Author Topic: 2 new character ideas...  (Read 4353 times)

Offline monkhmer

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2 new character ideas...
« on: December 07, 2009, 05:34:44 AM »
First, an acolyte Inquisitor

Stats are pretty average rolls (parenthetical values indicate current value due to gear, etc.)
WS-86  BS-75  S-58(70)  T-76  I-76  Wp-86  Sg-84(114)  Nv-76  Ld-82  Speed-5(4)

SPECIAL ABILITIES-  Leader, Ambidextrous, WYRD-Lightning Storm

EQUIPMENT-  Bionics:  Highly Advanced Bionic Brain, Psi Booster, MIU
                        Armour:  Tactical Dreadnought
                        Weapons:  Paired Lightning Claws

CONCEPT-  A young wyrd psyker in the Scholastica Progenia enters the Ordo Malleus.  The young acolyte submitted to experimentation wherein significant portions of his brain are scraped away in attempt to discover where his Wyrd ability stems from within his brain.  Once the area is found it is studied extensively and the former meat brain is replaced with an advanced bionic brain surrounding the wyrd area.  The bionic brain also features a Psi Booster and an MIU which facilitates a connection between the acolyte and his armour.  In effect the bio-electricity of his wyrd ability fuels his armour and mimics (albeit slightly) the effects of the SM Black Carapace.

Ambidexterity is an added side-effect of the highly advanced bionic brain.

The acolyte has virtually no memory of his life prior to the procedure.  Perhaps this could be represented by a Wp increase or something to that effect from the Special Abilities section (Force of Will, etc.)

CONCERNS/QUESTIONS-  * Would the targetting features of the armour be applicable to Storm of Lighting?  How would Rocksteady Aim and Hipshooting be used with a "full auto" attack?

* Would the MIU link to the armour be a legitimate excuse for a 150% Initiative value bonus for detection of enemies etc., as per a SM but not quite as good?


Next, is an Adeptus Mechanicus acolyte who embraced Chaos, Dark Mechainicum I guess.  The acolyte has sought out and exposed himself to the Obliterator virus.


At this point the stat line is a bit in flux because of the concept.

CONCEPT-  Again, in flux and a bit indistinct at the moment but the basic idea is a Dark Mechainicum Obliterator who attempts to merge its form with a Combat Servitor.  Creating something like RoboCain from Robocop 2, or a more 40k  idea would be a sort of lightweight dreadnought.

As the character stands now I have modified the Adept Mech statline with the Obliterator virus modifications and various bionics but I don't feel this really represents the concept.  Any suggestions on this.

Offline MarcoSkoll

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Re: 2 new character ideas...
« Reply #1 on: December 07, 2009, 07:46:05 AM »
Your acolyte comes across as a tank.

While using the values from the back of the rulebook is a way of going about things, most people here will recommend using the guides near the start of the rulebook, and generating the stats yourself - after all, the dice don't know what your character should and shouldn't be good at.

It would be well worth reading this thread: What is the "Conclave Standard" character?

Anyway, to move on... Tactical Dreadnought armour (aka Terminator Armour) is only a Space Marine thing.

Even if I take it that you are going to use power armour (itself dodgy, as acolytes do not have the equipment of full Inquisitors), the character has no subtlety. Acolytes are the kind that are expected to learn from investigation. Seriously, does this guy REALLY go around on his investigations in heavy armour and with crazily lethal weapons?

What you have might pass as an Inquisitor for the 40k table, but not the Inquisitor table. Seriously, major toning back is needed for this character to reasonably fit into an average scenario or campaign.

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The acolyte has virtually no memory of his life prior to the procedure.
Horribly cliché and rather lazy as well.

Amnesia should not be used as an excuse for not writing background. Even if you really, really, want him to be an amnesiac, if he was a Schola Progenium student, they would have considerable records on his past.
And as an acolyte, he would naturally be inquisitive and skilled enough to try and track down his past if he had lost it (and if he isn't, then why the hell is he an acolyte?).  Indeed, it could be a potential driving force for an overall character goal...*

*Actually, I quite like that idea. A character who's been mind-scrubbed of a few years who's trying to track down what happened in them. I know they used it for Jack Harkness on Doctor Who (then totally forgot about it), but it's workable.

