[Inquisitor Cade]

My take on the acolyte thing was that it varied form Inquisitor to Inquisitor. Some might select acolytes only from their preexisting staff, but I think the majoroty will recruit someone they find with sufficient mental capabilities directly into the role of Acolyte, and if they turn out to be less promising than they first appeared will be reassigned to being an adviser, permenant warband member, servitor, corpse or anything else, again depending on the Inquisitor and what talent the ex-acolyte does possess.

[MarcoSkoll]

In answer to the first point: I hesitate to describe him as badass. He simply kills people from a distance, where most of them can't do anything about it.

I take it that you personally aren't a skilled swordsman, expert shot, lightning fast combatant, very well educated, and strong-willed type sporting all kinds of different weapons and trinkets.
That's what I mean when I say badass version - even if you might interpret the character as perhaps not all that badass by the game's standards, a self-import will almost certainly be more badass than its author.

To the second: I may rejig it so that instead of becoming an Acolyte straight away, he simply gets taken on for observation, then gets promoted at a much later date.

That's the way I go with it. More on this one in my response to Cade's post further down.

To the third point: Would you say that if he was discovered at the age of 25, a reasonable promotion age would be around 38?

Depends somewhat on when his master decided he was ready, and whether other Inquisitors would second/third his promotion. (The latter part of course is one of the bigger limiters on an Inquisitor's age. With their own reputations at stake, few Inquisitors will back a candidate who looks like they've only recently escaped adolescence.)

But those ages are certainly within the bounds of possibility.

As a general rule, I'd say that a candidate would have to be at least into adulthood to be mature enough to be either trained or assessed as suitable for training as an acolyte* - and ideally no less than early 20s, as you want to be really sure that they're well clear of the personality changes puberty can bring.
Training will then be in the range of 10 to 20 years, depending on the acolyte's ability to learn, and their master's approach to training.

Of course, the last paragraph is just my personal opinion, but I think it's justifiable opinion.

...but I think the majority will recruit someone they find with sufficient mental capabilities directly into the role of Acolyte

Why do it that way?

If you're looking at someone who looks like they could have potential as an acolyte, they've got to be handy to have around anyway. So, it's easy enough to take them on as a useful aide, and then you've got more time to properly assess whether they're really up to the job.

I really can't see the decision to take on an acolyte being a quick one. You might go on instinct as to whether it's worth assessing this kid further, but that's as far as I can see any quick summing up of an individual going.
Based on some backgrounds, you could get the idea that Inquisitors will recruit people whose name they hardly know as acolytes, and that doesn't work for me.

If you want to have direct recruitment to acolytes as a "majority" in your backgrounds, I can't stop you, but don't expect me to do it.

[Alyster Wick]

Quote
To the third point: Would you say that if he was discovered at the age of 25, a reasonable promotion age would be around 38?

Depends somewhat on when his master decided he was ready, and whether other Inquisitors would second/third his promotion. (The latter part of course is one of the bigger limiters on an Inquisitor's age. With their own reputations at stake, few Inquisitors will back a candidate who looks like they've only recently escaped adolescence.)

But those ages are certainly within the bounds of possibility.

I personally tend to avoid naming specific ages simply because it's such a stretch for us as gamers to connect with the characters we create.  Sure 60 may be the new 20, but when you want a youngish Inquisitor (let's use Covenant as an example) it is incredibly difficult to envision an Inquisitor who should by all rights be in the later part of his first century as relatively young.  I know there are some out there who will disagree with me on this and say that they personally have no problem doing it, but I often times (this isn't a hard and fast rule) use relative words to describe age as it pertains to youth.  I certainly have my share of more specifically named characters, but if your trouble is visualizing the character you want at an appropriate age then by all means be vague.

...but I think the majority will recruit someone they find with sufficient mental capabilities directly into the role of Acolyte

Why do it that way?

Though this should be no means be abused, I think the simple answer to the question of "why do it that way" is because not all Inquisitors are created equal.  There are endless instances I've seen in which managerial decisions are made that go contrary to traditional common sense.  In some cases there is a justification ("this fresh college grad is being put in charge of X department because they've been trained in this new work style which they will transfer to folks who've been working here for 20 years) and this can have merit, but other times odd promotions occur because of nepotism or plain incompetence. While most of our Inquisitors don't fit this profile, there are certainly those who do. 

