Author Topic: Plausibility of an Inquisitorial Stormtrooper becoming an inquisitor?  (Read 5128 times)

Offline Eziah Kranox

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Basically as the title says. I have been thinking about my first actual inquisitor and his warband. Looking at the boards I couldn't see any precedent of it occurring on here. I know that it is possible, but is it plausible?

My thoughts were as follows:
- Bob(place holder name) becomes an inquisitorial stormtrooper.
- Bob is conscripted into Inquisitor Steve's warband for a semi permanent placement, while Steve is in the system.
- Bob does random bodyguard stuff, until he is tasked with helping lead a group of arbites in a raid (or something).
- Bob is quite the military strategist and through a feat of great tactical ingenuity makes the raid go successfully.
- Steve, who had been monitoring the raid, was impressed by said ingenuity and decides that Bob's strategic mind would be a great help in future operations and makes him a full member of the warband.
- Bob, like any other up and coming inquisitorial candidate, works his way up the chain of command to become Steve's interrogator... etc

But where my idea falls down is that I don't really see Inquisitorial Stormtroopers being trained in covert warfare like their Imperial Guard brethren, so the question is really two-fold. Is the turn of events outlined above plausible and are =I= Stormies trained in covert ops like their IG counterparts?

Thx in advance.
Eziah Kranox

Offline Dolnikan

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Re: Plausibility of an Inquisitorial Stormtrooper becoming an inquisitor?
« Reply #1 on: January 28, 2013, 02:40:34 PM »
Well, a storm trooper has one thing which is important for recruitment, exposure to the inquisition. Inquisitorial Storm Troopers actually would be trained for covert operations, most of the time the inquisition wants to keep things quiet and their storm troopers are trained for just that, to remove groups of people with as little trouble as possible.

The inquisitor could even have been accompanied by a unit of storm troopers, kept in reserve for when they are needed. The qinquisitor could have been working with him for a while and from one thing came another.
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Offline MarcoSkoll

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Re: Plausibility of an Inquisitorial Stormtrooper becoming an inquisitor?
« Reply #2 on: January 28, 2013, 03:00:58 PM »
That's certainly a plausible turn of events. A lot of Inquisition recruitment does work on the basis of Inquisitors temporarily "hiring" locals so they have someone who knows the lay of the land better, who then prove themselves enough to be worth keeping around permanently.

Or, at least, I use it a lot in my collection.

But where my idea falls down is that I don't really see Inquisitorial Stormtroopers being trained in covert warfare like their Imperial Guard brethren
To quote directly from Ascension: "Storm Troopers are frequently used as recon and covert assault troopers (one of the reasons they are favoured by the Inquisition)."

The Inquisition has just as much, if not more, need for covert warfare than the Imperial Guard.
S.Sgt Silva Birgen: "Good evening, we're here from the Adeptus Defenestratus."
Captain L. Rollin: "Nonsense. Never heard of it."
Birgen: "Pick a window. I'll demonstrate".

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Offline Koval

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Re: Plausibility of an Inquisitorial Stormtrooper becoming an inquisitor?
« Reply #3 on: January 28, 2013, 07:13:54 PM »
There is very little distinction between an Inquisition Storm Trooper and an Imperial Guard Storm Trooper -- Storm Troopers all form part of the Storm Trooper Regiment*, which basically means that "Inquisition Storm Troopers" are just Storm Troopers that ended up working for an Inquisitor.

Amberley Vail tells us in one of the Cain novels (possibly Caves of Ice) that the whole point of Storm Trooper training is to provide soldiers for the Inquisition to use, though IIRC she also states that most of them end up being attached to Guard units anyway.

Back on topic, the only place where this really falls down is the Storm Trooper working his way up to Interrogator -- being an Interrogator or Inquisitor requires a skill set that's more or less going the other way to what the Schola Progenium instills in Storm Trooper cadets. So this Storm Trooper would basically need a reason to break character. Military strategy and coordinating an operation are not a problem, but actually spearheading an investigation is another matter. While stranger things have happened, for the background to run as smoothly as possible, this Storm Trooper's intellect and mindset would probably have to be a deeply ingrained part of his character from before/during his Schola training. I also imagine that he'd make for a highly militant member of the Inquisition should he get that far, possibly even leaning towards Monodominant philosophy.

