Author Topic: What is the "Conclave Standard" character?  (Read 20089 times)

Offline Kaled

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Re: What is the "Conclave Standard" character?
« Reply #60 on: February 24, 2010, 05:21:09 PM »
Trying to give advice based on the opinion of the person you are advising is redundant, as they have already taken their own opinion into account.
I get what you're saying, but I'd argue that you're not trying to give someone advice based on their opinion - you'd be giving them advice based on the contaxt in which they use, or want to use, their character.  There's no point treating all characters on the basis of how you'd feel if you came up against them in a game - if someone's group plays using characters based on the 'Rulebook standard' (and it's usually easy to see whether they do, even if they don't say), then giving them advice based on the 'Conclave standard' is rather pointless.  On the other hand, if someone is designing a character to bring to the Spring Conclave, then it makes perfect sense to tailor advice based on the level that other attendees will be using.

Quote
I have no problem with people wanting games with powerful warbands, but I think that the best way to do that is to take powerful characters, rather than by arbitrarily buffing all the stats of a weaker character.
There's still the point that those people who do play by the 'Rulebook standard' could justifiably argue that it's their stats that are appropriate, and 'Conclave standard' ones are too low - there's a percieved inconsistency in the rulebook, and no real way of telling which is 'correct', only differing opinions.  That all said, 'Rulebook standard' and 'Conclave standard' aren't that different IMHO, certainly not to the extent that the two are inconsistent.  I've played games where my expert shot is outclassed by a character my opponent considers to merely be a competant shot - it was slightly annoying, but not to the point that it spoiled my enjoyment of the game.  In fact, I'd say that a player with a 'low level' warband would have more difficulty in a game against a 'high level' one, than a player with a 'Conclave standard' one would have against a 'Rulebook standard' warband.  All of these options are a possibility if you're playing pick-up games, such as at the Spring Conclave, and if it happens then you can either refuse to play or just get on with it and have fun (or have a debate on power-levels and waste valuable gaming time!).
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Offline Ferran

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Re: What is the "Conclave Standard" character?
« Reply #61 on: February 24, 2010, 05:51:12 PM »
Additionally to the above post by Kaled I'd say that even the accepted Conclave norm can vary quite substantially from case to case. I remember reading this profile by Jarrick32 and thinking that it was rather over the top due to a combination of special skills, Balistic skill, gear, and weapon, but wasn't too badly recieved despite the fact that there was no miniature to back it up (which is something that I would consider to be important but that's subjective). I remember this example because at the same time I posted a character with model, which was almost certainly weaker in all respects, but was asked to justify the inclusion of special ammunition.

Offline Kaled

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Re: What is the "Conclave Standard" character?
« Reply #62 on: February 24, 2010, 06:18:40 PM »
it was rather over the top due to a combination of special skills, Balistic skill, gear, and weapon, but wasn't too badly recieved despite the fact that there was no miniature to back it up
It is true that you can get away with a lot more when it comes to a character with a nice model than people would otherwise be happy with.  It's an idea I intend to push to it's limits at some point with my one-man-AdMech-warband idea - a Magos-Militant or Myrmidon of the Ordo Reductor; he'll probably be a bit dull to play and is more of a modelling project than a gaming one, but I imagine that when/if I build him I'll be tempted to try him out in a game at some point...
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Offline Ferran

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Re: What is the "Conclave Standard" character?
« Reply #63 on: February 24, 2010, 06:29:00 PM »
Sounds good. What scale would that be? I have a couple of Defiler kits that I intend to make into those Knight walkers. Since I don't collect IG/marines/admech 28mm to any great degree they'd be an Inquisitor creation.

Offline MarcoSkoll

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Re: What is the "Conclave Standard" character?
« Reply #64 on: February 24, 2010, 09:13:02 PM »
So stats could be 'Conclave Standard' or 'Rulebook Standard'
Well, as far as "Rulebook Standard" one issue I've noted is that some players roll their dice, get a below average roll, then think "well, this character's supposed to be really skilled", and re-roll it because it's not "right".
This of course disregards the fact that the basic random profile already represents the best of the best. Not accepting a below average roll therefore multiplies it further to "the best of the best of the best".

Okay, if you're really going to play that way, but not accepting less than unbelievably exceptional is... well...

...but wasn't too badly received despite the fact that there was no miniature to back it up (which is something that I would consider to be important but that's subjective).
Well, that very much depends on the way people work. 90% of the time, I design the character, drum out the concept and details until I'm happy with them, then make the model to fit those criteria.

Sure, I could wait until I'm done with the model before posting a profile, but then if someone makes a suggestion I like, I may have remodelling/repainting to do - and indeed, if I've got a model, then people might be less inclined to make suggestions for changes.

This approach (which we'll call "Character driven model", or CDM) is the reason I sculpt my characters, because that way, my creativity on the character front won't be stifled by what parts are available.
Yeah, many prefer to have the model before the character ("Model driven character" or MDC) - even I on occasion will make models on a whim.
And every now and again, there's a character where neither really comes first.

In the end, none of these ways is the "right" way.

Before anyone jumps on that "none of them is wrong" statement and tries to twist into the "power level" discussion, I would point out that the two discussions are not the same.
They are both player preferences, but while power levels can't really be mixed, there's no problem with mixing characters which were made one way around or the other.
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Offline Kaled

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Re: What is the "Conclave Standard" character?
« Reply #65 on: February 24, 2010, 09:45:54 PM »
Well, as far as "Rulebook Standard" one issue I've noted is that some players roll their dice, get a below average roll, then think "well, this character's supposed to be really skilled", and re-roll it because it's not "right".
True, people probably sometimes do that if they're rolling a random profile; but we would tell them that if the roll wasn't 'right' for their character then they should change it...  And surely the same is true of Cade's set of 'Conclave standard' profiles - people will look at them and want their characters to be above average so will tend to go with stats above those listed rather than seeing the list as representing an average - I don't see that as being specific to 'Rulebook standard', more to do with the attitude of the player.
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Offline Lucidum

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Re: What is the "Conclave Standard" character?
« Reply #66 on: March 04, 2010, 11:49:14 PM »
It depends on the character you're making but here's my rough estimate of stats


WP/NV

0-20 little to no will
20-35 normal human
35-45 consprict soldier
55-69 Fighter
70s can withstand alot of mental punishment
80s Mentally solid
90s BALLS OF STEEL
100up would spit on a greater daemon's face while naked and unarmed

That last one....so like....he's Beowulf?  ;D

Offline GAZKUL

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Re: What is the "Conclave Standard" character?
« Reply #67 on: January 30, 2011, 05:04:25 PM »
i'll just take the opportunity to bring this thread to the surface and to state my support for 1337's version.
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