Author Topic: Marco does something  (Read 132396 times)

Offline MarcoSkoll

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Re: Marco does something
« Reply #45 on: December 10, 2009, 02:53:03 PM »
I would say that some of the 28mm bits look a little small for Inquisitor (especially his hellpistol)
They're small, yes, but if you compare to the image I'm working from, then it's plain enough that 54mm parts would turn out too large. As it stands, the weapons actually fit the scale I'm working to quite reasonably.

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Frost is probably my favourite, I can definitely see the resemblance to the concept drawings you posted of her way back.
Frost's model has been paused for the last few days. Her model isn't as immediately important as Lyra, Kai and Renatus (who will form an IGT warband), and I rather need the spare time for them - either way, I'd rather not rush the model through unnecessarily.

I had a half plan that she might act as an NPC in my IGT scenario, but I've moved on from that idea.

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Renatus is looking good, for the most part, but his arms (particularly the right one) seem disproportionately long.
The arms have been shortened since the last picture, but they are still slightly on the long side, because I figured it was better for them to look a little long than have the wrong forearm/upper arm balance.
As I haven't the time to get them fixed before the IGT, I'm going to leave them. As I've already explained, the model has other issues that are beyond an easy fix, so I'm calling the model a learning experience and will change it out at some point in the future.

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Not much to say about Marco yet, except that he's strikingly tall next to Frost, which I understand to be intentional. Also, I'd like to ask what that slab on his chest is intended to be, or what it will turn into.
It's not Marco. It's a model of myself - David, Ragnarok, Diablo... whichever of the names or nicknames the twit sitting at this keyboard has gone by in the past. It'll serve mostly as an NPC - after all, what better NPC than the GM himself? :P

Although, that said, Marco is supposed to be around the same height as myself. He's a little over 6 foot, she's a little over 5 foot, so the comparative heights of Frost and Marco will be pretty much the same.

The "slab" is part of some torso armour. It's not meant to be all that sophisticated, because it's meant to be able to pass as various different armours depending on how "hard" an NPC it's acting as.

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Instinctive name recognition works completely the wrong way for me in this context. Gives me a 'wierd feeling' I can't get over. Not your fault, though.
Yeah, I recall the whole "Dark Materials" thing being mentioned at an earlier date, but it's a name that just wanted to work for me.

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I might also mention that of all the characters I've seen on this forum (besides those belonging to me or my gaming buddy Dust King), yours - Silva in particular, with Frost a close second - seem to stay with me the most.
Well, that's a great honour.

For a character who was originally created by accident, I'm sure Silva will be delighted to hear that's she's proving popular.
Actually, both of those two were something of an accident - while Silva came about because of my limited drawing skills, Frost was originally a casual line in Marco's background that I never really intended to be more than a background NPC.

It's only because I was fishing around possible characters for "The Heresy of Magos Veleron" RP that she ever got developed beyond vague ideas. I hadn't really thought about it before, but she owes a lot to Koval. If he hadn't expressed dislike for the first character concept I pitched, she wouldn't have received the attention that made her the character she is.

Actually... it goes beyond that. It was as a result of trying to put an appearance to her that I got back into drawing. Absolutely sod all of what's on my DeviantArt account would be there but for that.

Odd how you realise how various events in your life depend on tiny details.

There was a whole swathe of music I got into because of a small comment I posted on a Youtube video about a Lego Crossbow...

... and I probably wouldn't be here at all but for the fact a mate of a mate did a webcomic, another mate had made a mistake in a drawing, a Maplin store had internet access, and my mother teaching at the particular school she does...

It really does makes me wonder where I could have been if things had been slightly different. For the want of a nail indeed.
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Offline MarcoSkoll

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Re: Marco does something
« Reply #46 on: December 11, 2009, 12:05:53 AM »
When I started this thread three weeks ago, even I was somewhat sceptical that this post would be coming...

