Psycho reactive cards in a yada yada matrix rumored to have something to do with the Old Corpse. Does this mean that someone has to be a psyker to use the cards? Does true meaning come from careful contemplation, warp knowledge, or a bit of both? Pretty sure GW has never elaborated,  but it's worth asking.

In Game:
Figured they be more useful in long drawn out campaigns, and this would be fun for a GM to work into the plot. A character reads something, interprets something from it and the GM either makes it so or flips it on the characters!
But in game mid battle...? Action to think a question draw a card. Pass a sagacity/willpower/both test to divine meaning, all for a re-roll on something? Or a free pause for breath right then? Automatically make an enemy aware to the reader? How to handle multiple drawings (as actual tarots would have)?

Imagine our hero/heroine hiding behind a wall wondering where an enemy sniper that is pinning down her retinue is. Being the odd ball that he/she is instead of looking for muzzle flash or whatever they just bust out the deck and pull the Eagle card and then pulls the Basilica. Obviously the cards would point to the sniper perched on the top of that fortified church!

How do you emulate that in a game?

Would love some input, thoughts, fluff or whatever else!

Inquisitor Cade

I'm fairly sure you don't have to be a psyker to use them.

In terms of gameplay, I'd leave a lot of it up to the Gm. Ask him the question, have him secretly roll a 50:50 chance or something and then have him tell you what cards you get. I recon the character must pass an Sg test for each card before they can figure out the meaning, though they don't know if the cards are being helpful or not.
*Insert token witticism*

Charax

the simple way to do it would be:
Spend an action to read the Tarot. Take a sagacity test.

On any double (11, 22, 33, 44, 55, 66, 77, 88, 99 or 100) something happens.
If the double is a pass, the character has seen a glimpse into the future and gains a single reroll that must be used before the end of the next turn.
If the double is a fail, the character has disastrously misread the cards and they either lose one of their accumulated rerolls, or their opponent may force them to reroll a successful roll (again, this must be used before the end of the next turn.

a non-double pass means the tarot was read correctly, but the result is of little consequence ("The tarot says I shall get a stomach ache next week")

a non-double pass means the tarot was read incorrectly, but it's of no consequence ("My sister will get married next month? but I'm an only child. Stupid Tarot")

It's also worth remembering that the psycho-reactive crystal wafer cards are only a very specific subset of Tarot cards, it takes many forms.
(No longer} The guy with his name at the bottom of the page

Inquisitor Cade

You said pass there where you meant fail.
Quotea non-double pass means the tarot was read incorrectly, but it's of no consequence ("My sister will get married next month? but I'm an only child. Stupid Tarot")

I think the double idea is great, though I'm not sure a reroll is the best way to represent it. Better that the Gm tell him something, or waits until later and declares that the reader already knows about something that happens.

E.g. 'In fact your character does know which was that guy is running, even though he can't see him, because that is what the Tarot told him three turns ago.'
*Insert token witticism*

Charax

Seems a little cheap to say "let the GM handle it", and not every game will have situations where the GM revealing information would be appropriate. a re-roll represents non-specific foreknowledge in a way that can be applied to game mechanics ("I failed the risky action for firing my Plasma Pistol *reroll* but a quick reading of the Tarot warned me of potential misfire, so I made sure to vent it first")

Information-based Tarot reading is probably best left to inter-scenario downtime in a campaign, really - not least of all because the system I proposed has a built-in mechanism for handling multiple actions. If you spend a whole turn reading the Tarot, you can rack up a lot of time-limited rerolls, which are a lot less scenario-effecting than the GM "owing" you 3 or 4 pieces of information

Besides, a turn is around 10 seconds, I'm not sure a reading quick enough to be made in a couple of seconds as a single action would reveal information as detailed as where your target's going to be in three days.
(No longer} The guy with his name at the bottom of the page

precinctomega

I do feel that the idea of spending time reading the Tarot in the middle of a firefight is a bit silly.

My Rogue Trader character, Lady Delilah von Gothe, has rules for the Imperial Tarot.  Basically, she can choose to spend time reading it before a scenario.  If she does so, she is -1 Speed but gains the Heroic ability.