*Mentioned at least as far back as the 2nd Edition Codex: Imperial Guard, trimmed down and copy/pasted into the 5th Edition Codex -- notably, the references to the Regiment's laughably small size have been dummied out. We see more about Storm Trooper Companies (eg. the 1st Scintillan), but the Regiment is fundamentally still there.
« Last Edit: January 28, 2013, 09:42:22 PM by Koval »

Offline Alyster Wick

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Re: Plausibility of an Inquisitorial Stormtrooper becoming an inquisitor?
« Reply #4 on: January 29, 2013, 01:51:49 AM »
Back on topic, the only place where this really falls down is the Storm Trooper working his way up to Interrogator -- being an Interrogator or Inquisitor requires a skill set that's more or less going the other way to what the Schola Progenium instills in Storm Trooper cadets. So this Storm Trooper would basically need a reason to break character. Military strategy and coordinating an operation are not a problem, but actually spearheading an investigation is another matter. While stranger things have happened, for the background to run as smoothly as possible, this Storm Trooper's intellect and mindset would probably have to be a deeply ingrained part of his character from before/during his Schola training. I also imagine that he'd make for a highly militant member of the Inquisition should he get that far, possibly even leaning towards Monodominant philosophy.

It's a plausible turn of events, without a doubt. I agree with Koval's assessment to a certain degree in that it would be more interesting to plant the seeds of motivation that lead to Bob's drive to become an inquisitor in his past. However I don't think that the leap up to Interrogator is necessarily a character break. While specialized forces will be tasked more with implementation as opposed to direct planning they are still sent on important missions which require the ability to act quickly in the field under variable conditions. These are fantastic skills/traits to have.

Furthermore it is plausible that commanders overseeing the regiment will be looking for talent within the unit to be promoted. Heck, he could already be a squad leader at that point and have some level of input on the planning stages of operations.

Beyond those components there are plenty of cases in real life where folks in the military leave the service and end up working in other areas of law enforcement (detectives, CIA, FBI etc) which utilize their military training but also expand their skill sets to include talents we associate more with the role of an Interrogator. Attention to detail, discipline and quick (mental and physical) reflexes are needed for both tasks.

A little long winded but that's my way of saying I think your idea Eziah is both appropriate and underutilized. Honestly I can't remember another storm trooper turned Inquisitor that I've seen, good work!

Offline Koval

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Re: Plausibility of an Inquisitorial Stormtrooper becoming an inquisitor?
« Reply #5 on: January 29, 2013, 06:37:09 AM »
Furthermore it is plausible that commanders overseeing the regiment will be looking for talent within the unit to be promoted. Heck, he could already be a squad leader at that point and have some level of input on the planning stages of operations.
Well, to be fair, the Storm Trooper organisational structure does include officers of up to at least the rank of Colonel (we see one in Imperial Glory, though to tell you much more than that would be a bit of a spoiler) -- although one might argue that by the time he gets that far, he's too valuable in his current role to take out. If we want to go down that route then a lower-ranking officer might be more appropriate.

Quote
Beyond those components there are plenty of cases in real life where folks in the military leave the service and end up working in other areas of law enforcement (detectives, CIA, FBI etc) which utilize their military training but also expand their skill sets to include talents we associate more with the role of an Interrogator. Attention to detail, discipline and quick (mental and physical) reflexes are needed for both tasks.
With Storm Troopers, though, the training they undergo is probably closer to indoctrination undergone from a young age. I also don't imagine that one simply transfers from the Storm Trooper Regiment into, say, the Arbites in the way you describe -- not without an Inquisitor pulling the strings, at least.

Offline Dolnikan

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Re: Plausibility of an Inquisitorial Stormtrooper becoming an inquisitor?
« Reply #6 on: January 29, 2013, 08:54:50 AM »
Most storm troopers will remain storm troopers for the rest of their lifes, just like most other people in the Imperium. Of course storm troopers are filled with their indoctrination, but so are almost all people in the Imperium, and a storm trooper who, despite all this indoctrination, can still think outside the box would clearly show that most important talent for the inquisition.
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Offline Alyster Wick

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Re: Plausibility of an Inquisitorial Stormtrooper becoming an inquisitor?
« Reply #7 on: January 30, 2013, 12:58:46 AM »
Quote
Beyond those components there are plenty of cases in real life where folks in the military leave the service and end up working in other areas of law enforcement (detectives, CIA, FBI etc) which utilize their military training but also expand their skill sets to include talents we associate more with the role of an Interrogator. Attention to detail, discipline and quick (mental and physical) reflexes are needed for both tasks.
With Storm Troopers, though, the training they undergo is probably closer to indoctrination undergone from a young age. I also don't imagine that one simply transfers from the Storm Trooper Regiment into, say, the Arbites in the way you describe -- not without an Inquisitor pulling the strings, at least.

