Author Topic: What is the "Conclave Standard" character?  (Read 21491 times)

Offline Koval

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Re: What is the "Conclave Standard" character?
« Reply #15 on: September 01, 2009, 07:17:11 AM »
It makes sense that high-ranking members of the AdMech would just download combat skills straight into their brain rather than bothering to train.
Great, now all I can see is a Magos doing jump kicks with a slow motion whirling effect.
hey, don't knock it, he could be a Magos Militant


Quote from: Inquisitor Cade
if you look at the Imperial guard, many, if not most, officers have power weapons. They are not so rare as all that. An Inquisitor could request one directly from the administratum and get one quickly. The same goes for bolters and even plasma weapons.
Well, that's because they're on the front lines; it's quite obvious that they'll actually be armed as befits their status. I would even go as far as to suggest that the Imperial Guard, the Space Marines and the Adepta Sororitas get more of a priority on power weaponry, bolters etc. than the Inquisition does, because let's face it, Inquisitors aren't there to operate solely on the front lines.

Offline Dosdamt

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Re: What is the "Conclave Standard" character?
« Reply #16 on: September 01, 2009, 10:41:18 AM »
One would suggest that the Inquisitorial Remit / Power would mean that an Inquisitor could 'suggest' to Imperial Guard officers that they hand over said weapons.

There is no higher priority than the Inquisition, save the Emperor.

If an Inquisitor *wants* something, he / she has the power to get it. End of.

It's just a matter of applying the right pressure to the right person.
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Offline Inquisitor Cade

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Re: What is the "Conclave Standard" character?
« Reply #17 on: September 01, 2009, 11:56:23 AM »
Right, I've updated my takes on the archetypes to take into account my misconceptions about the admech, and I'll buffed Wp for a few others too. I've left Sg alone as nobody has objected to my take on it so I'm assuming that is isn't completely wrong.

I wanted to qualify my archetypes that firstly the profiles are entirely un augmented by bionics or electro grafts etc, and second that the background should come first. If your guard Liutenant was a circus trickshot before he joined up then he should have a much higher Bs than the arcetype.
1337 Inquisitors post should stop people falling into the 'my character is a decent swordsman therefore Ws 80' trap. I hope that mine will stop the 'my character was in the guard therefore Ws/Bs 70' or the like, but what it shouldn't cause is 'oh no, my character can't be the superbly strong character I invisioned him as because he is a bounty hunter and therefore liminted to S 60'.
« Last Edit: September 01, 2009, 12:00:43 PM by Inquisitor Cade »
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Offline MarcoSkoll

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Re: What is the "Conclave Standard" character?
« Reply #18 on: September 01, 2009, 12:28:05 PM »
Hey, don't knock it, he could be a Magos Militant
I dunno, I'm half tempted to make such a character now.

On the note of Army vs. Inquisitorial use... I doubt Inquisitors would have trouble finding a couple of bolters or power weapons. Finding ammunition for a bolter in great quantity wherever they are is a larger issue.

The big thing to remember though is that bolters and power swords are distinctive and notable weapons. Having one immediately marks you out, and is likely to ruin a lot of investigations, so that's an immediate reason not to carry one.
They're also heavy items that you wouldn't want to be carrying all the time. The wise Inquisitor would always be armed, but they'll only seldom need it. Who wants to carry around a bulky weapon on the less than 1% chance it will come in useful? A smaller, less powerful weapon will probably be fine, and it's a fraction of the bother to carry.

Also, carrying a bolt weapon would probably preclude you from carrying other firearms - so what do you do if you need to merely incapacitate the bugger who's running off? A bolter has no subtle setting - shoot someone and it'll be pretty fatal pretty promptly. (Mind you, nor can most guns be used subtly, but this is fiction, so we'll let that slide).

