Author Topic: Krenshar's P&M thread  (Read 909 times)

Offline krenshar

  • Interrogator
  • **
  • Posts: 84
Krenshar's P&M thread
« on: January 30, 2016, 11:22:05 PM »
It’s been four years since I found The Conclave while looking for sculpting guides, my plan back then to model up my gaming group’s Dark Heresy characters at 54mm.  And those same armatures stand now upon my desk accusingly, along with a handful of other partial sculpts I started and an assortment of Inq. minis bought from fleabay under the pretense of being reference material.  Procrastination and I are old friends.

So here begins my P&M blog, in an effort to finish some models and I hope contribute to this community that has put up with me lurking about for so long and throwing in my occasional tuppence-ha’penny worth.

Below is a list of concepts, some for individual models and others for warbands.  So far they’re all clear antagonists to the Inquisition (or meant to be), just because that was the exercise I set myself when I started.  The list will double up as an index, hyperlinking each concept as it becomes a project.

But a swift sculptor I am not.  (Heads in particular I’m finding very difficult - in fact I nearly called this thread “Faces are a B=][=tch”).  And so I invite one and all to do as you will with any concept you please.  They’re no use just sitting on a sheet of paper, after all.

So I present my list of assorted ne’er-do-wells to tax the resources of the Inquisition:

The Istvaanian’s Error:  inq-trained cult leader turned facilitator/consulting cultist

‘Eagle’ Warriors:  Tzeentchian cult elites dressed like vulture ushabti - full face beaked helms, scintillating half-cloaks, armoured mantles, taloned boots and greaves

Slaaneshi priestess:  aristo-type akin to old dark elf sorceress - sleeveless bodice with tight choker/collar connected, split skirt and knee high boots.  Accompanied by daemonhost and gladiatorial lifeguard, both ala WoC slaaneshi-knights image

The Fallen:  unarmoured astartes, probably dark angels, possibly alpha legion, 13th/26th Founding?

Lexmechanic:  investigating established worlds for over-looked data (probably STC), possible penance for straying too close to tech-heresy.  Accompanied by mostly human/aesthetic servitors, perhaps a skitarii assault veteran or electoo priest

Polymorphiend:  No actual notes, just my excuse to make a combat monster that wasn’t an arcoflagellant or combat servitor.  Somewhere between a werewolf and the Possessed from Mordheim.

Defeatist Strategos:  convinced that collaboration with xenos is only hope of countering the Tyranid threat.  Archaeoxenan and minor xenos in entourage, inc howler-headed nekulli

Tau infiltrators:  Ethereal, Fire caste veteran bodyguard and 1+ Gue’la (humans) as guides.

Ministorum Purifactors:  sisters of Sigmar matriarch-esque leader, stepping on inquisitorial toes

Church of the Emperor Resplendent: equality-minded mutant coterie, jmd-octopus psyker, towering cyclops

The Breeding Program:  psyk-breeder cult aiming to produce the next Ascendant human in the Emperor’s image.  Either psychic assassins or powerful psyker with low-psyk bodyguards.

Abominable Intelligence:  DAoT robot (‘mummified’?) leading Renfield-esque techpriest

Archaeoxenan:  rogue trader’s daughter with poss piratical minions (Orlock ganger style)

Soul slaver:  Dark Eldar dracon (or haemonculous) and minions, either kabalite or mon-keigh

Offline Lord Borak

  • Grand Lord Inquisitor
  • *****
  • Posts: 582
Re: Krenshar's P&M thread
« Reply #1 on: January 30, 2016, 11:43:51 PM »
Some very interesting concepts. The polymorph....... to be honest the first time I read that I thought about a Red Dwarf Episode.

Any chance to see your Work In Progress?

Offline krenshar

  • Interrogator
  • **
  • Posts: 84
Re: Krenshar's P&M thread
« Reply #2 on: January 30, 2016, 11:49:02 PM »
Yes indeed there is!

For in the best traditions of procrastination, before all of the above I have something else to do.
The first project I want to finish is an inquisitor and retinue.  I knew it’d be a surprise to the Conclave but there it is.  And contrary to most of what I’ve posted above, it’s a Puritan band to boot!