Quote
CONCERNS/QUESTIONS-  * Would the targetting features of the armour be applicable to Storm of Lighting?  How would Rocksteady Aim and Hipshooting be used with a "full auto" attack?
- No, said targeting features would not affect a psychic power.
- RSA would have no effect, it only benefits Semi-auto and allows one to keep aim while walking.
- Hipshooting depends on how your GM plays Full-auto. I personally apply penalties other than just range, but some people don't. (That said, I wouldn't necessarily apply those penalties to a psychic power.)

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* Would the MIU link to the armour be a legitimate excuse for a 150% Initiative value bonus for detection of enemies etc., as per a SM but not quite as good?
It could be...

... but I really don't think the character should have that kind of armour.

While the idea of an electro psyker whose power is tapped to run equipment is a workable idea, I think it needs to go in a different direction. Perhaps he gets a Power Field that instead of running of its own power runs off him. He can use it at the basic D10 setting without harm, but if he wishes he can run it at the higher energy settings, but he takes injury total for each turn he does so.

It could also possibly have immunity to haywire grenade like effects as well.

~~~~~

The second concept, while it also has the potential to be a tank (but please don't make it one as you seem to be suggesting!), is a more interesting one.

A character that had sought out the Obliterator virus could be interesting... but you HAVE to explain why they did it, and really - not just a gun platform.
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Offline Kaled

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Re: 2 new character ideas...
« Reply #2 on: December 07, 2009, 08:08:06 AM »
(itself dodgy, as acolytes do not have the equipment of full Inquisitors)
Acolytes can have whatever equipment their Inquisitor decides to give them (as well as what they manage to procure on their own), so it's possible one could have a suit of terminator armour.  Although why the Inquisitor would give it to him is another question.  As is how he would even fit in the armour of a 7'6" giant.

Are you planning to model these characters at 54mm?  If so, you'd better be rather good at modelling - otherwise, you might want to tone your ideas back somewhat.  If you're doing them at 28mm, well, these would be the kind of characters that highlight one of the disadvantages of playing at that scale - how easy it is to make innappropriately powerful characters.
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Offline MarcoSkoll

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Re: 2 new character ideas...
« Reply #3 on: December 07, 2009, 08:26:28 AM »
Acolytes can have whatever equipment their Inquisitor decides to give them (as well as what they manage to procure on their own)
Poor wording on my part. I mean it in the sense that an acolyte being seen with particularly flashy equipment is improbable, to say the least.

Bolters, maybe. Power weapons, maybe. Power armour... very unlikely.

In the end, few acolytes will be better equipped than their masters. I'll admit the exception of my namesake, who had the rarest equipment between his master and himself - but as said equipment was a rune sword discovered on the whim of fate* and as Marco was the psyker... the opposite wouldn't have made much sense.

*Although the legends of the sword would have it that, actually, it found them...
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Offline N01H3r3

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Re: 2 new character ideas...
« Reply #4 on: December 07, 2009, 08:54:42 AM »
Anyway, to move on... Tactical Dreadnought armour (aka Terminator Armour) is only a Space Marine thing.
Well, mostly. There've been a couple of Inquisitors over the years who've used it - most recently, Hector Rex (who appeared in Imperial Armour 7), who is, admittedly, a genetically-enhanced individual and all-round powerhouse, but one who apparently has earned Terminator Honours at some point in his past. Such individuals are really the exception, rather than the rule, though.
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Offline MarcoSkoll

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Re: 2 new character ideas...
« Reply #5 on: December 07, 2009, 09:16:26 AM »
Well, while I'll accept the existence of Hector Rex as a precedent, canon has long since set out Terminator Armour as exceptionally rare, and by several sources, irreplaceable.

There's not even enough to go around the Space Marine 1st companies, so the idea that there's a suit spare for a mere acolyte just doesn't work for me.
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Offline phil-o-mat

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Re: 2 new character ideas...
« Reply #6 on: December 07, 2009, 09:38:16 AM »
way to powerful!!!
mundane powerarmour is nearly impenetrable for the half the weapons used in that system, so terminatorarmour is just more impenetrable. that acolyte will outclass everything i could bring on the table, even if i would use an inquisitor lord!

Offline monkhmer

