Author Topic: Two space marines one deathwatch one blood angels  (Read 224 times)

Offline scabbs

  • Initiate
  • *
  • Posts: 21
Two space marines one deathwatch one blood angels
« on: November 15, 2019, 07:56:48 PM »
Would using to space.marinss be fair against say five cultists

Offline MarcoSkoll

  • Arch Data-Archivist
  • Administrator
  • Grand Lord Inquisitor
  • *****
  • Posts: 4894
  • Time for some thrilling heroics.
Re: Two space marines one deathwatch one blood angels
« Reply #1 on: November 17, 2019, 05:18:37 AM »
While a Space Marine can make sense narratively (such as Inquisitor calling in support when he's discovered a major nest of heresy he cannot purge on his own.), I don't think I've ever really seen them be "fair" in Inquisitor.

But then, they're not really supposed to be. They're supposed to be super soldiers who can single handedly wipe out platoons or even companies of Guardsmen. (In this respect, the Space Marine video game did a very good job of depicting what they should be, where three Space Marines make a major impact on an Ork invasion by applying their prowess in the right place at the right time).

However, as far as Inquisitor, their original rules are actually broken. And I don't mean merely unbalanced, I mean they're so wildly outside what the rules were meant to do that stupid things happen. (Like them being able to do more damage by throwing their bolter than shooting it).
The Dark Magenta fanzine (see issue 2) considerably improves on this though; they're still not balanced, but the ruleset no longer breaks down sobbing in the corner. (It's actually a standard rule for my events that Space Marines must use the Dark Magenta rules).

As such, I normally limit Space Marines to big climax scenarios. They're much easier to handle in scenarios where they can be bogged down under a tide of throwaway NPCs.

This also makes sense lore-wise; Space Marines are incredibly rare, and even an Inquisitor cannot mess around someone as powerful as a Chapter Master by requesting his Astartes except in the direst of need. And "direst of need" does not include scouring the marketplace for your informant.
Even if he could, other Inquisitors would take offence to him squandering the Emperor's sacred resources and would start taking matters into their own hands.

But, by all means, if you have an idea for an interesting Space Marine character, don't let me stop you. They've certainly got a place in Inquisitor, even if not every scenario is suited for them.
S.Sgt Silva Birgen: "Good evening, we're here from the Adeptus Defenestratus."
Captain L. Rollin: "Nonsense. Never heard of it."
Birgen: "Pick a window. I'll demonstrate".

GW's =I= articles

Offline scabbs

  • Initiate
  • *
  • Posts: 21
Re: Two space marines one deathwatch one blood angels
« Reply #2 on: November 17, 2019, 03:33:51 PM »
While a Space Marine can make sense narratively (such as Inquisitor calling in support when he's discovered a major nest of heresy he cannot purge on his own.), I don't think I've ever really seen them be "fair" in Inquisitor.

But then, they're not really supposed to be. They're supposed to be super soldiers who can single handedly wipe out platoons or even companies of Guardsmen. (In this respect, the Space Marine video game did a very good job of depicting what they should be, where three Space Marines make a major impact on an Ork invasion by applying their prowess in the right place at the right time).

However, as far as Inquisitor, their original rules are actually broken. And I don't mean merely unbalanced, I mean they're so wildly outside what the rules were meant to do that stupid things happen. (Like them being able to do more damage by throwing their bolter than shooting it).
The Dark Magenta fanzine (see issue 2) considerably improves on this though; they're still not balanced, but the ruleset no longer breaks down sobbing in the corner. (It's actually a standard rule for my events that Space Marines must use the Dark Magenta rules).

As such, I normally limit Space Marines to big climax scenarios. They're much easier to handle in scenarios where they can be bogged down under a tide of throwaway NPCs.

This also makes sense lore-wise; Space Marines are incredibly rare, and even an Inquisitor cannot mess around someone as powerful as a Chapter Master by requesting his Astartes except in the direst of need. And "direst of need" does not include scouring the marketplace for your informant.
Even if he could, other Inquisitors would take offence to him squandering the Emperor's sacred resources and would start taking matters into their own hands.

But, by all means, if you have an idea for an interesting Space Marine character, don't let me stop you. They've certainly got a place in Inquisitor, even if not every scenario is suited for them.

I completly agree which is why i would be using 1 or 2 at max say two brothers who were split at birth and end up in two different chapters each sent to search and destroy a chaos/genestealer cult hive world

Offline MarcoSkoll

  • Arch Data-Archivist
  • Administrator
  • Grand Lord Inquisitor
  • *****
  • Posts: 4894
  • Time for some thrilling heroics.
Re: Two space marines one deathwatch one blood angels
« Reply #3 on: November 19, 2019, 07:57:37 AM »
I'm not sure that you do entirely agree, because my point is that Space Marines are so powerful that they are almost always unbalanced in Inquisitor, and that applies no matter how few of them you use.

