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Rectifying the disappointing lack of heresy

Started by Cortez, April 02, 2016, 07:10:32 PM

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Cortez

One of the things I've noticed at some of the recent Conclave events is the relative lack of 'villainous' characters lately. While there are a few characters who are decidedly left field (such as Inquisitor Cortez), there seem to be far fewer true minions of Chaos around than there used to be (I can recall one game several years ago in which Cortez was the least radical on the tabletop). So in an attempt to rectify this and inspired by Van Helser's new Xanthite Sourcebook, I've decided to design a couple of extremely radical fallen Inquisitors.

+++ Background request received +++
+++ Access Granted +++
+++ Isabella von Ravensberg, Daniel von Ravensberg +++
+++ Status: Excommunicatis Extremis+++

++++++++++

Name: Isabella von Ravensberg.
Sex: Female
Age: 56
Parentage: Artur von Ravensberg, Hereditary Governor Ravensberg III, Carthax sector; Julia Maria           Carstein.
Known Siblings: Antony von Ravensberg (age 60), Daniel von Ravensberg (age 54)

++++++++++

Name: Daniel von Ravensberg.
Sex: Male
Age: 54
Parentage: Artur von Ravensberg, Hereditary Governor Ravensberg III, Carthax sector; Julia Maria           Carstein.
Known Siblings: Antony von Ravensberg (age 60), Isabella von Ravensberg (age56)

++++++++++

Isabella and Daniel von Ravensberg are siblings recruited into the retinue of Inquisitor Gunther Ruhrenheim approx. 38 years ago. As I am sure you are aware Gunther Ruhrenheim was long suspected of being not only a Xanthite, but of having distinctly Horusian tendencies. The posthumous investigation into the deceased Inquisitor's affairs, following his execution at the hands of Inquisitor Cortez, six years ago, has only served to prove these suspicions correct and further suggests that the Inquisitor Ruhrenheim had indeed crossed the line into heresy; thus validating Inquisitor Cortez's otherwise seemingly precipitous action (n.b. I myself am unconvinced of some of the proofs provided by Inquisitor Cortez, whose own methodology and allegiances I find to be deeply suspicious).

Regardless of Inquisitor Ruhrenheim's true guilt or innocence of these charges certain facts about his apprentices are known:
From the data recovered from Inquisitor Ruhrenheims laboratory it is clear that he was indeed a Xanthite and that as his apprentice Acolyte Isabella was subjected to forced Daemonic possession and subsequent exorcism, in order to make the Acolyte into a more effective tool. In the words of the Inquisitor:

   'Like a glove that once stretched to a larger hand, will never go back to its original size, this procedure serves to stretch the human soul in a similar fashion...' 
(Diary extract. Inquisitor Ruhrenheims personal log)

Although the exorcism appears to have been performed successfully, the effects on Isabella von Ravensberg by her possession by a Slaaneshi Daemonette were profound. Various eyewitness report that she became both more beautiful, but also more alien and slightly repellent as she was reported to make people feel uncomfortable as if there was something wrong and unnatural. These descriptions are not dissimilar to the kind of responses observed when dealing with psychic nulls or pariahs, although it is clear that she was anything but a psychic null. It is reported that only her brother Daniel could stand to be near her for long.

It is less clear what procedures, if any, were carried out on Daniel von Ravensberg. There are no records that suggest that the same possession and exorcism technique was carried out on the younger of the two siblings, however images taken of the Acolyte in the years immediately prior to Ruhrenheim's execution show him to be much gaunter and looking almost as if he had been prematurely aged.

Following the raid upon Inquisitor Ruhrenheims laboratory in the Scarra system and his subsequent execution, the two Acolytes were captured and interrogated regarding their involvement and knowledge of their master's affairs aboard Inquisitor Cortez's starship and base of operations 'Profit Motive' (registered to Nataliia von Lucia, Rogue Trader #47368). While been transferred to more secure holding facilities for further investigation into the affair, the two acolytes were able to escape by overpowering their escort and stealing the Adeptus Arbites Prisoner Transport in the process. It should be noted that several senior members within the Adeptus Arbites were 'fired' for this gross dereliction of duty. (n.b. Although Inquisitor Cortez claims she had nothing to do with this escape, I find it hard to believe that she didn't make sure the acolytes were secure before handing them over to the Arbites for transport. I have long suspected her of Istvaanian tendancies, but letting such potentially dangerous individuals escape is surely treason, no matter the underlying motive).

