Conversion Field Question

[Brother_Brimstone]

Hi, I just wanted to ask a quick question regarding conversion fields. After the Spring Clave i realised that Zophar dies. A lot. For those of you who weren't there, I don't mean 'out of action' i mean 'dead, dead, dead'. I realised that this was due to his T of 42 and only having flak armour on all locations. He does have a Resurrection swrod, but True Grit does little for you when you're dead! (although it does give me a fluff reason for why he won't stay down).

Anyway, i didn't particularly want to alter his stats or armour (not for laziness but because i love the model as is and i think his stats represent his fluff well), but i did want to reduce his mortality rate. I'm by no means a power gamer, but in one game he died in the first round of combat and in two he died without even entering combat! It just reduces the fun of a game knowing that your character will die the second someone decides to attack him. I, as much as anyone, enjoy the fact that i know my character is not invincible and should avoid combat as far as possible, but even on the day people commented that it was unusual that a charcter should die so much.

So, to conclude my rambling, i suppose my question would be, how rare are conversion fields? Would it be reasonable to suppose that a character as notorious and well connected as Sarthuul could get one?

I hope this is the right section of the forum to ask, but i figured because my motives were to improve playability rather than purely speculate about fluff, this would be the right place to ask.

All help appreciated.

[Alyster Wick]

This is pure speculation, but I'd look at how you RP your character.  If he isn't very tough and he's an Inquisitor then he should know to stay out of combat and have others fight for him, taking a more advisory role.  If he insists on being more of a fighter, then I'd say he'd either A) train more and get tougher or B) have a conversion field. 

I don't recall seeing Zophar's back story, but I think I saw a bit in a battle report that he's controlled by the sword he carries or something?  You could also take a look at some of the daemonic properties if that's the case and adapt an ability from there (saying that his body is so tainted from constant exposure to the sword that it takes on X attributes). 

Other than that, there did seem to be some nasty pieces of kit in play based on the Conclave pics I've browsed through.  Perhaps it was just the results of everyone's powerful pet Inquisitor and special gimmicks being in play?  I mean if you're going to unveil something awesome that you've been working on at an event then odds are it isn't going to be a mutant with a bad leg...

[MarcoSkoll]

A good place to start here is the Equipment rarity section near the back of the rulebook, where conversion fields are listed as Exotic.

Now, it depends on how exactly you want to quantify the different rarities, but I roughly quantify how I see them in the Revised Armoury - although I did add in the Uncommon rarity to provide a bit more difference between "pretty much anyone can get this easily" and "something that even people with good connections have to work a bit to get".

Anyway, in the RIA, Exotic is taken as being the kind of thing that you might expect to see issued to important figures such as commanders, but which wouldn't be handed out to rank and file - except on a special basis.

For a manipulative daemonhost with good connections it's pretty reasonable to assume they could get hold of one - or at least some other field*. It wouldn't be hard to argue that he had killed some head honcho at some time in the past who had been issued with one.

*For example, I use Inquisitor Rhodes with a 2D6 forcefield - but it's not a conversion field because:
a) I prefer the idea of her using a more subtle field that can go unnoticed even as it's doing its job
b) testing for those flashes can really stall the game.

An Initiative test for every character looking at the field for nearly half of shots? Takes up a bit of time.
It can also make it a bit uninteresting for the other players who have half their models flailing around blind. Sure, Photon Flash flares are fine as equipment in their own right, but in those cases, they're in small numbers and have to be actively used. There's a difference between blinding your opponent for two actions and just having it happen for free because he shot at you.

Alternatively, there are two solutions which might solve that issue.
- Increase the flash requirement. If it only flashes on 10 or above, that's a big reduction in the number of tests and the effect they have on the game.
- And this is one I haven't tried yet...  Only the character who triggered the flash has to test. In such a circumstance, it'd be assumed that only they're looking directly enough at it to be blinded. I'd probably use this in combination with the above though.

Refractor fields have their uses too. Personally, I rule they can be turned off - if off, they don't confer the forcefield, but nor do they increase the chances of being spotted. And as far as that goes... DOUBLE CHANCE? I chose to swap it for a +20% bonus to being spotted. That's quite enough to give them problems.

Anyway, there's a short treatise on force fields and my opinions on possible improvements to their rules.

[precinctomega]

Conversion shields are common among the upper echelons of Imperial nobility.  The effect of converting a shot's kinetic energy to light energy is valuable against snipers, as it impedes the chances of a second shot.  They are less popular with military commanders due to the effect of giving away the wearer's location in a target-rich environment.  Such figures tend to favour the refractor field which, whilst less effective, is somewhat more stealthy.

