Author Topic: Inquisitor Grand Tournament 2013 - 30/03/2013  (Read 19585 times)

Offline Van Helser

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Inquisitor Grand Tournament 2013 - 30/03/2013
« on: April 23, 2012, 04:32:23 PM »
3rd Update:

We have one week to go now, and I thought I'd better put up a checklist of things to bring along next Saturday:

1-3 models representing your player characters.

Character sheets for these models.

Your scenario.

Stationery - pencil, eraser, spare paper.

Gaming aids - D10s, D6s, D100s, measuring tape, reference sheets.

The above are the definite things to have on you, and you'd be advised to bring these things too:

Rulebook.

Annuals, faction sourcebooks, Dark Magenta articles (if you have them, and/or need to refer to them for Special Abilities etc).

A copy of the briefing pack (download from my signature).

A name badge (I have stickers for those who don't manage to make one)

Doors open at 1000, and registration begins at 1010. The first game will start at 1030. You can register up to 1400, but won't get points for the games you've missed and you may not get to run your own scenario.



2nd Update:  Inquisitor Grand Tournament 2013 Briefing Pack Download Link

The Briefing Pack with details of how the day will run and how you can buy your ticket is available to download above.  Tickets are 10 in advance (payable by Paypal or cheque - details in the Briefing Pack).

If anyone has further questions please ask in the thread or PM me.


Update time: Date is Saturday, March 30th 2013.

The tournament will run similarly to previous years, with each participant expected to prepare and run a scenario as a Games Master within a 75 minute time limit.  Each attendee will also take part in three games as a player.  Warbands can contain a maximum of three models, with the GM allowed to decide on which characters can take part in their scenario.  There will be a painting and modelling score so bringing your own models will be a requirement for that!  A full event pack with all details will become available soon.

There will be two separate event for 54mm and 28mm warbands this tournament.  Each event will have separate scoring by the participants involved in their own event.  There will be a special prize for the highest scorer out of both scales.

The following Conclavers have shown an interest in attending.  If you wish to be added to the list please post in thread, giving details of which scale you would like to participate in.

54mm Participants

Marcoskoll
Bloodpact
Kaled
DirkThe1

28mm Participants



Either Scale Participants

Necris (prefers 28mm)
Greenstuff_Gav (prefers 54mm)
Hadriel Caine
DapperAnarchist
Koval (prefers 54mm)



Ladies and gents of The Conclave,

As the new organiser of the Grand Tournament, I thought it best that I create a thread to keep you all updated on the state of play regarding the 2013 Grand Tournament.  Once again, the plan is to have it at Warhammer World in Nottingham.  As for a date; this will be confirmed in due course.  I have been in contact with the Events Team at Warhammer World to request Saturday 30th of March 2013, but won't have a decision until September/October as their calendar operates on a six month rolling schedule.  That should hopefully still be enough notice for people to get organised in time!

I'm going to keep the format quite similar to the events of recent years, so there shouldn't be too many surprises for people.  A rules pack will become available once the date is finalised. 

As I'm going to organising things there will definitely be at least one attendee staying in Nottingham on the Friday and Saturday night.  This creates the possibility of extra games on the Friday, Saturday evening and Sunday morning or some other form of socialising for the community.  Dark Heresy and Rogue Trader games have been considered for the Saturday evening at past events, and this may be a golden opportunity.

One last thing I'm considering is the inclusion of 28mm warbands, but would prefer the input of the community before any decisions are made.  Clearly, 54mm and 28mm models couldn't populate the same table, and I don't think it's my place to tell people what scale they should play in or make anyone bring warbands at two scales.  For the tournament to run at two scales there would have to be enough participants in both scales.  To my mind, that would be 10 entrants at each scale. 

I open that one up to the forum to decide.

Ruaridh
« Last Edit: March 23, 2013, 10:20:20 AM by Van Helser »

Offline Stormgrad

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Re: Inquisitor Grand Tournament 2013
« Reply #1 on: April 23, 2012, 05:12:01 PM »
so since 28mm and 54mm warbands are not going to populate the same table what your actually running is two events, it would have to be two different tournaments with participants picking there scale on sign up, otherwise if players could play at both scales they could potentially be playing two games at once or even Gming two games at once. As a player and GM if i was in a situation where one of the participants of the game (be they GM or Player) where running off to another table to play at the opposing scale i would be marking them very poorly (this is not a scale thing just if your playing a game You are playing A game).


Also how early can you book at your hotel i might stay over night
« Last Edit: April 23, 2012, 05:14:06 PM by Stormgrad »

Offline MarcoSkoll

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Re: Inquisitor Grand Tournament 2013
« Reply #2 on: April 23, 2012, 06:26:07 PM »
Catering for both scales is an interesting idea, but I think it would have its issues.

Firstly, players would be forced to pick a scale (as you can't really let people play at both scales, as players aren't normally allowed to change their warband during the event), and I'm wary of that kicking up a 54 vs 28 issue.