What happened next is unclear, however the siblings, despite a sizable manhunt, in which I myself took part, were clearly able to escape the Scarra system through unknown means, for five years later they reappeared on Blaudu IV operating out of one of Inquisitor Ruhrenheims old facilities. Further attempts to apprehend them were undertaken by my agents, with little success; however it was apparent that the two apprentices had not only embraced their deceased master's philosophy but had indeed crossed the line in their bid to survive. Both siblings were now observed to be wielding Daemon weapons and were implicated, from records found amidst the partially destroyed facility, in the formation of no fewer than three Slaaneshi pleasure cults in neighbouring systems. Equally damning is the enhanced images of the book held and used by Isabella von Ravensberg during the assault on their facility. Digital reconstruction suggests that this book is a copy of the forbidden text known only as the Tome of Shadows. This book is believed to contain forbidden knowledge regarding the Horus Heresy and the Sorcerous Arts and is often attributed to having been written by Magnus the Red, Primarch of the Thousand Suns Chapter or his Chief Sorcerer Ahriman. It should also be noted that the book is supposed to be sealed within the Black Archives of Carthaxian Conclave and no copies are supposed to exist. I have requested further investigation into this grievous breach of security, but so far have been denied access to the vaults.

Copies of all relevant documentation and images will be forwarded to you shortly. I hope that you have better success in dealing with these traitors that I have.

By the Emperors Will,

Inquisitor Stephen Yates

Stats and whatnot to follow soon :)

Alyster Wick

They sounds like a lot of fun! There does seem to be a dearth of completely chaotic warbands out there, so cheers on creating these two. I eagerly await stats and models :)

Cortez

#2
So these are some of my initial thoughts on stats for the two traitorous siblings. They're probably going to be quite powerful vs the Conclave standard as I kind of intend them to be mostly on their own and more along the lines of 'boss' characters for everyone else to oppose.

The characters will use rules from Ruaridh Dall's artcles The Sanctioning Brand http://www.darkmagenta.net/articles/The%20Sanctioning%20Brand.pdf and The Fickle Warp http://www.darkmagenta.net/articles/The%20Fickle%20Warp.pdf as well as the new Xanthite sourcebook.

Isabella von Ravensberg.

Isabella's possession and subsequent exorcism has altered her considerably from her previous self. Since the possession she has become far lither and more agile than any normal human, with almost superhuman lvl reflexes, although physically she has been left somewhat frailer and weaker than before. Although extremely appealing and seductive in form, there is also something off-putting and inhuman about her that makes people shy away from her presence.

WS 71
BS 62
S 47
T 49
I 81
Wp 88
Sg 84
Nv 53
Ld 55

SS 10
Cnc 25
Spd 5

Special rules and abilities:

Exorcised host. Sorcerous Knowledge. Psyniscience. Haemovoric Tendency. Mind Flux. Acrobatic. Ambidextrous. Dodge. Fast Draw. First Strike.

Psychic Abilities:

Biomancy - Storm of Lightning, Blood Boil. Slaaneshi - Dark Bliss, Phantasm

Equipment:

Tome of Shadows: Some claim that this maleveloent and forbidden book was written by Magnus the Red, Primarch of the Thousand Suns, others claim that it was written merely by his Chief Sorcerer Ahriman, others still claim that it's origins cannot be traced back nearly so far and it is merely the work of lesser Sorcerers. Regardless of the truth of it's foul origins, what is certain is that contained within it's pages is the vast knowledge of sorcery, the workings of chaos and that the post heresy symbol of the Thousand Suns is emblazoned upon it's cover. It is said that the Tomes legendary promise of power is such that even knowing of the books existence would be considered grounds for suspicion for all but the most trusted of Inquisitors and even these strongest of wills would struggle to resist it's terrible lure and endless temptations should they actually pick it up, let alone read it's forbidden contents.

