First character (unguided, no malice (not deliberately op)). Criticism Sought.

[Alyster Wick]

The insert quote button isn't working, so this'll have to do.

Inquisitor Vale: "Thanks -- I've just remembered something I was going to ask you re. digital weapons. That the Jokaero were not considered Xenos was something of a surprise -- am I correct in thinking that non-intelligent life other than Man (and the Jokaero are mere parrot-like mimics) are not deemed Xenos?"

It isn't that Jokaero wouldn't be considered Xenos, it's that (if you stop and think about it) there are tons of Xenos used by the Imperium that aren't considered evil/a threat due to their lack of intellect. Each inhabited planet will have its own "space cows", if you will, who would not be thought of in the same way as Eldar or Tau. In that regard, there are Xenos all over the place, and if you look at a lot of the writing on Jokaero, they're pretty similar to our present day apes, they just have a savant-like ability to craft crazy technology (though not enough cognitive capacity/scale of civiliation to use it in a way that would threaten the imperium any more than a grox stampede).

So I'd say it's more a question of semantics in terms of what is or is not Xenos. Broadly you can break any Xenos down into the camp of threat versus non-threat. Now there will be some gray in there (non-space capable races with primitive tech but enough brain power to resist, for instance) but I'd say the consensus is that using a Joekaro ring is more like eating grox meat than using a gauss flayer. The idea of an Inquisitor so hard line that they wouldn't use Joekaro tech is actually pretty interesting (and definitely an idea worth pursuing), but it just doesn't sound like that's who Vale is.

All that said, now I kind of want to start up an Ordos Vegan who will police the eating habits of Imperial population. No space cow for you!

[MarcoSkoll]

I think Alyster has covered most of what I was going to say about xenos pretty well, so I'll keep that brief.

The jokaero are of course xenos (given they're of non-terrestrial origin), but the Imperium's response to xenos varies wildly. While species like tyranids or lacrymole are "exterminate on sight", the eldar or tau often fall into the category where they're not worth fighting, and there are many examples of the Imperium using xenos as livestock (grox), pets/familiars (gyrinx), riding beasts (mukaali) and the like.

I'm sure you could find sufficiently hard-line individuals who do reject everything alien (although, as Alyster points out, that could present interesting dietary/survival concerns), but the jokaero aren't generally the subject of the Imperium's ire.

Blackouts
As a result of long wielding a Null Rod, Inquisitor Vale has a 10% chance of a blackout (equivalent to being stunned) at the start of a turn.

While it's characterful, I think that would become pretty disruptive to gameplay. (Particularly as he's already got his paranoia rule that's somewhat similar). There might be another way to implement blackouts, but again, I'll have to think on it.

[Inquisitor Vale]

I think this belongs here as I'm inquiring about a concept not a specific model
Most interesting. thanks. Many grateful thanks for all the time and care you're all taking -- I shall think long and hard about it too.

If I can stick in an unrelated question (I might as well rename this thread 'Vale's Warband'), I have been advised at least once to include a 'fighty' character to offset the aging Vale. Unfortunately simply dropping in an Ogryn or a gunslinger ruins the ''subtle...scholarly'' feel I've blundered upon (no credit to me, he started off as a very bland young Inquisitor, then careened off on his own accord), which actually makes him an interesting character. He's definitely not a monodominant now, far from it, an Amalathian.

The band looks like:
Vale + 3 cherubs (who must get rules)
Some sort of autosavant.
Assorted servo-skulls.
and another.

I've been combing the margins of paintings (if there was an inspiring artist I'd say John Blanche) to try and find a suitable archetype that would fit in with a man who is usually found in archives or amongst the Adeptus Terra and Ecclesiarchy.

[Raghnall]

There is an article with rules for Cherubim in the Skoll archive (On Angel's Wings), which I have considered using myself, but I've yet to make a character that would be appropriate for.