The displacer field is rarely seen not only because of its technological complexity, but also because its workings mean moving the wearer momentarily through the Warp: something no sane Imperial citizen would welcome, but which a cunning daemonhost might easily be prepared to countenance.

R.

[Brother_Brimstone]

@ Wick - I know what you are saying and can empathise with your point - some people take characters into combat who just aren't combat characters, but at the Clave, Zophar neither fired a single shot not swung his sword once. In one game a zealous inquisitor saw him and just flamed him before he could even run away, in another a space marine picked up his bodyguard (note bodyguard; Zophar DOES have his lackeys do the fighting - I RP him mostly to use his psyker's abilities) and threw him at zophar, instantly killing Zophar. In the other game, Zophar attempted to mind control someone who then turned around and shot him in the head). In none of those games did i willing enter a fight, or even fight at all. And that's my point. Zophar dies before he can even run away from battle, and unless I meta-game and actively say 'zophar won't turn a corner because there might be someone there and he might die' there is little i can do to prevent it. A conversion field was what I hoped might solve this issue somewhat.

@ Marco - I can see what you are saying about the photon flash being a bit clunky, rules wise, and i think i may well say that Willie fiddled with the field to deactivate the flash at Zophar's request (perhaps so that his position isn't so obviously given away whenever he is attacked).

@ PO - I was specifically shying away from the displacer field as I am currently working on a character for Zophar's band whose 'thing' is that they have a displacer field, so I didn't want to 'double up' on it. (the character i'm designing is designed to be a very 'slippery' character who has the power 'teleport', so he favours a displacer field over armour in order to sort of reenforce his image).

Anyway, thanks very much for the help; i thought it would be reasonable that Zophar could get ahold of one, but I just wanted to make sure, while also ensuring that people don't think it would unbalance him.

EDIT; I've decided to merge the 'slippery'character with another character idea, so he will no longer be using the displacer field. I think, therefore for the reasons you suggest, along with reasons of fun and coolness, I am going to give Zophar a displacer field. Thanks again to everyone for the input.

[Kaled]

i think i may well say that Willie fiddled with the field to deactivate the flash at Zophar's request

Giving him the displacer field is a better idea.  You can't just deactivate the flash on a conversion field - the whole point of a conversion field is that it converts the energy of the incoming shot into light.  I could buy you converting it into some other form of energy, but it would have to be converted into something.

[Alyster Wick]

but at the Clave, Zophar neither fired a single shot not swung his sword once

Fair enough, he does sound as though he has rotten luck.  At least there's a convenient plot hook to bring him back!

I could buy you converting it into some other form of energy, but it would have to be converted into something.

How about converting it into sound?  You could treat it as double the sound of a gun shot from the character's location (for all intents and purposes EVERYONE hears it).  More interestingly, you could have a high strength concussion originating from the character's base with a radius equal to the damage inflicted, anyone within the radius takes an I test to cover their ears or is stunned.  The character with the field could have sound canceling tech to ignore the effects (as it would be rather silly not to have something like that if you're using this field).

[Kaled]

How about converting it into sound?

I'm pretty sure someone on here has already created a character with a sonic conversion field - at least I think it was on here, I can't find it now...

[Brother_Brimstone]

That's quite a cool idea; I briefly considered it being turned into heat energy, meaning everyone in an X yard radius has to take a test or have some damage done (representing them being 'cooked'), but then I realised that there was no way that Zophar could get out of that without being cooked himself - a protection field that does damage to the wearer seems rather self-defeating!

I like the suggestion, but I think I'm going to stick with the displacer field for fluffy reasons of stealth (and also because Sarthuul's band may not be the most powerful, but they're Chaotic and unpredictable and bring a definite air of anarchy to the table. The displacer field ties into that nicely with it's element of randomness).

[MarcoSkoll]

How about converting it into sound?

Bit problematic from a scientific perspective.

There's not actually that much energy in even pretty loud sounds. In loudspeakers, only a few percent of the input electrical energy gets converted to sound. A good concert/stadium speaker might get as high as 20% efficiency. Put 1000 Watts through that (200 Watts sound output), and you've got 120 dB - which is loud enough to cause hearing damage.

Try and get rid of a thousand joules as sound in somewhat under a millisecond, and you'll need over a million watts. That translates to about 160 dB. Feasible, but also very loud - on a clear day, that kind of sound level can be noticed miles from the source.
Bear in mind, 140 dB is the loudest sound level exposure recommended WITH hearing protection, and (due to the logarithmic scale) that's 100 times quieter.

Doesn't mean it couldn't be designed as a piece of equipment, but it might raise an odd eyebrow from some.

