Zombies...high T or Ability?

[psycho]

Ok so looking to have lots of "low level" zombies to use as NPCs in a lil campaign i may run for myself and my dad....there will be a few higher level "boss" zombies to deal with but i was wondering for the normal gun fodder ones what would be better....a high T (like 80 when my PCs are T65 max) or special ability such as True Grit or a modified version of it (to make them immune to single shots and even auto fire almost....but if enough is poured onto them theyll go down)

what do you guys think? Anyone come up with their own rules for the flesh eaters? Im not sure how to get the "once bitten" side of them across....any help?

kerby

[Kallidor]

Perhaps you could adapt the Necromunda rules for Plague Zombies?

Zombie Shuffle: Plague Zombies move a random distance each turn - roll 2D6. No running, no charging but count as charging if they end up in base-to-base contact with an enemy model.

No Pain: immune to pinning and flesh wounds.

No fear: ignore psychology rules.

Plague!: Any model wounded in hand-to-hand rolls on the following table:

1 Clear

2-5 Sickness - the character is ill for days and misses the next fight

6 Zombie Time! - the character becomes a zombie

Based on that and the stats from Necromunda I'd give them rules rather than stat increases.

True Grit, Nerves of Steel and Force of Will seem like a must or you cuold simply have them act more like the Plague Zombies in Necromunda; immune to pinning and other psychology. I'd make them immune to bleeding and system shock too as well as ignoring Light injuries.

As for the actual stats, they are very low in Necromunda and I'd be tempted to use stats for an average human although it would be cool to have something a bit more Half Life as well, with zombie guardsmen et cetera who are more tough (since they were so when not infected) and wielding a weapon or two - suicide zombies like in Half Life would be pretty nasty.

[MarcoSkoll]

I recall some prior discussion of zombies... and it seems it was here.

[Kaled]

I probably mention it in the thread Marco linked to, but use a variation on the rules for NPCs in Architecture of Hate (available in the usual repository). They're perfect for this type of thing.

[Ynek]

I probably mention it in the thread Marco linked to, but use a variation on the rules for NPCs in Architecture of Hate (available in the usual repository). They're perfect for this type of thing.

Indeed. Simplified NPC rules are a must for a game like this. I actually ran a zombie-based Inquisitor game a year or so ago, which can be read about on this warseer thread: http://www.warseer.com/forums/showthread.php?t=210070

I will advise that in postapocalyptic zombie scenarios, a simple 'zombie siege' (Such as the mall scenes in "Dawn of the Dead") will get boring very quickly. As anyone who has ever played the PC game "zombie panic" will tell you, all it really boils down to is the survivors barricading up a building and waiting for everyone else to get bored, or the zombies break in and it's all over in a blink. Either way, Zombie sieges are not fun. You should utilise objectives to encourage players to move around and spread out, thus making them more vulnerable to zombie attack. Additionally, it helps if the number of zombies increases over time, or a Resident Evil style "self destruct" has been activated, to give an impression of urgency to make the players hurry up.

In the example I have linked to, the characters had to perform a specific objective which would discourage simply hiding in a building and barricading the doors. The players also had their weapons and armour stripped away, so that they would have to balance hunting their objectives and weapons carefully. All in all, these simple steps made the game very entertaining.

If I was going to do a similar mission again, I would definitely reduce the number of zombies that I had in play, but increase their stats to make them more potent. By the end of the game, around 20-30 zombies were shambling around, and that's quite a few characters to be keeping tabs on their injury totals etc. In short, fewer, stronger zombies are preferable to hundreds of 'meat fodder' ones.

When I played this mission, I used my own NPC rules, which are essentially a further simplification of the architecture of hate NPC rules. But if you have a maximum of 10 zombies in play, the architecture of hate rules should work quite nicely.

I didn't mean to come across there as know-it-all-ey there, but I just thought that my experiences with zombie scenarios would be relevant.

But in answer to your initial question of High Toughness, or use abilities, I would probably advocate the use of whichever ability requires the less record-keeping. Since I'm guessing there's going to be quite a few zombies in play, you never want to have so many that you're constantly flicking through zombie character sheets to keep tabs on their various stats. I would probably use a variation on the 'toughness test death' NPC character injury rules and give them a high toughness value. (I can't remember who actually wrote these rules, but it basically boils down to the NPC having a toughness value of say 20. Any time they take an injury, deduct the damage caused by the weapon from their thoughness and take a toughness test. If they pass, they live. If they fail, they die. This means that you never have to keep tabs on their injury totals during the game, and frees up a lot of record-keeping time and character sheet referencing. In this example, I might say that you would give the zombie a toughness of around 50. This means that a good shot from a stubber doing 10 damage would have a 64% chance of killing them, whilst a perfect blow from a power sword would have an 80% chance of killing them. All in all, I only suggest this as a means to free the GM from having to keep so many records.

Also, don't be scared to let the zombies do quite a bit of damage with their hand-to-hand attacks. Bear in mind that the zombies are so slow that players will be easily able to outrun them, and the zombies will only become a problem if the zombies succeed in cornering them.