The Tome of Shadows allows the user to use Sorcery (as described in The Fickle Warp). The sorcerous knowledge it contains grants the user +20 sagacity and allows the reader to use any of the psychic powers in the main rulebook, the 2004 Inquisitor Annual or in fact any other psychic powers you can find or make up, however it will warp the users body in strange ways (see the Warp malignacies section of The Fickle Warp) if used repeatedly (at GM's discretion if picked up in game). To use the book requires two actions, one to read the book, the second to cast the psychic power/spell, this casting attempt is made using the users Sagacity and not their Willpower. The ability can be nullified in the usual way. The book does grant the user a certain amount of protection while using it and so the user will only suffer 1/2 the penalty for failing the psychic test/risky action while attempting to use the book. Following use of the book the user must pass a WP test or be possessed by the book for the remainder of their actions (in a similar manner to Daemon weapons who exceed their owners Willpower), anyone who is not Isabella von Ravensberg must also take this test at the start of each turn while they are holding it. Both opening the book to read it and casting the spell are considered risky actions.

The Tome of Shadows is considered to be a Daemon possesed item with Wp 97. In addition to it's other effects it grants, when used by Isabella von Ravensberg, the Fateweaver Daemon weapon ability.

Daemon Eviscerator: Sch'all'tch. (Wp 87)

Neuron Render, Soporific Musk.

2x Laspistols (1 reload each), Conversion Field


I'm not 100% happy with this character when re-reading it this morning. My original concept has her as a follower of Slaanesh (started when I began to create the model for her years ago). Yet as the back story has panned out, especially regarding the Tome of Shadows, I'm starting to think that she has more of a Tzeentch feel. What do people think? Does a Slaaneshi following ex-Inquisitor, wielding a Tzeentchian sorcerous Tome make sense?

I'm also not sure about her other equipment. She's quite fragile and not wearing much (if any) armour, which is why I considered the Conversion field to add an element of extra protection. However would it be better to force her to rely upon the Tome of Shadows by using suitable sorcery (i.e. psychic shields/wards etc.).

Van Helser

Why not go down the Tzeentch route with the possession too? It's not that much of a stretch for a daemon of Tzeentch to use allure as a way to gain the trust of an individual to put to use in one of its schemes.

Having no physical protection could be fun in game terms - she would want to keep out of harm's way, and let others put themselves in danger on her behalf. Psychic/sorcerous protection would be available for her if she gets caught out.

Ruaridh

Cortez

I'm definitely leaning more towards the Tzeentch side at the moment for Isabella. So I think I'll rewrite the relevant portions of the backstory to a Tzeentchian rather than Slaaneshian bent.

With that in mind I'm going to remove the conversion field, relying on her sorcery/psychic abilities seems more fitting for the character than tecnology anyway. I think I'll also replace the Slaaneshi psychic powers with some Tzeentch ones. Babel Curse, Protean form and Flicker seem appropriate.

I'm also going to change the Daemon Eviscerator to being made from a generic Daemonic entity rather than from a specific God. The 1000 eyes ability will make for an interesting (and easy) sculpting job and I think I'll also give it the Weightless characteristic (both from the Xanthite sourcebook), which will also fit with the way the model is effortlessly carrying it around in one hand!

