Factions beyond the Inquisition

[DapperAnarchist]

I was thinking recently about how factionalism might appear outside the Inquisition. Obviously, the Mechanicus is full of factions, as is the Ministorium, but there could be other ones. At a quick thought-

Arbites - The Judges could be divided between the "Genesisians" and the "Lex Vitalians" (cribbed from the Originalist and Living Document positions in American Constitutional theory). They're basically the same as the RAW (Read As Written) and RAI (Read As Intended) positions on rulebooks. The Enforcers might be divided between those who see the planting of evidence and use of summary execution, etc, as within their rights as the instruments of Imperial Law and those who think that the methods of the heretic are not the methods of the loyal man - Radical vs Puritan

The Munitorium - I thought a good division here might be between the general status quo, and the "Armyists" who think that the conversion from Imperial Army to Imperial Guard reflected a failure of will after the Scouring, and an unfair punishment on the Army, which did not lead the Heresy.

[Shannow]

I like this idea a lot.

In terms of Arbites the first thing that jumped to mind was the Mortiurge character path in the Radical handbook for DH.

And genrally I think this area is one ripe for DH book exploitatiopn for rich background. Will have to have a good read and see what ideas I can come up with.

I admit I'm not up to date with the eccleisiarchy  but it does seem to be an area that has always remained relatively unplumbed for the depths of its divisions. Is this right or am I just missing stuff? I mean there are obviously the redemptionists but other than that I'm abit stumped in terms of ideology, as the sisters and such seem completely separate other than parts of the same whole...

[Ulgavitch]

I admit I'm not up to date with the eccleisiarchy  but it does seem to be an area that has always remained relatively unplumbed for the depths of its divisions. Is this right or am I just missing stuff? I mean there are obviously the redemptionists but other than that I'm abit stumped in terms of ideology, as the sisters and such seem completely separate other than parts of the same whole...

I always understood it as being factional even on a planetary scale, let alone a interplanetary scale. It would be hard to have anything orthodox when one planet might worship the Emperor in the guise of the sun, while another one believes only prayer brings His majesty closer and thus shuns all edifices, while a third believes that the Emperor rides within their horses and so they should be treated with reverence...

Because this cult of the Emperor is pretty much infinitely malleable, it's hard to have anything approaching an orthodoxy. Imperial preachers are taught to subvert already existing belief systems, not supplant them, so worship would take a variety of forms.  That means that schisms in that planets own belief system would be rife. I would guess even the great Cardinal worlds given over to the Ecclesiarchy have major doctrinal difference between them, and they should represent the high point of a unified cult.

So there would be factions, but then factions within factions, depending on that particular belief system. Multiply that by a million worlds and you've got some so broken up that it barely functions as all of the same faith!

I've actually always wondered why the Sisters of Battle don't have a lot more internal conflicts, because we see in our world how easy it is for people to take up arms over the tiniest difference in belief... 

[DapperAnarchist]

DH contains some interesting Ministorium factions, like the Temple Tendency. More generally, Gav divided the Karis Cephalon Ecclesiarchy between the Lucids, a puritanical group, and a collection of minority movements, including one who believe that luxury and extravagance praise the Emperor. For my Keltani Subsector, I created the Imperator Scriptor movement who believe that the Emperor's words outweigh his deeds, and must be transmitted by intellectual thought and rote copying. So, a bookish cult. The Ecclesiarchy, post-Thor, is specifically designed to contain and pacify factional disagreements. The Sisters own faith may well be very mystical, emphasising the multiplicity and mystery of the Emperor, similar to a xenophobic Baha'i, which makes them suitable to act as the neutral arbiters. That, or they think of themselves as the adults who know the truth, and the rest are the children who's foolishness can be tolerated.

However, within the Missionaria and the Sororitas, you might get a division on the worthiness of out-and-out heretics for conversion. Those who worship false gods or no god are obviously suitable for conversion, but what about those who worship the Dark Gods?

I think DH already has a factional division in the Administratum over whether old data can be cleared to make way for new data...

The Mortiurge would be the Radical position taken to extremes - the Xanthite of the Arbites, with others being just a little radical, like Thorians.

The Telepathica might have divisions similar to those in the Mechanicus - in the interests of expanding human power, how far from the path laid out by the Emperor can one go? The Calpurnira book Blind features a very sinister Telepathica related faction, who think they've found the solution to the Psyker problem, as it were... Spoiler - they want to lobotomise every single psyker who passes through the Blackships, without hesitation. Spoiler over.