Kai is finished:

Left, Back and  Right

...I told you my painting wasn't great.
I might tidy it up a little if time can be found to spare, but I've got the more pressing concerns of finishing Lyra and Renatus. Not that I can't finish them tomorrow, but I am really down to the wire.

Actually, this makes Kai my first completed Inquisitor scale sculpt. And for something that was a collection of brass wire, green stuff and paint less than a month ago, I'm happy. Evidently I can meet sort of meet deadlines every now and again.

As far as thoughts on the model, I know it's a little less bulky than the original image, has a somewhat lighter colour scheme and a few errors in the sculpt - but the phrase "Good enough" exists for a reason.
« Last Edit: December 14, 2009, 11:59:34 AM by MarcoSkoll »
S.Sgt Silva Birgen: "Good evening, we're here from the Adeptus Defenestratus."
Captain L. Rollin: "Nonsense. Never heard of it."
Birgen: "Pick a window. I'll demonstrate".

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Offline Inquisitor Cade

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Re: Marco does something
« Reply #47 on: December 11, 2009, 01:00:26 AM »
Nice work. What did you use for the laspistol barrel/flash supressor? Is it from a 40k las weapon, because they always seemed too small, but it looked fine on him.

I'd suggest a second wire from the pistol to the pack, if possible and giving the grenades the customary green body. I'd also have done the chevrons on his leg a different colour to the camo.

Why don't you imbed images in the post, maybe not all of them but at least the front?
*Insert token witticism*

Offline MarcoSkoll

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Re: Marco does something
« Reply #48 on: December 11, 2009, 01:06:23 AM »
Is it from a 40k las weapon, because they always seemed too small, but it looked fine on him.
The whole hellgun is just a cut down 28mm lasgun.

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I'd suggest a second wire from the pistol to the pack if possible
I considered it, but the wire I had that was fine enough was a little frail.

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I'd also have done the chevrons on his leg a different colour to the camo.
Fair enough. I'll see if there's time to tweak it.

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Why don't you imbed images in the post, maybe not all of them but at least the front?
Mostly so people (particularly if on a lesser connection) don't have to load the thing each time they try to read the thread. If they want to look at it again, they can find the link.
S.Sgt Silva Birgen: "Good evening, we're here from the Adeptus Defenestratus."
Captain L. Rollin: "Nonsense. Never heard of it."
Birgen: "Pick a window. I'll demonstrate".

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Offline Kaled

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Re: Marco does something
« Reply #49 on: December 11, 2009, 07:35:51 AM »
Nice work Marco - he certainly brings the original image to mind.  His face turned out extremely well for a self-sculpted one - I only hope I can achieve similar results.  And in general the painting's not bad at all - a little flat in places, but generally neat, so you're in a good position to start working on your shading and highlighting techniques in future.

Are you going to do anything more with his base?
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Offline MarcoSkoll

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Re: Marco does something
« Reply #50 on: December 11, 2009, 10:47:09 AM »
Nice work Marco - he certainly brings the original image to mind.
<mrburnsvoice> Excellent. </mrburnsvoice>

;D

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His face turned out extremely well for a self-sculpted one - I only hope I can achieve similar results.
It was a whole heap less difficult than I expected it would be. For the most part, I find drawing faces somewhat challenging - in part because of perspective, which of course is less of an issue on a 3D model, but even so, for a head that's a mere fraction of the size I draw at, it didn't come across as something that would be easy.

Not that it was a total breeze - it still took 6 different tools (Sculpting tool, Scalpel, Wicking needle*, Fine tweezers, a small brush and some 3/32" brass tubing) - but for the most part, the results were far from the horrible mess I expected I was going to be left with.

*For the pittance it cost, actually one of my best tools, especially for fine work.

I guess it depends on how you go about it, but each method will work for someone different. Whichever way you choose, it's a good idea to have a reference photo (or at least something realistically rendered) - you may not meet it exactly, but it gives you something to work for.