Daniel von Ravensberg

It is unknown whether Daniel von Ravensberg underwent the same possession and exorcism ritual as his sister. However his years in Gunther Ruhrenheim's service left him scarred and twisted and caused him to begin hiding his features under a mask and cowled robe. In the years since his escape from Inquisitor Cortez's purge of their activities he has also taken to wearing a suit of power armour emblazened with symbols of the dark Chaos Gods. Where he acquired this suit is unknown, although it is suspected that it may have belonged to the renowned heretic and Chaos Mgos Drynack the Despoiler who plagued  the outer regions of the Carthax Sector approximately a century ago. Research shows that Gunther Ruhrenheim as a young acolyte was part of the team that took down the notorious Magos. However the suit of power armour is not the traitorous former acolyte's most distinguishing feature when he has been observed since his escape six years ago. Recent eyewitness reports state that the former acolyte is also carrying 'an enormous sword that seemed to twist and defy logic with writhing faces and flames without heat emanating from it'. These same survivors (although driven mad by the encounter, the mind scan reveals that they are telling the truth as they saw it) report that the Sword appeared to have a great deal of control and influence over Daniel von Ravensberg and that it may have taken control of him on several occasions. From this it can be inferred that it may well be a greater Daemonic entity (presumably of Tzeentch) bound within the blade that frequently exceeds Daniel von Ravensberg's ability to control it. However it also seems that for the most part the Daemonic entity is content to work with the two traitors rather than attempting to free itself from it's bondage.

WS 67
BS 62
S 61 (73)
T 64
I 67
Wp 85
Sg 68
Nv 72
Ld 65

SS 13
Cnc 32
Spd 4

Special Rules and Abilities:

Fearsome

Equipment:

Power Armour, Bolt Pistol (1x reload)

Daemon Sword: Tzchalyrz (Wp 98)

Flight, Gnawing, Deceptive, Hex.

This Daemon Sword contains either a powerful Daemon prince or maybe even a Greater Daemon of Tzeentch. Where the von Ravensbergs got such a weapon is unclear, however it seems unlikely that they have the knowledge or skill to manage the feat of binding such a powerful entity into a sword. Tzchalyrz seems to be content to work with the von Ravensberg siblings and so will never seek to directly harm either of them (anyone else is fair game), however like any servant of Tzeentch it is tricky and often has it's own agenda.


I've tried to make Daniel von Ravensberg feel different from his sister by making him into a straightforward brutish type character. I decided to make the Daemon sword his primary feature, by making it both quite powerful and stronger than it's wielder. This should add some spice to an otherwise fairly basic character although I've given Daniel a high willpower of 85, as I don't want him to be failing the test every turn, although I'm wondering if it's a bit too high and whether or not I should drop it down to ~80.

MarcoSkoll

#5
Quote from: Cortez on April 03, 2016, 11:06:13 PMI've given Daniel a high willpower of 85, as I don't want him to be failing the test every turn, although I'm wondering if it's a bit too high and whether or not I should drop it down to ~80.
I think the daemon weapon rules perhaps lack a little finesse, with a high Wp sword always quickly possessing its character, and a high Wp character always being (fairly) safe. The only common cause of Wp loss is failing psychic powers, so a non-psychic (or Wyrd) wielder will almost never suffer possession. (Well, there are also drugs, but I can't actually recall ever having seen them used in combination with a daemon weapon!)

Under the current rules, even Wp 85 would imply that a character (with a sword of even just Wp 86) spends about 4 hours a day being possessed, which seems... a little excessive.

I've been thinking about it for IRE, and I think the mechanic needs some polishing. Thinking back to the 2010 Spring Conclave, I recall PrecinctOmega making Inquisitor Cortez test for possession while she was stunned, which sounds to me like the core of a good idea.

If the rules instead assumed that, generally, a reasonably strong willed character could keep the influence at bay, and instead allowed possession to take place at times when a character's resistance was weaker.

Possibly something like this:
- Characters always test for daemon weapon possession, regardless of relative Willpower, but there's no auto-fail (so there's no need to roll if their modified Wp is over 100).
- Normally, the test would be at something like +30 or +40 (possibly based on the strength of the bindings on the sword?). However, when weaker or distracted, such as when stunned or pinned*, after suffering Perils of the Warp, or if holding a daemon weapon they are unfamiliar with, this bonus would be ignored.
- The test could then be further modified by the power of the daemon within - a greater entity would be a penalty, but a lesser beast might even be a bonus. (Possibly, the penalty/bonus could be the difference between the Willpowers of the weapon and wielder).

* Or even passed out, if the GM thinks a daemon-possessed character regaining consciousness would be interesting for the game.

