Author Topic: The Count and his cold-bodied accomplices  (Read 10188 times)

Offline mirryhalo

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Re: The Count and his cold-bodied accomplices
« Reply #30 on: April 10, 2013, 08:24:12 PM »
Thanks for that link to the revised armoury

Ok so new Vampire Fortitude rules: the same as carthaxwiki's just a fleshwound (there is an extra injury level on all locations that doesn't have any penalties) when vampire killing weapons hit the chest area this extra injury level is ignored and roll an extra damage die discarding the lowest. In cases where something can get stuck in the chest he must make a strength test to remove it at -10% for each injury level in the chest or suffer -1 speed.

What do we think?

Offline Koval

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Re: The Count and his cold-bodied accomplices
« Reply #31 on: April 10, 2013, 08:38:29 PM »
Uh, the "extra level of injury being ignored" makes little sense, as his Injury levels go Flesh Wound > Light > Heavy etc -- Just A Flesh Wound isn't the same thing as "+1 BIV".

As such, you can give him Just A Flesh Wound, but in order for the vampire-killing bit to make sense, it should really be "-1 BIV when vampire-killing weapons hit the chest", as he may well have lost his Flesh Wound box already to other things.

Offline mirryhalo

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Re: The Count and his cold-bodied accomplices
« Reply #32 on: April 10, 2013, 10:06:46 PM »
Yeah that makes a lot more sense with the -1 BIV I didn't really think that through thanks

Offline Alyster Wick

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Re: The Count and his cold-bodied accomplices
« Reply #33 on: April 11, 2013, 03:34:42 AM »
With the whole raise zombies thing it seems like you could just limit this ability by mandating that their be viable corpses nearby in order for them to be summoned (which will not always necessarily be the case). With a game as detailed as Inquisitor is seems a bit far-fetched to say that there will always just be bodies somewhere that can claw through the ground/wooden floor/void of space in order to aid your character.

On that note, while I'm digging some of the rules you've put together I do feel like you're missing some opportunities with the background. A number of times throughout the thread you refer to standard vampire lore (as we understand it) to explain his toughness, etc. Then again you use Warhammer Fantasy as a direct reference for the "magic sword." This just seems like way too much of a direct port (on multiple levels) without really wanting to put in any effort to have your character concept mesh with the fictional universe you're role playing in. IMO, if you answer background questions with an explanation that takes fluff from outside the 40K universe as a given then there's an issue.

I'm actually very much with Kaled on the "magic sword" in terms of leaving its origins and abilities mysterious. I do that kind of thing all the time and I love the ambiguity/possibility of future tie ins. That said, ambiguity like this shouldn't be an excuse to make a daemon weapon with no downsides (which is basically what you've done here). I would be more accepting of a weapon this exceptional if the character wasn't such a beast in other ways, but he's a classical Vampire and the stats reflect that.

40K background offers plenty of ways to create "vampiric" characters. They could be psychers/sorcerers that drain life force and need a physical totem to do so (blood), a particularly nasty mutant cannibal with a freakishly long life span, a member of the haemevore cult, a Dark Eldar, a follower of Khorne or Nurgle (hell, Slaanesh or Tzeentch could easily have followers that are suitably vampiric, the blood god and rot god are only slightly more natural choices). These are options I came up with while I typed with little to no thought put into it. You could even create an entirely new alien species that introduced a virus to the human race. Maybe a Thorian Inquisitor accidentally created vampires while trying to make a potion from some liquid byproduct of the Golden Throne. Beyond the obvious there are hundreds if not thousands of ways that you could creatively integrate vampires into the 40K universe rather than just saying, "well, he's a vampire," as justification for his existence.

To close, I really feel throwing a "vampire" in without either fully developing what "vampires" are within the 40K framework (such as putting effort into explaining how such creatures came to be, how they are/aren't in tune with the warp, if their powers derive from chaos, xenos origins, etc) is exactly the same thing as me creating a character that is a Jedi and explaining him by saying, "well, he's a Jedi. He uses the force." There's nothing wrong with taking inspiration from vampires (or Jedi, for that matter) but when there's no effort put in to explain the character and their background within the context of the 40K universe it starts chipping away at what's unique about the gaming world you're playing in.

Sorry, don't want to sound overly harsh but I feel strongly. If this style of critique is not helpful I will stick to the rules in any future comments.