The work on the face for "Mini-me" (not shown yet) is probably the best of the set, mostly because the reference was something I was particularly familiar with - I've had enough years to learn the details and asymmetries in my face. For example, my right eye is fractionally higher than my left, something which I subconsciously compensate for by tilting my head (until they're roughly level), instead giving an illusion my nose slants slightly. It's various details like that which people see but don't notice - a whole world of fun for artists, trying to learn to see what's there, not what you think is there.

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And in general the painting's not bad at all - a little flat in places, but generally neat, so you're in a good position to start working on your shading and highlighting techniques in future.
The colour and shading suffers partly because it's a known weakness in my art (for the most part, I do lineart - colour is usually an afterthought, if applied at all), and partly because I'm not known for mixing colours - and unfortunately I discovered that in storage, a few of my paints had kicked the bucket.

With my armies including blue Space Marines, an Eldar army with lots of Dire Avengers (so more blue), a red and yellow Empire army,  and a white and blue High Elf army, I wasn't using the full range of my greens - so a few of them were still in the old style pots, which seem to dry out more easily. (And given how long that style of pot went out, they've had a long time to dry up.)

What do is I'll run up a list of the colours which I'm short on or which need replacing and buy them at WHW - well, those that are still in the range. They seem to delight in cutting the colours which I'm without.

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Are you going to do anything more with his base?
Possibly, if there's time, but it'll be something low-key and generic. For the most part, I keep my Inquisitor bases reasonably plain - I'm not sure why a "grass" base on a "concrete" table bothers me more at 54mm than 28mm, but it does.
S.Sgt Silva Birgen: "Good evening, we're here from the Adeptus Defenestratus."
Captain L. Rollin: "Nonsense. Never heard of it."
Birgen: "Pick a window. I'll demonstrate".

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Offline Sneak

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Re: Marco does something
« Reply #51 on: December 11, 2009, 12:34:59 PM »
[jealous]That guy looks awesome, approx how tall is he? Its strange to see a character with normal human proportions instead of the obscenely large hands/chest/arms/head of the 'heroic' scale :p[/jealous]

my only (very minor) issue is his colours are quite light. I imagine a war veteran from the grim dark future would be, well grim and dark :p but tbh he still looks amazing. Maybe just give him designerstubble or something :p

Xmas money arriving soon means Im going to have my own sculpting project to start, do you have any advice on faces, also roughly how much should I set aside for  tools, which are the most important/useful? I had a few but I lost them aaages ago.

Thanks

p.s. ... jealous

Offline Kaled

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Re: Marco does something
« Reply #52 on: December 11, 2009, 01:49:08 PM »
so a few of them were still in the old style pots, which seem to dry out more easily. (And given how long that style of pot went out, they've had a long time to dry up.)
Which pots do you mean when you say old-style ones - because I have some old paints from about 199o when GW paints game in round pots with white lids and they're still as good as the day I bought them.  I also have quite a lot in the hexagonal pots with white lids that are perfect as well.  The ones from brief period when GW put their paints in small hexagonal pots with black screw tops all dried up ages ago, and the ones in the current style of pots also seem to dry up a lot quicker too.  Not sure if the pots are the sole factor, as I believe GW changed their paint supplier, but when I've mixed up batches of new paint and put it in the old pots it's lasted longer than the paint that was left in the original pot.

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For the most part, I keep my Inquisitor bases reasonably plain - I'm not sure why a "grass" base on a "concrete" table bothers me more at 54mm than 28mm, but it does.
I admit I do like it when my warband's bases match the table I'm playing on, but I've never understood people who leave their bases black because people don't wander round on concrete with a circle of grass at their feet - neither do people wander around with a black (or grey/green/brown/<insert preferred base colour here>) circle at their feet either.  I realise it's a personal preference thing, but I do think that a nice base finishes off a model properly.  Yes it can look a little strange on some tables, but I think it's worth it for the times when it matches the table.

