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First character (unguided, no malice (not deliberately op)). Criticism Sought.

Started by Inquisitor Vale, December 26, 2015, 05:54:13 PM

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Inquisitor Vale

Inquisitor Ollanius Sabbat Sebastian Vale, Ordo Hereticus (Amalathian)

Born: 691.M41, Alpha Calixtine (aged 392).
Background still worked upon. Filling four centuries of life is difficult!

WS   BS   S   T   I   Wp   Sg   Nv   Ld   Spd
55   37   35   65   20   90   95   90   90   2

WS: That of a 'competent human' (40-60) slightly improved by long years of fights.
BS: That of a 'competent human' (30-40), ditto.
S: Finally settled on less than a fit man, trying to balance augmetics and age.
T: Quite high – more than a 'normal human' to allow for the augmetics.
I: Very low. An old man heavily augmeticised will not move fast.
Wp: V. high. An Inquisitor venerable, respected and intensely devout. A formidable mind.
Sg: A learned man with an excellent memory who has spent four centuries working and studying.
Ld: Three hundred and sixty years an Inquisitor will produce an iron will and command.
Nv: V. high on account of long years of service in the Inquisition, few horrors can shake him.

Talents:
Force of Will
Leader

Weapons:
Power Sword
Bolt Pistol

Armour:
Robes (Armour Value of 2) on chest, abdomen, groin, right leg and left arm.
Robes (AV of 2) + advanced bionic leg (+2) on left leg. [omit movement increase to indicate age] = 4 *
Robes (AV of 2) + advanced bionic arm (+2) on right arm. [Strength 60 right arm, lowered because of age] = 4 *
1x Advanced Bionic Lung (as Average Bionic Lungs)
Rosarius*

* These are not true bionics given in one piece, but rather augmetics built up to a degree that the limb is now almost entirely mechanical.

Rules for Rosarius (homebrewed)
3D6 protection against all types of hits.
Whenever hit, its reaction is equivalent to a photon flash flare going off, centred on the character (to the effects of which he is immune).

Inquisitor Ollanius Sabbat Vale, Ordo Hereticus (Amalathian)

Raghnall

No one really seems to get things right the first time, but at least you haven't made all of the same mistakes as most new players.

Firstly, I think most people would rather that you called the thread something else, potentially the name of the character, as 'First character', is somewhat dull and it becomes hard to distinguish between these sorts of topics.

It is rather difficult to properly evaluate a character without background, but you have managed to give me some feeling of who the character is with what little you have given us so far, so well done in that regard.

As for the profile, the mental stats really tend rather to the high side, where as the physical stats are extremely low. Stats in the 90s should be used extremely sparingly, but you have four on the one character. You could probably stand to lose 10 points from each of your mental stats and still paint the image you want to. Physically however, he's a wreck. His WS is acceptable for less fighty Inquisitor with more of a focus on mental, and is actually two points higher than my namesake, and his T is fine. BS is really low and makes me wonder where you have got the description of 'a competent human' from, as it doesn't match with the LRB or the introduction to this site. A BS of 37 really suggests someone who barely knows how to use gun (i've never fired a gun in my life, and I reckon I would still warrant a BS in the mid-30s). For an Inquisitor whose almost 400, a value 20-30 points higher would be more appropriate, although the later is starting to get more into marksman territory. Strength I will leave, as you haven't made it clear if that is his overall natural strength or the strength of his remaining non-bionic arm. I is extremely low, and the general consensus is that most Inquisitors have to be quick thinking enough to warrant speed 5, with some at speed 4. Anyone below speed 4 is going to struggle to find any use in the Inquisition in any role other than bound to a desk, and certainly shouldn't make Inquisitor, even if he has slowed down with age.

Force of will should only be used for someone to stupid or suicidal to feel any sense of self preservation, and mere bravery is better represented by a high NV, which you already have.

This seems to be a fairly subtle man, but a power sword and bolt pistol are not subtle weapons. They both scream 'extremely rich/important person here' and would make undercover work nigh-on impossible, and are both capable of taking a character out of the game in one hit. The might be fine for a major end-of-campaign battle, but please pick something else for general use. Finally a rosarius simply contains a conversion field, so there was no real need to upgrade it, when it is potent enough already.