A dying hardliner may promote his oafish acolyte (who he had previously decided would never be Inquisitorial material) because he is close to the end of his life and despite his reservations believes that his acolyte will at the very least carry his Master's final wishes.  An otherwise intelligent and cautious Inquisitor (in a weak moment) elevates an unqualified individual who can then perpetuate his own lineage of poor Inquisitors.

I'm not meaning to disagree with you Marco, and I am 100% on the same page in that faaaar too many characters are the 1 in a million wonders who instantly become proteges of an Inquisitor who just so happens to see them at their best moment.  In fact I'm incorporating a lot of your opinions on this subject (since I've notice them cross a few threads) into a couple warbands I'm working on and I think it's helped flesh them out immeasurably (a character previously labeled an acolyte has been elevated somewhat and turned into my Inquisitor's right hand man who oversees the training of his acolytes while never aspiring to become an Inquisitor himself).  That said, I think scenarios like the one I just mentioned could help add personality to an otherwise cookie-cutter warband (while also fleshing out the generic "wise master" who appears in everyone's stories).

Sorry, somewhat off topic, I know.  Regardless, I love Cordatus increasingly for the craven and sadistic Inquisitor that he is.  There are so many Inquisitors similar to him who just go around destroying planets left and right.  It's good to see a fledgling Inquisitor who does this on a smaller scale.  Perhaps he'll grow into that role one day? (the planet killer)

[Inquisitor Cade]

If you want to have direct recruitment to acolytes as a "majority" in your backgrounds, I can't stop you, but don't expect me to do it.

Well in my case this is how it turns out, as my most important character, Inquisitor Lord Umbrae is reaching the limit of rejuve and has decided that it is time to look to the next generation, so he spends al lot of his time going round Scola Progeni and other sources of talent, and recruiting the best of the best as Acolytes. Not that he could be accussed of neglecting his duties as an Inquisitor, he has a list of achievements longer than a hive tyrants arm, and now he sends his senior Acolytes go on missions so actually achieves more than he could by himself.

But this isn't typical Inquisitoral procedure. Maybe I was hasty when I said 'majoroty'.

[Metellus]

In answer to the first point: I hesitate to describe him as badass. He simply kills people from a distance, where most of them can't do anything about it.

I take it that you personally aren't a skilled swordsman, expert shot, lightning fast combatant, very well educated, and strong-willed type sporting all kinds of different weapons and trinkets.

I think of myself as very well educated
On a more serious note, one of the theories I've heard regarding self-imports is that in the 40kverse, one must remember several things:
1. Life is much tougher, therefore the people will (in most cases) be tougher, both physically and mentally, in order to survive.
2. Training in the use of weapons etc is much easier to come by.
3. For the upper classes and military, rare weaponry/armour/etc is not too hard to acquire (at least for low level things like mesh armour and compact revolvers).
4. In a galaxy of a million Imperial worlds, at least a quarter of which are hive worlds, the vast population means that sooner or later you're pretty much guaranteed to find someone who's a cut above the rest sooner or later.
Also, bear in mind that in current timeline terms, they guy's several times as old as me, so he'll have had a lot more time to train and such.
Just my opinion

Sorry, somewhat off topic, I know.  Regardless, I love Cordatus increasingly for the craven and sadistic Inquisitor that he is.  There are so many Inquisitors similar to him who just go around destroying planets left and right.  It's good to see a fledgling Inquisitor who does this on a smaller scale.  Perhaps he'll grow into that role one day? (the planet killer)

Perfectly fine to go off topic, I'm finding the whole Acolyte quandary quite interesting.
And as to the planet-destroying thing, watch this space; his background's nearly finished

[DapperAnarchist]

A dying hardliner may promote his oafish acolyte (who he had previously decided would never be Inquisitorial material) because he is close to the end of his life and despite his reservations believes that his acolyte will at the very least carry his Master's final wishes.  An otherwise intelligent and cautious Inquisitor (in a weak moment) elevates an unqualified individual who can then perpetuate his own lineage of poor Inquisitors.

Doesn't the Thorian Sourcebook say that Inquisitor are not appointed by their masters, but by Conclave, usually by the approval of three Inquisitor, one of whom may be the master, and one of whom should be an Inquisitor Lord?