Hmm. I think I want to play a zombie scenario, now.... XD

[psycho]

Now why when i searched the forum did it not find my previous post? I remembered writing it up and everything but couldnt find it...oh well ta Marco....
Yeah ive been looking at the AOH rules for NPCs and im quite interested in using them actually....as Ynek says with a lil bit of Modding theyll be perfect...anyone else got any links to Zombie style characters being used in their games? Interested to read about them

kerby

[InquisitorHeidfeld]

Personally I'd probably work with the standard Romero model...

Stats a little lower than one would normally expect from an unnamed mook, immune to all psychology...

Then just the small factor that unless you destroy the brain or spinal cord they just won't die.
Apply damage as normal, keep blowing off arms and legs but they'll still just keep coming.

Start slow and build steadily wherever the characters are but giving them escape routes to force them to move...

[precinctomega]

For handling damage, I would suggest that zombies ignore all damage that fails to exceed their BIV.  Give each zombie a small d6 on its base and give them a set number of "wounds".  Then each hit that exceeds the BIV reduces the figure by 1 until the zombie is finally blasted to pieces and removed.  Any hit to the head that exceeds the BIV kills instantly.

To calculate a good number of zombies to field, simply add up all the Speed values of the characters facing off against them.  The total is a good number of zombies to field.

To calculate the BIV and number of wounds to give each zombie, divide the total number of zombies by the total number of PCs.

So let's say you have three players, each with 2 characters and Speeds of 5, 5, 4, 4, 4 and 3, that would mean you want 25 zombies, each with a BIV of 4 and 4 wounds.

Any scenario that actually requires the PCs to get out an engage with the zombies (or each other) is a good one.  Place a vital datacache at the heart of a zombie plague outbreak, with three parties vying to control it.  Or position a getaway shuttle at one end of the board with only enough seats to carry three PCs to safety (that's always a good one!).

R.

R.

[Jarrik32]

My advice is to focus on the relentless nature of the zombies, i.e. annoying stubborn but fairly squishy and of course awe- inspiringly stupid

here's my suggested traits in addition to the ones suggested above:

Relentless - never take any psychological tests that would remove the character from play (i.e. completely crippling them is the only way to 'stop' them).

Undead - never takes any physical fatigue based tests. (unique poisons, acids etc. still work) e.g. system shock.

Flammable - Double damage from fire (no rolling to try to put it out either)

Beyond stupid - GMs discretion.

for beyond stupid a good example is a civilian hiding behind a door, even if there is a easier (or even visible) method of entry e.g. an open door on the other side of the room they won't move towards it unless led there. Another example is walking off a cliff to kill a guy on the other side. Or no reloading if the zombie has a pistol, the list goes on for appropriate uses.

Of course you'd have to be careful with physical stats if you give it these traits, as an invulnerable zombie that keeps going even after it's legs and an arm is blown off could be an issue.

Skill wise I recommend 20s 30s as even a civilian has combat better skills than a zombie, sentience does have its upsides.

For damage I recommend as simple a system as possible as most 'fatal' wounds (for humans at least) don't do that much tissue damage e.g. a shot through the heart is meaningless if it isn't beating in the first place.

[Kallidor]

Beyond stupid - GMs discretion.

That's a really good suggestion. Whenever a Zombie sees a character they head in a strait line for that character even if it means they walk off a cliff or into a window et cetera. When the Zombie has no characters in line of sight they just wander around, heading in a random direction. Afterall, what's a Zombie attack without a little humour?

[InquisitorHeidfeld]

Flammable - Double damage from fire (no rolling to try to put it out either)

Why?
It's not like they've been preserved in Naptha...
Zombies are likely to be generally damper than your average human - because moisture which would normally be locked up in their necrotic cells is free to leak into the intramuscular and subcutaneous zones.

More tellingly, they are going to suffer no real damage to their lungs and they aren't going to feel the pain of a burn - so unless you hit them squarely enough to burn great chunks of them away your flamer is all but useless...

In fact, in the immortal words of the Zombie Survival Guide, you're substituting a dead bdy which wants to eat your brains for a dead body which wants to eat your brains...on fire!

[Draco Ferox]

Ah, zombies. My favourite horror movie element of all time.

To represent them in game, I give them low stats, but the following special rules/abilities:
Frenzy; nerves of steel; force of will; 2 points of ablative armour on all locations, and they take D3 extra damage location injury due to their rotting flesh.

To make things interesting, I do not stop zombies from running toward sources of brains, but do not allow them to sprint, to give their source of brainy nourishment a chance to do something. They could have the aetheric fibrosis rule (see 'the fickle warp' article) to represent the damage running does to them. To me, running zombies is more realistic (and challenging) than the random Z-shuffle.

For purposes of death, a zombie counts triple toughness when calculating the damage which must be inflicted to kill it (this is assuming that a zombie has a T of around 30 or so, but DEFINITELY not for a zombie with a high toughness!)

I also like forcing random nerve checks on characters, and having random bits of kit scattered about the maps, so players balance the risk of moving around a lot against the rewards of some better gear. Of course, some of this kit will be on dead bodies, not all of which might be dead in the conventional sense.

For handling damage, I would suggest that zombies ignore all damage that fails to exceed their BIV.

I like this, as it encompasses the nature of zombies.

Good luck with the campaign!

[InquisitorHeidfeld]

Necro much?

(Irony intended  ).