Author Topic: The Count and his cold-bodied accomplices  (Read 10172 times)

Offline greenstuff_gav

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Re: The Count and his cold-bodied accomplices
« Reply #15 on: April 09, 2013, 10:46:07 AM »
wasn't there a film / series where a stake through the heart simply rendered a vampire immobile?
maybe in addition to the damage, a hit to the chest with any weapon likely to stay there (stake, knife, crossbow bolt) simply 1/2 his speed?
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Offline mirryhalo

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Re: The Count and his cold-bodied accomplices
« Reply #16 on: April 09, 2013, 11:49:26 AM »
What Kaled said is pretty much what I've been trying to say so thanks for explaining it more clearly.

With the weapon staying there halving his speed I think is a good idea but I think he should be able to spend an action taking it out maybe a strength test with some modifiers?

Offline mirryhalo

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Re: The Count and his cold-bodied accomplices
« Reply #17 on: April 09, 2013, 01:08:14 PM »
On the topic of crossbows I put together some rough ideas for Inquisitor Hale in which I made up some rules for a pretty nasty crossbow, probably called something that has redemption or purging in it. I thought that the rules for the crossbow in the rule book would be for the kind of wooden medieval crossbow rather than a hightech one so I thought I'd redo them a little. This one's also a little special as firstly it's hand made for Hale so I gave it an accuracy modifier just to show it fits with him perfectly etc. and I also made it more than one shot not an automatic monster like Van Helsing's  but one that would have a few bolts in the chamber so he wouldn't have to keep putting a new one in and an easier drawback method, I was kinda thinking it'd look a little like this:


Maybe with a fancy reflex sight or something

Here are the rules:
Type     Range     Firing Mode     Accuracy     Damage     Shots     Reload     Weight
Basic        F            single              +5           D10+2         5            1            25

I was also thinking about anti-vampire weapons and I thought maybe some bullets that have a capsule of holy water in them that bursts in impact so I was thinking like normal damage but if it goes through the armour then it causes another D6 damage, only thing is I don't want to make his opposition so kitted out with vampire hunting equipment that The Count won't stand a chance...

Also what do you thing would be more vampire hunter a bastard sword or a great hammer?
« Last Edit: April 09, 2013, 03:06:42 PM by mirryhalo »

Offline Koval

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Re: The Count and his cold-bodied accomplices
« Reply #18 on: April 09, 2013, 06:23:13 PM »
While all this is true, the common mythology of vampires is that a wooden stake to the heart is the way to dispatch them, and I see no reason to throw away that mythology when creating a character that is based on the concept of what if a vampire based on that mythology survived through to the 41st millenium.
While I'm not disputing what "common mythology" is, I do find the Flanderisation of the actual mythology rather worrying -- IMO, the original stuff is more interesting, because we get to see where the ideas came from in the first place

However, if we're looking to retain the "common mythology" feel, without going into all the strangeness that results from deconstructing Pop Culture Vampires, consider power-stakes, Condemnor boltguns, and the fancy crossbows used by the Ordo Hereticus in order to update the idea to match the current setting. All we'd have to do then is adopt some of the properties of Anti-Daemonic ammunition (or Wych-bolts/psybolts) from Marco's RIA.

That way, the Count can still be a vampire, and laugh at mere mortal weapons, without having to be suddenly undone the instant someone pokes him with a sharp bit of wood or eats a piece of garlic bread. :P

Offline Kaled

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Re: The Count and his cold-bodied accomplices
« Reply #19 on: April 09, 2013, 06:52:56 PM »
IMO, the original stuff is more interesting, because we get to see where the ideas came from in the first place
I don't know that I'd go so far as to say 'more interesting', both have their place, but taking from different aspects of the mythology (looking at its origins and how it's evolved to the modern day) can definitely be a good way to create a character. After all, if you went too far to the extreme of taking inspiration from where the myths come from you'd end up with a character who's not a vampire, so everyone is going to be looking at some stage of the mythology's evolution and it just depends on the individual as to which aspects interest them the most.