[Alyster Wick]

Doesn't the Thorian Sourcebook say that Inquisitor are not appointed by their masters, but by Conclave, usually by the approval of three Inquisitor, one of whom may be the master, and one of whom should be an Inquisitor Lord?

I'm 99% sure a Lord Inquisitor can appoint someone as an inquisitor by themselves, if you aren't a Lord then you'd need a Conclave to approve.  Regardless, it's very likely that many of these are rubber stamp proceedings.  Though in our Inquisitor games Inquisitors cross paths quite often it is very possible that an Inquisitor could go for years without interacting with a fellow Inquisitor.  As such it's even more likely that the Inquisitors on the Conclave may differ to their trusted peer when showing up to a conclave to promote a member.  Or if you've been in the business long enough you're sure to have favors you can call in. 

What's more, the Imperium of man is large, and paperwork is complicated/gets lost.  I had one player who was a rouge Inquisitor who had killed his master after being informed that he would not be suggested for promotion and went around using his seal.  Sure he'd likely be caught sooner or later, but there are not many (save other Inquisitors) who would even be aware enough to accuse the individual.  Even to relatively high ranking Imperial officials he could explain his choice of seal as a tribute to his late master, if they started getting pushy because the internal identification device (do these exist? I think they do) says it belongs to his master, how many people are going to argue with an Inquisitor threatening Exterminatus?

I use a fanciful example (the character in question never amassed too much power or influence because the jig was always up sooner or later) but the bottom line is that in an Imperium this large I'm sure an enterprising Inquisitor could get around the few checks and balances that exist in the system.

[MarcoSkoll]

I think of myself as very well educated

Yeah, but probably not Sg 78 well educated.

To give an example from my own collection, Inquisitor Lyra Rhodes is 98 years old. Been an Inquisitor for 41 years, was an acolyte for 22 years before that, and earned herself a Doctorate prior to being taken into Inquisitorial service. If IQ tests existed in the 41st millennium, she'd earn herself something in the range of 160. In short, she's well blessed with education, experience and intelligence.
For that list of qualifications, she gets Sg 81*. Bit higher than 78 of course, but it gives you an idea of what I take Sg values of around 80 to mean.
*Before anyone comments, yes, it has been changed since I posted her profile in December.

Of course, if you near meet those criteria, then that's fair enough, but to me, Sg 78 represents a combination of smarts and schooling that isn't going to come around very often in our world.

On a more serious note, one of the theories I've heard regarding self-imports is that in the 40kverse, one must remember several things

... again, he may not be more than slightly badass (or even that unusual) by 40k standards. But compared to the real you, he almost certainly is more of a badass.

Evidently you want to interpret "badass version of yourself" differently to how I do. Whatever you think it means, what it means to me is "semi-humourous shorthand to say more skilled than the person it's based on".

I personally tend to avoid naming specific ages simply because it's such a stretch for us as gamers to connect with the characters we create.  Sure 60 may be the new 20, but when you want a youngish Inquisitor (let's use Covenant as an example) it is incredibly difficult to envision an Inquisitor who should by all rights be in the later part of his first century as relatively young.

I wouldn't say that's really a problem. They just have a different cultural perception of age. Doesn't mean you can't put numbers on it, just means you'll need to use bigger numbers.
To them, the above mentioned Lyra Rhodes' age of 98 probably means about the same as an age of ~38 would mean to an average westerner... not that she necessarily acts it all the time! Obviously, she's much more learned and mature than someone in their late thirties, but that's merely how she's perceived in their world. 

On a slight aside, I think the fact that rejuvenat can keep people physically in their early adulthood probably contributes to people staying more "youthful" in how they act. You act the age you feel, not necessarily the age you are, and if your body stays young, you're more likely to feel young. Which is why 100 year old Inquisitors don't act like your average centenarian - aside from the fact they're not hampered by an aged and frail body, they simply don't feel that old.

Though this should be no means be abused, I think the simple answer to the question of "why do it that way" is because not all Inquisitors are created equal.  There are endless instances I've seen in which managerial decisions are made that go contrary to traditional common sense.

Yeah, some Inquisitors will make very questionable decisions. However, what I'm referring to is an Inquisitor who actually possesses the trait of common sense. While there are certainly Inquisitors who make stupid decisions and choices, I think most would take at least a moderately sensible approach to recruitment of their students.