These aren't concerns to the soldier - extra lethality and lack of subtlety aren't a big deal, and in fact are pretty desirable, and the workings of the Departmento Munitorum deal with ammo supply neatly enough.
It's not that an Inquisitor couldn't have these things - to tell the truth, most probably do have a bolter or two in their personal armouries - but that they're unlikely to choose to carry them around on a regular basis.
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Offline Koval

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Re: What is the "Conclave Standard" character?
« Reply #19 on: September 01, 2009, 01:38:13 PM »
One would suggest that the Inquisitorial Remit / Power would mean that an Inquisitor could 'suggest' to Imperial Guard officers that they hand over said weapons.

There is no higher priority than the Inquisition, save the Emperor.

If an Inquisitor *wants* something, he / she has the power to get it. End of.

It's just a matter of applying the right pressure to the right person.
Well, ultimate authority notwithstanding, the rest of my suggestion is still valid -- Inquisitors have the option of being exceptions, but the remainder still have to comply...
« Last Edit: September 01, 2009, 01:42:24 PM by Koval »

Offline Dosdamt

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Re: What is the "Conclave Standard" character?
« Reply #20 on: September 01, 2009, 02:10:27 PM »
Again, I would challenge that assessment. The Inquisition is the highest authority - Space Marines / AdMech are admittedly exempt from the majority of their power, but both have access to munitions through their own supply routes.

Anything else is fair game. If an Inquisitor really wanted, he could wander into any Departmento Munitorum facility and have his henchmen run rampant picking and choosing the very best gear they fancy.

Now, whether operational constraints - i.e. the Inquisitor wishes to remain largely anonymous etc - affect his ability to procure items is an entirely different challenge to saying that some grunt Imperial Guard officer is going to get priority on a power weapon just because he is about to head into the meat grind front line vs. an Inquisitor requesting the same power weapon.

If that's what you meant, or that you meant the others - i.e. rogue traders and what not - have to comply with the procurement procedures and effectively get what they are given - then yes, I agree with that.

But on Inquisitors waiting in line for anything - and being de-prioritised - they can ALWAYS push to the front of the queue.

On a side note, I want a Rosette now. I hate bloody queues....
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Offline Kaled

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Re: What is the "Conclave Standard" character?
« Reply #21 on: September 01, 2009, 07:00:22 PM »
I've left Sg alone as nobody has objected to my take on it so I'm assuming that is isn't completely wrong.
I wouldn't say your take on it is wrong, but I would still disagree with some of the values you've used - a Magos ought to have an Sg on a par with a scholarly Inquisitor.

The other issue I see, is one I mentioned in a thread elsewhere - in my experience, a lot of people at Conclave events use characters that are more powerful than the archetypes you've listed here.  1337inquisitor's guidelines are still about right for what people tend to use, but I'd say that in practice a lot of characters are better at more things than the profiles you've listed - i.e. the characters tend to be exceptional over and above what one might expect just going by which archetype they fit into.  Or perhaps it's just that very few people use the less powerful archetypes, i.e. there are almost no 'recent conscripts', but are a lot of 'veteran sergeants'...  I suspect it's a combination of the two.
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Offline Inquisitor Cade

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Re: What is the "Conclave Standard" character?
« Reply #22 on: September 01, 2009, 07:41:07 PM »
That is to be expected as on the whole only exceptional examples of an archetype will be involved with an Inquisitor and thus in a game. The exception should be with Inquisitor characters. If most of them are significantyly higher than the arcetypes in many stats then clearly I've gone wrong somewhere.

I'd argue that a magos is an advanced rank within the admech but even assuming that promotion is based entirely on merit, which I doubt but am not well enough informed to say they come from a much, much smaller catchment area than Inquisitors, which are an even more advanced and selective than the senior echelons of the Admech. On top of this th scholarly Inquisitors will be the brightest of the bunch.
In practice tech priest will likely have an augmented Sg, like a binary cortex or something more mundain like a 'logician circuit implant' or whatever, but they aren't likely to be as naturally gifted as Inquisitors as a rule.
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Offline Kaled

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Re: What is the "Conclave Standard" character?
« Reply #23 on: September 01, 2009, 08:14:28 PM »
The more I think about it, the less I'm convinced that using Sg as a measure of raw intelligence without reference to knowledge is all that useful.  I think sagacity is better used as measure of intelligence and 'everyday' knowledge - by that I mean the common things that might crop up in a game.  Characters can be given bonuses when it comes to making Sg tests in areas for which they have particular specialist knowledge (or penalties when they have little knowledge).  Otherwise, everytime a character comes to make a Sg test the GM has to decide what bonus he should get on account of his knowledge; whereas including 'everyday' knowledge in Sg means that such bonuses/penalties are the exception rather than the rule.

