Cult of the Mechanicus Guidance

[Alyster Wick]

Okay, probably don't need a whole thread for this, but I'm looking to bolster my AdMech bits for a few projects I have. Right now I'm between the Kataphron and the Kastelon minis from the cult mechanicus army.

Pros of both, they have tons of AdMech symbols, which will be useful ten times over.

For the Kataphron, their guns are much more interesting to me. Also, the tracks they have (3 complete sets) would be great for mundane servitors to fill space but also for one or two heftier gun servitos (which I'd really love). There are also tons of little mechanical arms which are fantastic and creepy at 54mm. The main con is that I have no idea what the scale is. It's entire possible that the torsos and heads could fit in 54mm, they also may be useless. Same for the tracks, and if I end up shelling out that kind of cash for some fun guns and a few mechanical arms I could probably clip out of plasticard, well that would just suck.

For the Kastelon, their scale looks right for at least two projects I'm working on in the legs department. Their hands also look great and there are some other fun projects that the armor plating could definitely be used for. Plus, their heads give me visions of a 54mm Master-Blaster, and that's just awesome. Cons, they may just be too darn big. I fell afoul of this years back when I bought the Grey Knight Ripley-from-Aliens suit. Now it just sits there, waiting for me to come up with a monstrosity that big for a scenario some day (the hands may work for Space Marines, will need to double check). Anyway, tangent over. There are definitely more parts in here that I'd just need to "find uses" for as opposed to genuinely exciting things. Also, some of the parts that seem fun to me (IE the weird heads) aren't that complicated. I'm sure they'd look awful on my first try, but I really just need to suck it up and learn to sculpt better.

Anyway, I'm sure this all prefaces responses of "just go learn to sculpt" from the community at large, so let's have it (PS in that case sculpting tips are appreciated).

[seaglen]

I'm not too sure on the Kataphron scale, but I'd assume the torsos and heads are too small for 54mm - the tracks would be great attached to a normal =I= scale torso however, and would make a great servitor (flashback to the old WD battle reports where one warband's gunman ended up with tracked legs following a scenario).

the guns would be fantastic - Im looking at expanding some mechanicus characters, and definitely have my eyes on the exotic looking weapons and bits from the plastic AdMech boxes.

As for the Kastellon - I think they are a tad too big, but with the right trimming the torsos and arms can certainly be used.
As far as personal taste goes, ive never liked the heads (50s sci-fi just doesn't seem to gel with the rest of the Gothic setting to me) and I always thought if i were to make one of these, I'd give it a new head similar to the forgeworld robots.

I'd be interested to see any scale comparison shots too if anyone is able to oblige.

[KaptiDavy]

So can anyone post a pic of those Kataphron busts beside some average 54mm guy? That would clear the picture (as I was also planning to buy some)

The Kastellans seem great for variant marine torsos, but I haven't seen them either personally.... (I saved a warsphinx head for a chaplain, so I'm hoping)

[Alyster Wick]

Yeah, any scale shots would be appreciated if anyone out there has these models (I know someone did a shot with a grid around the Kastellan robot to show its height based on the known diameter of the base, but it's not quite the same as a scale shot).

I stopped by my local GW store a few days ago (it's been a looonnnggg time) and the new manager was actually really great. They're running some Mordheim-ish mod on the current fantasy rules that I may get in on. While I do that I'll be simultaneously trying to offload the gobs of fantasy sprues I have. Long story short, if I can translate those sprues into cash I may go for both of these kits, but that's a longer term project. I'll post if anything comes up it!

[MarcoSkoll]

Well, that was me that did the grid. I can however improve on it, scaling both models up alongside Sgt Fox (who, taking the old picture I clipped him from, is a not-terrible compromise on size between taller/shorter models in the Inquisitor range, if somewhat less bulky than a model like Eisenhorn):


(Should be clickable to rescale)

It's not exactly perfect, but I don't own either model - and you can at least draw some conclusions from that.

Cons, they may just be too darn big. I fell afoul of this years back when I bought the Grey Knight Ripley-from-Aliens suit. Now it just sits there, waiting for me to come up with a monstrosity that big for a scenario some day (the hands may work for Space Marines, will need to double check).

As a tangent on that aside, I think there seems to be sort of a odd valley in the usefulness of models - a region where they're too powerful enough to work as characters, but not powerful enough to work as plot elements.

For an example, a model like Leander just comes across as far more useful to an Inquisitor plot than something like a Predator tank would be, partly because a Warhound Titan is formidable enough that you can see why it could be important in the grand scale of things.
(I did originally have plans to build a Predator turret and sponsons for my Rhino, but I've abandoned those, as the Razorback loadout will suffice for just about any needed "tank" duties, with the bonus of transport space and being less specifically "Space Marine").

Anyway, I'm sure this all prefaces responses of "just go learn to sculpt" from the community at large, so let's have it (PS in that case sculpting tips are appreciated).

Are there any particular areas that you want help in? I do keep telling myself that I should write a sculpting tutorial*, so I could probably start writing various bits and pieces from that.

