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Couple of questions 'n things I'd like to run by you...

Started by GhouraAgur, September 12, 2009, 11:54:19 PM

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MarcoSkoll

Quote from: Adlan on October 29, 2009, 03:11:03 PMI'm not sure where I recall this from, but aren't there small area's within the Imperium that are alien enclaves? Alien Societies that are too much trouble to destroy (right now) and aren't an active threat.
There are a number.

It's a bit complex really, as the Imperium is on occasion prepared to work with aliens (they have on occasion hired Kroot, other mercenaries and then there's the alien bounty hunter Exterminatus article) - but obviously this only holds in some cases.

I suppose in the Tau's case, they're a large empire which still chooses to make war - while they're not like the Orks who make war just for the hell of it, or the 'Nids who make war for lunch, they are still expansionist.
They don't need to get into fights with the Imperium, but they do still try and have territory off them, which is part of the problem - when the evil aliens are merely trading peacefully with you, then they can be tolerated. If they're trying to nick your planets, then they must be crushed.

So, while the non-aggressive alien enclaves in the Imperium are useful and would be effort to get rid of, and can thus (mostly) stay, the Tau, relatively, are aggressive - and at least when they are being belligerent, they have to be dealt with.
S.Sgt Silva Birgen: "Good evening, we're here from the Adeptus Defenestratus."
Captain L. Rollin: "Nonsense. Never heard of it."
Birgen: "Pick a window. I'll demonstrate".

GW's =I= articles

N01H3r3

Quote from: MarcoSkoll on October 29, 2009, 03:40:09 PMwhen the evil aliens are merely trading peacefully with you, then they can be tolerated. If they're trying to nick your planets, then they must be crushed.
I imagine it's a little more nuanced than that - even peaceful trade can result in spiritual or moral corruption, as the Imperium defines it. An alien culture trading with the Imperium could result in all manner of un-Imperial ideas migrating into the Imperium, and as a result, interactions with them must be carefully monitored.

In many cases, such agreements may only exist for as long as they escape the notice of the higher authorities (which, in the Imperium, could still be decades or centuries), and once somebody in power takes exception to the agreement, that Xenos culture will swiftly find itself the subject of a crusade of extermination.
Contributing Writer for many Warhammer 40,000 Roleplay books, including Black Crusade

Professional Games Designer.

DapperAnarchist

Indeed, if a race is willing to completely avoid contact, and doesn't interfere with Imperial requirements (lives only on human-uninhabitable worlds, Gas Giants, Venusians, etc) then there is absolutely no need to attack - and a reason not to. While the campaign may be sucessful, there is no material gain, and if it becomes wearing and difficult, then there is no reason to continue the war. However, the Tau aren't willing just to trade, their trade comes with problems. If one were the leader of an Alien Enclave, the best way to survive would be too keep your head down, be silent, and if a trader turns up, offer raw materials, and simple artifacts, little to no technology..
Questions are a burden to others, answers a burden to oneself.

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MarcoSkoll

This is true enough, but the point is still loosely there - while aggressive aliens have to be campaigned (or at least defended) against, more peaceful cultures can exist and even interact with the Imperium - but as you say, only really as long as the wrong people don't find out they're there.

The possibility of peaceful relations is a little more interesting - it gives the players the chance to put aliens on the table without them automatically being the bad guys.
S.Sgt Silva Birgen: "Good evening, we're here from the Adeptus Defenestratus."
Captain L. Rollin: "Nonsense. Never heard of it."
Birgen: "Pick a window. I'll demonstrate".

GW's =I= articles

N01H3r3

Quote from: MarcoSkoll on October 29, 2009, 05:14:13 PM
This is true enough, but the point is still loosely there - while aggressive aliens have to be campaigned (or at least defended) against, more peaceful cultures can exist and even interact with the Imperium - but as you say, only really as long as the wrong people don't find out they're there.
I think that, at the heart of it, a lot of things like this boil down to where the line is between local authority and the supposedly-monolithic might of the Imperium. The Imperium, IMO, won't tolerate Xenos creatures (though it will prioritise which are to be exterminated first - the truce at the end of the Damocles Crusade is a perfect example of this)... but a Sector, Subsector or planetary Commander might well turn a blind eye to such things if it provides some benefit.
Contributing Writer for many Warhammer 40,000 Roleplay books, including Black Crusade

Professional Games Designer.

Kaled

Quote from: Adlan on October 29, 2009, 03:11:03 PM
I'm not sure where I recall this from, but arn't there small area's within the Imperium that are alien enclaves? Alien Societies that are too much trouble to destroy (right now) and arn't an active threat, are isolated, any trading done through licensed and controlled dealers (Rogue Traders maybe?). Of course, these will probably be one system, not a small empire like the Tau has.
Well despite the fact that the 'borders' of the Imperium go right out to almost the edge of the galaxy, they only actually control a very small fraction of that area - roughly a million worlds in a galaxy of a few hundred billion stars.  The systems controlled by the Imperium are spread thinly throughout the galaxy, generally along stable warp routes.  Much of the galaxy is still unexplored, and I'm pretty sure that somewhere it mentions that aliens civilizations often rise and fall within the bounds of the Imperium and humanity never even notices.  So yes, there are plenty of alien enclaves, some the Imperium knows about and others it doesn't.
I like to remember things my own way... Not necessarily the way they happened.

Inquisitor - Blood Bowl - Malifaux - Fairy Meat

precinctomega

QuoteWhat do we know of the Dark Mechanicum?

Whatever we like.  The Dark Mechanicum is not one organization, but rather a catch-all for devotees of the Machine God who practice outside the auspices of Mars.  So worshippers of the Dragon, followers of Chaos, experimenters with Abominable Intelligence and others might all be categorized as "Dark" Mechanicus.