That's also saying nothing of the fact that they're frequently thematically inappropriate. A lot of Inquisitor scenarios are not combat centric.

~~~~~

To address a common theme across your posts, Inquisitor is not a normal skirmish game, and it was definitely not made to be "detailed WH40K". It's not supposed to be about special forces operations - that kind of thing is the role of Shadow War or Kill Team.

Inquisitor is more akin to tabletop improv theatre; your purpose as a player is to play the characters involved, even if it is to the detriment of your actual objective.
I've often "lost" games because having a character do things that were of no benefit to the mission was exactly what the character would do in those circumstances, wasting time and meaning they weren't where they needed to be. I've also fought close combats where I was in control of both of the characters because the two of them wanted to do entirely different things and came to blows.

Because of this style of gameplay, Inquisitor focuses primarily on a less military side of the Imperium, looking at problems more complicated than can be solved by simply throwing the Imperial Guard at them. It's all about circumstances painted in shades of grey - political troubles, hidden threats and ancient conspiracies that most Imperial citizens would be executed just for knowing about.

Sure, the Inquisition does recruit from the Imperial Guard - but usually in small numbers, to be muscle for a more rounded team.

If you're looking to use the Last Chancers or Gaunt's Ghosts, then as much as I absolutely love Inquisitor, I have to say that it may not be quite the ruleset you're looking for. Inquisitor's combat is designed for drama, rather than balance.

~~~~~

I'm going to copy in a section from an introductory leaflet that we often hand out to confused passers-by at events:

Quote
+++ What is Inquisitor? (and other frequently asked questions) +++
Inquisitor is a narrative wargame, focused primarily around the conflicts of the Holy Inquisition, either amongst its own ranks or against the enemies of mankind. Unlike the main game of the Warhammer 40,000 universe, it is not about "the front-line of mud and gas and behemoth engines" (to quote Dan Abnett's Eisenhorn foreword), but is instead set amongst the internal and domestic complexities of the Imperium - shadow wars where good, evil, right and wrong all merge into indistinct shades of grey.

If you have read the Eisenhorn series, you will already be familiar with the concept of an Inquisitor and his closest allies striving against these more subtle (but no less dangerous) threats to the Imperium, with their reward often to die alone and unremembered by the billions of citizens they may have saved from the encroaching dark.

Inquisitor is your chance to tell the dramatic, daring (and sometimes clumsy) stories of these unsung heroes.

+++ What characters can I play? +++
With the right attitude, pretty much anyone in the Imperium or even beyond it - Inquisitor is a very unfettered game.

The most common approach is for a player's "warband" to be centred around a powerful and independent individual such as an Inquisitor, Rogue Trader, Tech-Priest or Chaos Magus, accompanied by allies ranging between warriors, savants, astropaths, thieves, servitors or any other possibility you can imagine.

As in Abnett's novels, these characters are very often not from the military, nor are they famed heroes; they are simply any man or woman who has the skills and courage to fight in the Battle for the Emperor's Soul - a war not always fought with guns and blades, but just as often minds.

+++ How is the game played? +++
Inquisitor is uniquely described as a 'narrative wargame', because unlike many tabletop games where players field balanced 'armies' and each side is simply attempting to beat the other, the Inquisitor ethos is more around semi-competitive storytelling.

For an analogy, Inquisitor is 'tabletop improv theatre' -  the gamesmaster (GM) is the director/scenesetter, the players are his actors, and the characters are their roles.
It is wargaming for poets; part skirmish and part RPG, it offers players the freedom to envision and play a fully realised cast of characters with all their personal drives, prejudices and heroics.

The GM is central to this experience, as he has the power and responsibility to oversee the game; he designs the scenario, controls any "non player characters" (NPCs) and generally ensures that the narrative flows fluidly and enjoyably for all players - even if it does sometimes mean bending or ignoring the rules.

An Inquisitor scenario can take many forms, between desperately escaping from exploding reactors, to stealth missions in heavily guarded libraries. Players will generally require thought and creativity to succeed, rather than simply being able to prevail solely through force of arms.
Games are also generally small; each player will normally control one to four characters, with perhaps ten or twelve characters in total on the table (including any controlled by the GM).

New players sometimes feel overwhelmed when they first read the rulebook, but as with most games, the rules are a lot simpler than they first appear. Once you get used to the game, almost all of the charts you need are collected together on a single A4 reference sheet.
If that sounds like something you'd enjoy, then fair enough, but my advice is that you will definitely get more out of Inquisitor if you shift away from a purely military focused view of the WH40K universe (there may be only war, but that doesn't mean everyone is a soldier).

But if you are looking to have crack teams of Guardsmen carrying out special operations, then I would suggest that you at least check out things like Kill Team, Shadow War or Inquisimunda (a fan modification of Necromunda with extended gang creation rules) before you commit to Inquisitor; these rulesets are more designed for that kind of combat, so you may find they will provide you with a more enjoyable experience on the table.

~~~~~

As odd as it may seem to be suggesting other games, I've seen a lot of damage done to Inquisitor's reputation over the years by people who misunderstood it, tried to use it for things it wasn't meant for, and then complained profusely about how bad a game it was. (Which, frankly, is a bit like someone trying to drive a speedboat around the Nurburgring, and then blaming the speedboat for not working on a race track).

As much as it may sound like an elitist "you're playing the game wrong" kind of rant, I've played a lot of Inquisitor over the years and I know the ruleset has a lot of things it doesn't do well. I'd rather see everyone playing a game that does what they truly want, even if it does mean fewer players for Inquisitor.

While Inquisitor does some things really well, those things are rather unusual.
« Last Edit: November 19, 2019, 08:06:46 AM by MarcoSkoll »
S.Sgt Silva Birgen: "Good evening, we're here from the Adeptus Defenestratus."
Captain L. Rollin: "Nonsense. Never heard of it."
Birgen: "Pick a window. I'll demonstrate".

GW's =I= articles