All in all, better than the normal monsters created by new players, but please follow my advice, and I look forward to seeing the background.

Lord Borak

The stats seem a little off. The physical stats seem a little low whilst the mental stats seem a touch to high.

WS: This is fine, bit hard to say not knowing is back ground but it's average for a decently trained human - Which he is.

BS: This is low. Like Civilian low. That's the sort of BS I'm going to use for my NPCs. A Guardsman is going to be around 40-50 with a Veteran being 50-60 so you should really look at upping him to around these levels (he's had a long time to practise his aim).

Str: Again, this is pretty low, but fair enough. I think that a well conected and respected Inquisitor like your man would have sorted out some bionics/juvenants to offset his age. Vale is going to have to hold his Bolt Pistol two handed or he is going to fall over with the first shot/break his wrist.

T: Probably a bit high. I usually leave this level of toughness for my 'fighty' characters like pit fighters and Guard Veterans. If Vale is mostly bionic you could just give him a blanket AV2 on all locations and T50.

I: Just from a gaming perspective, Vale isn't going to be achieving anything and this will make for a boring character. His advanced bionics should atleast get him somewhere back to normal human levels which is spd3-4.

Nv: He might have 'seen it all' but he also must realise he's not the pillar of fortitude he once was. If Plasma Bolts start flying around he's not going to just stand around and wait to get hit (his advanced age proves that he's not that stupid). Make his Nv high, maybe 70-80 but maybe make him immune to fearsome and treat terrifying things as fearsome. The 'Force of Will' ability is more for completely mindless things like Archoflagellants and Black Templars.

MarcoSkoll

The others have already addressed many of my points (I will re-stress that this is a good first start, and clearly shows good intentions), and it is hard to evaluate a character profile without a background to use as a point of reference, but I'll run through stuff anyway.

If I may, my treatise on character creation is here, under the spoiler bar (although I will at some point tidy it up and put it on the Carthax Wiki).

(I'm assuming rounding to fives is just for the early draft, but if not, consider a bit more variety. It is a D100 system, after all... :P)

- WS: Okay if you want him to be competent.
- BS: 37 is more towards mediocre than competent.
- S: If he's fading, this is okay for a base strength. However, I'd tone back his bionic's strength somewhat more, as the original stats for them were really rather overgenerous.
- T: Whether it's appropriate depends on quite how augmented he is these days, but a toughness of 65 is perhaps a bit more than "quite high"

- I: Although Vale is nearly four centuries old, he is still going out on field operations (rather than having retired to an administrative role and working through agents), so he's unlikely to be quite that doddering in his old age. (Indeed, his WS of 55 suggests he's still relatively limber).
Given that Initiative represents things other than just physical agility (like perceptiveness and decisiveness), I'd boost his Initiative to least the 40s.
If necessary, reduce his movement rates instead (-1 to most movement speeds and can't sprint or something like that).

- Mental statistics: As Raghnall says, he could lose 10 points of each of those and still give the effect of a determined, well reasoned, brave and charismatic individual. (Although I'd perhaps argue for him to choose at least one area which isn't quite such a strength).

- Force of Will: I prefer to use skills like this not for bravery, but instead for a character who doesn't feel fear at all - and to be honest, a character who doesn't feel fear when faced down by a daemon prince is a total lunatic.  ::)
I sometimes use "Strong Will" (unofficial skill, ignoring fearsome, treating terrifying as fearsome by one level) for moderately sane characters, but generally backed up by enough melee prowess that the character could actually feel reasonably confident if they got in a scrap with an Ork or Arcoflagellant.

- Other talents: He doesn't necessarily need more, but my personal taste is to help use special rules to help build a character's unique traits and skill set. Most of my characters have at least one custom skill, in order to distinguish them from the trillions of other people in the galaxy.

- Weapons: A bolt pistol and power sword don't really fit with his otherwise scholarly and subtle character. In my mind, I'm seeing things more like digital weapons, a shock-cane that doubles as an aid for his tired legs or a robust but powerful laspistol (much easier on old arms than the weight and recoil of a bolter).
S.Sgt Silva Birgen: "Good evening, we're here from the Adeptus Defenestratus."
Captain L. Rollin: "Nonsense. Never heard of it."
Birgen: "Pick a window. I'll demonstrate".

GW's =I= articles

Inquisitor Vale

Changes are in red.