As for a more martial character, I think there are several appropriate options, but I agree you shouldn't just add in a random fighter for the sake of it. A drill abbot, crusader or sister of battle would be appropriate for the Ordo Hereticus feel and are appropriately devout, but might not be sufficiently scholarly to fit the warband. A banisher on the other hand would fit the scholarly feel, though that is more Ordo Malleus. Still, they could certainly be of plenty use to a Witch Hunter. You never know when a psyker or heretic will summon a daemon or spontaneously be possessed.

[Inquisitor Vale]

Thank you very much -- I wonder if some suggest 'monodominant' too much to most folk (I don't agree!). What about a Sister Dialogous? They apparently do have military training.

Here is the background for my inquisitor -- please criticise! Is it characterful? Well-written? (or at least not like wading through treacle) -- and so on.

In the words of Canoness Flavia of the Order of the Lexicon, a friend and spiritual counsellor in whose convent Vale often stays, both for research and as a retreat.

Inquisitor Ollanius Vale is an old man, even by the standards of the Emperor's Inquisition. Born almost four centuries ago, the hand that slew Magus Iscariot and lit the pyres of the foul witch-covens of Akelarre now trembles with palsy. Yet he was never a great crusading warrior, a Coteaz or a Lord Hector Rex, reverence them deeply as he does.  His retinue always contained more scholars than swordsmen. Long hours in the Librarium on Sulla's Vigil, or poring over the records of the Ecclesiarchy, bleached his skin as they sharpened his mind. The triumph of his career, the discovery of the Cult of the Marble God, a Chaos cult infesting the corrupt and lax hierarchs of the Ecclesiarchy in twelve systems, sprang from his noticing irregularities in the presentation of candidates to minor benefices spanning two hundred years.

The most striking thing about him, more so even than the formidable intellect or the thin, dry voice, always in High Gothic with his few confidants (a habit, he said, learnt under his old master and kept up to sustain his command of the language and to prevent idle talk) , is his piety. It has a depth and simplicity untouched by arrogance or the doubt which cankers in so many brilliant, pride-sodden minds.  It is a touching sight to see the venerable man stoop to kiss the feet of the assembled dignitaries and even the servitors and lesser clergy in the church or lie on the cold floor in floods of tears at his sins.

His long years of Inquisitorial work have ravaged his body, which is bolstered heavily by augmetics.  Every year, at the time of the Emperor's Ascension, he comes to the convent if he can, and I can see his health is failing. When he comes to stay with us of late, a medicae-servitor has joined his usual scribe -- for his aging frame, and for another reason. He is now always seen wrapped in heavy furs and velvets to keep out the cold, gripping his cane firmly. His associates know that the cane is a Null Rod. Though the scholars of the Ordo Malleus are well aware of the baleful effects of these weapons; and Vale adopted the cane halfway through his second century,  his mental capacities seem to most as sharp as ever and his eye still gleams with a pale light when hot on a trail.

It takes a closer knowledge to see that the decline has been staved off slowly and with much pain. Needless to say, he knows full well the effects of the Null Rod on his mind – learnt long ago in the library of old Inquisitor Cajetan and accepted with Amalathian resignation -- and has planned for them. The back of Vale's head is gone now, a mass of augmetic tubes, his prodigious memory and learning committed long in advance to cogitators which are then periodically implanted back into his brain when they start to fail. Privately, I may say that there is little more that can be safely done, even with the help of the Mechanicum and his old friend, if I may use the word, Magos Athenagoras* , ever willing to argue with his peers to allow Vale the use of some piece of technology normally reserved for the initiated.

Even with all of these precautions,  I notice ''Old Vale'', as the novices call him,  is apt to wander slightly in conversation, his one remaining hand to shake terribly. He sees foes everywhere and has dreadful nightmares, but all accepted, should the night-sister run to the retreatants' rooms because of the screams, with a gentle smile and his constant saying ''A little more for thee, dear Emperor''.

* Vale always has had an affection for the Mechanicum that goes beyond intellectual curiosity, seeing their replacement of the flesh with metal as having much the same goal as the cold baths, hair shirts and flagellations, the means of mortification of the Ecclesiarchy, he makes use of.