Going back to the sample profiles - I'd split the AdMech ones down differently, perhaps something like this;
 - Tech-Adept - to represent the fairly lowly tech-priests; Enginseers, Lexmechanics, Transmechanics etc.
 - Tech-Priest - to represent the middle-ranking tech-priests, ones who are initiated into the deeper mysteries of technology.
 - Magos - to represent the senior tech-priests, ones privy to all manner of secret knowledge.
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Offline Koval

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Re: What is the "Conclave Standard" character?
« Reply #24 on: September 01, 2009, 10:27:22 PM »
The more I think about it, the less I'm convinced that using Sg as a measure of raw intelligence without reference to knowledge is all that useful.  I think sagacity is better used as measure of intelligence and 'everyday' knowledge - by that I mean the common things that might crop up in a game.  Characters can be given bonuses when it comes to making Sg tests in areas for which they have particular specialist knowledge (or penalties when they have little knowledge).  Otherwise, everytime a character comes to make a Sg test the GM has to decide what bonus he should get on account of his knowledge; whereas including 'everyday' knowledge in Sg means that such bonuses/penalties are the exception rather than the rule.
Just roll the problem bits through Dark Heresy style RP.

Offline Kaled

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Re: What is the "Conclave Standard" character?
« Reply #25 on: September 01, 2009, 10:39:37 PM »
Just roll the problem bits through Dark Heresy style RP.
You're going to have to rephrase that - I have no idea what you mean.  :-[
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Offline Inquisitor Cade

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Re: What is the "Conclave Standard" character?
« Reply #26 on: September 01, 2009, 11:17:40 PM »
If we dodge around the exact definition of 'everyday knowledge' for now, which character archetypes would you say would have notably more or less everyday knowledge than normal?

Quote
- Tech-Adept - to represent the fairly lowly tech-priests; Enginseers, Lexmechanics, Transmechanics etc.
 - Tech-Priest - to represent the middle-ranking tech-priests, ones who are initiated into the deeper mysteries of technology.
 - Magos - to represent the senior tech-priests, ones privy to all manner of secret knowledge.

Right-o, I'll update that on the off chance that anyone might find my archetypes list useful.
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Offline Koval

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Re: What is the "Conclave Standard" character?
« Reply #27 on: September 02, 2009, 08:31:48 AM »
Just roll the problem bits through Dark Heresy style RP.
You're going to have to rephrase that - I have no idea what you mean.  :-[
Basically, roleplay it -- get into character, literally throw your players a puzzle or something mid-game and let them work it out, and then respond accordingly depending on how convincingly they work out a solution. If you're not sure how to work out the Sg test, this is the most immediate work-around that springs to mind.

If I explained that badly, then I apologise.
« Last Edit: September 02, 2009, 08:34:36 AM by Koval »

Offline Adlan

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Re: What is the "Conclave Standard" character?
« Reply #28 on: September 02, 2009, 10:51:07 AM »
Thats fine if you have smart people playing smart characters, but if you set a puzzle for someone who's awful at them, despite the fact their character is ment to be a genius, then it gets tricky.

Or the reverse, someone's playing a character as thick as two short planks, but is actually really good at puzzles IRL, then they can get an unfair advantage.

Offline Koval

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Re: What is the "Conclave Standard" character?
« Reply #29 on: September 02, 2009, 07:05:06 PM »
Then there has to be a bit of give and take on the part of the players / GM, as appropriate to the situation.