Inquisitor Ollanius Sabbat Sebastian Vale, Ordo Hereticus (Amalathian)

Born: 621.M41, Alpha Calixtine (aged 392). 


WS   BS   S   T   I    Wp   Sg   Nv   Ld   Spd
55    57   35  60 60 80   85     70   80     4

Clarification: S 35 denotes the strength of his relatively unaugmented left arm. His heavily augmented right arm has strength 50

WS: That of a 'competent human' (40-60) slightly improved by long years of fights.
BS: A competent gunman, though not a marksman.
S: Finally settled on less than a fit man, trying to balance augmetics and age.
T: Quite high – more than a 'normal human' to allow for the augmetics.
I: Very low. An old man heavily augmeticised will not move fast.
Wp: V. high. An Inquisitor venerable, respected and intensely devout. A formidable mind.
Sg: A learned man with an excellent memory who has spent four centuries working and studying.
Ld: Three hundred and sixty years an Inquisitor will produce an iron will and command.
Nv: V. high on account of long years of service in the Inquisition, few horrors can shake him.

Talents:
Leader

Special Rules:

Advanced Age
Despite bracing by augmetics and drugs, Inquisitor Vale is an aged man. He cannot sprint and suffers the following movement penalties:

Sneaking: -1 yard
Crawling: -1 yard
Walking: -1 yard
Evading: -2 yards
Running: -2 yards

Strong Will
Inquisitor Vale has served the God-Emperor for over three centuries and seen many horrors. He will meet them now with righteous wrath. He is not subject to the limitations imposed by the trait ''Fearsome''. Characters possessing the trait ''Terrifying'' affect him as if they possessed the trait ''Fearsome''.

Weapons:
Las-pistol

In the event of it being his sole weapon, I am considering elaborating on the idea of a powerful laspistol to mean some sort of ancient, perhaps archaeotech weapon given to him somewhere on his long career, perhaps as a mark of esteem. An inferno pistol is a possibility as he is a Witch-Hunter and could administer the cleansng flame of He-on-Terra's wrath to all foes he meets.

Something like this (an intended improvement on the laspistol following this:http://warhammer40k.wikia.com/wiki/Archeotech_Laspistol)

Archaeotech Laspistol
Type: Pistol   
Range: C   
Acc: –      
Damage: 2D6 1D3    
Shots: 35
Rld: 2
Wt: 15

Unwilling to use digital weaponry as it is of Xenos origin and so anathema. Interested to receive other suggestions, particularly how to implement cane ideas.


Robes (Armour Value of 2) on chest, abdomen, groin, right leg and left arm.
Robes (AV of 2) + advanced bionic leg (+2) on left leg. [omit movement increase to indicate age] = 4 *
Robes (AV of 2) + advanced bionic arm (+2) on right arm. [Strength 50 right arm, lowered because of age] = 4 *
1x Advanced Bionic Lung (as Average Bionic Lungs)
Refractor Shield (2D6)

* These are not true bionics given in one piece, but rather augmetics built up to a degree that the limb is now almost entirely mechanical. 

Background to follow.
Inquisitor Ollanius Sabbat Vale, Ordo Hereticus (Amalathian)

Raghnall

As Marco has already noted, all of your stats except from BS are multiples of 5, which is a little boring given that we use a base 10 numerical system, so there are ten different ways for any number to end. Just tweak them a tiny bit to give some more variety. It could even be as simple as adding d6 to and then subtracting another d6 from each stat. Other than that, the profile looks good, and the advanced age rules are certainly much better than an absurdly low speed.

