Author Topic: Psycannon vs MIU liked psycannon  (Read 4138 times)

Offline sergeis64

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Psycannon vs MIU liked psycannon
« on: October 04, 2009, 02:10:30 AM »
Are the stats for MIU linked , shoulder mounted psycannon similar to regular psycannon, or are more like a pistol stats?
Thanks, SMS

Offline MarcoSkoll

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Re: Psycannon vs MIU liked psycannon
« Reply #1 on: October 04, 2009, 02:30:04 AM »
Strictly, the same as MIU rules + Psycannon rules.

However, a considerable chunk of members agree that basic weapons are too large to really be perched on a shoulder, particularly something as violent as bolt weapons, and would use pistol rules instead.

Of course, this is sidestepping the question of "Why a psycannon, rather than a conventional bolter?". The things and their ammo are rarer than rocking horse poo, even for the Ordo Malleus - yet every second daemonhunter appears to have one.
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Offline GhouraAgur

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Re: Psycannon vs MIU liked psycannon
« Reply #2 on: October 04, 2009, 04:54:32 AM »
.... The things and their ammo are rarer than rocking horse poo, even for the Ordo Malleus - yet every second daemonhunter appears to have one.

I think the trouble might come from 40k, where, in a large scale battle in which a great many daemons will be prancing about, it makes a wee bit of sense to pull out the psycannons.  In inquisitor though, where oft the most deamonic thing around is a daemonhost (and there's very few of them) it'd really be, I think the most daemonhunting of deamonhunters that would have one.  Nevermind that many members of the Ordo Mallus aren't all that preoccupied with hunting down deamons.

However, a considerable chunk of members agree that basic weapons are too large to really be perched on a shoulder

I think restrictions for shoulder mounts ought to be based on a weapons weight, rather than it's class.

That being said, why are MIUs only on shoulders?  Surely one could imagine some Techpriest with a harness, and having a machinegun held over his head? 

Offline MarcoSkoll

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Re: Psycannon vs MIU liked psycannon
« Reply #3 on: October 04, 2009, 10:28:43 AM »
I think restrictions for shoulder mounts ought to be based on a weapons weight, rather than its class.
Size is an important issue too. Either way, pistols are usually of a reasonable size and weight - basic weapons generally are somewhat impractical. Not to say it's impossible, but it is improbable.
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Offline Tullio

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Re: Psycannon vs MIU liked psycannon
« Reply #4 on: October 04, 2009, 11:59:42 AM »
Quote
That being said, why are MIUs only on shoulders?  Surely one could imagine some Techpriest with a harness, and having a machinegun held over his head?

Amen, brother. I think we can blame Alien vs Predator for this trend

Tullio

Offline sergeis64

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Re: Psycannon vs MIU liked psycannon
« Reply #5 on: October 04, 2009, 03:53:26 PM »
Thanks, guys!

Offline GhouraAgur

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Re: Psycannon vs MIU liked psycannon
« Reply #6 on: October 04, 2009, 04:05:57 PM »
I think restrictions for shoulder mounts ought to be based on a weapons weight, rather than its class.
Size is an important issue too. Either way, pistols are usually of a reasonable size and weight - basic weapons generally are somewhat impractical. Not to say it's impossible, but it is improbable.

Size is a funny sort of issue, what with digi-weapons thrown in the mix.  Sure, they're probably insanely expensive and rare, but when you can fit a pistol into a ring, you could probably get some Tech-priest of the Micro-Omnisiah to cram a bigger gun into a pistol sized rig.
But I agree with you, really.  A weight 60 plasma blaster?  That basic weapon is heavier than a heavy stubber!  But things like bola launchers, and neural shredders?  Much too flavorful, methinks, to simply lug around with your hands.

But hey!  The skitarri are mind linked to their weapons, even those that they carry with their hands! (And aren't, y'know, there instead of hands...)  Surely there's some benefit to knowing exactly how many bullets are left in the clip, or just how close the barrel is to melting (or the plasma gun is to overheating!)

Offline precinctomega

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Re: Psycannon vs MIU liked psycannon
« Reply #7 on: October 04, 2009, 06:13:01 PM »
Quote
how many bullets are left in the clip

If I don't do it for him, MarcoSkoll will be along shortly to point out that a clip and a magazine are not the same thing and that you mean magazine in this case.

R.

Offline DapperAnarchist

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Re: Psycannon vs MIU liked psycannon
« Reply #8 on: October 04, 2009, 07:26:34 PM »
Off topic, but - is there any universal word for the ammunition loaded into a weapon? I mean, for some guns its a clip (M1 Garand, right?), for most its a magazine, I remember Marco mentioned a "slide gun" at one point, Heavy Stubbers and Bolters and various other weapons take belts, Lasweapons of all kinds take Powerpacks, Plasma and Flamer (and I think I've come across it in Melta as well) use flasks or tanks... And how would one refer to an entirely internal system, like a revolver or most pump action shotguns?
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Offline MarcoSkoll

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Re: Psycannon vs MIU liked psycannon
« Reply #9 on: October 04, 2009, 08:19:30 PM »
If I don't do it for him, MarcoSkoll will be along shortly to point out that a clip and a magazine are not the same thing and that you mean magazine in this case.
I was going to resist the urge to do that this time, actually.

Off topic, but - is there any universal word for the ammunition loaded into a weapon?
For Inquisitor, the word reload works well: "Stubber and two reloads". Wouldn't be too hasty to use it in real life though, you might get some odd looks.