You're totally right. What I meant was that I think the skills are transferable and valuable, not necessarily that this would happen as a regular occurrence or that it would be choice your average storm trooper would be empowered to make.

Most storm troopers will remain storm troopers for the rest of their lifes, just like most other people in the Imperium. Of course storm troopers are filled with their indoctrination, but so are almost all people in the Imperium, and a storm trooper who, despite all this indoctrination, can still think outside the box would clearly show that most important talent for the inquisition.

I don't see storm troopers as being so heavily indoctrinated that they become soldier automatons. If Space Marines retain enough of their personality to be interesting protagonists (which the Black Library has shown, though I suppose there's room for debate about how much artistic license is taken against canon so that GW's most popular archetype can be written about in a relateable light) then storm troopers who undergo comparatively mild indoctrination should still make interesting and varied characters despite their livelihood.

Offline Dolnikan

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Re: Plausibility of an Inquisitorial Stormtrooper becoming an inquisitor?
« Reply #8 on: January 30, 2013, 09:21:13 AM »
Most storm troopers will remain storm troopers for the rest of their lifes, just like most other people in the Imperium. Of course storm troopers are filled with their indoctrination, but so are almost all people in the Imperium, and a storm trooper who, despite all this indoctrination, can still think outside the box would clearly show that most important talent for the inquisition.

I don't see storm troopers as being so heavily indoctrinated that they become soldier automatons. If Space Marines retain enough of their personality to be interesting protagonists (which the Black Library has shown, though I suppose there's room for debate about how much artistic license is taken against canon so that GW's most popular archetype can be written about in a relateable light) then storm troopers who undergo comparatively mild indoctrination should still make interesting and varied characters despite their livelihood.

I actually think that most people in the Imperium are very heavily indoctrinated, they live in a theocracy that represses all kinds of free thought. Those who come from the Schola are even more heavily indoctrinated, they are raised by a church that isn't known for it tolerance of free thinking. Of course, Imperials are still people, it's just that most of them are religious zealots by our standards, they live for their Emperor. There of course also are those who are depicted as even more religious than the rest, and are seen as zealots in the setting, but we should bear in mind that Imperial society knows little free thought and is very, very repressive.
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Offline Eziah Kranox

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Re: Plausibility of an Inquisitorial Stormtrooper becoming an inquisitor?
« Reply #9 on: January 30, 2013, 11:01:26 AM »
Well I figure I might aswell stick my thoughts here before I fully start everything (I'm one of the people that writes out the character then works out the modelling side....) so, some notes:

With the investigation thing (which I will admit is the biggest hurdle), I was thinking that Bob would have been extensively used in counter insurgency operations, probably after the inquisitor realizes that there is a threat. In that case I was thinking that the Inquisitor would effectively fade into the background (a non combat orientated kind of guy), acting like a 40k equivalent of military intelligence. So although Bob is the grunt on the ground and the inquisitor is in control, most of the on ground decisions would be his. He would decide who to interrogate (and how etc), he would have to analyse the situation. If we are talking about a smart(ish) cult, he probably would have to find bombs and the like... And while I understand that the situation that I describe isn't all the things that an inquisitor investigates/ how they would investigate, it is a foot in the door.

When he shows some aptitude in the analysis of cults from a military standpoint and the ability to analyse things beyond that of a mindless grunt, the inquisitor then decides to take him under his wing so to speak.....

Belief wise I was thinking something slightly more radical than even a moderate Monodominant (not sure of the spelling), I was thinking a Thorian philosophy, specifically the Casophilians. My thoughts were that one of the drill abbots told him the story and how all pious believers in Him could aspire to be like the saint. Of course as he got older and combat made him more cynical, he came to believe that only special individuals could aspire to this greatness and so he lost hope in resurrection for himself, but still saw that others, more special than himself, could attain such greatness. So it would sort of be like a cross between a Casophilian and an Anomalian Beholder... It also helped that the Inquisitor that requisitioned him was a Thorian.....

I'd think that a lot of his fellow inquisitors would still consider him a grunt, or atleast the ones that knew that he was a storm trooper. He'd probably be less armed than he was as a storm trooper, but still very well prepared, with other inquisitors wondering how he managed to pull an arsenal out of his backside. I think he would probably masquerade as a mercenary when he was dealing with the lower levels of society and as a bodyguard for his interrogator for when he was dealing with the higher levels, only revealing his true identity behind closed doors and to those that he knew could be trusted.