Offline Koval

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Re: The Count and his cold-bodied accomplices
« Reply #34 on: April 11, 2013, 06:37:29 AM »
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This is more or less how I feel on the matter (with the exception of the magic sword, which I do think is suitably out of left field that we need something more to latch onto than "it's magic"), but at the same time we don't actually have an awful lot of background to go on -- on the other hand, we do have rules in front of us that we can critique and discuss.

Offline Kaled

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Re: The Count and his cold-bodied accomplices
« Reply #35 on: April 11, 2013, 06:48:22 AM »
You could make a couple of corpses with rules for how/where they are placed at the start of the game (perhaps by the GM) and it is these that can be turned into zombies as well as the bodies of any dead PCs or NPCs. Then the opposition, once they realise they're up against someone who can raise the dead might want to start destroying bodies so they can't be reanimated.
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Offline DapperAnarchist

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Re: The Count and his cold-bodied accomplices
« Reply #36 on: April 11, 2013, 10:17:29 AM »
It should also be noted that there is a specific "Vampire" species in 40k, a Warp creature (not a daemon) that can take on either human or vaguely batlike form and that tend to slip onto ships and feed on the crew.
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Offline mirryhalo

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Re: The Count and his cold-bodied accomplices
« Reply #37 on: April 11, 2013, 01:13:39 PM »
I always thought that the Warhammer Fantasy universe and the Warhammer 40K universe were the same just with the time difference. So my reasoning would be that a vampire survived from that line of vampires originally from Terran, although I can understand how that is a little tenuous. He could have been a Vampire in the ranks of the Vampire counts armies and whilst attacking an army of lizardmen he got sucked/kicked/pushed into an Engine of the Gods, an ancient device said to be made by the Old Ones themselves (I believe the same Old Ones who were in opposition to the C'Tan) and he was lost in the warp. After a time he was spat out again onto a world in the 41st Millenium, where, after he got his bearings, he set about bending it to his will until he was in a high and comfortable position, then onto the rest of the story with Inquisitor Hale. Although the second idea does technically work (Provided they are the same universe) I don't much like it.

Or alternatively He could have been a Noble who either succumbed to a rare virus that essentially makes you into the traditional type of vampire or a magos Biologis could have approached him to be a test subject on hat he guaranteed would make him into a superhuman much like a Space Marine but neither of them could predict the terrible consequences of this genetic strain being introduced into human DNA.

Although as DapperAnarchist points out there is a Vampire species in 40k I wanted mine to be more of a human than a creature of the warp or an alien.

Offline MarcoSkoll

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Re: The Count and his cold-bodied accomplices
« Reply #38 on: April 11, 2013, 01:51:02 PM »
I always thought that the Warhammer Fantasy universe and the Warhammer 40K universe were the same just with the time difference.
Noooooooooooooo.

An easy disproof of that is that in the 40k universe, Slaanesh didn't exist until the Eye of Terror was formed in M30, by which time you were past the Dark/Golden Age of Technology and around about the time of the Great Crusade and Horus Heresy.
In the 40k canon, their past might as well be assumed to be pretty much our universe - we know Terra is Earth, given maps and the fact many other of the Sun's planets/moons are in the background (Mars, Titan, Jupiter, etc). Maps of the WHFB world make it clear that it is not Earth.

Officially, they're separate universes. There was previously the notion that perhaps the Warhammer World was in the 40k universe, isolated by warp storms for millennia, but that got thoroughly retconned out. Given that WH40K has weapons on the planet destroying scale, it made the WHFB world a little impotent in comparison.

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Although as DapperAnarchist points out there is a Vampire species in 40k I wanted mine to be more of a human than a creature of the warp or an alien.
I think you might be able to push him as a mutant or corrupted by (but not a creature of) the warp - maybe through sorcery, daemonic pact or virus, whatever.

I'm sure there's enough unpleasant types in the 41st millennium that wouldn't mind a bit of a warp jiggery-pokery to make them immortal at the cost of others.
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Offline mirryhalo

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Re: The Count and his cold-bodied accomplices
« Reply #39 on: April 11, 2013, 02:36:45 PM »
I always thought that the Warhammer Fantasy universe and the Warhammer 40K universe were the same just with the time difference.
Noooooooooooooo.


Ok well that makes it a lot easier to decide how he's come upon these vampiric powers I think to have him as a vampire that requires human blood for sustenance and can raise the dead a pact with the dark gods may be slightly more what I'm looking for rather than a virus or new genetic strain. I'm thinking possibly he was a noble whose family was in connection with chaos worshipping cults who tempted him with dark power increased strength speed and resilience an offer he couldn't say no to. Only to find out afterwards that he was neither living nor dead, dependant on the life force of other humans to survive. I think if we link this in with the other back stories i've pieced together of him it comes together quite nicely.