That would make wielding a powerful daemon weapon possible (without needing to spend the entire game playing Tubular Bells, waving a censer about and hosing the table down with holy water, anyway), but risky.
S.Sgt Silva Birgen: "Good evening, we're here from the Adeptus Defenestratus."
Captain L. Rollin: "Nonsense. Never heard of it."
Birgen: "Pick a window. I'll demonstrate".

GW's =I= articles

Cortez

Yeah the Daemon weapon possession definitely needs work. I think that's why most people usually go for the wielder having 1-2 points of Wp more than the weapon (so they only test after psychic failure etc.). I remember that game with Precinctomega, although I actually got the impression that he just didn't like Daemon swords as I seem to recall the rules he used making it virtually impossible for Cortez to recover.

I do like the idea of being forced to test if distracted i.e. stunned/unconcious/injured and I like the idea of constantly having to keep the weapon under control. I might try out those rules suggestions this weekend, it would certainly create an interesting potential drawback for someone like Cortez who rarely uses her psychic powers in practice and so rarely has to test vs possession.

MarcoSkoll

Quote from: Cortez on April 05, 2016, 06:35:24 PMI remember that game with Precinctomega, although I actually got the impression that he just didn't like Daemon swords as I seem to recall the rules he used making it virtually impossible for Cortez to recover.
Well, I know I at the time thought that his handling of it was rather extreme (and, if I am honest, detracted from the game), but the core idea of daemon weapons exploiting their owner's moments of weakness is a lot more interesting than the current, rather binary, mechanic.

As you say, it's pretty much guaranteed that the daemon has a couple of points less Wp than the wielder, which is mechanically boring.

A lot of the interesting rules that Ruaridh has written for the Xanthite book are unlikely to ever see the table because of that "greater entity" restriction; as that seems to call for at least Wp 90+, almost no character could possibly wield one under the current rules without quickly becoming possessed.
(The only character I have who can beat that is Princeps Rogen, whose draft character sheet makes her Wp 96, and she's not exactly a normal player character anyway).
S.Sgt Silva Birgen: "Good evening, we're here from the Adeptus Defenestratus."
Captain L. Rollin: "Nonsense. Never heard of it."
Birgen: "Pick a window. I'll demonstrate".

GW's =I= articles

Cortez

Quote from: MarcoSkoll on April 05, 2016, 07:51:25 PM

A lot of the interesting rules that Ruaridh has written for the Xanthite book are unlikely to ever see the table because of that "greater entity" restriction; as that seems to call for at least Wp 90+, almost no character could possibly wield one under the current rules without quickly becoming possessed.
(The only character I have who can beat that is Princeps Rogen, whose draft character sheet makes her Wp 96, and she's not exactly a normal player character anyway).

It'll be interesting to see how well Daniel (I must think of a better name) von Ravensberg actually plays in practice using the vanilla rules. Even with Wp 85 (which is higher than I really want to make him), he's still likely to spend at least one turn per game being controlled by the Daemonsword, which may be interesting, or may just be annoying. I think it'll be less of a problem for him, as he's chaos aligned anyway, than it would be for a normal Xanthite Inquisitor as he would probably have a similar agenda to the Entity (although that would be up to the GM to decide).

Cortez

So I gave these characters a go at the IGT earlier today.

I felt Isabella worked well as a character with some useful abilities and the Tome of Shadows was an interesting tool with it's ability to use any of the psychic powers in the book. This actually meant that there was never a circumstance in which I couldn't use the book's sorcerous powers to do something interesting (such as using machine empathy on the brain vat I needed to reactivate). I think I did forget to roll for possession by the book on a couple of occasions though.

Daniel however needs some work (and not just to think of a better name for him). I envisaged him as a sort of tank character, however even with the power armour he wasn't really tough enough to survive an encounter with Gav's Kommissork and he ended up out of action in both games (ok the second time was somewhat unlucky as taking a Krak grenade to the head would kill just about every character in the game, I'm not sure even a vanilla rules Space Marine would have survived). The Daemon Sword proved a bit disappointing, as I didn't really get the chance to use it and while it did take control of Daniel for one turn the entity didn't actually get chance to do anything fun.