A more exciting use for the pack is as a campaign device.  I attempted such a use for Inquisitor: NS/OL at Ten4Ten back in June.  The results were... patchy, but I think most participants agreed that it certainly added a real "Dark Millennium" flavour to the event.

R.

TheNephew

I don't think that the Tarot would be well represented in-game at all - the impression I got from the books it's featured in [Eisenhorn and Draco trilogies?] and the basis of the tarot was something that requires a lot of time, calm and contemplation. Far from suitable for mid-game.
Using it to supply information to players in campaigns seems like a far more appropriate use.
It doesn't seem sensible that such a method of divination could warn you that you should duck in a couple of minutes - though the Eagle in the Basillica is on the edges of possibility.
I'd always assumed that the Tarot was little more specific than a real-world tarot, and as such the answers would contain information, but be very open to personal interpretation and circumstance.

MarcoSkoll

For a rough solution, I'd make the character take an SG test at the start of the game, and if the pass, they may use one of the following on one occasion during the game (player choice, doesn't have to choose until they get it right)

- "Plain Dumb Luck" ability - at least in rules
Knowing the future puts you at least one step ahead.

- Wyrd: Detection, or possibly Wyrd: Psi-track (but not persistent)
The Tarot said there would be someone there, and you already know where...

- Nullification of one Risky Action fail.
You knew that it would work before you tried it!

Failure of the Sg test would presumably incur penalties - perhaps the GM determines that you must re-roll a success of their choice, your character makes a mistake as to the location of another character, or a risky action automatically falls flat.

Just some thoughts...
S.Sgt Silva Birgen: "Good evening, we're here from the Adeptus Defenestratus."
Captain L. Rollin: "Nonsense. Never heard of it."
Birgen: "Pick a window. I'll demonstrate".

GW's =I= articles

Herald

I have a set of rules for the tarot that were posted up on the old (or possibly old old) conclave by Lord Inquisitor. I've never used them in game so can't really comment on them but they look ok.

The Emperor's Tarot

The Tarot may be consulted before a scenario, given sufficient time, either for the character himself or for another character. The player should make a Sg test for the reader to interpret the cards at all and, if passed, roll a D6, consulting the table below, applying the effects to the character receiving the reading.

In addition to the effects from the table, the GM should make a second Sg test for the reader in secret. If the test is passed, the GM can provide the character with a cryptic clue or prediction for the following scenario, if failed the GM should provide a misleading divination.

1. Doom is upon thee!
Bad omens lie ahead. The character suffers -10Nv and treats all other characters as Fearsome (and treats Fearsome characters as Terrifying).

2. An ill wind blows about thee.
There are no good signs. The character suffers -10 Nv.

3-5. The fortunes smile on thee.
Bolstered by the good omens, the character gains the Heroic ability.

6. The Emperor's blessing be upon thee.
The character gains the Heroic ability and may ignore the first failed Risky Action.

In addition, one Emperor's Tarot card may be designated the owner's personal avatar, and as such can be a potent fetish. A character holding his card gains +15% from each action spent concentrating, rather than +10%.

On a different note it's good to see the 'clave back again it appears to have amazing powers of resurrection.
"A man who joins the Inquisition a radical has no faith, a man who leaves it a puritan has no sense".

Exokan

Thanks for the responses guys!

Yeah omega, it would be a bit silly, but in my opinion it's goofy, irrational, and Gothic enough to be something incorporated in the game. Or to at least make stuff interesting.

Marco, love the ideas, though they don't seem dynamic enough for me. Imagine a nerdy =I= with less than stellar combat abilities but a keen eye for the future... a single ability once a game might be a great surprise but not a dominate character trait. But again, I dig the ideas. Also could you point me to 'plain dumb luck', is it in the Kal rules?

I know it's a bit difficult, and I had also thought about high GM involvement. Like multiple card pulls over the span of a few turns and then subsequent 'concentration' actions would make the GM reveal something. Or even something like having the opposing player write something true or false, then the GM writes the opposite, and gives both pieces of info to a player, they must decide which bit of info is true or false or whatever. Probably messy but interesting.

