Main Menu

News:

If you are having problems registering, please e-mail theconclaveforum at gmail.com

What tools etc. should I start off buying?

Started by dumdeedum, June 19, 2010, 10:27:27 AM

Previous topic - Next topic

dumdeedum

Heya,

With my last exam being this afternoon, I'm going to be having a reasonable amount of free time so I've decided I'm going to try and make at least one, if not 2 of my characters soon, the second of which hopefully being a sculpt if I can work up the courage somehow.

So basically my question is what should I ideally have for this enterprise? Where would I get it? And what can I afford to not have?
Then the same for paints I suppose, I've seen some praises for he GW foundation paints and washes, so is it worth getting all of them? Or would it be better getting a select few (considering the lot would cost me £50)

Thanks in advance

James

DapperAnarchist

I tried starting off just buying what I thought I needed in terms of paints... but its amazing how, as your paint collection goes up, your variety of choice of paints goes up. "So, green jacket, metal gun, brown trousers... oooh, red lights on the gun... hmmmm, purple for a tattoo would be good". A limited range of paints isn't bad, but it does limit the complexity of a paintjob.
Questions are a burden to others, answers a burden to oneself.

The Keltani Subsector  My P&M Thread - Most recent, INQ28!

Charax

for sculpting, I would grab:

some Pro-Create (I've been advocating this stuff for years, it really is fantastic)
Stainless steel sculpting tools
clay shapers
(all of which you can get from Heresy Miniatures)
Some different putties might be useful too - if you're sculpting from scratch I'd get some Green Stuff for the base work and use ProCreate for the surface detail.

Next up, paints.
P3 paints have exceptional coverage. you can literally go from a black undercoat to pure white in a few layers. buy whichever one has the colours you think you'll use most - I have the Cryx set and it is rather useful.

Other than that, Vallejo for paints/inks, GW for Washes. Tamiya Clear Red is also a must-have if you're painting blood.

(No longer} The guy with his name at the bottom of the page

Brother_Brimstone

Under what circumstances are clay shapers preferable to sculpting tools? I have a set of sculpting tools and a lot of greenstuff and generally they have served me quite well in my conversions so far, but sometime in the future I would like to try sculpting, and would be interested to know how essential the clay shapers are if you've already got a fairly wide variety of metal sculpting tools.

Charax

depends on what you're sculpting and how good you are really, but Clay Shapers tend to be better for smooth or organic surfaces than metal tools are
(No longer} The guy with his name at the bottom of the page

greenstuff_gav

what Charax said; i'd go to Heresy for my clippers and Sculpting Tools; start with set HTT01; the three in the picture are all i use  :-[
You'll need a Knife... you can get away with any Stanley knife, so long as the blade is sharp!

Brass Rod is a must, either for Pinning components together or armature for sculpting. I'd check any stationers for a pack of brass paperclips!

as to Glue, i buy my superglue at the local Pound Shop; 3 for £1 :)

undercoat i use Matt Black from my local car shop and a mixture of paints; many gaming fairs often have cheap acrylic paint :D
i make no apologies, i warned you my ability to roll ones was infectious...

Build Your Imagination

DapperAnarchist

Clay shapers are great. I bought a cheap one in a local art supply shop - brilliant stuff. I find it best for robes and the like...
Questions are a burden to others, answers a burden to oneself.

The Keltani Subsector  My P&M Thread - Most recent, INQ28!

Vermis

#7
Quote from: Charax on June 19, 2010, 01:15:02 PM
for sculpting, I would grab:

some Pro-Create (I've been advocating this stuff for years, it really is fantastic)
Stainless steel sculpting tools
clay shapers
(all of which you can get from Heresy Miniatures)
Some different putties might be useful too - if you're sculpting from scratch I'd get some Green Stuff for the base work and use ProCreate for the surface detail.

Seconded with bells on.

Clay shapers... I dunno if they'd replace steel tools for putty-sculpting, IMO, but they are very useful for smoothing and forming soft, organic shapes and textures.
To get pedantic about it, clay shapers (with colour-coded black tips) are the hardest version of colour shapers.  They seem to be geared more towards softer media - colour shapers seem to be made primarily for pushing paint around a canvas!  I'd hazard a guess epoxy putty and miniature sculpting didn't factor too large in the R&D of clay shapers, either.  As per the name I think they cater more towards 'earthen' and polymer clays; and as I found out recently, some commonly-used epoxy putties are considerably stiffer than the latter, at least, and rapidly become more so.  IMO steel tools are usually better for the bulk of putty sculpting - pushing and shaping the basic masses - while clay shapers do well for some of the finishing work.  Especially with GS, which is notoriously more difficult to smooth than other putties.