[thanks Marco, this screen is so reflective and dirty, its hard enough to read the white text, so I didn't notice]

[MarcoSkoll]

I've actually always wondered why the Sisters of Battle don't have a lot more internal conflicts, because we see in our world how easy it is for people to take up arms over the tiniest difference in belief...

Certainly. We have a fair analogue in even our own world - Christianity, Judaism and Islam are all based around the same Abrahamic god and similar core morals, yet there are no shortages of wars, or of a willingness to use each other as scapegoats.

With the millions of interpretations of the Imperial faith, I think the internal conflicts within the Imperium are probably heavily understated.

Spoiler

The background isn't black - it's actually a very faint and dark orange. You need to use #1e1c1b if you want to hide it properly.

EDIT: Misspelt "Judaism".

[Ulgavitch]

Certainly. We have a fair analogue in even our own world - Christianity, Judiasm and Islam are all based around the same Abrahamic god and similar core morals, yet there are no shortages of wars, or of a willingness to use each other as scapegoats.

With the millions of interpretations of the Imperial faith, I think the internal conflicts within the Imperium are probably heavily understated.

Bit OT:
Thanks Marco, I think you've just given me the inspiration of my next Inq. campaign. After all, what is more Inquisitor than two factions, both allied with the Imperium but still fighting it out over a matter of faith? You can create all kinds of  issues for both puritans and radicals to cope with, while allowing warband of zealots and loonies to have it out. Especially considering there may actually be no xenos, daemonic or heretical involvement at all!

Equally, I might run it as a campaign day for the Great European Conclave (tm), when-ever I get round arranging that!  If anyone's interested now, I'll put together a campaign pack for them to use because I don't currently have the players around.   

On topic:

Do you think that the militant ordos would have doctrinal conflicts with each other? Are the forces of the Adeptus Soritas a uniform whole in their belief, or is it the difference between the Benedictine and Franciscan orders? Especially during certain points of history, if you'd armed those orders they would've certainly gone for each other!

I wonder if 'loving the Emperor' is fundamental enough to stop them fighting between themselves. After all, if Space Marine chapters fight amongst themselves, doesn't everyone? 

[Morcus]

I don't know if the following will add much but Factionalism is probably a fundamental part of being human, it's in our nature. It's everywhere, think about the people you work with or went to school with.

This is a very rich seam for ideas and has given me some inspiration towards something I was already working on.

People tend to put aside small differences in times of need so it would be quite intresting to explore the opposite and look at how this sort of thing would effect a world that was under very little threat from aliens, Daemons and Heretics.

[DapperAnarchist]

Do you think that the militant ordos would have doctrinal conflicts with each other? Are the forces of the Adeptus Soritas a uniform whole in their belief, or is it the difference between the Benedictine and Franciscan orders? Especially during certain points of history, if you'd armed those orders they would've certainly gone for each other!

Well, my favourite quick explanation of 40K is that it's the Thirty Years War... IN SPACE! so doctrinal conflict should be quite present.

People tend to put aside small differences in times of need so it would be quite intresting to explore the opposite and look at how this sort of thing would effect a world that was under very little threat from aliens, Daemons and Heretics.

Being a cynic, I don't necessarily think that people put aside differences. Take a look at prison camps - some of the Japanese prisoner camps housing civilians after the fall of Singapore were examples of solidarity, commitment, and hard work. Some were hellish as much because of the inmates as the wardens - people would screw each other over just for a crust of bread. When there is next to nothing to win, the fights can sometimes just become worse. Certainly, any world that is free of external threat would have internal power issues over time... a possible option for a Radical Inquisitor, in fact.

[SpanielBear]

This topic is fascinating, and I think exceedingly inspirational. The Ecclisiarchy, Arbites and PDF all keep appearing in the campaigns I play as agents of Imperial Authority, which just end up becoming tools for whichever Inquisitor happens to encounter them first. Having some degree of factionalism inherent in these systems which isn't instantly heretical makes for some nice conflict.
That said, I've always been interested in the civilian life of an Imperial Citizen. In an empire of many trillions, an entire lifetime can be spent without any real encounter of the full horrors of the 41st millenium outside of a vid screen.

[DapperAnarchist]

Perhaps not the full horror, but think about our world. Even in its most peaceful moments, every town will have at least someone who's been to war. America has had military units in a war for most of its existence, Britain too. I think that even a world not actively at war, if it has interstellar shipping, would be a bit like the system in Firefly - mostly civilised, but with horrific pirates on the outskirts, various internecine skirmishes, crime wars, the lot. Civilian life is militarised, or feral.