Secondly, I think it'd probably be wise have to have two sets of placings. If it were only one set of placings, then a player could perform equally well but get scored very differently depending on which group they elected to play with. (The different scales do have very different pools of reference to draw from when scoring.)
And we don't really want 54 vs 28 to show up in the scoring either, which this would avert.

Sure, we wouldn't get to hand out a massive mega prize, but the kitty per scale would be pretty similar to what we've had in the prize fund before.
« Last Edit: April 23, 2012, 06:27:41 PM by MarcoSkoll »
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Offline Van Helser

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Re: Inquisitor Grand Tournament 2013
« Reply #3 on: April 26, 2012, 09:37:09 AM »
I was kind of hoping for more feedback by now, but general forum traffic hasn't been too heavy I guess.

I should confirm that in the event of both 28mm and 54mm tables, players would have to commit to one scale or the other.  My other intention was that there would be one final tally of scores - regardless of scale used, everyone would have the same chance to place well in the final outcome.  It's one of the advantages of having a player and GM-based scoring system.

Ruaridh

Offline Koval

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Re: Inquisitor Grand Tournament 2013
« Reply #4 on: April 26, 2012, 10:02:24 AM »
Depending on exactly what the provision is going to be for 28mm, I'm tempted to jump in (in fact, the cell I've posted on the rules board was devised for that purpose)

Offline Stormgrad

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Re: Inquisitor Grand Tournament 2013
« Reply #5 on: April 26, 2012, 12:27:28 PM »
I have to say i agree with Marco on having two sets of Placings, I'm not sure i would feel comfortable in a competition against 28mm players when there is no chance of me playing against those players.

Offline Kaled

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Re: Inquisitor Grand Tournament 2013
« Reply #6 on: April 26, 2012, 12:28:29 PM »
I'm in two minds about whether, if I were still running it, I'd have one score board that covers both scales or keep them separate.

On one hand, in theory everyone is playing the same game and there should be no difference between scales and no reason to separate the scores.  However, having analysed the scores from the last two tournaments, there does seem to be a tendency for more experienced players to give lower scores (presumably because greater experience gives them more ability to discriminate between what is really good and what is pretty average), and as the 54mm community seems to be, on average, more experienced than the 28mm one that could bias the scoring towards 28mm - but the effect may not be pronounced enough to care about.

Probably the thing to do is just try it one way and see how it works. Personally I think I'd allow players to switch scales during the event and relax the rules on how many characters they can bring. (But that would make scheduling games very difficult.)
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Offline Koval

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Re: Inquisitor Grand Tournament 2013
« Reply #7 on: April 26, 2012, 12:36:25 PM »
I'm in two minds about whether, if I were still running it, I'd have one score board that covers both scales or keep them separate.

On one hand, in theory everyone is playing the same game and there should be no difference between scales and no reason to separate the scores.  However, having analysed the scores from the last two tournaments, there does seem to be a tendency for more experienced players to give lower scores (presumably because greater experience gives them more ability to discriminate between what is really good and what is pretty average), and as the 54mm community seems to be, on average, more experienced than the 28mm one that could bias the scoring towards 28mm - but the effect may not be pronounced enough to care about.

Probably the thing to do is just try it one way and see how it works. Personally I think I'd allow players to switch scales during the event and relax the rules on how many characters they can bring. (But that would make scheduling games very difficult.)
Have you had one judge, or a panel, in the past?

Offline Kaled

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Re: Inquisitor Grand Tournament 2013
« Reply #8 on: April 26, 2012, 12:51:20 PM »
The only time we've used judges was for the Painting & Modelling round, but this year I changed it so that participants score each other in all rounds including P&M.

The tournament pack can be downloaded from Dark Magenta if you want to see how the tournament worked this year.
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Offline MarcoSkoll