Xmas money arriving soon means Im going to have my own sculpting project to start, do you have any advice on faces, also roughly how much should I set aside for  tools, which are the most important/useful?
For conversions, I'd suggest a good knife and a couple of cheap ones for rough work, a razor saw and a jewelers saw (are they the proper names?), a set of needle files, and a drill.  For sculpting, you can buy a set of sculpting tools, but I rarely use mine and often improvise with cocktail sticks, bits of sprue etc.  One thing I do use a lot when sculpting are clay shapers - I find them invaluable.  You can spend whatever you want on tools really - I tend to go for decent quality ones as I find that cheap ones can be more trouble than they're worth.  Heresy do a good line in modelling tools - there's a link in the 'Modelling Resources' sticky.
« Last Edit: December 11, 2009, 05:00:39 PM by Kaled »
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Offline MarcoSkoll

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Re: Marco does something
« Reply #53 on: December 11, 2009, 03:37:04 PM »
That guy looks awesome, approx how tall is he?
56mm to the eyes. He's supposed to be a little taller than average (which would of course be 54mm to the eyes).

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Its strange to see a character with normal human proportions instead of the obscenely large hands/chest/arms/head of the 'heroic' scale
In its own way, it is. I'm hoping the set won't be too out of place amongst the heroic models, but there are enough people who use more normally proportioned models from other manufacturers in amongst their collections without particular issue.

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my only (very minor) issue is his colours are quite light.
Like I say above, some of my paints have copped it. A restock will be carried out tomorrow while I'm at the IGT, and there'll likely be some repainting after that.

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Do you have any advice on faces?
Some, yes - although more than can be easily explained in text alone.

Given the number of people who have expressed difficulty with faces, I'm considering writing up an article on how I do it. As I've been told by the nice people at the computer company that my laptop will be returned on Monday, I'll be in a good position to start.

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Also roughly how much should I set aside for  tools, which are the most important/useful?
Currently, I'm getting by on an old GW sculpting tool (don't bother with the new one, it's useless), a set of cheap brushes (not my painting brushes), a couple of pieces of 3/32" and 5/32" brass tubing, and a wicking needle. (... well, other than the standard clippers, files, pin vice and assorted stuff you'd expect to have on a modelling table anyway.)

I have been considering adding more tools, possibly one of Heresy's sets.

Which pots do you mean when you say old-style ones
Hexagonal, Black Screw top - design prior to the current one unless I'm mistaken.
I find they're less reliable than the current design at keeping paint fresh. Perhaps there are even older designs that work better, but that design was mostly hindered by the fact that paint on the screw threads could stop the lid going on properly.

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For sculpting, you can buy a set of sculpting tools, but I rarely use mine and often improvise with cocktail sticks, bits of sprue etc.
I sometimes improvise tools (I cut one to do Frost's scales), but for the most part, I use the proper tools.

Primarily because I'm a cheeky bastard who Teflon coated his main sculpting tool to stop the putty sticking to it the whole time.
S.Sgt Silva Birgen: "Good evening, we're here from the Adeptus Defenestratus."
Captain L. Rollin: "Nonsense. Never heard of it."
Birgen: "Pick a window. I'll demonstrate".

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Offline phil-o-mat

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Re: Marco does something
« Reply #54 on: December 11, 2009, 03:46:37 PM »
how did you manage to coat your tool with teflon?
and how does it work?

Offline kierkegaard

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Re: Marco does something
« Reply #55 on: December 11, 2009, 04:56:35 PM »
Well, he looks a bit skinny, and the head looks a bit large, but that is a hell of a good self sculpted model you have there. Very well done. Looking forward to seeing the rest of them.

Offline Sneak

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Re: Marco does something
« Reply #56 on: December 11, 2009, 05:16:47 PM »
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Do you have any advice on faces?
Some, yes - although more than can be easily explained in text alone.