[Ulgavitch]

Perhaps not the full horror, but think about our world. Even in its most peaceful moments, every town will have at least someone who's been to war. America has had military units in a war for most of its existence, Britain too. I think that even a world not actively at war, if it has interstellar shipping, would be a bit like the system in Firefly - mostly civilised, but with horrific pirates on the outskirts, various internecine skirmishes, crime wars, the lot. Civilian life is militarised, or feral.

The worst part of it, I think, is the Imperial Tithe. From the averages citizens perspective, they would be told 'Go and Fight for the Imperium - a hero of the Realm of Man' - absolute propaganda and people would know it. Not because they'd been educated but because no-one from the Guard Regiments ever comes back. Ever.

How many families or societies are going to give up a fair chunk of their best generations - their children - to never see them again? You might as well refer to them being dead as soon as they leave, and people would know this. The tithe isn't glorious at all, it's effectively genocide. 

Wouldn't most people therefore hate the Imperium on principal? That could be the root of a lot of factionalism. I wonder what would happen if a relatively humane Inquisitor saw the mess the Imperium was making, and actually tried to improve things, as he saw it. Even in the grim darkness, you must still get idealists. 

Well, my favourite quick explanation of 40K is that it's the Thirty Years War... IN SPACE! so doctrinal conflict should be quite present.

Everything's better ... IN SPACE! That's actually a really, really good shorthand, because it both encompasses the chaos of the situations, and the utterly murderous horror of its reality. 

It also allows for peaceful areas - considering that, I think, only 10%-15% of the Imperiums worlds are at war, and this was probably the same for the peaceful areas of the Holy Roman Empire. Therefore hundreds of thousands of worlds would know of the wars, but never experience them. 

Having some degree of factionalism inherent in these systems which isn't instantly heretical makes for some nice conflict.

If Inquisitor is about the shades of grey within the Imperium, then this is the ultimate conflict. If there is no heresy, then how do you have any method of resolution, other than high-handed militancy? It's not the strength of your idea, it's the strength of your arm. I think there are fascinating ideas her which you can really apply to an Inquisitor campaign.

[MarcoSkoll]

Not because they'd been educated but because no-one from the Guard Regiments ever comes back. Ever.

They frequently actually do. As much as I hate citing Abnett, one of the short linking stories in the Eisenhorn series is based around a load of veterans who were discharged at the end of a campaign.

I tend to figure it along the lines of WWI and WWII (given the IG are more based on the World Wars than modern armed forces). While over half of all combatants in both wars were killed, wounded or missing in action, people did come home at the end of the war.

While multiple regiments/companies often get wiped out, some people will live out their conscriptions or make it through to the end of a campaign and get to go home (or even colonise the shiny new planet they helped conquer.)

[Morcus]

I second what marco said, I would reckon a large portion of Guardsmen would eventually return home. The working life of a guardsmen isn't going to be particulary long and a large part of that will be taken up with travel and guarding things that aren't under attack. Units are all drawn from the same world and If I remember rightly don't usually see much in the way of new men to replace losses so would likely be retired at a regimental level which would justify taking them home.

[SpanielBear]

This depends again on what level of Propaganda  is truth, and which is a lie. I remember reading fluff from various sources which stated that once a campaign had ended, guardsmen were often deemed to have become too corrupted by whatever frightful daemons/aliens/sun-eating terrors they had been fighting against, and so the entire regiment would need to be purged.
Given the huge numbers of recruits the Imperium has available, and the risks of warp travel, which do you suppose is the preffered option- send your victorious soldiers home to peaceful planets, risking the ships that deliver them, and which could lead to corruption spreading when they returned? Or once the tired, old regiment is loaded open the airlocks, wait half an hour, then send in the cleaning servitors and proceed to the new recruits?

[DapperAnarchist]

That "execution of all tainted personnel" is really only for Daemonic attacks. The other "they don't come home" is in wars of conquest, where the regiments stay where they stop, and rule it as a new aristocracy, Norman style. However, sending experienced soldiers home to protect their own home world might mean you don't have to send troops to that world next time there's an invasion, as there's already an army waiting for them.

Most wars wouldn't end up with corrupted soldiers, in a dangerous way. Would fighting Orks make you more likely to think Orks and other Xenos are good?