Author Topic: balanced warband?  (Read 3936 times)

Offline theemperorswill

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balanced warband?
« on: October 15, 2009, 03:41:57 PM »
as a newbie i was hoping for some feedback on my proposed group of butt kickers. starting from the top:
eisenhorn.
cherubael.
preacher joseph.
deathcult twins.
and someone with a large, nasty gun.

as i`ve never played inq before, your thoughts on balance would be helpfull. assume the stats will be as per core rules.

live long and profit.
the emperors will be done

Simeon Blackstar

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Re: balanced warband?
« Reply #1 on: October 15, 2009, 04:29:43 PM »
WELCOME TO THE CONCLAVE!

First off, this'll probably be moved to Rules Discussion pretty soon, as the OOC section is specifically for the roleplay area of the Conclave  ;)

It's great to see someone enthusiastic about getting a good collection together.  Six may be a bit too many to field all at once, but it'll give you a good selection to rotate through and a couple for your NPC pool.  Most people tend to play bands of 3-4 characters else turns start taking quite a long time, but especially powerful characters may only have one companion or even go it alone.

On the other hand though, why stick to the rulebook characters when you can make your own up?  The best thing I could suggest would be to get about four or so characters, then mix and match pieces until you find combinations you like.  It'll be a bit hard to do with the ones you've listed, as Cherubae, Josef and the twins don't tend to mix with others particularly well (naked/fat/crazy-slim), but Eisenhorn is a staple of maany conversions.  Gruss, Malicant, Covenant and Slick are good generic base models for mixing up too.

Lastly, I'd say to beware of using the profiles in the book.  The sample characters and random generator are all very powerful examples of their archetype.  Like many others, I'd advise taking a look at p23 in the Rulebook where it lays out what all the stats mean and just choosing your own.  Remember that playing an unbeatable character isn't fun - the chance of failure is what makes games exciting.  Be restrained with what you give your guys; don't just grab everything you like the look of.  Bolters and power weapons are lethal in this game (as they should be), and if people have sensible statistics you'll soon find that even laspistols are more than the 'flashlights' you get in 40k ("What you you call a lasgun with a laser sight?" "Twin linked!"  ;D).  Don't have too many massively powerful weapons on the table and you'll all have fun.

Ok, one more thing then.  Exact balance between warbands is over-rated.  While it's good, you don't have to have a close combat specialist who can take on anyone toe-to-toe, a sniper who can shoot a gnat through one eye and out the other, or a psyker who can flay souls with but a glance.  Just make the objectives harder for someone who's got a more powerful character.  The old site Inquis Xenos summed it up best for me:

Quote from: Inquis Xenos
We're not saying don't use powerful guns; far from it. In our campaigns, there is no source of fear quite like Inquisitor Khainem's plasma blaster. The sheer terror it generates in opposing players is fantastic, and the relief when he fires it and misses, and so will have to wait 2 turns before shooting again, is almost tangible. However, that effect would be muted, and nowhere near as much fun, if everybody had one. If you save powerful weapons for a few characters, it'll both cut down on outright deaths and make those weapons justly frightening!
...
A good example of this is Inquisitor Khainem again. He's incredibly hard. In a one-on-one slugfest he'd take out most other characters in our campaign. So, to make sure things stay interesting for Jon and don't get too difficult for everyone else, Inquisitor Khainem's power has to be taken into account when our GMs are planning scenarios.

One particularly good game saw him locating and storming an entire terrorist cell on his own, with the objective not of killing the terrorists but destroying a particular file he knew they had. His individual superiority was great fun, and very characterising of the whole 'feel the wrath of Imperial justice' type stuff, but the fact that he was outnumbered and had to stop the terrorists escaping with a computer file meant the scenario was still challenging for him. In the end he just failed, the last terrorist escaping out of a second-floor window via a rope ladder and scooting off the table just as a plasma blaster shot vaporised the concrete inches from his ankles. Khainem did, however, slaughter four terrorists in entertaining fashion.

All you're really trying to avoid is a one-upmanship contest in terms of character power. If you can coordinate that with your players, you're onto a winner before you've even run a game.

Offline Tullio

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Re: balanced warband?
« Reply #2 on: October 15, 2009, 05:16:15 PM »
I'd just like to add that the background you give your characters is just as important as the raw numbers - it's what makes the difference between just another Eisenhorn conversion and Inquisitor Talevarr Deranis, Witch-Hunter extraordinaire and frigid hunter of the heretic! Check out the twenty questions somewhere on this board, shamelessly steal from classic literature, and don't be afraid to post your ideas for the Conclave's critical eye.

Balance tends to become irrelevant once you've got a good story going, and I personally find that a lot more fun  :)

Tullio

Offline theemperorswill

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Re: balanced warband?
« Reply #3 on: October 15, 2009, 05:29:53 PM »
thanks guys. wasn`t thinking of playing all charactors at once , but as you say, nice to have a selection. need to get out of the 40k mindset. time will tell.
the emperors will be done

Offline Morcus

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Re: balanced warband?
« Reply #4 on: October 15, 2009, 06:30:57 PM »
I find the game more fn if your band isn't balanced and is more towards one aspect, that said I prefer to arm my guys with pistols and ccws as it looks cool.

Eisenhorne is a great model to start with as you can do alot with it with just minor things, the main conversion on mine is a head swap (Kal Jerichos) and it dramatically alters it.

you mentioned wanting a heavy, I recomend a missle launcher or grenade launcher of some kind as they can be great fun, especially with halucinagens.