Given the number of people who have expressed difficulty with faces, I'm considering writing up an article on how I do it. As I've been told by the nice people at the computer company that my laptop will be returned on Monday, I'll be in a good position to start.

I will be waiting at my computer screen with bated breath. Look forward to seeing it. Ive found a couple of useful guides for sculpting bodies in natural positions and with the right proportions but either I fail at looking or the world fails at producing useful in depth head tutorials beyond "the eyes go here, the mouth here and dont make it too big/small/round/square or it will look stupid"

Edit: Just looked at Heresy Sculpting tool prices and for my needs I shouldnt be looking to spend more than I have, which makes me smile. Thanks for that

Offline Hadriel Caine

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Re: Marco does something
« Reply #57 on: December 11, 2009, 06:45:28 PM »
I'd echo the call to have at least the 'front' image embedded, nearly missed it in my confusion and that would've been a crying shame cos Kai looks AWESOME. I'd have gone for a darker scheme myself (armour wise to contrast the pale skin) and used some washes but it really works how it is. Don't change anything if you don't want to!
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Offline MarcoSkoll

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Re: Marco does something
« Reply #58 on: December 14, 2009, 04:03:56 PM »
Well, as the various photo albums around the forum have shown, they made it to the IGT.

We have Lyra:

Left,Back and Right.

And Renatus:

Back and Right.

The work on both was a bit rushed towards the end. I talk further about that below.

Also, what I have here is an assortment of unpainted photos:
Kai and Renatus - Left, Back and Right

Lyra - Left, Back and Right

Others may have their own favourite, but I'm personally convinced that Kai is the best of the set so far. We'll see if Frost gets around to dethroning him. (I should note though that I'm taking a bit of a break from the modelling, given the madness that made up the last three weeks).

Well, he looks a bit skinny, and the head looks a bit large
The first point is hardly surprising. I made the models to more anatomically correct proportions than is typical for Inquisitor models, so they will appear somewhat "lanky" compared to GW models.
There was lots of measuring done to get the sizes of the ribcage and pelvis right on the basic armature, so he's pretty close to what a human really should be.

The second point - I'm more surprised. An 8mm head on a 60mm total figure comes out at the standard artistic norm of 7.5 heads to the body. Compare most GW Inq models, and they're typically closer to 6 heads to the body. But I guess you might be seeing something of an optical illusion relative to other Inq models due to the relative skinniness.

Overall, the proportions come out as roughly correct for a normal human.

how did you manage to coat your tool with teflon?
Much the same way as you would coat anything with Teflon - in this case, I used an air drying spray I use for various other things. I didn't see the need to go for a tougher baked coating.

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and how does it work?
Pretty well actually. Comparing two otherwise identical tools, the coated one makes it noticeably faster to get smoother results.

I'd have gone for a darker scheme myself (armour wise to contrast the pale skin) and used some washes but it really works how it is.
As I say above, I admit rushing a bit in order to meet the deadline of the IGT. The current plan is to strip the paint off Lyra and Kai, fix a couple of minor sculpting mistakes (which may include a re-sculpted head for Lyra), then repaint both of them in a less rushed manner.

I'm ordering in a load of paints to fill gaps in my collection, and hopefully with more time, I'll be able to do them more of the attention and care they deserve.

Renatus is unlikely to receive the same treatment - as I've already said, the model is flawed. Also, as I explain in the character thread I like both the character concept and the image that was used as a basis for the appearance, but I don't think they work that well together - so, what I'm planning to do is split the two off.
S.Sgt Silva Birgen: "Good evening, we're here from the Adeptus Defenestratus."
Captain L. Rollin: "Nonsense. Never heard of it."
Birgen: "Pick a window. I'll demonstrate".

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Offline Inquisitor Cade

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Re: Marco does something
« Reply #59 on: December 14, 2009, 07:29:51 PM »
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Teflon - in this case, I used an air drying spray I use for various other things.

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