QuoteHow do Inquisitors like Tyrus get around?  It's gotta be hard to get the drop on a cult when everyone in the Hive is talking about the walking tank in gilded armor that showed up at the spaceport this morning.

However he pleases!  Tyrus, Baal Firenze and Torquemada Coteaz are all examples of "overt" operators.  They arrive en masse with hundreds of supporters and staff, bullying their way into the foreground and letting everyone know who they are and what they are there to do.  But that doesn't make them incapable of guile.  They will have hundreds of cover t operatives watching - in place, perhaps, for years - to see who bolts when the Inquisition turns up and, at that point, dozens of investigative kill teams might be released to join up with agents and informers and track down the suspicious and dangerous.

Such inquisitors will then invariably add their own strength to whichever mission transpires to be the most vital and dangerous.  The use of dedicated transports, local resources and cover stories can all serve to conceal the movement of these larger than life figures.  After all, no one would expect such apparent egomaniacs then to be moving around incognito in an unmarked Rhino.

QuoteWhat's the nature of the relationship between the Tau Empire and the Imperium of Man?  For some reason, I remember reading somewhere that it's something besides, "Kill it with fire!"

No, that is the relationship.  However, there have been a number of diplomatic missions on both sides.  The Imperium wants to exterminate the Tau Empire, but can't spare the resources to do so at the moment, what with Armageddon and the Black Crusade and suchlike.  So they just have to persuade the Tau to stop expanding quite so quickly and they promise that they will get around to exterminating them with full prejudice, just as soon as they can spare the resources.

QuoteWhat sort of corruption can stem from handling Xenos tech?  I mean, the consquences of messing with Deamons is pretty easy to comprehend; the notion of Daemons isn't so very far from that of demons, and therefore, the notion of spiritual corruption isn't that hard to impress.  I think, therefore I could quite easily convey to my players a sense of dread when it come to handling warp stuff.
But what sort of examples can I give to make them stop and consider their Character's souls before picking up the "uber-alien-awesome-rifle-of-super-shooty-death"?

It's a lot simpler than that:

"Your character picks up the strange pistol dropped by the alien and examines it.  There is no obvious firing mechanism and he cannot image how the creature operated it.  He discards it as useless."

QuoteWhat would you call a local security force detective?

A "local security force detective".

QuoteHow about a Rogue Trader who styles himself "Commodore" (not for the actual rank, but for the sound) and think's he's Macharius re-incarnated(which might attract more attention from the Inquisition that anyone should like.)?  (Sorta if Patton was a space-pirate?)

Sounds fine.

QuoteHow are Hives lit?

Sometimes they aren't.  Sometimes they might use elaborate light wells to redirect real daylight.  more often, electric lights, glowglobes, gaslight and any other local resources will be cobbled together to do the job.

QuoteSurely to be completely seperated from the sun isn't healthy?

Correct.  Malnutrition is pretty much the least of a hiver's problems.

QuoteAre Hivers assumed, then, to be sickly pale?  I doub't one could obtain a healthy complection under a fluorescent bulb.

If they don't get natural light and come from a pale racial background then, yes, they'll be very pale-skinned.

QuoteWhat do you think?  MIU linked automatic shotgun, or an autogun with flechette rounds?

Neither.  Avoid.  Avoid.  And see above with respect to using alien technology without good reason.  don't use loxatl NPCs and don't let the players use them as PCs.

R.

Heroka Vendile

Quote from: precinctomega on October 30, 2009, 05:25:56 PM
QuoteWhat do you think?  MIU linked automatic shotgun, or an autogun with flechette rounds?
Neither.  Avoid.  Avoid.  And see above with respect to using alien technology without good reason.  don't use loxatl NPCs and don't let the players use them as PCs.
R.
I'm curious as to why you seem so against the use of Loxatl in Inquisitor. After all one of their appearances in the Gaunts Ghosts series is a trio of them on an assassination mission, something often suited to Inquisitor games. Is it just because they are so intrinsicly linked to the Sabbat Worlds region(/books)? They are mercenaries after all, so what's to stop them appearing elsewhere in the galaxy (all be it most likely in the Sabbat Worlds vicinity).
It's all fun and games until someone shoots their own guy with a Graviton gun instead of the MASSIVE SPIDER.
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Rewards Of The Enemy

precinctomega

For the same reason as I'd say that people new to the game should avoid Space Marines, Necron Lords, Enslavers, Genestealers or Daemons.  Making up and keeping track of the rules for such creatures is hard enough for the aspiring GM.  Making a model that does them justice is even harder.  Using them in a half-hearted fashion (proxy models, improvised rules etc) opens the door to your players to do the same with their own choice of characters.

Of course, if a player should come back with an ingenious (preferably 54mm) conversion that accurately reflects the appearance of the Loxatl as illustrated in the "Inquisition" sourcebook then I would immediately encourage them to make imaginative use of them in a game.

R.

Carados

What is this 'Inquisition' sourcebook??  And where abouts is the illustration?  Don't think I've come across the Loxatl before...

Kaled

PO is referring to The Inquisition, an encyclopedia that BL published a while ago.
http://www.amazon.co.uk/Inquisition-Illustrated-Secretive-Protectors-Warhammer/dp/1844164918/ref=sr_1_7?ie=UTF8&s=books&qid=1257012050&sr=8-7

Don't bother buying it, I did and it's really not worth the money.  IIRC there's one in the library system thanks to PO.
I like to remember things my own way... Not necessarily the way they happened.

Inquisitor - Blood Bowl - Malifaux - Fairy Meat