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Factions beyond the Inquisition

Started by DapperAnarchist, June 10, 2011, 12:46:28 AM

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Ulgavitch

QuoteThey frequently actually do. As much as I hate citing Abnett, one of the short linking stories in the Eisenhorn series is based around a load of veterans who were discharged at the end of a campaign.

I tend to figure it along the lines of WWI and WWII (given the IG are more based on the World Wars than modern armed forces). While over half of all combatants in both wars were killed, wounded or missing in action, people did come home at the end of the war.

I was under the impression - perhaps wrongly - that Imperial Guard regiments were tithed, then transported to some god-forsaken warzone at the ends of the galaxy. If it was a war of defence, then once that was completed then they would head off somewhere else. If it was a war of conquest, then the envitably few survivors got to settle on that world as a reward.

But, here is the crucial part, they are mostly never reinforced from their home planet (notable exceptions include the First Born etc) and they never return. It often written in many of the Guard codexs that one of the things an Imperial Guardsman always has is slowly fading memory of home. The regiments are kept 'on the line' as it were until they are used up, amalgamated or scattered. The simple logistics of sending guardmans home would be so expensive and complex that I can't imagine they do it much. It's a point of pride for the First Born that they still have the link with their home planet, despite the difficulties. This is especially true when the longer you keep veterans in the fight, the more combat effective they become (to a point, and then they break.)

The use of amalagamated regiments should show this, in that the survivors of one regiment aren't discharged, but combined into another regiment. If there were any terms of service, then the poor sods would probably just be sent home.

Now, that's not to say veterans haven't headed home through other means, sacrficing their life savings to do so. But the numbers which would return compared to the number that go, and in my mind that is hundreds of returnees vs. millions tithed, would be hugely disproptionate. People would remember that.

I've always equated the Imperial Guard to the Red Army in WW2, especially in the way they fight (throwing more men at a problem) That was a very utilitarian army, where replacement equipment for frontline troops would have come from the dead. New equipment was saved for formation kitting out at the rear. Because of this utilitarian outlook, the difficulties and vageries of warp travel and the fact that transports send people home could be used to bring soldiers to the front. Plus what I hazily remember from old codex's adds the feeling that in the Grim Dark of the 41st millenium, for your average guardsmans, life's tough and then you die.

All that said, I did really enjoy the Abnett short story that you're talking about ,Dave. They published it in a very old copy of WD.... way back when.       

MarcoSkoll

Quote from: SpanielBear on June 13, 2011, 08:31:29 AMGiven the huge numbers of recruits the Imperium has available, and the risks of warp travel, which do you suppose is the preffered option- send your victorious soldiers home to peaceful planets, risking the ships that deliver them, and which could lead to corruption spreading when they returned? Or once the tired, old regiment is loaded open the airlocks, wait half an hour, then send in the cleaning servitors and proceed to the new recruits?
Look at it another way. Is it better to show that no-one ever comes back and your soldiers haven't got a hope in hell of ever coming home?

It'd destroy morale from day one.

Quote from: Ulgavitch on June 13, 2011, 02:07:41 PMThe use of amalgamated regiments should show this, in that the survivors of one regiment aren't discharged, but combined into another regiment.
I actually think amalgamated regiments would be fairly rare. Different training, dialect, rank structure and such would make such a regiment horribly inefficient.

There is a point where a veteran's experience is outweighed by their ageing, the depletion of their regiment, the incoherence of a combined regiment... and it becomes more efficient to give their bunk space, rations and equipment to a youthful and coherent regiment instead.
S.Sgt Silva Birgen: "Good evening, we're here from the Adeptus Defenestratus."
Captain L. Rollin: "Nonsense. Never heard of it."
Birgen: "Pick a window. I'll demonstrate".

GW's =I= articles

SpanielBear

"Join the most mighty and Holy Imperial Guard! Meet exotic people and Xenos! Kill those who would threaten your homes and families! Marvel at the new worlds YOU will be bringing into the Emperor's glorious light! Oh yes, my boys, it's a fine life in the Rynn's Worlds Redshirts!"
A combination of vids and holos of how wonderful life is to be a conquering settler, accompanied by the liberal application of commissars, and I imagine morale amongst recruits wouldn't be any more awful than that of those ranks of 16 year-olds signing up for WW1. Especially if there are no grizzled veterans telling horrible stories about how they lost their other leg...

Returning to topic, however, maybe here's another point of factionalism amongst the munitorium:

Imperium Custodibus
The veterans of the Guard are its strongest weapon, and represent years of experience. Why waste this  valuable resource on further brutal campaigns? The Imperium Custodibus promotes the use of veterans as drill sergeants and PDF commanders, ensuring that the planets of the Imperium as it stands are as strong as possible.

Semper Pugnatio
Why do we rest when the darkness surrounds us? In the golden age, the entire galaxy bowed before the emperor; and now we suffer the filth of the universe to crawl and gibber in his divine kingdom! No rest, no respite, a guardsman marches ever forward in the Emperor's name, giving his all, his life, that the Imperium be once again worthy of its master!

Fortes Innocentes
A well forged sword can be wielded for many years, but all blades become blunt in time. Rusted, dented, they eventually shatter when needed most. As it is with swords, so is it with men. Why risk the fortunes of a battle, a war, a crusade, by relying on grey-bearded old fools? Let them go to the ultimate reward, now they have served with honour, and let the new forged armies of the Emperor march in their place. After all, a soldier fights all the fiercer when she has comrades to avenge...

What do people think?
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Easy E

I would be interested in exploring some Rogue Trader style factions too?  For example, many Rogue Traders can be part of Cartels or Trading Houses, would these have some "guidelines" for what was and wasn't exceptable trade? 

For the IG, most Regiments never come home.  This may vary somewhat based on the home planet.  Now, I'm going to go into speculation land with some support....

1. Localized conflicts where the guard is involved may allow survivors to return once the objective is met.  Dan Abnett's story is a good example.   

2. Amalgamated units are common, see Desert Raiders, two Tallarn regiments from warring clans are combined to make one unit, and a busy Commissar.  This way, decimated units contiue to serve. 

3. Rebel Winter makes reference to Vostoryans serving for life, but also getting reinforcements from home. 

4. 15 Hours references a guardsmen winning a lottery that allows him to get out of the guard once he is too old to serve. 


Now logically, there must be a point where a unit is disbanded either due to casualties, age, fitness for service, etc.  I think it is morelikely that when guardsmen reach thsi point, they are just left on whatever rock they happen to be on at the time.     
 
^Cheapskate^

DapperAnarchist

Well, I had an idea for a religiously influenced trader group (Chartist, rather than Rogue) who became an outright religious order, dedicated to laying the remains of the heroes of the Imperium to rest, wherever they fall.

An explanation for Abnett's story may be a difference between troops raised and transferred on the orders of the Munitorium (and, above them, the High Lords) and those raised and transferred by the order of a Governor or Sector Governor...
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