I do not think one can say that the Magi of the Adeptus Mechanicus have friends. Athenagoras, on his part,  appreciates  a fellow-scholar's mind and especially Vale's taste, not for prideful and dangerous speculations, but ordered facts. He sees him, perhaps, as a man as devoted to the Quest for Knowledge as anyone can be outside the Priesthood of Mars, and sees also, perhaps, the unchanging perfection of a machine in the unchanging Imperium that Vale desires.

[MarcoSkoll]

I have to disagree that any character added has to be "scholarly" (although that's not to say that they can't be), as that disregards the role of the foil in literature. A character who contrasted Vale's intelligence and learning could throw such traits into relief, making Vale seem more scholarly in comparison.

Beyond that, the purpose of any given agent is very often to provide skills that the Inquisitor himself does not himself possess. I don't imagine Vale would necessarily be picking bodyguards for their brains; while Inquisitors can afford to be pretty picky, given the billions of individuals from which they can choose their agents, education is probably not the primary criterion he'd be using.

As far as the new background, it looks good to me!

[Alyster Wick]

I'll check the background out later, but re: the discussion on Vale's minion, you shouldn't feel bad picking a more combat focused character. I whole heartedly agree w/ Marco on this one. There's no reason Vale would only surround himself w/ scholars, and given the fact that he's likely heading into fights (if he's participating in scenarios it means he's probably deliberately putting himself in situations where he knows there's a risk of a fight) then he'll definitely want someone who is handy with a/many weapon(s).

There are definitely interesting Imperial archetypes you could pick (or invent!) but you could always go for the tried and true ex-IG storm trooper or something like that. An Inquisitor of Vale's learning would have the resources to find someone like that and it might actually be a boon for him to have a non-ambitious guardian who doesn't care to look at whatever tomes Vale is studying up on. Having a purely military-minded warband member means that not only will Vale be physically protected, but he'll know that the knowledge he digs up won't fall into the wrong hands because his body guard doesn't even have to knowledge base to understand what it is they're looking for. Plus I love introducing odd-couple dynamics into warbands.

Anyway, you can do whatever you'd like, but as it's your first time you should know not to feel bad including a combat-y character. Some folks who look at the strong reaction that purely martial/over powered warbands get when posted on the Conclave decide to go in the complete opposite direction and end up feeling bad if they have any characters that are competent in a fight. So again, don't feel bad including a character that is competent in a fight. It's logical, go for it!

[Inquisitor Vale]

Hello,
Many grateful thanks for all your advice. I've actually retained the character I had here before for use with rewritten fluff.

This is the promised combat specialist. I eventually settled on a crusader (chosen because a common private soldier, even if seconded to the Inquisition, could not follow Inquisitor Vale wherever he goes. A robed figure, however, is common in the retinues of great officials in the Imperium). The Blanche drawings are beautiful.  I'm worried he's too strong, though I'm delighted with the character himself. The character is drawn wholesale from the illustration in the lower corner of this sheet. I'm inclined to tone down the weapons. The more lightly armed and armoured crusader with the shield might be more suitable. In fairness, however, the is the only intended combat specialist in the warband.

http://i654.photobucket.com/albums/uu263/WBKurgan/Fifty_Fiff_Bad_Redz/Inquisitor_Orks/john_blanche_warriorpriests_zps89d85dff.jpg


Brother Sabas of the Golden Throne (Golesh Kalaman)

Brother Sabas is a quiet, taciturn, morose-seeming man. He was born in 915.M41, the second son of a hereditary lay-sacristan on the Shrine-World of Ultima Andreae. He lost his parents to cardiac consumption in 925.M41 and was inducted into the Schola Progenium. His sturdy piety and considerable strength were both obvious and he seemed a natural warrior.