Offline theemperorswill

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Re: balanced warband?
« Reply #5 on: October 15, 2009, 06:52:52 PM »
as eisenhorn is my 1st 52mm model, thought i`d stick to vanilla, but have plans for my demonhost along the lines of adding warhammer eagle wings and scale chains. never tried converts at 28mm but looking 4ward to the old imagination running wild. will post pics as soon as highlights added to inq
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Offline Inquisitor Cade

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Re: balanced warband?
« Reply #6 on: October 15, 2009, 07:15:20 PM »
as a newbie i was hoping for some feedback on my proposed group of butt kickers.

I'm assuming you are being ironic here, but if not you certainly shouldn't be creating a group from a 'what would do well in a game' stand point.

Quote
starting from the top:
eisenhorn.
cherubael.
preacher joseph.
deathcult twins.
and someone with a large, nasty gun.

I would really, really encourage you to make up your own characters. It makes it a whole lot more fun to create and play with them when they are your creation rather than just someone you read about.
I find one of the best ways is to buy a few kits, chop and change the parts (a little bit of green stuff is often necessary to ensure the parts fit together), and see what you end up with. Most of my best models were made this way and a cool model inspires a cool character. Alternatively plunder your favorite games/books/films/imagination for a suitable character and twist him into somethig new for your charcater, then choose what parts to use for him.

Quote
as i`ve never played inq before, your thoughts on balance would be helpfull. assume the stats will be as per core rules.

The stats at the back of LRB (living rule book) are good in some cases but often inappropriate, better are the descriptions of the stats on page 15. There was a thread in this forum a short while ago about stats so I'd reference that in favour of the LRB. Don't worry about it too much though, as if you post a character with his stats and background we will quickly tell you if you are overdoing (or indeed underdoing) the stats.

You say you have an eisenhorn. If I were you I'd effect a weapon swap at least, the cain sword is a bit too much of a signature weapon to keep if you ask me. What parts do you have (inc 28mm) that you could use?
*Insert token witticism*

Offline Adlan

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Re: balanced warband?
« Reply #7 on: October 16, 2009, 01:58:32 AM »
I'd strongly recommend making your own characters, it's more fun, more interesting, and generally the point of inquisitor.

Think of something cool, that you like. And create that character, and model.

Or, Alternativly, make the model and see what kind of character you get.

I do a bit of both, I make a concept, build a model to fit that concept, and then create the character that the model is.


With Esienhorn as a Base, and doing only the simplest of conversions, you can achieve alot. Look at the parts you have and see what you fancy. You could remove the scabbared, and pin the staff in it's place. Swap the sword for a pistol, (28mm space marine pistols or ork pistols make great 54mm pistols, even some guard stuff are fine). If you have another 54mm model, try a head swap.

(I don't actually think I've seen a Josef head on a Esienhorn or Visa versa yet, might work).

But prepared to shave, file and green stuff a little.

But, at the end of it, when you have a real unique model, and build the character to go with it, it's awesome.

Offline TheNephew

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Re: balanced warband?
« Reply #8 on: October 16, 2009, 02:32:09 AM »
I'm not so sure that Josef will go on Eisenhorn or vice versa, since Josef is quite a big model and Eisenhorn's a bit stringy.
Phil Kelly(?)'s Inquisitor Kessel from the White Dwarf introductory battle reports was Eisenhorn with Cherubael's head and a massive daemonsword, probably taken from a 40k/FB daemon prince.
So you've got a good conversion there, if you want - possibly the head-swap will work in reverse as well, in which case you can have a really old and withered daemonhost, which will make a pleasant change from the rather inhuman looking variety that is the norm.
If you go for the head swap but it won't work in reverse, you could try the bag-on-the-head method - make a ball of putty roughly the size and shape of a head (including neck) and then use another rolled out piece of putty, or perhaps foil (like from tomato puree tubes) to put a mask/drape over the head down to the shoulders. Conveniently avoids having to fudge a neck join.

I'd also recommend a weapon swap for Eisenhorn, as his cane sword certainly is an all too recognisable feature.
If you have a small drill bit, you could try swapping the sword for the staff on his back, or for another staff entirely - a plastic rod with a suitable bit from 40k/FB as a headpiece.

Anyway, I should be asleep.

Offline DapperAnarchist

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Re: balanced warband?
« Reply #9 on: October 16, 2009, 11:42:53 AM »
Nah, that was Gav Thorpe's Kessel. Phil Kelly was Lichenstein, which was Eisenhorn with his head turned, Gruss's gun arm, a Daemon sword and Covenant's backpack/shotgun.

I found that the Rogue Trader head, minus the ponytail, fits well into the collar, as might Slick's...
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Offline Adlan

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Re: balanced warband?
« Reply #10 on: October 16, 2009, 03:00:34 PM »
Covenants head, with a bit of green stuff to add neck length, also fits.

Offline Discy

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Re: balanced warband?
« Reply #11 on: October 16, 2009, 09:23:08 PM »
And you don't have to stick to proper Inquisitor models! I once cobbled together a mutant out of some Ork weapons, the BFSP plastic Troll (gods, what an awful model), and some greenstuff. One paintjob later, I had a short, but Inquisitified mutant. And I think Kaled on this forum made a Inqui-scaled Ogryn out of the old Warhammer metal giant. If you can make sense out of all that rambling, let me know ???
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Offline precinctomega

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Re: balanced warband?
« Reply #12 on: October 18, 2009, 08:26:27 AM »
Slick's head fits really well on Eisenhorn's body.  I remember the long-lost Chief Justice Rob MacFarlane had an inquisitor character with slick's head and a sculpted bear on Eisenhorn's body and it looked ace.

R.