[seaglen]

Thanks for the grid shot Marco.
after looking at the models, those tracks would be great, but the torso looks a little short and small.
With regards to the robot - how many fingers does it's hands have - that is a Power fist in the making for sure (overpowered in almost every way, but very nice looking gauntlet)

[KaptiDavy]

Thanks for the shot (altough I hoped someone could show them on his table)!
The Kataphron borders on being too small, but what if some 1/35 figures come into play? I routinely buy some labeled as 54mm....

[Cortez]

Thanks for the grid shot Marco.
after looking at the models, those tracks would be great, but the torso looks a little short and small.

I think you if could stretch the torso/midriff with greenstuff it would look ok. The chest and shoulders looks about right although I'd want to see the model and compare it in more detail. The head is so obviously mechanical that I'm not sure the scale matters too much, but that could also be bulked out, given a longer neck etc.

[Alyster Wick]

I was 90% done replying to this when my computer went on the fritz, let's see what I can remember!

I think you if could stretch the torso/midriff with greenstuff it would look ok. The chest and shoulders looks about right although I'd want to see the model and compare it in more detail. The head is so obviously mechanical that I'm not sure the scale matters too much, but that could also be bulked out, given a longer neck etc.

I was thinking of using the various pieces of the Kataphrons in different minis, but I agree. The torsos look good for sleek tech assassins or smaller servitors (for those tough to reach places!). The tracks get a "meh" reaction from me. The individual tracks are the right size, but the center robotic area would need some work. I'd want to mount an ogre torso in the middle to create an imposing combat servitor or at least a useful looking mining servitor. They look a little small at the moment. I definitely think the heads look fun though (I'd especially like to throw one on the Pariah miniature to create an off-putting small techy character).

The Kastellan robots would be great for bitz and larger tech constructs.

With regards to the robot - how many fingers does it's hands have - that is a Power fist in the making for sure (overpowered in almost every way, but very nice looking gauntlet)

99% sure there are 3 fingers, but I don't own one so don't quote me on that.

Anyway, I'm sure this all prefaces responses of "just go learn to sculpt" from the community at large, so let's have it (PS in that case sculpting tips are appreciated).

Are there any particular areas that you want help in? I do keep telling myself that I should write a sculpting tutorial*, so I could probably start writing various bits and pieces from that.

So my biggest thing would just be getting pointers on how many stages the sculpting generally takes and the balance of sculpting w/ uncured putty vs. cutting and sanding cured putty. I'm sometimes left feeling as though ppl are cranking out these masterpieces with a single huge lump of putty when the reality is that there are like 10 stages (although maybe it's closer to three?).

Anyway, tangent. Pointers on faces would be great, especially eyes.

[MarcoSkoll]

So my biggest thing would just be getting pointers on how many stages the sculpting generally takes and the balance of sculpting w/ uncured putty vs. cutting and sanding cured putty.

It depends on exactly what part of a sculpt I'm working on, but I'm assuming you're talking about heads specifically. I tend to sculpt faces in four stages, but in terms of complexity those stages are rather "How to draw an owl":


(To use a less sweary version of the meme...)

#1: A blob that serves as a "skull".
#2: Sculpt the face.
#3: Shape the back of the head.
#4: Add any necessary hair (usually once attached to the rest of the model).

I do faces in one stage (although I may retrospectively tweak small things) because you really need to see the whole thing at once to get the right result - it's nigh impossible to do eyes in one stage then finish the lower face at a later date.

I can't throw together a full and updated tutorial on face sculpting just yet, but I do go into more detail on facial structure in this old post and can add that one of the most important things to consider after knowing your subject matter is getting used to how GS cures.
It starts very soft - I begin with very crude shaping (pinch/press in cheeks, eye sockets, brow, nose, maybe lips) then bugger off and do something else for half an hour, by which point the putty is hard enough to do actual work with.
As it gets harder, the putty stops taking big shapes well, but gets better at taking fine detail, so I tend to deal with any particularly fine details about 90+ minutes in. Even as late as three hours or so, I might come back and carefully repress in certain details (or smooth out areas that are a little uneven).

While stages 1 & 3 are very minor in comparison, having the basic skull (no more than a blob with a groove for the eye sockets to sit in. I omit any bridge of the nose, as this is easier to add in #2 than remove if I find I've not left a deep enough corner for the eye socket) gives the whole thing an actual structure to work on, and finishing up the final shape of the whole head is easily left until later.

Hopefully, I can cook up something more detailed soon, once I've worked out whose head I need to sculpt next...

[Alyster Wick]

That was all very helpful, especially the part about letting the GS cure a bit before working on certain pieces. I've done that kind of thing a number of times in a different context (flattening GS then letting it cure before cutting it into strips when I've needed belts and the like) but hadn't considered it for actual sculpting. It honestly just makes too much sense.

Your older piece that you linked to was helpful as well, especially all the talk of facial ratios. I'll have some more time starting this Friday and may have to try some of these techniques.