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Re: Inquisitor Grand Tournament 2013
« Reply #9 on: April 26, 2012, 03:57:37 PM »
However, having analysed the scores from the last two tournaments, there does seem to be a tendency for more experienced players to give lower scores (presumably because greater experience gives them more ability to discriminate between what is really good and what is pretty average), and as the 54mm community seems to be, on average, more experienced than the 28mm one that could bias the scoring towards 28mm
This is largely what I was thinking. It might be counteracted to an extent by less experienced players/GMs getting fewer turns before time runs out and thus losing out on marks as a result, but I think any inherent bias in the scoring is probably a bad thing.

~~~~~

While I don't agree with Stormgrad's views on 28mm being uninteresting (there are some very nice 28mm ranges), I do however agree that it would definitely present challenges if there were mixed scoring. If nothing else, it's the whole point the scales disagree on.
(Also, I do wonder if the players who do throw a lot in with both communities might gain an less than entirely fair advantage because of their familiarity to both.)

Ultimately, I do agree with Stormgrad's last point:
Frankly I would be happier if I was marked and competing against my fellow 54mm players than only marked by 54mm players and competing against 28 and 54mm players.
I support both scales, but the community is still laced with a rivalry, so I'm really not sure I'd want to start an attempt at co-operation with an event that could actually provide a justification for people's prejudices of either scale or the people who play it by scoring them against each other.

It'd be really quite bad if people were thinking things like "Oh great, I lost the P&M round because the X players are biased against Y models" or "You scored him high on what?".

In short, I think it's good to include 28mm in the IGT - this would be a good progression towards unity. I'm not however sure we want to be pitting the two scales against each other at this stage.
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Offline Kaled

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Re: Inquisitor Grand Tournament 2013
« Reply #10 on: April 26, 2012, 04:07:01 PM »
The worst outcome would be if the IGT turns into a competition between Inq28 and Inq54, rather than between Inquisitor players. If a significant number of 54mm players say something like 'working at 54mm is harder because the range is smaller, so I'll mark 54mm models higher than if the same model had been done at 28mm' and a significant number of 28mm players say something like '54mm is easier as the models are bigger, so I'll mark 28mm models higher' then the P&M round is going to be determined by whether there's more 28 or 54mm players - which would be a real shame.

Another option is to separate out the 28mm and 54mm P&M rounds, and award prizes for them seperately to the overall score which would be done on just Player and GM scores.
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Offline Draco Ferox

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Re: Inquisitor Grand Tournament 2013
« Reply #11 on: April 26, 2012, 05:25:09 PM »
I am playing devil's advocate here, but for once I actually take this view. If I was presented with two models, one at 54mm and one at 28mm which were the same, I would score them the same, because each desrves to be recognised for the effort put into it. However, I think that 54mm models are sightly easier to work with (usually) due to the larger sizes of the pieces involved. However, this also means that there is more space available for detailing, trying out blends and other such techniques. If you put one of my 54mm and one of my 28mm models together, the 54mm would likely be more detailed, and have better painting overall.

Kaled, I think that most of the people on here are mature enough to try to make a combined event work and not turn it into a competition, as any attempt at a more unified community would seem to be ideal. I'm really not sure that there is a clear scale winner between 54mm and 28mm, and whilst each have their relative merits and drawbacks, it's generally down to player preference. I also think that regardless of which scale you prefer, you should be able to recognise a good model when you see one. I do agree that whilst people are more likely to score the scale they prefer higher, I think that we should all be able to put aside our instinct to say what we like more is best and to celebrate that inquisitor is still very much alive and kicking.
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Offline Shannow

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Re: Inquisitor Grand Tournament 2013
« Reply #12 on: April 26, 2012, 05:27:21 PM »
Hello, long time no speaky.

Am I the only person who trusts that we as adults (as we mostly are, certainly at tournaments) are not so petty as to try and 'one-up-manship' each other over a scale?

Personally in my experience I have never met a player on here who strikes me as being like that. And I think discussing it as some sort of big problem will only make such a division worse.

Trust in us being united by the emperor and if it all goes wrong then hey, EYHBTIAL :D

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Offline MarcoSkoll

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Re: Inquisitor Grand Tournament 2013
« Reply #13 on: April 26, 2012, 05:49:10 PM »
Unfortunately, while it would be nice to say "Yeah, I think it'll all work out", there is more than no enmity between the two sides. Not usually outright falling out, but the historical conflicts over which scale is better (using various, often mistaken, reasons) now mean that most of the "28mm dominant" players inhabit an entirely different forum!

While I utterly agree that we should be unified - and things are getting better on that front - I do think that at least the first "meeting" should not present any unnecessary opportunities for conflict.

I'll turn up either way though - I have, of course, got a title to defend.
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Offline Kaled

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Re: Inquisitor Grand Tournament 2013
« Reply #14 on: April 26, 2012, 05:58:14 PM »
However, I think that 54mm models are sightly easier to work with (usually) due to the larger sizes of the pieces involved.
Having done loads of 54mm models in the past and recently a load of 28mm ones, I think it's fair to say that both have their challenges. If forced to choose I still find 54mm much harder as I can't get away with as much as I can on smaller models. For example, on a smaller model I can get some nice looking shading and highlighting with just a few layers, but on a larger model I need a lot more to get an effect that looks as smooth. Similarly with modelling, 54mm is more unforgiving due to everything being much bigger. But that's just my experience - I think we can all agree that there's no way to say that one scale is objectively easier than another.


Quote
Kaled, I think that most of the people on here are mature enough to try to make a combined event work and not turn it into a competition
I would hope so too - hence why my preference would be for an event that's as fully integrated as possible, event though I can see there could be some grounds for people wanting to keep them separate. I vote for an integrated event, and we can always tweak the formula in future if need be. Sure there may be some differences in how people score one another, but we have that anyway as everyone scores people slightly differently depending on their preferences already.
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