As for the crossbow - I don't think you need both the accuracy bonus and range band F. F is a very accurate range so I'd stick with one or the other. Also, if the reload represents a character removing a magazine of 5 shots and inserting another then reload 2 would be more appropriate. Or you could have it so that each reload action is to load one bolt and it can hold a maximum of 5.
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Offline Koval

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Re: The Count and his cold-bodied accomplices
« Reply #20 on: April 09, 2013, 09:31:53 PM »
Because I totally forgot to respond to this earlier:

Quote
In reality the weapon may be a type of daemon weapon or force weapon or something, but the character doesn't have to know that - and we don't really need to know it in order to play or to play against the character.
This is a fair point, but at the same time someone (in this case me, but it's not specific to this particular situation) will inevitably ask "okay, so what is it really?" -- in which case, we and our characters can think it's a "magic" weapon, but having a good answer to that question will mean that Mirry's really thought the character through. Extra layers of detail behind the scenes are (at least IMO) important and cool.
« Last Edit: April 09, 2013, 09:49:36 PM by Koval »

Offline Kaled

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Re: The Count and his cold-bodied accomplices
« Reply #21 on: April 09, 2013, 10:36:30 PM »
In that case you'll probably be very disappointed with several of my characters. I like leaving some things a mystery, and while I might have some ideas about the true answer, sometimes I just like to leave it undefined as a potential plot hook that I might revisit later. For me, knowing the solution to the mystery makes it less interesting - in fact it's no longer a mystery, just a secret that I'm not telling.

So, if you were to ask me "okay, so what is it really?" about these types of things with my characters, don't be surprised if I say I don't know or aren't telling and leave you to speculate instead. I realise that approach doesn't work for everyone, but for me it's right.
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Offline mirryhalo

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Re: The Count and his cold-bodied accomplices
« Reply #22 on: April 09, 2013, 10:50:28 PM »
Okay so in response to Koval I suppose you could say it is a 'magic weapon' that upon it's creation was imbued with the essence of a magical entity in a similar way to how daemon weapons are created nowadays (41st millenium) but in a more skilful way which prevents the constant battle of wills between the trapped essence and the user, Sound any better? Although as Kaled says I quite like the idea of it being an ancient mysterious weapon that has been passed down throughout his blood line with origins relatively unknown, perhaps a mini campaign could be the vampire finding out the origin off the blade?

and redone stats for the crossbow:
Type     Range     Firing Mode     Accuracy     Damage     Shots     Reload     Weight
Basic        F            single                -            D10+2         5            2            25

However, if we're looking to retain the "common mythology" feel, without going into all the strangeness that results from deconstructing Pop Culture Vampires, consider power-stakes, Condemnor boltguns, and the fancy crossbows used by the Ordo Hereticus in order to update the idea to match the current setting. All we'd have to do then is adopt some of the properties of Anti-Daemonic ammunition (or Wych-bolts/psybolts) from Marco's RIA.

That way, the Count can still be a vampire, and laugh at mere mortal weapons, without having to be suddenly undone the instant someone pokes him with a sharp bit of wood or eats a piece of garlic bread. :P

In respect to this that is what I was thinking of the modified invulnerable rules so that specific weapons for hunting vampires, crossbows, stakes etc. when striking the chest would do the normal/double damage. I was also thinking of UV ammunition (like in the underworld series) or rounds that contain capsules of holy water that explode on impact that you can use in solid round weapons which have a similar effect to the hellfire shotgun ammunition when used on vampires 

Offline mirryhalo

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Re: The Count and his cold-bodied accomplices
« Reply #23 on: April 10, 2013, 12:24:49 AM »
I've revised the rules for both The Count and his zombies

The Count

WS  BS    S    T    I    Wp  Sg  Nv  Ld   Spd
 80  72   76  68  84  78  77  87  89     5

Equipment: Hunting RIfle + range finder - 1 reload, Web Pistol - 2 reloads, Blooddrinker (magic sword, heirloom of vampire counts' days,     after armour add d6 to injury and - Half of the result, rounding up to the count's injury value) carapace on groin and right arm, 3 everywhere else, 0 on head

Special Abilities: Suck Blood (same as vampirism but gives regenerate afterwards), Force of Will, Lightening Reflexes, 'The Light!' (flash grenades, photon flares etc. count as frag grenades UV weapons do extra damage), Vampire Fortitude (all damage, after armour, is halved unless it is in the chest with an anti-vampire weapon, ones that get stuck crossbow bolt etc. half speed and require a strength test at -10 for each injury level of the chest to remove to regin normal speed)

Psychic Abilities:
Gaze of Death
Raise Dead; Difficulty 10 The count Raises d2 zombies up to 10 yards away

Zombies

WS  BS    S    T    I    Wp  Sg   Nv   Ld    Spd
40    0    62  43  23   0     0   N/A   0      2

Equipment: Clawing hands (reach:1 Dmg:d6+2)

Special Abilities: Fearsome, Zombie Shuffle (can never:evade,sprint,dodge,parry), Brain Dead (1/2 damage to all locations except head which takes double), force of will, nerves of steel, immune to toxins and psychic powers that require them to take Wp tests

I also made some rules and a bit of back story for his thrall Pelski that accompanies him.