The inquisitor is based on a piece by Adrian Smith; the duelling pair that grace the start of the rulebook’s appendix.  In particular, I’ve gone for the much less armoured of the two.

Currently I’m working on his weapons - an ornate stubber and sword set.  Once they’re done I’ll move onto the arms and then the torso.  So far I’m working on heads separately for all my sculpts and will add in necks, collars etc. once I’m happy with the faces.  I’ve no clue yet what I’ll be doing in terms of pauldrons for this guy.  Surely there has to be at least one shoulderpad in a warband or it isn't 40k?

This mercenary is the inquisitor’s ranged support, sporting a lasgun and mono-sight.

I’m taking heavily from another image from the rulebook here.  This time from the telekinesis page (artist uncertain), with a change of sex.  With the thick padding of a flak tunic, I doubt she’ll look very feminine so I’m planning to use belts to identify her curves, while making her head clearly female despite a broken nose and a shaved scalp.
I suspect my ambition far outstrips my present skill.

The second follower is a former pit gladiator.  The sculpt is a hybrid of the Necromunda pit slave chief and WHQ’s barbarian.

Purchased by the inquisitor as part of an undercover investigation, his badly mangled left side has been repaired with augmetics.  As well as being the primary melee combatant for the warband, he’s a nod to the Thorian faction’s resurrectionist element.  His proportions are horrendous but deliberately so, as he underwent extensive vat-muscle implantation early in his career.  The state of his back and augmetic shoulder can be ignored, as I've started on a half-cape to cover the area.  Having got the idea from assassins creed 2, I'm considering including a slashed-sleeve effect to his flesh arm; the silk replaced by darker flesh of the vat-muscle, edged by raised scar tissue from the surgery.

I've a handful more followers planned for this group but for now they'll only go as far as the usual three models for Conclave events.

Oh and the large post-human in the background is waiting on these three being finished.

Offline Lord Borak

  • Grand Lord Inquisitor
  • *****
  • Posts: 582
Re: Krenshar's P&M thread
« Reply #3 on: January 31, 2016, 12:04:15 AM »
Well, this stuff is looking interesting indeed!! The Girl with the rifle is looking very nice. I love the pose already. The Gladiators legs look a little off though. His muscles and knees just don't look 'right' - is his knee too low? From the back his leg looks fine though.

Offline Alyster Wick

  • Grand Lord Inquisitor
  • *****
  • Posts: 759
  • Talk is cheap, let's scan.
Re: Krenshar's P&M thread
« Reply #4 on: January 31, 2016, 04:17:38 AM »
Welcome (back) to the Conclave!

First, hats off to you for the task you're undertaking. It's incredibly ambitious, and the various projects you've laid out all sound quirky and unique. From what you've posted it's also obvious that you have some skills and there's a lot to love so far. Bearing that in mind, I have some constructive criticism.

Maybe it's just me, but the feet look a bit small on all of these figures. You might be able to get away with number 2 (the shoes actually look fantastic apart from possibly being a bit too small, so I'd say you may just wan to leave them). The boots on the gladiator also look quite similar to the Inquisitor. There's nothing wrong with that necessarily, but from how you're describing the gladiator I feel like you could try stretching your legs a bit (metaphorically) and try something new on the gladiator. Also, I think you'll want to be mindful of the Inquisitor's waist and posterior as you build him up. Right now it looks like there's the potential for it to end up a little Gumby-esque if he doesn't get a full enough figure. I also think you need to give him more of a crotch (something looks off on the legs and I think it's the crotch, but someone with a better sense of proportions can probably tell you).

Thanks for bearing with me there. Honestly, I'm also trying my hand at sculpting more so looking at your figures is very useful training for me. Lots of the advice above may be wrong so I'm also waiting to see what the more practiced sculptors on the Clave have to say to see if their views line up with mine (I'm looking at you Marco and Borak).

I am really, really liking the second figure though. Something about her reminds me of Rey from The Force Awakens. The detail on the lasgun also look fantastic, great job! So far she's pretty identifiable as female so I don't think you need to worry too much about that. Others may have better suggestions on how to make a face look feminine, but I suspect that'll be the main challenge.