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Re: 2 new character ideas...
« Reply #7 on: December 07, 2009, 09:48:53 AM »
Regarding the acolyte Inquisitor.

1.)  Ordo Malleus Inquisitor's often have more serious wargear don't they?  Afterall, their Chamber Militant is the Grey Knights the toughest of all the SM Chapters.  They fight The Great Enemy of The Imperium. 
2.)  Regarding amnesia from brain replacement.  Perhaps a better idea would be to have the character remember the past but be completely unemotional towards it and incapable of relating with it.  Perhaps a lack of emotion in general is implied.  Indeed I could and should ( and might ^_^ ) write a suitable background for the character.


Regarding the Dark Mechanicum Obliterator.

1.)  A suitable background story would indeed be fun to write and I'll probably be more inclined to write this one.
2.)  What about the stats for the Combat Servitor?  Maybe an actual robot would be better.  I imagine this character would view it as a purer form, much closer to the Omnissiah than the typical arcano-cyborg Obliterator SM.

Perhaps he and some of his companions heard rumors of the Obliterator virus and fabricated evidence of an STC near the Eye of Terror.  Once within vicinity of the Eye they mutinied and searched for the virus until the found it...

Regarding Nerf-tastic characters...

I have been interested in 40k for a number of years.  Since 1993 at least, I love the milieu and consider myself an avid reader of the fiction.  I have seen it diversify and deepen.  I think the 40k franchise will replace the Star Wars franchise as the world's favorite SF within 10 years. 

I have also played a number of RPGs and as one grows to love any given RPG system one definitely develops a fondness for quirky underpowered characters that survive against all odds.  It makes one really appreciate the game I think.  You actually play to have fun as opposed to conquering willy-nilly and grabbing all the loot.  Emphasizing one over the other often gets to be boring fairly quickly, at least to me.

What I see in Inquisitor is the closest thing to the original Rogue Trader rules without the overly complicated system of Dark Heresy or the newest incarnation of Rogue Trader.  In the original Rogue Trader my friends and I played a gamut of characters from weak to powerful.  When the Realm of Chaos supplements came out we incorporated them as well.  What makes the 40k universe so great is that it is SO very wide open... if you prefer to limit yourself to a nerfed out dirt-scratcher then by all means do so.  I've done it before and it can be fun.  But don't disparage someone who looks at the game from a different angle... that's just rude and narrow-minded.

So, to sum up what I think I'm getting at... I appreciate that many of you on this board may have played Inquisitor longer than I (and may enjoy it moreso because you are avid modelers).  As such you may feel you have a more "refined" taste of what Inquisitor is meant to be.  But, some of your comments are not constructive and border on insulting.

Responses to this one haven't been terribly elitist... yet...   ;D

Thanks for your input all the same.  I'll try not to be so thin-skinned but I just had to get that off my chest.   ;)

Offline Adlan

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Re: 2 new character ideas...
« Reply #8 on: December 07, 2009, 10:04:22 AM »
We don't want you to play a "nerfed out dirt-scratcher" we're letting you know what the boards experiance has found, which is that certain equipment, stats, skills and combination thereof, make a boring game, and in general, being too good at stuff is worse than being average.

If you converted this character at 54mm, I'd be more than happy to play it. Even with Armour  have no hope of denting and no background story. But I probably wouldn't want to play it a second time, no matter how cool the model was.

Now, you gaming group's power level might be higher than the conclave average, so there may well be people running round with lascannon's and multimelta's to take out your tactical dreadnought. But, as I said, such escalation of power generally leads to a rather dull game, and little story element to it.

If you want to play inquisitor as just a combat game, thats cool, but I think you're missing out on the best bit of inquisitor, the cinematic story elements are what makes the game for me. As a fan of the setting, surely you'll understand? Inquisitor isn't about tactical dreadnought armour, or being the toughest bod on the board, it's about the battle for the emperoror's soul, dark conflicts in the bowls of great library's over dusty tomes, or fratricide to prevent another world falling to the heretics.

The Dark Mechanicum Obliterator could be a really cool character, Especially in the early/middle stages of the infection, desperately trying to slow it so he has 'more time to study it'. Maybe his sponsors higher in the mechanicus don't want to give him more time, and so he must search in secre ways to prolong his 'research'

Offline MarcoSkoll

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Re: 2 new character ideas...
« Reply #9 on: December 07, 2009, 02:54:32 PM »
But don't disparage someone who looks at the game from a different angle... that's just rude and narrow-minded.