In 931.M41 he declined, almost uniquely to my knowledge, the headmaster's desire to dismiss him to be trained as a storm-trooper. When ordered to explain, he said that he could not keep up the life of prayer he had been used to, both at home and in the Schola, on the field and feared that he should be corrupted by the loose examples he might meet. Faced with such humble honesty, the headmaster , after the flogging required by the rule, told him that it would not be counted a dishonour to choose a state of greater perfection. He ordered him to enter the Crusader House on the planet, a small filiation of the Sons of the Apocalypse.

This little I was told by the Master of the Schola when I came to the small Inquisitorial fortress on Ultima Andreae for the first time  in 943.M41, having lost an eye and been badly tried by the Cult of the Marble God. My intention was to spend the remainder of the year in retreat. Though I recovered well, I knew I was failing and badly felt the need of a guard who could accompany me at all times, so I applied to the crusader house. Brother Sabas, having spent twelve years in silence, prayer and practice, was chosen to accompany me.

He has been at my side for seventy-one years, silent, devout and dependable. His regularity and piety are humbling, a warrior-saint of the Crusade walking again in our times,  almost reminding me of a lesser version of the god-warriors of the Astartes. He talks little still, even to me, loyal to his vows of forgetting all but the glory of the Emperor and His Inquisition,  but I value his silent prayers and steady hand more than any familiarities.


WS  BS  St  T    I     Wp  Sg  Nv  Ld
72   67  75  64  66   60   53  72   68

Augmentation
One average bionic eye [possibly to be removed to avoid too many bionic eyes].

Wargear
1x Close-Combat Servo-Skull
1x Medicae Servo-Skull

Weapons
Power Falchion (Rules as for Frost Blade double-handed – I would only rarely use this weapon)
Bolt Pistol
MIU Laspistol? Psycannon? [unsure what picture shows -- inclined to use psycannon as it makes sense]
Short sword.
2 Krak grenades.

Armour
Carapace armour on chest.
Robes on head, arms, groin and legs.

Special Rules
These are a point of difficulty. I should like to include ''Bodyguard'' but I can't find the article (Seeing the Warp) in which it is detailed. A prominent part of Mr Blanche's drawing is the heavy book he carries (I imagine it as the Breviary of his crusader order –  i.e. the daily prayers he must recite) and I wondered if some benefit could be conferred from holy chanting from this book as an action.

[Raghnall]

Here is a link to the Skoll archive. Look under 'Specialist games site files: individual files' and the bodyguard rules are in the file titled 'Navigators'.
http://www.the-conclave.co.uk/forum/index.php?topic=34.0

There is another file, in the 'Dark Magenta Articles' folder, 'The autoquill is mightier than the sword', which contains rules for certain books. Perhaps one of the mandates would be appropriate. The stats look good for the most part, with the exception of his BS, which while absolutely fine in and of itself, seems improbably high for a crusader, which is normally very much a close combat archetype. Maybe others will correct me, and maybe Brother Sabas is a rather well rounded combatant, but for a traditional Crusader, I would advise you to reduce the BS by a little, and possibly add on a close combat skill. Not bad at all though, and I would still be perfectly willing to play you with stats as they are.

On the other hand, you are right to think the weapons need toning down. A bolt pistol, psycannon or power weapon can all conceivably put a character out of the game in one hit, and three such weapons on one character are definitely too many. Don't feel that you can't have a character based on that image, but I would advise you to replace the weapons with slightly less powerful substitutes. I would recommend a laspistol for the MIU weapon, some sort of fancy autopistol (antique duelling pistol?) in place of the bolt pistol, and either an Eviscerator or some sort of holy weapon instead of the Power Falchion. We don't really seem to see all that many chain weapons.

[Inquisitor Vale]

Many grateful thanks.  I've incorporated all but one of your suggestions and would be grateful for advice on Close Combat rules. I'm going to be slightly difficult and retain the power-sword until such time as I get a second opinion that it has to go (I hope you don't mind) as it is such an important part of the image of a Crusader.