Offline Hiver20

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Re: The Count and his cold-bodied accomplices
« Reply #40 on: April 11, 2013, 05:47:16 PM »
I always thought that the Warhammer Fantasy universe and the Warhammer 40K universe were the same just with the time difference.

Actually according to the new Daemon of Chaos and the Chaos Daemon codex`s they are connected but only because the world of Warhammer fantasy is a world with the warp and also the the new stories in both books does suggest that they are joined up and that the Realm of Chaos and the Eye of Terror are connected. Because how else could you explain there being Daemons and Chaos beings in both universes as well as Squats, Eldar/Dark Eldar. But then again I have only recently found this out as well as being quite new to the whole universes of Inquisitior. So he could be a Vampire from the world of Warhammer he would of just had to part through the Realms of Chaos, so most probable going insane by then foe of it as well losing his soul to the Dark Gods to gain more power so he can get through to the 40k universe.

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Offline MarcoSkoll

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Re: The Count and his cold-bodied accomplices
« Reply #41 on: April 11, 2013, 06:09:24 PM »
Because how else could you explain there being Daemons and Chaos beings in both universes as well as Squats, Eldar/Dark Eldar.
Using parallels as incontrovertible proof they're the same universe would also mean Space Marines are about to launch a drop pod assault on Middle Earth.

Honestly, I'd really give it a miss, because it frankly sounds like it's on the same level as a bad fan-fiction where "OMG I'm in the WH40K universe how did that happen WTF this is awesome I wanna be a space marine". As with all of these things, Mat Ward needs a slap.

It was reasonably done in the Liber Chaotica books where the 40K stuff was all portrayed glimpses from the visions and ramblings of an increasingly mad character, but it's not a good thing to do in this case. There's no need to do it, and it's frankly really out of place.
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Offline mirryhalo

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Re: The Count and his cold-bodied accomplices
« Reply #42 on: April 11, 2013, 06:18:41 PM »
Yeah so I've decided that I'm going to go with the deal with the dark gods. As I said before he was from a noble family who dabbled in a little of the dark arts and chaos worshipping to keep power and influence but Dragos fell into it quite heavily and made a deal to gain superhuman power as a drawback he must drink the blood of other humans to survive.

Offline Koval

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Re: The Count and his cold-bodied accomplices
« Reply #43 on: April 11, 2013, 06:37:13 PM »
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Because how else could you explain there being Daemons and Chaos beings in both universes as well as Squats, Eldar/Dark Eldar.
Because Games Workshop wanted a sci-fi setting with familiar fantasy elements, hence what we were probably supposed to recognise initially as Elves In Space and Dwarves In Space, and hence the Chaos tie-in to link the two settings on a thematic level and identify them as Games Workshop's own settings. Canonically, the two are not related; they just happen to share a few things, like Chaos.

In any case, I can't speak for the Fantasy Daemons book, but I can find no suggestions at all that the two settings are in any way linked in Codex: Daemons -- the "Realm of Chaos" here is just another name for the Warp, and the idea of landmarks in the Formless Wastes is basically what happens when you try to superimpose some kind of sense on the nature of the Warp, where physics is a joke you tell your mates.

None of this is new.

Mirry: Having the Count be a follower of Chaos makes perfect sense. You even get the option of deciding which of the Chaos Powers gets to curse him. I personally went for Nurgle when I threw my parasite-version together*, but there are compelling cases for all of them. For example, Khorne's obvious because BLOOD FOR THE BLOOD GOD, but Tzeentch might've just wanted to futz with the Count for giggles.


*This despite none of my resulting vampire factions paying Nurgle much attention. But Nurgle loves all of his children, even the rebellious ones.

Offline mirryhalo

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Re: The Count and his cold-bodied accomplices
« Reply #44 on: April 11, 2013, 08:18:31 PM »
Yes so Chaos worshipper it is I was originally going to Khorne as we have said for the obvious reasons of blood for the Blood God but then I thought he'll want the blood for himself and I thought he's not the blood crazed berserker kind of guy he's the more decadent luxury and power so I thought Slanesh would be perfect as I think as well as going with that Slanesh would be more of the type who would make someone a vampire with the type of strengths and powers they have as well as lifestyle