For backup I was thinking he'd have an Interrogator that was "classic inquisition", a few select storm troopers (most likely 3, for a 4 man fireteam) and a large number of archivists and researchers to make up for the fact that he is not quite as learned as his more intellectual counterparts....

Well those are the notes, any thoughts would be appreciated.

Offline Alyster Wick

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Re: Plausibility of an Inquisitorial Stormtrooper becoming an inquisitor?
« Reply #10 on: January 30, 2013, 11:30:06 PM »
Re: the background...

I like it, simple but gets the point across. As much as I love a well plotted and sprawling backstory I find that short bits that contain the vitals can be great and give you leeway to really define your character on the board.

As far as a couple concepts to toss your way, perhaps the Storm Trooper was the squad commander and successfully completed a mission after the Acolyte that the Inquisitor had paired his squad up with died in the field. A "finish the mission at all costs" attitude could drive him to discover resourcefulness and ingenuity he never knew he had.

This gets him notices, the Inquisitor requests his squads services often in the ongoing campaign and gradually he becomes a trusted pointman. Fast forward and it's easy to see how he could become a more action-oriented acolyte.

The idea that the Inquisitor hides his identity in the field while "deferring" to his acolyte is fantastic. Adds a cool dynamic to any game. I also like the implication that he may be using a basic weapon as opposed to a pistol and CCW (which I feel like is often, but not always, the case).

It would be really cool to see a couple different models for your Inquisitor (Regal mode and Grunt mode). I love the idea of him being viewed more as a blunt object than a nuanced peer by other Inquisitors. Gives him a nice chip on his shoulder but the training to shove his detractors' arrogance down their throats. Great stuff!

Most storm troopers will remain storm troopers for the rest of their lifes, just like most other people in the Imperium. Of course storm troopers are filled with their indoctrination, but so are almost all people in the Imperium, and a storm trooper who, despite all this indoctrination, can still think outside the box would clearly show that most important talent for the inquisition.

I don't see storm troopers as being so heavily indoctrinated that they become soldier automatons. If Space Marines retain enough of their personality to be interesting protagonists (which the Black Library has shown, though I suppose there's room for debate about how much artistic license is taken against canon so that GW's most popular archetype can be written about in a relateable light) then storm troopers who undergo comparatively mild indoctrination should still make interesting and varied characters despite their livelihood.

I actually think that most people in the Imperium are very heavily indoctrinated, they live in a theocracy that represses all kinds of free thought. Those who come from the Schola are even more heavily indoctrinated, they are raised by a church that isn't known for it tolerance of free thinking. Of course, Imperials are still people, it's just that most of them are religious zealots by our standards, they live for their Emperor. There of course also are those who are depicted as even more religious than the rest, and are seen as zealots in the setting, but we should bear in mind that Imperial society knows little free thought and is very, very repressive.

I totally respect that view and think it's 100% legitimate. I tend to prefer the view that while there is a veneer of piousness across the Imperium that many average Imperial citizens (while they are staunch believers) will still be more concerned with where their next meal is coming from as opposed to saying their prayers to the Emperor on all the odd hours of the day.

My main point being that I tend to view the Imperium through the lense of "repressive Theocracy can only go so far." Much like modern day repressive regimes they may project an image of absolute conformity but this is far from the truth. It is totally fair to counter that in the 41st century daemons, aliens and Chaos are real physical threats that engender greater degrees of loyalty and piety as a matter of survival, I just find it a more interesting place to imagine that the indoctrination, while significant, is not as all-consuming.

Again, both views are totally valid and I'm not trying to argue that mine is the one that should be adopted, just trying to explain where I'm coming from. Additionally, no two planets are exactly the same so there are certainly cases where I'd adopt your views in terms of the strength of Imperial indoctrination.

I hope that makes sense, interesting discussion regardless!

Offline Gilleon

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Re: Plausibility of an Inquisitorial Stormtrooper becoming an inquisitor?
« Reply #11 on: February 04, 2013, 09:00:05 AM »
I have to agree with you Alyster with regards to how indoctrinated the general citizenship of the Imperium is, but as you say both views are valid in their way. I tend to look at it on a planet by planet basis: some planets will fit the hyper-indoctrination mould, some wont.

More importantly on topic, Eziah I reckon your idea works and has plenty of merit. Go ahead and use it i reckon.