Quote
And how would one refer to an entirely internal system, like a revolver or most pump action shotguns?
Revolvers have a cylinder, which is often loaded by virtue of "moon clips", which hold together typically 2, 3 or 6 rounds at a time.
Shotguns have "tubular magazines", where shells are stacked end to end. A magazine is still a magazine, even if it isn't removable. Strictly, the M1 Garand has an internal magazine - it's just unusual in that the clip it's loaded with is inserted into the magazine as well...

... and somewhat annoying in that is ejected after the last round is fired, making a distinct metallic ting on hitting the floor, something that cost a few lives in WWII.
Firstly, the Nazis used it as an indicator that the US soldier was out of ammo. Then the Americans got smart, and kept a few empty clips around - they'd drop one, then shoot the head of whichever poor bugger popped up because they thought they were out of ammo.
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Captain L. Rollin: "Nonsense. Never heard of it."
Birgen: "Pick a window. I'll demonstrate".

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Offline Inquisitor Cade

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Re: Psycannon vs MIU liked psycannon
« Reply #10 on: October 05, 2009, 01:29:25 PM »
While we are on the 'ask Marco Skoll about guns' detour I have a question of my own. I'm a bit confused about the terminology relating to rounds. Is a bullet the same as a round or do either imply the cartridge or just the missile part. Is cartridge the right word for the brass or do these terms only apply once they are spent?
*Insert token witticism*

Offline MarcoSkoll

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Re: Psycannon vs MIU liked psycannon
« Reply #11 on: October 05, 2009, 04:07:44 PM »
While we are on the 'ask Marco Skoll about guns' detour I have a question of my own.
In strict terms...

- Bullet is just the projectile. More strictly, only certain projectiles, as shotgun shot, musket balls, etc. wouldn't be referred to as bullets.
- Round and cartridge are strictly the terms for the whole thing, bullet, case, powder/propellant, primer and all. So taking "send some rounds downrange" literally, you'd probably have lobbed them.
- "Brass" is slang for the case. "Spent brass" would obviously refer to the case of a fired round.

These are of course, sometimes mixed up a bit, even by people in the profession. Bullet and round are often used in place of one another, and cartridge can sometimes be simply the case - but usually qualified by "empty cartridge".
S.Sgt Silva Birgen: "Good evening, we're here from the Adeptus Defenestratus."
Captain L. Rollin: "Nonsense. Never heard of it."
Birgen: "Pick a window. I'll demonstrate".

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Offline sergeis64

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Re: Psycannon vs MIU liked psycannon
« Reply #12 on: October 08, 2009, 12:09:54 AM »
Hmm, here is my take on this...
Revolvers- can have a quickload clip (?)- essentially a gizmo that holds all your rounds. After emptying all the rounds in a rev drum- flip it out and empty all used brass. Then produce the quickload holder, shove the new rounds in the drum, release the ammo from holder, push back drum- all set. These are used often by cops, but nowadays most of PDs are switching to standard 9mm- Glocks.
Clip is usually an internal, partially external ammo holder that you load in a pistol or some rifles- M1, SKS. M1 has a 8(?) round clip that you push down with thumb, while holding breach with other fingers- "Garand thumb" is a bit painful.
When clip is done it pops with clinking sound- breach stays open. SKS has a strip clip- that you push in the internal magazine, and then while holding down rounds yank out the strip.
Magazine is usually completely external ammo holder that you click in place- internal spring will push all the ammo in the breach while firing. When done, just swap the mag...
Something like that...

Offline precinctomega

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Re: Psycannon vs MIU liked psycannon
« Reply #13 on: October 08, 2009, 02:40:06 PM »
Marco is right.  Serge is wrong.  A clip is just that: a clip that holds a number of rounds together in order to make loading the magazine - internal or external - faster.

Professionals often refer to rounds rather than bullets, even though they understand the distinction, because the use of the word "bullet" is usually heard by the ignorant referring to rounds.  As a result, the term is tarnished by association.  A better word would be "projectile", if one wanted to sound like an expert without using the word "bullet".

Most multipl-shot weapons have a magazine where they hold their ammunition immediately prior to percussion.  Revolvers are the exception, as they have a cylinder that contains a number of individual chambers.  The distinction is important because the chamber exists in non-revolver kinetic weapons as well, but there is only one.  So a cylinder contains many chambers, whilst a weapon with a magazine has only one.

I don't know, but I assume that those multi-shot grenade launchers also have a cylinder and chambers, rather than a magazine.

Going back to the OP, shoulder-mounted weapons were, of course, popularized by Inquisitor Covenant, possibly inspired by the original Predator movies.  The influence of AvP is unlikely, as that was released some time after Inquisitor.

R.

Offline MarcoSkoll

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Re: Psycannon vs MIU liked psycannon
« Reply #14 on: October 08, 2009, 04:41:07 PM »
I don't know, but I assume that those multi-shot grenade launchers also have a cylinder and chambers, rather than a magazine.
Depends on the grenade launcher. The Mk19 is belt fed; the QLZ-87 and QLZ-87B are fed from drum magazines, the pump action China Lake Grenade Launcher is fed from a tubular magazine...

But things like the Milkor M32 and the MM-1 are essentially large revolvers. Only real difference is that the chambers are driven by a spring, rather than the pull of the trigger. You do need to remember to wind them up during the loading though.
S.Sgt Silva Birgen: "Good evening, we're here from the Adeptus Defenestratus."
Captain L. Rollin: "Nonsense. Never heard of it."
Birgen: "Pick a window. I'll demonstrate".

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