The chief restriction I mean to put on it is a personal one. I trust myself -- I hope -- enough to remember to play according to the story and not for advantage. I would use it only in dire straits with tacit permission. I don't know if players would regard this (''a gentleman's word is his bond'' (!) ) as sufficient. I have slightly reduced its power (i.e. it is now merely a two-handed Power Sword with a slight +2 damage advantage, not a full blown Frost Blade) but I suspect this will make little difference as they're all very powerful.


Brother Sabas of the Golden Throne (Golesh Kalaman)

Brother Sabas is a quiet, taciturn, morose-seeming man. He was born in 915.M41, the second son of a hereditary lay-sacristan on the Shrine-World of Ultima Andreae. He lost his parents to cardiac consumption in 925.M41 and was inducted into the Schola Progenium. His sturdy piety and considerable strength were both obvious and he seemed a natural warrior.

In 931.M41 he declined, almost uniquely to my knowledge, the headmaster's desire to dismiss him to be trained as a storm-trooper. When ordered to explain, he said that he could not keep up the life of prayer he had been used to, both at home and in the Schola, on the field and feared that he should be corrupted by the loose examples he might meet. Faced with such humble honesty, the headmaster , after the flogging required by the rule, told him that it would not be counted a dishonour to choose a state of greater perfection. He ordered him to enter the Crusader House on the planet, a small filiation of the Sons of the Apocalypse.

This little I was told by the Master of the Schola when I came to the small Inquisitorial fortress on Ultima Andreae for the first time  in 943.M41, having lost an eye and been badly tried by the Cult of the Marble God. My intention was to spend the remainder of the year in retreat. Though I recovered well, I knew I was failing and badly felt the need of a guard who could accompany me at all times, so I applied to the crusader house. Brother Sabas, having spent twelve years in silence, prayer and practice, was chosen to accompany me.

He has been at my side for seventy-one years, silent, devout and dependable. His regularity and piety are humbling, a warrior-saint of the Crusade walking again in our times,  almost reminding me of a lesser version of the god-warriors of the Astartes. He talks little still, even to me, loyal to his vows of forgetting all but the glory of the Emperor and His Inquisition,  but I value his silent prayers and steady hand more than any familiarities.


WS  BS  St  T    I     Wp  Sg  Nv  Ld
72   54  75  64  66   60   53  72   68

Augmentation
One average bionic eye [possibly to be removed to avoid too many bionic eyes].

Wargear
1x Close-Combat Servo-Skull
1x Medicae Servo-Skull

Weapons
Crusader's Sword
Reach: 3, Damage: 3D10+2, Parry Penalty -20
The Crusader's Sword is a two-handed power weapon.
Duelling pistol
MIU Laspistol
Short sword.
2 Krak grenades.

Armour
Carapace armour on chest.
Robes on head, arms, groin and legs.

Special Rules
Bodyguard
Feint – ?
First Strike (NB this ability cannot be used with the Power Falchion – it is too bulky and is slung across his back) –??

A prominent part of Mr Blanche's drawing is the heavy book he carries (I imagine it as the Breviary of his crusader order –  i.e. the daily prayers he must recite) and I wondered if some benefit could be conferred from holy chanting from this book as an action.

[greenstuff_gav]

Sons of the Apocalypse?
i only ask as was my first custom marine chapter :lol:

[Inquisitor Vale]

Nope! Border of the Blanche painting -- the caption is ''Son of the Apocalypse'' -- quite a good name.

[MarcoSkoll]

I should like to include ''Bodyguard'' but I can't find the article (Seeing the Warp) in which it is detailed.

I don't like that particular skill, as it breaks my "No ruleplay" principle (by mandating that the bodyguard must stay within 6 yards of his master). Special rules should certainly encourage a character to act a certain way, but characters should only be forced to do things if they really cannot act otherwise (e.g. if they're being compelled by psychic powers, drugs, mental conditioning, etc; Vows, however sacred, do not count, as the character could choose to break them, even if they don't.).