Regarding weapons, the laspistol is alright, but consider taking a look at Marco's Revised Inquisitor Armoury (which can be found as a link in Marco's signature). It contains 60 different types of stub/auto weapons, 16 shotguns, 14 bolt weapons, 2 assault cannons, 6 plasma weapons, 5 melta weapons, 5 flamer weapons, 5 grenade launchers, 3 rocket launchers, many other bizarre and exotic weapons, new types of specialist ammunition, sights and grenades, and rules to create custom lasweapons with literally thousands of possible combinations (11250 possible laspistols and 10000 possible lasguns, not including sights/suspensors/master-crafting/etc). Far more comprehensive than the LRB armoury, and solves the issue present in the rulebook where lasweapons are generally outclassed by their solid-shot counterparts. Unfortunately there is no such resource for melee weapons, but there are still all sorts of interesting things you could do with a cane, if you have the resources of an Inquisitor. Fit it with a shock generator, and then depending on the length it could use the same rules as a shock maul, function as a shock maul with reach 3, or even a staff with the special rules of a shock weapon. You could take inspiration from rogue trader in the form of the concealed-bolter cane, which can function as a single-shot bolter or bolt pistol* and this could plausibly be combined with the shock generator in the other end. If it was custom made for the Inquisitor, the I would recommend something like the shock weapon and concealed-bolted cane, maybe with a built in auspex. For an older object, the explorator article suggests that you can represent archaeotech using psychic powers, and gives rules for doing so; a cane would perhaps be most appropriate with an offensive power such as fireball, firestorm, storm of lightning, psychic impel, etc or maybe sanctuary. Finally, you could resort to the old witch hunter classic, and use a null rod. I'm not quite sure how to represent that rules-wise, but I would start with an ordinary staff, make it resistant to power weapons, and then confer the wielder a toned-down version of the untouchable rules from the Revised Inquisitor Psychic Powers Archive, and finally add on bonus damage against psykers and daemons.

Hopefully thats given you some more ideas, and hasn't overwhelmed you.

*They can be reloaded, but it takes too long to do so in game.

greenstuff_gav

Quote from: MarcoSkoll on December 27, 2015, 12:48:44 AM
power sword don't really fit with his otherwise scholarly and subtle character
i like the idea he's got an ornate powersword left over from his more active days, because he carrys it, doesn't mean he's willing to use it!
i make no apologies, i warned you my ability to roll ones was infectious...

Build Your Imagination

Inquisitor Vale

Many grateful thanks to you all. I shall look at the extended rulebook and all of your suggestions in the morning.
God bless, as ever,
][ O.S.V.
Inquisitor Ollanius Sabbat Vale, Ordo Hereticus (Amalathian)

Raghnall

Quote from: greenstuff_gav on December 27, 2015, 08:42:44 PM
because he carrys it, doesn't mean he's willing to use it!

Fair point Gav, and if he doesn't activate the power field, then it isn't really any more obvious than a normal sword.

greenstuff_gav

i could see it like my Ultramarine; displays it with honour, more of an icon than a pigsticker!
i make no apologies, i warned you my ability to roll ones was infectious...

Build Your Imagination

Inquisitor Vale

Minor, more or less random revision of statistics.

WS   BS   S   T   I    Wp  Sg   Nv   Ld   Spd
55    57   35  61 62 82    84    73  81     4
Inquisitor Ollanius Sabbat Vale, Ordo Hereticus (Amalathian)

MarcoSkoll

Quote from: Inquisitor Vale on December 27, 2015, 06:39:21 PMUnwilling to use digital weaponry as it is of Xenos origin and so anathema.
That would make him more hardline than your previous discussion has suggested. The Imperium's xenophobia is mostly focused on dangerous or intelligent species; Being a non-sapient species (with little sign of intelligence beyond being technosavants), a Jokaero is normally considered about as much of an enemy as a Grox.

For an Imperial citizen, owning such technology is normally a status symbol, not an invitation to get investigated by the Arbites or Inquisition for xenotech.

QuoteAdvanced Age
I'd probably lose the penalties to sneaking and crawling - those actions are tediously slow anyway - and penalise running only one yard, because giving him a maximum speed of 4 yards an action is likely to be a nuisance in game, both for you and GMs.

Quote from: Raghnall on December 27, 2015, 08:07:07 PMUnfortunately there is no such resource for melee weapons
Actually, Helst and Charax put together a pretty good system, which is part of the reason the RIA doesn't cover melee weapons (the other part is that I know guns better than swords). The website for it is gone these days, but I have the pages saved to my computer somewhere. I'll see if I can dig them out.

Quote from: greenstuff_gav on December 27, 2015, 08:42:44 PMi like the idea he's got an ornate powersword left over from his more active days, because he carrys it, doesn't mean he's willing to use it!
Well, it's possible, but the question is then whether he was that way when he was younger.
S.Sgt Silva Birgen: "Good evening, we're here from the Adeptus Defenestratus."
Captain L. Rollin: "Nonsense. Never heard of it."
Birgen: "Pick a window. I'll demonstrate".