Hey, if you're going to come here and ask for feedback, then you can't really complain if that feedback is negative.

To counter-counter, I don't play "nerfed-out dirt scratcher" characters. I play characters that make sense for the game.

Inquisitor Skoll doesn't carry a bolter, he's not clad in power armour and he's only a modest swordsman - but if he walks into a bar trying to find a contact, the patrons don't flee before him. Few would even pay him a second glance, and even if they did, they still wouldn't see anything that gave him away as an Inquisitor.

That kind of character makes sense for the Inquisitor game. A character who could flatten a battletank does not, and I would very heavily penalise such a character on the campaign side of things.

Around here, we take it (not entirely unreasonably) that members here are more interested in an entertaining narrative than winning. And for that reason, most members here play "Dark Shadows Inquisitors", not "Battlefield Inquisitors".

Yes, we are in the habit of talking down "Battlefield" characters, but if you're looking for feedback from the Conclave, that's the kind of feedback you're going to get. So, if you want positive feedback on your powered armoured tanks, this isn't a great place to come fishing for compliments.

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Ordo Malleus Inquisitor's often have more serious wargear don't they?
Serious wargear, yes.

Giving an novice a legendary and irreplaceable suit of armour that's unnecessarily thick for their purposes and which is made only in Space Marine size? I wouldn't think so.
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Offline Kaled

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Re: 2 new character ideas...
« Reply #10 on: December 07, 2009, 03:34:04 PM »
The thing is that different games are good at portraying different things - you wouldn't use Epic for a squad based skirmish, or Necromunda for Titan vs Titan battles. Similarly Inquisitor works best with characters who are relatively 'low powered' - even marines push the system to it's limit; and your characters are likewise approaching the upper limit of what the game can cope with.

Of course you can approach the game from the angle of taking more powerful characters, but don't be surprised if some of the game mechanics fall down somewhat...

EDIT: Going back to the original concepts, a wyrd who has been experimented on to such an extreme is an interesting idea, it's just the terminator armour that's a bit of a stretch - the basic concept is good though.  The same with the obliterator/tech-priest - the concept is fine to a point, but you risk creating a character that can't be properly represented by the system.
« Last Edit: December 07, 2009, 11:52:14 PM by Kaled »
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Offline precinctomega

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Re: 2 new character ideas...
« Reply #11 on: December 08, 2009, 01:36:17 PM »
Quote
Ordo Malleus Inquisitor's often have more serious wargear don't they?  Afterall, their Chamber Militant is the Grey Knights the toughest of all the SM Chapters.  They fight The Great Enemy of The Imperium.

Indeed they do.  The Ordo Malleus is generally the most militant of the three Ordos Majoris and, as such, can call upon the meatiest resources when it comes to putting the slap down on the daemonic.

However, these resources are thinly spread and precious, just like the might of the Grey Knights: it must be reserved for those occasions on which it can do the most damage and have the greatest effect.  An Inquisitor Lord leading a charge into the heart of a major daemonic incursion - i.e. fighting a game of 40k or EPIC - could easily be expected to appear in power armour at the very least and, in exceptional cases, where the hero in question is a figure of particular renown who spends his entire life at the sharp end of the battle against the Enemy Beyond, terminator armour might even be seen.

Equipping an acolyte with this equipment in order to pursue tangential leads in the grey half-light and hidden pathways of the Battle for the Emperor's Soul...  Well, far be it from me to suggest that it wouldn't happen.  Part of the joy of Inquisitor is that anything is possible.  But, well, read through the paragraph above again and come to your own decision.

Gameplay-wise, terminator armour will make the character utterly untouchable without the use of battlefield technology, such as a lascannon or multimelta.  But it will also make the character unwieldy, clumsy, slow, visible and incapable of doing simple investigative tasks like, say, entering a bar through a low door.

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Regarding the Dark Mechanicum Obliterator

I assume you've read the relevant article?

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Regarding Nerf-tastic characters...

When we give you our opinions, first, remember that you did ask for them.  Second, remember that our objective in sharing our opinions is not to impose some sort of cultural-enforcement that dictates how other people play "our" game.  Rather, it is the distilled wisdom of several hundred games of Inquisitor through which we have learned what constitutes a "fun" game and what doesn't.