As a parting piece of advice, in the rare cases where I've sculpted substantial pieces of a miniature I generally build up almost all of it using a much cheaper modeling putty that dries in half the time of GS (and costs significantly less). The name of my brand escapes me, but my point is more that you can find MUCH cheaper stuff that'll cure far faster. Then just slop on way more than you need and cut away as-necessary. I find it easier to do as I won't get attached to any details and it allows me to get the proportions right (the hardest part by far) before sweating the small stuff. Also, don't be afraid to chop something in half and shave a few millimeters out of the middle (whether it be an elbow, knee, or waist), it'll pay off in the long run.

Finally, you clearly have an incredibly tall thing in the back of your shots. You are now obligated to share with us what awesome project you're cooking up (or which awesome project you've already detailed that it's the basis for).

Final last point because I didn't mention it earlier, all your concepts are great and I'll probably steal one (or more) of them.

Offline RobSkib

  • Illuminatus 2009
  • Grand Lord Inquisitor
  • *****
  • Posts: 841
    • Dreadquill Publishing
Re: Krenshar's P&M thread
« Reply #5 on: February 03, 2016, 02:23:47 PM »
Woo! Scratch sculpts! These are looking incredibly promising, I'm fascinated to see what happens next. So many of my projects get to this stage and then peter out. Are you planning using any official bits at all or is it completely scratch-built?
An Inquisitor walks into a bar - he rolls D100 to see if he hits it.
                                     +++++++
Gallery of my Inquisitor models here.

Offline MarcoSkoll

  • Arch Data-Archivist
  • Administrator
  • Grand Lord Inquisitor
  • *****
  • Posts: 4590
  • Time for some thrilling heroics.
Re: Krenshar's P&M thread
« Reply #6 on: February 03, 2016, 05:36:41 PM »
Lots of the advice above may be wrong so I'm also waiting to see what the more practiced sculptors on the Clave have to say to see if their views line up with mine (I'm looking at you Marco and Borak).
I'd say the pelvis on both the Inquisitor and Gladiator needs a little work.

My approach to a model starts with a Y-shaped armature (although more of a tuning fork shape than the letter looks like in this font), and the very first putty stage is putting a simplified, but correctly proportioned ribcage and pelvis on that. Aside from the skull, these are the only real cases where the skeleton has significant volume and shape, so it's good to get them right from the very start.

For both of them, their pelvises seem to be a little small, and thus lacking some of their external shape (such as the iliac ridge or pubic bone). By extension, this seems to be giving the Inquisitor a bit of a wasp waist.

As far as the feet, I'd probably agree. Feet are usually a little over one "head" long (using the normal artist's approach of using the size of the head as a measurement), although exactly what proportions are correct* depend on exactly what style you're going for (GW's heroic style makes the human figure usually closer to five or six heads high, rather than the reality of more like seven or eight).

*Natural variation in the proportion isn't really huge. While I've got moderately small feet compared to my height, wearing UK size 9.5 (10.5 US/44 EU) compared to a 187cm (6' 2") height, it's only about a centimetre shorter than the average, so we're talking fractions of a millimetre at this scale.

You might also want to check exactly how the feet line up. The ankle and heel sit inside the knee (when looking from the front) if the lower leg isn't twisting, and the ridge of the foot connects with the inside of the ankle, with the feet usually facing slightly out in a normal standing pose. This looks most obvious on the Inquisitor, whose right foot looks a lot like it's tipped over, like he's walking on the inside edge of his foot.

Quote
Others may have better suggestions on how to make a face look feminine, but I suspect that'll be the main challenge.
It depends on exactly what ethnicity you're going for, but it generally calls for more subtle facial features - a less pronounced brow, a softer curve to the jaw line, a smaller nose, narrower lips.

Quote
As a parting piece of advice, in the rare cases where I've sculpted substantial pieces of a miniature I generally build up almost all of it using a much cheaper modeling putty that dries in half the time of GS (and costs significantly less).
Generally, I don't tend to fuss. GS can be set off pretty fast if you want (put it over a warm lamp*) and, if bought at sensible prices, doing a 54mm model out of solid GS still represents no more than about £1 worth. Kind of trivial when that cost represents is hours of work.