...so he spends a lot of his time going round Scola Progeni and other sources of talent, and recruiting the best of the best as Acolytes.

Not quite the same as "no assessment". If you're recruiting from the Schola Progenium, you've got a whole heap of records and reports to work from. You'd probably want to at least corroborate that in person, but a decade or more of paperwork is hardly a bad basis to use for such a decision.

[Alyster Wick]

I wouldn't say that's really a problem. They just have a different cultural perception of age. Doesn't mean you can't put numbers on it, just means you'll need to use bigger numbers.

I guess where I run in to problems personally is that not all Imperial citizens have access to the resources that Inquisitors do so a vast majority of the Imperial population ages with only a select few aging less rapidly.  I could be completely wrong in this, perhaps it's more widespread and Imperial Guardsmen are given age treatment so that we can keep our best of the best better for longer.  Regardless, I've been refining the fluff on a few of my characters recently (including quite a few yesterday) and have been mentioning specific times and so I suppose my whole point is null and void, but while we're on the subject does anyone know how widespread tech is to keep humans younger?

Yeah, some Inquisitors will make very questionable decisions. However, what I'm referring to is an Inquisitor who actually possesses the trait of common sense. While there are certainly Inquisitors who make stupid decisions and choices, I think most would take at least a moderately sensible approach to recruitment of their students.

Totally agree with you, just playing devil's advocate because I think having backgrounds with buffoonish Inquisitors would be interesting (of course no one wants to role play a simpleton, kind of defeats the whole purpose of roleplay).

[MarcoSkoll]

I guess where I run in to problems personally is that not all Imperial citizens have access to the resources that Inquisitors do so a vast majority of the Imperial population ages with only a select few aging less rapidly.

Humans haven't always been able to live for the 70+ years that is pretty commonplace today. In the Bronze age, the average lifespan was 18 years. Yes, eighteen. Middle ages, average lifespan was about 25 and in the early 20th century, 40 was pretty good going.

Even today, in parts of Africa, the average life expectancy is in the 30s and low 40s.
My father is 57 - so, if you will, imagine how he would be viewed in Swaziland, where life expectancy has been estimated between 31-39 years.
Now take it further. My grandmother is 77 - about twice their average life expectancy. My other grandmother is 91, and her mother lived to 103.

See where I'm going with this? We're not talking about something that doesn't exist today. Not all humans have access to the technologies that extend life (namely, good medical care, no food shortages and social support systems).
The only differences are that in the Imperium, the two cultures of long-lived and shorter-lived people co-exist much more closely, and that there's a greater difference between the expected lifespans.

It's a cultural thing. While a 100 year-old Inquisitor would be taken as old by the average Imperial citizen, but rather young by the standards of Imperial nobility. Same as how a 50 year old would be considered old in areas of Africa, but only average-ish by western standards.

[Flinty]

does anyone know how widespread tech is to keep humans younger?

I dont suppose the standard fluff mentions anything that isnt contradicted in another source. I personally cant see rejuve treatments being available to just anyone unless:

a) They hold an important/influential position or are deemed useful by someone who does
b) They can pay

Im assuming rejuve is the ''best'' option as it (presumably) rejuvinates rather than relying on surgical implants, augmentations or replacements - i.e. you get to keep you own bits and look as young as you were (or possibly younger?) when you had the jab/infusion or whatever. However, Im sure people have thier own personal choice of youngifying technology, informed by ethics, aesthetics, availability and finances.

Servants of the Imperium/Omnissiah may have access to rejuve depending on thier usefullness or political weight, and anyone else can get it for hard cash. Which means there must be a blackmarket and doses/treatments which perhaps do not have the expected effects due to being concocted in someones bathtub....

I assume the same goes for bionics/augmentations - position or cash - although they may be more freely available as IG officers, NCO's, lower level Ad Mech and presumably an innumerable host of servitors of all sorts sem to be fitted with them.  As series of mechanical devices, I cant see why the odd forge world or two dosen't mass produce them by the crap load - never mind whats made outside of the Ad Mech or by individuals - hence the poor, avaerage and advanced standards?

I would also imagine limbs and essential organs, eyes, hearts, lungs etc are fairly widespread, simply as those are the things that are commonly damaged or fail  during an individuals ''standard'' lifetime, and so there would be a huge demand across the entire human population.