I remember at a campaign day at Warhammer World taking three characters, one of which was a cold-eyed assassin and the other a killer sniper.  Their skills and background made perfect sense as they had been chosen and trained to be Sicarius Operatives, able to face Officio Assassins on equal terms, almost.  That the third character, the Inquisitor, should choose them likewise made perfect sense, because they were his most able agents, heading into a dangerous situation where conflict was extremely likely.

And yet, despite all that, I wish I'd not taken them.  They were so well tuned to their particular roles that they pretty much steam-rollered everyone that faced them and were nearly impossible to even hit, let alone wound, because of their particular tactical dispositions.

I often like to use the example of John McClane in Die Hard.  It was John's weaknesses that made the character interesting and whilst his strengths were adequate to the desperate challenge facing him, they were excessive.  If you replaced John McClane with, say, Clark Kent, then the film would have lasted all of five minutes and most of that would have been the time it took Clark to become Superman.  His abilities so far outstrip the demands of the challenge that the story isn't interesting.

So, coming back to the question of "nerfed" characters...

If you want to run a character in Terminator Armour with stellar fighting skills, then that's fine: but he needs to be pitched to the right level of challenge.  A nest of genestealers, say, or a daemonic cabal, would be ideal.  But if you plan to use such a character in the role of a "typical" character, facing off against opposing characters to fight over an abstract objective such as a hidden cache, a useful informant or a wanted criminal, then you will find that he is the Superman in the Towering Inferno - it sounds interesting but doesn't last long and isn't much fun.

R.

Offline MarcoSkoll

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Re: 2 new character ideas...
« Reply #12 on: December 08, 2009, 03:23:46 PM »
Gameplay-wise, terminator armour will make the character utterly untouchable without the use of battlefield technology, such as a lascannon or multimelta.
Assuming AV 15, a typical load-out for the kind of warband I use would maybe include two or three weapons which had the potential to punch through that armour (either due to raw damage, or armour piercing abilities). Even then, for the most part, those weapons would bounce off.

... and a lot of that is only because of the 3D6 based rifles and shotguns of the RIA. Anyone using LRB standard weapons would struggle much more.

This is ignoring the potential weakpoint of the head, which assuming less or no armour would allow more weapons a chance - but that 96-00 hit band (damn, I'm so used to doing hit location on a D20 these days) is elusive.
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Offline Inquisitor Cade

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Re: 2 new character ideas...
« Reply #13 on: December 08, 2009, 07:58:36 PM »
Quote
But don't disparage someone who looks at the game from a different angle... that's just rude and narrow-minded.

In my opinion, the appropriate Ws for an acolyte who trained in a scola, but since has had little focus on close combat, has shown no special aptitude for it but for whom it is not a particular weakness either and who has since had his brain replaced such that muscle memory (such as handedness) is lost would be, barring exterraneous circumstances, about 45.

Therefore I don't think 86 is appropriate.

If this constitutes an offesive answer because I'm not taking your 'angle' into accout then our 'angles' are totaly incompatable so I won't bother you with any more feed back.
I do wonder what you wanted from us though is any dissagreement with how you have made the character is 'narrow minded'.

I'm sorry if you feel disparaged. Be sure that any disparaging that is going on is focused on the character, and certainly not against you. Many of us, myself certainly, approached the game with a powercharacter concept before we learned better.
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Offline MarcoSkoll

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Re: 2 new character ideas...
« Reply #14 on: December 08, 2009, 08:14:41 PM »
Many of us, myself certainly, approached the game with a powercharacter concept before we learned better.
I probably shouldn't even admit to the horrors that were my first warbands. I recall an Inquisitor Lord wielding a Storm Bolter loaded with all Kraken rounds, and a Space Marine Chaplain whose weapon of choice was a meltagun.

It was some point last year that I found the character sheets again and had to exorcise them because of how evil they were. I was 12 when I wrote them though, and I hadn't quite got the point of the game yet.

Either way, I wouldn't go back to that style of gaming for the world.
S.Sgt Silva Birgen: "Good evening, we're here from the Adeptus Defenestratus."
Captain L. Rollin: "Nonsense. Never heard of it."
Birgen: "Pick a window. I'll demonstrate".

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