Pelski was a well known and successful 'acquirer' of items he could get you most things you asked for ,within his current star system, fortune seemed to shine on him and he was running a lucrative business on the goods he managed to steal. Until one fateful day an Inquisitor approached him saying his name was Hale and he came with a very strange request, instead of wanting to get something 'acquired' for him he asked Pelski to break into the mansion of Lord Dragos Danesti and take a film of what he found exploring all rooms of the house, then bring it back to Hale. Usually this wasn't Pelski's area of works he was more of a sneak in and out no more than was needed kind of man but the money was too good to pass up on so he went to investigate. It wasn't too hard to sneak into the establishment but once inside he was soon confronted by Dragos who questioned him and after realising what it would mean were the man to return to the Inquisitor he turned him into his thrall binding him to his service until either one of them should die.

WS  BS    S    T    I    Wp  Sg   Nv   Ld  Spd
58   56   52  55  60   67  64   70  56    4

Equipment: Autogun - one reload, Knife, Flak on all locations except head, mesh on groin

Special Abilities: Knife Fighter, Catfall, Thrall (If the count goes out of action roll D100 80+ Pelski is stunned roll each turn until not if stunned for 3 turns in a row then he must pass willpower test of go out of action), The Light!

I hope that these are more useable and that The Count isn't too OP anymore
« Last Edit: April 10, 2013, 01:14:45 PM by mirryhalo »

Offline Koval

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Re: The Count and his cold-bodied accomplices
« Reply #24 on: April 10, 2013, 06:56:26 AM »
In that case you'll probably be very disappointed with several of my characters.
[...]
I realise that approach doesn't work for everyone, but for me it's right.
Without wishing to come across as hostile or inflammatory, that's unfortunately rather likely, but that's largely because I dislike not knowing things (in general; this doesn't relate solely to Inquisitor or to this forum). Sure, a lot of things about a lot of characters may be a grand irrelevance most of the time, but I just think it's cool that those things are there.

Anyway, onto the Count; I must say he looks a lot more sensible, but there are a couple of things that stand out a bit.
--The hunting rifle: As it's already range G, does it need a rangefinder? If so, are you using the rulebook version or the RIA version?
--The sword: Call me a really pernickety so-and-so but the wording looks a bit off, because it actually reads as though you're adding minus one-half of an Injury point to the Count's Injury Total. "Half of the result, rounding up/down" (delete as appropriate) would work better. :P
--"The Light!": Define the "extra damage" from a UV weapon?
--Vampire Fortitude: Is a really powerful double-edged sword. I'd be tempted to replace this one with the following:

Vampire Fortitude:
The character is a being of blood and darkness, and can shrug off the most terrible attacks from mortal weapons. Like all creatures of his ilk, however, he has his weaknesses and vulnerabilities...
The Count gains +1 BIV against all attacks. However, blessed and/or holy weapons, and weapons created specifically to deal with vampires, negate this property. Furthermore, such weapons roll one extra die for damage, discarding the die with the lowest result. In addition, the Count suffers -1 Speed should such a weapon inflict more than one level of Injury to the Count's chest.


It's ultimately your call, but what I cooked up has less to keep track of, while keeping anti-vampire stuff suitably lethal.
« Last Edit: April 10, 2013, 06:18:51 PM by Koval »

Offline mirryhalo

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Re: The Count and his cold-bodied accomplices
« Reply #25 on: April 10, 2013, 01:12:12 PM »
Anyway, onto the Count; I must say he looks a lot more sensible, but there are a couple of things that stand out a bit.
--The hunting rifle: As it's already range G, does it need a rangefinder? If so, are you using the rulebook version or the RIA version?
--The sword: Call me a really pernickety so-and-so but the wording looks a bit off, because it actually reads as though you're adding minus one-half of an Injury point to the Count's Injury Total. "Half of the result, rounding up/down" (delete as appropriate) would work better. :P
--"The Light!": Define the "extra damage" from a UV weapon?
--Vampire Fortitude: Is a really powerful double-edged sword. I'd be tempted to replace this one with the following:

Vampire Fortitude:
The character is a being of blood and darkness, and can shrug off the most terrible attacks from mortal weapons. Like all creatures of his ilk, however, he has his weaknesses and vulnerabilities...
The Count gains +1 BIV against all attacks. However, blessed and/or holy weapons, and weapons created specifically to deal with vampires, negate this property. Furthermore, such weapons roll one extra die for damage, discarding the die with the lowest result. In addition, the Count suffers -1 Speed should such a weapon inflict more than one level of Injury to the Count's chest.