GW's =I= articles

Raghnall

Quote from: MarcoSkoll on December 28, 2015, 12:51:38 PM
That would make him more hardline than your previous discussion has suggested. The Imperium's xenophobia is mostly focused on dangerous or intelligent species; Being a non-sapient species (with little sign of intelligence beyond being technosavants), a Jokaero is normally considered about as much of an enemy as a Grox.

I agree*, but it does bring this image to mind.
http://4.bp.blogspot.com/-ZSbjsjxZ7zw/TqtuDl8iQzI/AAAAAAAAAZs/zvh59-rDWLY/s1600/jokaero+suffer+not+the+alien+to+live+oh+wait.jpg

Quote from: MarcoSkoll on December 28, 2015, 12:51:38 PM
Actually, Helst and Charax put together a pretty good system, which is part of the reason the RIA doesn't cover melee weapons (the other part is that I know guns better than swords). The website for it is gone these days, but I have the pages saved to my computer somewhere. I'll see if I can dig them out.

I have actually used Charax and Heist's rules before**, but after the website went down, I thought it was no longer available. Should've known you would save it.

Quote from: greenstuff_gav on December 27, 2015, 10:44:23 PM
i could see it like my Ultramarine; displays it with honour, more of an icon than a pigsticker!

A ceremonial weapon can be rather nice, but when something so powerful is seldom drawn, it raises questions***, however once you answer those, it could add a lot more depth to the character.

Quote from: Inquisitor Vale on December 28, 2015, 10:19:42 AM
Minor, more or less random revision of statistics.

WS   BS   S   T   I    Wp  Sg   Nv   Ld   Spd
55    57   35  61 62 82    84    73  81     4


That's exactly what we mean by varied digits. I think you've got the stats right now.

*There are probably a few human-made digital weapons still around from the DAoT, so he might be able to get away with a digi-weapon even if he was that xenophobic, but I imagine they are substantially rarer than the Jokaero version.
**I rather liked how freeform and customisable it was, although iirc it did mean you had to exercise common sense. A reach 1 staff or falchion is just silly.
***Especially in the hands of a space marine. The Astartes could go into battle armed with nought but a butter knife, and they still wouldn't be subtle. Still, it isn't unprecedented; just look at Cypher for example.

Cortez

Some thoughts on your revisions:

WS 55: This seems a bit low for someone of his long experience. It's also somewhat low from a gameplay perspective, as he's liable to get minced whenever he come up against any sort of close combat specialist and is only slightly higher than the average npc (usually WS 50). I think the lower strength is a better way to reflect his age and frailty than a reduced stat here, you may also want to consider a special rule if you don't want him dodging about like an acrobat (maybe only give him +10 to dodge but a WS in the low 60's)

I like the suggestion some one made of a cane as this would definitely fit the character of an aged Inquisitor. Although I'd suggest a sword cane of some type, which could be fencing/rapier style weapon e.g something like this: Reach 3, D10 damage, 0% parry penalty. In order to make the weapon a bit more special you could give it a low level power field (maybe 2d10 or 3d6 damage -5% pp, so not as powerful and heavy as a standard power sword). Alternatively you could coat it in poison, have it inscribed with pentagrammic/hexagrammic runes, make it a shock weapon or come up with something unique to make it more interesting than just a sword.

I'd be interested to see what other crew members you're intending to accompany him with. A bodyguard type character (with special rules to represent his specific training to protect his master), would probably be advisable and would offset his weaker combat stats.

MarcoSkoll

Quote from: Cortez on December 28, 2015, 02:19:44 PMWS 55: This seems a bit low for someone of his long experience.
As much experience as he may have, if I were writing a character to this kind of brief, mid-50s is where I'd be capping stats like WS & I if I wanted to show he's not as agile and spritely as he once was. A low strength alone wouldn't really convey the whole story of his age.

No, he won't have a good day against a serious melee fighter, but the Inquisition's equivalent of an octogenarian should be rather outclassed in such a case.
S.Sgt Silva Birgen: "Good evening, we're here from the Adeptus Defenestratus."
Captain L. Rollin: "Nonsense. Never heard of it."
Birgen: "Pick a window. I'll demonstrate".

GW's =I= articles