 It may be there are all sorts of citizens who look and act 150, kept alive only by mechanical means they have aquired over the years; whereas the possibly ancient Noble or Tech Priest may be 750 years old,  but has access to better parts and occasional upgrades throughout thier existence, and so can hop about and shoot people on the tabletop.

Then there is access to/use of vat grown organs and possibly whole bodies......Inquisitors who are just a head in a box 

[Inquisitor Cade]

Based on the things I've read, I estimate 500 to be the approximate limit that a human life can be extended to at present (as in it was longer before technology's became lost etc.) with the exception of space marines, who can live maybe three times this or other people who are altered so much that their humanity is arguable.

I make this post because these are, as I say, estimates, and hopfullf if anyone knows better they can correct me. I have a character who is supposed to be reaching the end of his rejuvinated life, so if I'm wide of the mark his age could be a major inconsistancy.

[MarcoSkoll]

Based on the things I've read, I estimate 500 to be the approximate limit that a human life can be extended to at present

That's pretty much my guess.
Some members of the AdMech might well live longer (but at that point, they're pretty much an augmented and chemical soaked brain in a mechanical body) and sorcery could allow even longer, but as far as basic rejuvenat, eventually it has a limit - which I take to be about 500.

Really really important individuals might get access to really rare technologies that could make them last longer... but here's another idea.

I've been reminded of the Schwarzenegger film "The 6th day". Those who have seen it will know that there's a basic principle of cloning beloved pets, and implanting the memories of the dying "original" (which itself might be a clone of an earlier version), so that you can have essentially the same pet for many many decades - of course, the actual plot goes further than that, but I won't spoil it in case there's anyone who wants to watch it (not that it's a great film).

But as the idea turns up quite often in sci-fi, you're probably familiar with the idea of "implanting memories into a clone" from elsewhere.

With the Imperium's memory engram and cloning technologies, I figure that the idea could probably exist in the 40k universe. If someone is too important to let die, clone a fresh body, and implant the memories of the older version into them. Sure, it won't be exactly the same person, but it'll act like it is (if you get it right, they might even believe they're the same person).

But, that might well be against Imperial law or something (human cloning is considered illegal in "the 6th day" film) - still, probably a possibility. I could see some hereteks doing that kind of thing.

[Alyster Wick]

But as the idea turns up quite often in sci-fi, you're probably familiar with the idea of "implanting memories into a clone" from elsewhere.

To take this concept one step further, you could have a VIP with a mechanical brain who just transfers the brain between cloned bodies for added continuity. 

I just got a concept in my head of an ancient ruler of a kingdom of freaks who has fathered every child for generations by utilizing this means of elongating his life.  Too many ideas, not enough time

[MarcoSkoll]

To take this concept one step further, you could have a VIP with a mechanical brain who just transfers the brain between cloned bodies for added continuity.

Eventually, even if the rest of the body is up to living, a brain will reach a limit. We don't know what this limit is, but given the onset of senility, alzheimer's and other such stuff in humans even today, there are probably even more problems that can crop up after a couple of hundred years.
Rejuve can presumably fix this to some extent, and enough augmetics can probably fix forms of memory loss but eventually, you'll probably need to just start over with a new brain. Unless of course it's a completely mechanical brain, and that would be even more an act of heretek.

It might not be the choice of the person themselves, but as far as preserving someone's skills, continuity is not necessary - just the resemblance of it.

Actually, I'm half surprised the idea doesn't exist more often in the 40k universe. I know there is the idea that cloning whole humans has problems (see the Afriel strain regiments, made up of clones of Imperial heroes - and they supposedly suffer very bad luck), but if someone is important enough...
For that matter, I'm also somewhat surprised that there aren't just outright replicas of certain figures. I could see a heretical Techpriest who had cloned themselves so they could advance on the quest for knowledge in two (or more!) paths at once.

It would also be an excellent excuse for why a character just won't die - they did, this is just a clone. Not that that distinction would be a particular comfort to you when you've got to try and deal with them.

Actually, I quite like that idea. I can see a radical Inquisitor who's convinced that his work is too important to end with his death, but too confidential to be trusted to anyone but him. So he keeps cloning himself, and transferring his memory implants from body to body so that his next version may continue in his stead.