Anyone within the radius takes an I test to cover their ears or is stunned.

I'm going to point out that both bullets and sound are quite fast. The time available wouldn't offer any chance to react and cover your ears.
I prefer the Istvaanian Sourcebook's take on it (see the Voice Thrower), where the characters have to test versus Wp. It's not so much about blocking the sound, but being able to keep your wits when subjected to it.

But still... same problem as the photon flash. Extra tests that can clog up gameplay.

I don't recall seeing Zophar's back story

As Brimstone hasn't linked it himself: http://www.the-conclave.co.uk/forum/index.php?topic=554.0

Other than that, there did seem to be some nasty pieces of kit in play based on the Conclave pics I've browsed through.  Perhaps it was just the results of everyone's powerful pet Inquisitor and special gimmicks being in play?

Inquisitor Skoll alone took injuries from Bolt, Power, Plasma and Flame weapons at the Spring Conclave.

Whether or not you consider those "nasty pieces of kit"... well, I personally avoid them most of the time. I do equip characters with them on occasion, but I try and avoid using them on the basis that "an Inquisitor could get one".

I mean if you're going to unveil something awesome that you've been working on at an event then odds are it isn't going to be a mutant with a bad leg.

Probably isn't going to be, no. But does a model really need to be armed with the biggest nastiest guns possible in order to be impressive?

[Alyster Wick]

Bit problematic from a scientific perspective.

I'm willing to suspend my disbelief, since we are talking about an invisible energy field that  stops bullets and lazers and converts their energy into a more benign form.  On the off chance that someone is currently working on something like that, I'm still willing to suspend my disbelief on a basis of awesomeness/this is 40K years in the future in a universe that may not be our own.

I'm going to point out that both bullets and sound are quite fast.

I do prefer your WP method (or perhaps you could replace it with Nerves or the underused Ld test with varying explanations).  Mostly I was basing this off the photon flash test (isn't that supposed to be an initiative test because you cover your eyes?).  

Also, in regards to my comments on "nasty kit" and "powerful pet inquisitors" I didn't mean to sounds overly negative.  I think both those things are perfectly acceptable if not appropriate for a distinguished gathering.


And thanks for the link!

[MarcoSkoll]

Mostly I was basing this off the photon flash test (isn't that supposed to be an initiative test because you cover your eyes?).

Yeah, but for the photon flash grenade, that's not completely inappropriate. The trick is to spot it and shield your eyes before it goes off.

Makes less sense in the case of the Conversion field though.

I think both those things are perfectly acceptable if not appropriate for a distinguished gathering.

Don't get me wrong either. I'm not saying they can't be used, but those are the only weapons he got injured with. Okay, one character did try shooting at him with a lasrifle - but that went wide. Four out of the five weapons he was attacked with (and four out of four of the ones that hit) were supposedly rare pieces of equipment.

As I went with characters armed with stubbers, shotguns and laspistols, there were a few situations where they found themselves slightly outgunned.
But I can work with that - I don't keep my characters static and unchanging. I think they're going to make a few changes in response to the problems they've encountered.

[Alyster Wick]

Okay Brimstone, I finally read the Zophar background and (for what it's worth) I think he's earned daemonic properties to his body.  The sword has regrown major parts of his body and resurrected him multiple times, that's bound to have some effect.

That said, do what you wish as far as the field is concerned, but considering you were toying with the idea of having another character with a displacer I think that giving Zophar's body some kind of daemonic resilience would be perfectly fitting and accomplish your goal of increasing his survivability with an organic explanation grown out of real game narrative.

[Chipperz]

Okay Brimstone, I finally read the Zophar background and (for what it's worth) I think he's earned daemonic properties to his body.  The sword has regrown major parts of his body and resurrected him multiple times, that's bound to have some effect.

Yeah, after reading Zophar/Sarthuul's background, that was the conclusion I came to - if Sarthuul is making a habit of bringing Zophar's body back to life, it'd stand to reason that he'd become slowly more demonic.  Especially given his ability to rebuild a human body at will, Invulnerable could be a good power, maybe Shadow if you really want to play up the sneaky side?

If that's too much for you, what about switching out Ressurrection for Impervious while Zophar is holding Sarthuul?  It'd give you at least five hits of survivability?

[Brother_Brimstone]

I may end up giving Zophar the quality that reduces regular damage but increases holy + silver damage, as well as a displacer field.

Ah well, hope you enjoyed the fluff anyway (despite the fact that it's rather lengthy). I'll give it a go with both and i'll soon find out if i need to just keep one of the two...

Thanks for the input