MarcoSkoll

Quote from: Cortez on April 09, 2016, 10:28:30 PMDaniel however needs some work (and not just to think of a better name for him).
I'd suggest looking at Behind the Name, which lists related names. Foreign, rare or archaic forms are often quite useful for WH40K:

http://www.behindthename.com/name/daniel

QuoteI envisaged him as a sort of tank character, however even with the power armour he wasn't really tough enough to survive an encounter with Gav's Kommissork and he ended up out of action in both games.
"Tanks" are a little hard to pull off in the Inquisitor rules. There's things I like about the damage system, but it has its oddities (like the four slaps rule) and I'm having to resist gutting large parts of the injury system for IRE.

To get something of a tank effect for Jax Lynn, I had to layer on rules that let her test against stunning and reduce speed penalties. The full extent of her bonuses would definitely be excessive for a power armoured character (as Jax is supposed to be tough without armour, due to the active and passive effects of her regeneration - canonically, when she can be convinced to wear armour, she's practically invulnerable to small arms), but there's possibly a starting point somewhere in there.
S.Sgt Silva Birgen: "Good evening, we're here from the Adeptus Defenestratus."
Captain L. Rollin: "Nonsense. Never heard of it."
Birgen: "Pick a window. I'll demonstrate".

GW's =I= articles

Raghnall

Alright, this is really just taking Marco's idea for Daemon Weapons, and developing it. The aim is to create a system where a reasonably strong willed character can wield a very powerful weapon without much trouble under ordinary circumstances, but when they are weak, they can potentially be overwhelmed by even a relatively weak weapon. It would allow you to drop Daniel's Willpower if you still want to, as under this system Tzchalyrz would only be Warp Power 4, so he would gain a +30 bonus to Possession Tests, and would be able to lose another 10 points of Willpower from another source, and still be able to wield it without trouble if he wasn't weakened or vulnerable.

~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
Strength of the Daemon
A Daemon Weapon has two important characteristics which determine both how powerful it is, and how difficult to bind.

The first of these is Willpower, which represents the daemon's strength of will, and effects how much damage the weapon will inflict.

The second characteristic is Warp Power, which is measured on a scale, normally from 1-6, although theoretically something like a Daemon Primarch would be much higher. This represents a combination of how tightly bound the entity is, and the scope of the power that they can draw on, with those that can access more strength having more power to overwhelm their wielder.

Any blows struck in close combat by a Daemon Weapon may inflict bonus damage based on either the bearer's Strength, or the daemon's Willpower, at the player's discretion.

A Daemon Weapon may have a number of daemonic properties up to the Warp Power of the daemon bound within. Properties restricted to Greater Entities may only be taken if the daemon has a Warp Power of at least 5.

Here are some sample values for the Willpower and Warp Power of various entities.

Daemonic Servant: Warp Power 1, Willpower 55+d10
Daemonic Beast: Warp Power 2, Willpower 60+d10
Lesser Daemon, Astral Spectre: Warp Power 3, Willpower 65+2d10
Daemonic Herald: Warp Power 4, Willpower 70+2d10
Daemon Prince: Warp Power 5, Willpower 75+3d10
Greater Daemon: Warp Power 6, Willpower 80+3d10

There is a third value, Relative Willpower, which is dependent not just on the daemon, but also on the wielder. It is equal to the difference between the wielder's Willpower, and the Daemon's Willpower, and will be a positive number if the character's willpower is higher, or a negative number if the daemon's willpower is higher.

Possession Tests
At the start of each turn, a character wielding a Daemon Weapon must make a Possession Test. This is a Willpower test, with a bonus equal to +50-5X, where X is the daemon's Warp Power. There is no automatic failure on this test, so if the character's modified Willpower is at least 100, then there is no need to roll. If the test is passed, then nothing happens. However, if the test is failed, then the daemon takes control of the character until they pass another Possession Test.