*But if you do spot a mistake you want to tweak before it's hardened, let it cool first! Curing green stuff can get pretty soft when it's hot.
S.Sgt Silva Birgen: "Good evening, we're here from the Adeptus Defenestratus."
Captain L. Rollin: "Nonsense. Never heard of it."
Birgen: "Pick a window. I'll demonstrate".

GW's =I= articles

Offline krenshar

  • Interrogator
  • **
  • Posts: 84
Re: Krenshar's P&M thread
« Reply #7 on: February 06, 2016, 05:35:58 PM »
Thank you all for your feedback.  While I've not had time this week to get any more sculpting in, each model now has a list of tweaks and reminders for when I get back to them (which is tomorrow with a bit of luck).

The inquisitor is deliberately wasp-waisted at present - the plan is that he'll wear a sash and I wanted to ensure there was depth enough available to work with.  His entire torso is under sized for now, while I decide how i want to finish the coat.  Primary inspiration is the right hand character from this piece by Adrian Smith.

While I intended to stick with GW heroic proportions, I've gravitated to around 6.5 heads.  The feet were sculpted early on and have wound up exactly one head long but look exceedingly dainty on those legs.  Thanks for pointing out the foot-knee misalignment, Marco - I couldn't see where I was going wrong.  The boots will be detailed almost exactly as the image and I hope different enough from the gladiator once finished.

Here is the inspiration art behind the bodyguard.

(I can't find a signature on the image - guessing it's been cropped off by the rulebook's layout.  Is anyone able to enlighten me?  My instinctive reaction is that it's either Adrian Smith again or possibly Alex Boyd.)
She's based on the rearmost figure and may eventually be partnered by the nearer grunt too.  My struggle with faces continues and her mono-sight will likely end up covering whichever eye I am least happy with.  The lasgun's barrel broke away while I was adding the hood-shape at the muzzle end, so is now pinned and the poly cement curing.  It's a real disadvantage of scratch-building the weapons.  Another time I may extend the rod into the body and set it in with greenstuff.

Quote
Are you planning on using any official bits at all or is it completely scratch-built?
So far everything is made from scratch and likely will continue to be; despite breaking weapons and fiddly small bits of plasticard, I'm loathe to cut up OOP models unless I absolutely have to.  The other aspect is that should I later look at casting models, my only concern will be GW-specific iconography.  With the nominal return of specialist games on the horizon, I'm hesitant to recycle the work of others until we see what GW are planning.

Quote
I generally build up almost all of it using a much cheaper modeling putty that dries in half the time of GS (and costs significantly less). The name of my brand escapes me, but my point is more that you can find MUCH cheaper stuff that'll cure far faster.
Presently I'm paying just over £8 for 3' of greenstuff and that's lasting pretty well.  I've experimented briefly with yellow-grey milliput and it got quite messy.  I know procreate is very popular these days so I may give that a go as my greenstuff reserves run low.  If you can recall the brand you use, Alyster Wick then 'll look into that too.  Currently I bung my sculpts into the oven around 40Celsius and they cure in an hour while I do other things.

The gladiator's legs are definitely off, as Lord Borak points out.  I'm trying to make the character look 'wrong' on account of his surgically-added muscle mass without it looking like poor sculpting.  I've cut his knees away I think five times now but I'm yet to find that happy medium.  His calves have ended up excessively narrow relative to his thighs and I think that's part of the problem.  His pelvis remains malformed in readiness for more detail.  The cloth draping his right leg is the base layer for some scaled armour and there's going to be a chainmail loincloth too.  Holding these up will be a wide belt with a large winged-skull buckle; currently I'm sculpting this separately onto 1mm thick plasticard for stability.  So the hollow at his navel is there in case I have to sink that 1mm backing plate into the model too.
Not that I can claim all of the issues to be pre-meditated.  I had to cut the gladiator in half and remove 5mm from his torso when I realised it had grown monstrously over-stretched.  His feet have been chopped off a few times as well.  They're the right length but too flat now I examine them again and the ball of his left foot needs to be nearer the toes I think.

Ah well, back to the chopping board!  Photos to come in the next couple of days.