It's ultimately your call, but what I cooked up has less to keep track of, while keeping anti-vampire stuff suitably lethal.

Yeah know what you mean about the hunting rifle but I though in his character he would have a sight of some sort and as I only have the inquisitor rulebook for all my armoury I thought that a rangefinder would be the best kind of sight, if there was some sort of telescopic sight I think that that would be more like the sort of thing he would use, or maybe a reflex sight or something like that but unfortunately I couldn't find anything like that in the rule book.

I'll change the wording of the sword so it sounds better

The Light!: at the moment I'm not too sure about whether I'm going to create UV weapons and if I do what sort of thing they'll be so that' why I'm not too specific in the damage rating on that

Vampire Fortitude: I kinda know what you're saying about the rules I've got at the moment for this but I think that only one BIV doesn't quite show the kind of resilience a vampire has maybe +2 or 3 would be more suitable? I do however agree with your damage thinking in that you roll and extra die and discard the lowest one because that  stops on solid crossbow bolt to the chest almost killing him outright which is kind of a little too the other way.
 

Offline MarcoSkoll

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Re: The Count and his cold-bodied accomplices
« Reply #26 on: April 10, 2013, 05:12:17 PM »
but I think that only one BIV doesn't quite show the kind of resilience a vampire has maybe +2 or 3 would be more suitable?
That'd make him Base Injury 9 or 10, which doesn't work very well in rules terms.

Given the way damage works, it's so high it's almost pointlessly so. It dramatically reduces the likelihood of a single hit doing 2 or 3 injury levels, but that only really affects heavy weapon hits. Seeing as you take injury levels for even a single point of damage over armour, it doesn't really affect resilience versus light weapons.

I do have a BIV 8 character (a huge feudal worlder who stands a head taller than most of my other characters) but to make models tougher than that, I prefer to give characters extra injury levels or partial resistance to certain damage results.

My toughest character is actually only toughness 65 (so BIV 7), but has some resistance to stunning, system shock, unconsciousness, speed penalties and can regenerate. (However, given she also has zero armour, a lot of this just spends its time countering the fact she takes more injuries than other characters).

That said, you should ultimately bear in mind that ultimately you're not just trying to make a really tough vampire. You're trying to make an Inquisitor character and this does mean compromise. There are superlatively tough vampires in fiction, but such invincible characters aren't suitable for the gaming table.
Have him somewhat tougher than a normal human by all means (which BIV 8 would be), but don't just use "he's a vampire" as an excuse for anything or everything.
« Last Edit: April 10, 2013, 05:18:42 PM by MarcoSkoll »
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Offline mirryhalo

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Re: The Count and his cold-bodied accomplices
« Reply #27 on: April 10, 2013, 06:16:44 PM »
So could we possibly have him normal BIV but having an additional injury level to begin with on each location that has no negative modifiers unless he his hit with specific anti-vampire weapons there that also do the roll another die discard the lowest one?

Offline Kaled

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Re: The Count and his cold-bodied accomplices
« Reply #28 on: April 10, 2013, 06:30:35 PM »
I'm not sure he needs an extra BIV if damage after armour is halved. If I were you I'd play him for a few games as he is and see. There's nothing saying you can't adjust your character once you start using him.
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Offline Koval

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Re: The Count and his cold-bodied accomplices
« Reply #29 on: April 10, 2013, 07:05:51 PM »
The Carthax Wiki gives us "Just A Flesh Wound" which is effectively what you're after. Paired up with my own stab at Vampire Fortitude, it'll make him tough, but by no means impossible for a hunter to bring down.

And while I'm linking things, here's the thread that gave us the Revised Inquisitor Armoury (which has things like reflex sights, telescopic sights and all sorts of weird and wonderful alternative weapon rules)

In the context of the RIA, the "roll an extra die and discard the lowest" thing is basically longhand for the Tearing property.

I'm not sure he needs an extra BIV if damage after armour is halved. If I were you I'd play him for a few games as he is and see. There's nothing saying you can't adjust your character once you start using him.
To be fair, my version of Vampire Fortitude was meant to be a straight replacement for the original Half Damage After Armour version, as I think that Half Damage After Armour would be a disturbingly powerful property for him to have.