A skill that offers a bodyguard a bonus (like the being able to dive into the path of bullets while going "Noooooo!") for closely shadowing their charge works rather better - in a lot of situations, it makes far more sense for a bodyguard to buy his master time to escape. (Bonus points for yelling "YOU! SHALL NOT! PASS!").

The version I use is essentially a tweaked version of Dodge skill.

A bodyguard may take an initiative test to dive in the way of any attack targeting a model within 6 yards. If this test is passed, the bodyguard is moved into the path of the attack, and the margin of success is applied as a penalty to the attack's hit roll. Any shot/blow that misses due to this margin hits the bodyguard instead.

(I allow this to be used more than once a turn, unlike the Dodge skill - it's not as good as Dodge, as the bodyguard is taking the hits rather than entirely negating them and tends to get stunned if he tries it too much).

~~~~~

Weapon wise... I don't think it's too unreasonable for him to have a power sword of some variety (considering that Vale himself isn't exactly much of a combatant), but I'd definitely agree against the Psycannon. An Inquisitor of the Ordo Malleus might be able to get hold of some of those staggeringly rare rounds, but they're not going to be falling into the hands of lower ranking Hereticus agents in any great quantity.

As an aside about naming, this is a Falchion...

... so Covenant's sword was rather badly named, as the design is obviously influenced by Zweihanders (it's got Parierhaken).

[Alyster Wick]

I like the character, would be interested to hear a bit more about the Sons of the Apocalypse and what he was doing before that 12 years of prayer. His stats are high, but I imagine he spent a lot of time fighting. To Raghnall's point, while a traditional crusader may be a bit more close combat focused there's still nothing wrong with having a higher BS on Sabas if that's in his character. Also, while I generally consider it poor taste to tweak warbands just for the sake of "filling holes" there is also the matter of this being a skirmish game at its heart and if Sabas is your best warrior with a BS of 54 that is something to consider. Again, I wouldn't tell you to increase it just to increase it, but if you're only dropping it to abide by a loose archetype then I'd personally move it back up.

Also, if you want to stick with the frost blade rules go for it. The guy is dangerous but he was recruited to be dangerous. Test play a few games with him and if it turns out he's slicing everyone in half and making games not-fun then tone him down. The way he's described it sounds as though he will be reluctant to use the blade unless it is needed. Sabas seems like a quiet and pious man who was cursed with a physique and talent for combat. If you're RPing him as described I think it'll take care of itself.

As far as guns, you should check out Marco's revised armory and pick some guns from there. What you selected on your second go around is totally fine, but you may find something you fall in love with in the revised armory. Plus the make-your-own-las-weapon section will allow you to build something that fits Sabas's character.

Great stuff! Looking forward to seeing more.

[Raghnall]

Reading it back, I think I came across as overly harsh. I stand by the statement that the original psycannon, bolt pistol, power falchion was a little much, but I really don't want to stop you having the weapon most appropriate for your character! The power sword alone should be fine, and I trust you to use appropriate restraint. Its nasty, but the weapons in the rulebook are there to be used, and this is probably the right character to use that sort of weapon.

BS was maybe dropped a little too low. While the new value is the same as my Crusader's, the other characters in the same warband do cover different areas of combat. If Brother Sabas is the only one with any real talent, then he should be a reasonable shot as well.

As an aside about naming, this is a Falchion...

... so Covenant's sword was rather badly named, as the design is obviously influenced by Zweihanders (it's got Parierhaken).

Marco, you should really have given up on correcting the LRB by now. Falchions are misnamed*, pyromancy is misnamed**, biomancy is misnamed, daemonology is questionable, but not as bad***. Meh.

*You're correct, it should be called a Zweihander or Biddenhander. A flammenschwert is close enough, and immensely awesome.
**Although I am currently in the early stages of designing a genuine pyromancer character, who will be getting his own thread soon.
***I haven't seen you pick up on that last one before, but technically daemonology should be the systematic study of daemons rather than interaction with them, while summoning them should be evocation, and most of the other effects, should be Thaumaturgy.