If a character has more than one Daemon Weapon, then make separate Possession Tests with each of them. If they only fail one test, then they are taken over by that daemon, but if they fail multiple tests then assume they are taken over by the most powerful daemon. Generally, this would be the one with the highest Willpower, with Warp Power used as a tiebreak, but if there are multiple weapons with both the same Willpower and Warp Power, then it is the GM's discretion.

Weakened and Vulnerable
Most characters are unlikely to wield a Daemon Weapon if they cannot ordinarily hold the daemon at bay, and therefore these creatures usually rely on opportune moments of weakness to overwhelm their bearer. As soon as a character enters a weakened or vulnerable state, they must make a Possession Test, even if they have already done so that turn. While weakened or vulnerable, Possession Tests don't receive the normal bonus, and are taken on either the character's unmodified Willpower, or their Willpower modified by the Relative Willpower of the daemon and wielder. The higher of these two values is used if they are weakened, whereas if they are vulnerable, then the lower of the two values is used. Here are various examples of events that may cause a character to become weakened or vulnerable, along with relevant notes. Where applicable, assume that the character remains in a weakened or vulnerable state as long as the condition lasts.

Weakened: Pinned, Stunned, Wielding an Unfamiliar Weapon (GM's discretion, weakened status on applies to tests with unfamiliar weapon), Fleeing
Vulnerable: On Fire (unless they are immune to the harmful effects of the fire), Suffers Perils of the Warp (only make one Possession Roll), Suffering from the effects of Hallucinogens, Unconscious

Examples
Inquisitor Samuel Vaughn is a renowned Horusian, who wields the Daemon Sword Elysilix. Bound within Elysilix is a Keeper of Secrets, and therefore it has a Warp Power of 6, and a Willpower of 98. Vaughn's Willpower is 83, and the relative Willpower is -15. On a normal turn, Vaughn would gain a +20 bonus to his Possession Tests, which takes his modified Willpower over 100, so there is no need to roll, and he is safe to use the weapon.

During a fight, he is wielding Elysilix, and also picks up Arnux, a daemonic knife created by the mutant warp dabbler Quarl Thorch, whom he has just slain. Thorch lacked the knowledge to bind a Greater Entity, and so Arnux only contains a Daemonic Beast, with a Warp Power of 2, and a Willpower of 70, giving a Relative Willpower of +13. Now he must make separate Possession Tests for both Elysilix and Arnux. He still gains the same bonus for Elysilix, however he is unfamiliar with Arnux, so he counts as weakened for these tests. His Possession Tests for Arnux are taken with his Willpower, modified by the relative Willpower of +13, so he has a 96% chance of succeeding, and a 4% chance of been possessed each turn.

Thorch's ally opens fire on Vaughn, and he is pinned. Now he is weakened for the purposes of both weapons, so he still has a 96% chance of passing Possession Tests with Arnux, however his Relative Willpower with Elysilix is negative, so his Possession Tests are taken on his unmodified Willpower, and he has an 83% chance of succeeding, giving him a 17% chance of been possessed by Elysilix each turn.

A third mutant sets Vaughn on fire with a rudimentary flamer, and he is now vulnerable. Possession Tests for Arnux are taken on his unmodified Willpower of 83, and possession tests for Elysilix are taken on his Willpower modified by the Relative Willpower of -15, giving him a 68% chance of passing Possession Tests. Each turn, until the fire is extinguished, he has a 17% chance of failing Possession Tests with Arnux, and a 32% chance of failing Possession Tests with Elysilix. If he fails with both in the same turn, then as Elysilix is the more powerful daemon, this is the one that he will be possessed by.

MarcoSkoll

Those seem like some good ideas to me. Basing the test bonus on the power of the daemon seems the right thing, and while I personally might be a little loose about the exact number of powers a blade might have, as they're clearly not all equal, it's a fair guideline. (But it'd certainly be possible to treat "Greater Entities only" powers as two towards the limit if you really want a balancing system).