Nephew, I'm pretty sure the cards are more specific to the 40k universe but still vague as all hell. And again in a campaign setting the cards would be great... even if they where from a 'desk job' member of an inquisitors retinue!

Charax I like where you're going. I'm falling out of love with the re-roll idea only because its so blah blah, but maybe it could be combined with Marco's idea.

Thanks guys. Keep it coming if you have anything more!

MarcoSkoll

QuoteMarco, love the ideas, though they don't seem dynamic enough for me.
What I'm suggesting is more rules for a "pre-read" Tarot. It may not be hugely dominant, but being able to pull that out is still a powerful ability.

Consider Plain Dumb Luck (PDL) as being very much like a Might point in the LotR game. You can squander it on something petty, but save it for the right moment...
Having the option of that, a detection power or a risky action save* - pull that out at a critical moment, and you're on the money.

* Mind you, I generally play PDL as being able to nullify a risky action fail anyway - it seems appropriate.

And yes, PDL is in the Kal rules.

~~~~~

If you're looking for an in-game Tarot, nothing to stop you following a similar line - a successful reading (Sg test, as already discussed) confers an ability for a couple of turns.
Heroic wouldn't be inappropriate (the course of action is clear), Dodge (forewarned about an attack), Wyrd:Detection* (You know where the foe is) ... that kind of thing.

*I'd probably make the pre-read version the more powerful psi-track power (perhaps with some minor adjustments).

The nature of such a prompt reading might not make what it tells you useful though - you might want to come up with a list of 6 appropriate skills, then randomise which one you got.
Or perhaps 4... A D6 roll of 1 means the information is accurate, but inconsequential at the time. 2-5 is a randomised skill. 6 is the skill of your choice.

Fails on the Sg test should result in penalties of course. I might also allow "concentration" actions for reading the tarot - more time will improve the chances of an accurate reading.
S.Sgt Silva Birgen: "Good evening, we're here from the Adeptus Defenestratus."
Captain L. Rollin: "Nonsense. Never heard of it."
Birgen: "Pick a window. I'll demonstrate".

GW's =I= articles

precinctomega

Incidentally, when it comes to questions about what the Tarot is and how it works, you could do worse than to read my treatment of the subject at Dark Reign:

http://www.darkreign40k.com/general-background/the-emperor-s-tarot-2.html

As it happens, I happen to use a different version of the Tarot's organization since I wrote this, but the underpinning background works just as well.

R.

Exokan

omega, great site/organization! Had thought about incorporating individual cards into the rules somehow... but then I'd have to write a whole new rule book.

Out of curiosity, how much of the organization is officially cannon (or at least Black Library)?

precinctomega

Almost nothing is canonical, Tarot-wise.  When I wrote Phobos Worked in Adamant for the Planetkill anthology, I made up cards largely to suit my plot requirements.  I understand that almost everyone else who writes for BL and GW does the same.

That said, I did find a complete Tarot online somewhere which I downloads and turned into my own deck for an event at York Garrison Wargaming Club and it does strike me as a very good version.  I'll try to pass it onto MarcoSkoll for inclusion in the files.

R.

Tullio

I'm halfway through writing a version of the Emperors Tarot myself, for the purposes of roleplaying mostly. The tack I've taken is to base it heavily on the real-world Tarot. For example -

Card III - The Regent
Description - Also known as the Governor, the Regent carries out matters of state as the Emperor's Proxy. The Regent knows what is to be done and does it without hesitation.
Meanings - Accomplishment, Fruitfulness, Practicality, Duty, sometimes feminine progress
Reversed - Lack of interest, Lack of concentration, delay, infidelity, regress

This is simply The Empress (If I recall correctly) given an appropriate 40K moniker with a bit of tweaking on the meanings to make the connotations correct.

Anyway, having used the Tarot myself, I have to say simply drawing a random card and looking at it tells you nothing. Even if you read one card in conjunction with a question it still means nothing. Given this, I'd probably apply the Tarot before the game in relation to the scenario at hand. For example, the scenario is to capture a Hive Ganger after a heavy bout of acid rain. Character takes any appropriate tests. He reads reasonably well, and gets a bonus to climbing ladders and so on, being forewarned by the Tarot that they will be treacherous

Tullio