For thoughts:

The "higher/lesser value" system might need a little tweaking - if a daemon weapon and its owner are of similar Wp, the difference between being weakened and vulnerable will be negligible (or zero, if they have the same Wp).
Always applying the Wp difference and going for a straight penalty when vulnerable (or a bonus if "only" weakened, depending on which way you want to shift the percentages) might be better, as well as a little easier to explain.

Beyond that, I'd consider moving Stunning to the vulnerable column rather than the weakened one, as I think it should be more penalised than getting pinned or even dealing with an unfamiliar daemon. (I threw that one in there mostly so that if a daemon weapon is a deliberate part of a scenario, it has a decent chance of actually proving dangerous rather than it just being "LOL I pick up daemon weaponzorz swishy swish stabby stab").
S.Sgt Silva Birgen: "Good evening, we're here from the Adeptus Defenestratus."
Captain L. Rollin: "Nonsense. Never heard of it."
Birgen: "Pick a window. I'll demonstrate".

GW's =I= articles

Raghnall

#13
Quote from: MarcoSkoll on April 16, 2016, 03:36:23 PM
Those seem like some good ideas to me. Basing the test bonus on the power of the daemon seems the right thing, and while I personally might be a little loose about the exact number of powers a blade might have, as they're clearly not all equal, it's a fair guideline. (But it'd certainly be possible to treat "Greater Entities only" powers as two towards the limit if you really want a balancing system).
The idea was just to show that power correlates with the difficulty in controlling the daemon. I might just change this to a simple note saying how the greater the Warp Power, the more powers the weapon should have, without a precise number of powers.

QuoteThe "higher/lesser value" system might need a little tweaking - if a daemon weapon and its owner are of similar Wp, the difference between being weakened and vulnerable will be negligible (or zero, if they have the same Wp).
Always applying the Wp difference and going for a straight penalty when vulnerable (or a bonus if "only" weakened, depending on which way you want to shift the percentages) might be better, as well as a little easier to explain.
I like the system, but you're right, it does need altering a bit. Applying the modifier, and then a further bonus/penalty is probably better, but I'm not quite sure which way to go. Taking Vaughn for example*, applying the Willpower difference without a penalty, he has a 96% chance of passing with Arnux, and a 68% chance of passing with Elysilix. A bonus for weakened would allow him to use Arnux with virtually no risk, whereas a penalty for vulnerable would make possession with Elysilix extremely likely. Probably going to opt for the latter, as Elysilix is, to be fair, a very powerful weapon, so it should be extremely risky.

QuoteBeyond that, I'd consider moving Stunning to the vulnerable column rather than the weakened one, as I think it should be more penalised than getting pinned or even dealing with an unfamiliar daemon. (I threw that one in there mostly so that if a daemon weapon is a deliberate part of a scenario, it has a decent chance of actually proving dangerous rather than it just being "LOL I pick up daemon weaponzorz swishy swish stabby stab").
I was a little unsure on where to place that, and I totally agree that it should be more severe than pinning. Regarding the unfamiliar daemon, I get what you were trying to do, but I also think that it's perfectly justifiable from a lore point of view as the character getting used to that daemon's particular method of corruption.

*I may develop him into an actual character at some point, but it's currently just a name.

MarcoSkoll

Quote from: Raghnall on April 16, 2016, 07:10:29 PMProbably going to opt for the latter, as Elysilix is, to be fair, a very powerful weapon, so it should be extremely risky.
Yeah, that's probably the way to go. A greater daemon against a vulnerable mind, even if it's normally a powerful mind, is going to be very dangerous.

It might be possible to split the difference, with a small bonus for weakened and a small penalty for vulnerable (maybe +/- 10 either way), but that's obviously a little more complex.

QuoteI also think that it's perfectly justifiable from a lore point of view as the character getting used to that daemon's particular method of corruption.
I'd also say that a daemon might deliberately push harder at a new mind, seeking to dominate it before it builds up its defences.

Still, while I can justify it, it's still mostly about the in-game shenanigans.
S.Sgt Silva Birgen: "Good evening, we're here from the Adeptus Defenestratus."
Captain L. Rollin: "Nonsense. Never heard of it."
Birgen: "Pick a window. I'll demonstrate".

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