The size 0 5-set is good to start off with, but if you want to pick and choose I'd recommend a size 0 taper, a size 0 round cup for smoothing (leaves less marks than the corners of the chisel, IMO), and a size 2 round cup for smoothing larger areas on larger sculpts, such as you might find on heroic 54mm minis...
The double-ended tool in the Heresy shop is good - more pointed than the regular taper for finer details, and the loop end ain't too useless either.  They make a good combination.

If you want to keep a tight rein on expenses, I'd recommend an all-purpose two-putty combination of an 'elastic putty' (GS or PC) and a hard-curing 'clay putty' (milliput, apoxie sculpt, or magic sculp).  You can mix them in different ratios for different purposes - organic shapes, hard edges, sandable objects, etc.  In general the elastic putty helps keep the flaky, slightly water-soluble clay putty together, and the clay putty reduces the memory and rubberiness of the elastic putty.
Green stuff tends to benefit more from the mix.  Procreate has much less of the stiff memory problem and does very well on it's own without clay to loosen it up, although in my experience it cures fairly rubbery and not as hard as marketing suggests.  Some 'clay' is needed for the sharpest, flattest, sanded objects IMO.  But when you go making elastic/clay mixes like that, GS seems to make it much more user-friendly and responsive.  I'm not sure why but I think PC's own lack of memory works against it in those cases.   My own favourite mixes include GS mixed with apoxie sculpt or milliput yellow-grey (and a bit of GS with PC, for some finishing layers ;)).
Also, you tend to get a lot more clay putty bang for your buck.  That and the hard cure make them a decent recommendation for holding and bulking the core of your sculpts.

But enough of that lecture.  If you don't want to keep a tight rein on expenses, I'd say get whatever you can whenever you can, and play with them all to see what you like.

Now to shine forth my wisdom on paints.  ;)  On the subject of GW foundations, I'd say go for the colours that traditionally don't cover well, especially over black.  The pale/off-white colours, yellow and red, especially.  Then maybe go for quick-basecoat colours that're a bit more subdued than the standard GW range, if you like that sort of thing.  Then there are some colours that I scratch my head over.  E.g. why use necron abyss when dark blues from any range tend to cover well?
And there are a lot of paint ranges out there. GW is generally good quality but the price puts a lot of people off.  Others tend to have wider ranges, including their own less saturated colours.  Miniature paint options include P3 and Vallejo's Model and Game Color ranges, as mentioned by Charax; Reaper's Master Series and Pro Paints in the US; Black Hat's Coat D'Arms ranges in the UK; and more.  Speaking for meself, I'm most fond of Coat D'arms.  There's also something to be said for some of the cheap craft acrylic brands like Delta Ceramcoat, Plaid Folkart & Apple Barrel, and Anita's.

GW washes are excellent.  The whole range is good, although sepia, flesh, brown and black seem to be better for shading coloured areas (skin for the first two), and the others better for colouring white or light basecoats.  I think.
Unfortunately Coat D'arms' versions don't match up.  They don't have the same 'spreadability'.  Although the yellow is great over a white basecoat.

And I'm finally done.  I always seem to type out essays for these kinds of questions...  :-\
www.minisculpture.co.uk - a place about pushing putty 'til it does what you want it.  Currently recuperating from being hackered and knackered.

Vermis

Oh yeah!  You might want something to sculpt on too. :)  Traditionally corks - cork corks - with the armature wire pushed in the top.  But you can use a few different materials and fixing methods, depending on what's convenient.  It can go all the way to a custom-made clamp.  I like sticking the armature on a disc or square of plasticard, glued to a cork or balsawood, because the wire 'roots' kept wiggling loose in the cork.

Armature metal or wire - anything you like.  I normally use copper and brass beading wire from a craft shop (the non-laminated kind) or some reels of cheapo wire from a poundshop set.
www.minisculpture.co.uk - a place about pushing putty 'til it does what you want it.  Currently recuperating from being hackered and knackered.

dumdeedum

#9
I've sorted what I'm getting sculpting wise, but I'm still having trouble paints wise.

I'm only going to have £30, so if you had £30 in the UK, what paints would you get?

EDIT: In addition, does anyone know where I could buy any models like the generic ones from bronzeageminiatures, but in the UK? I quite want to make a virtually clothes-less character.

James

Vermis

#10
Quote from: dumdeedum on June 22, 2010, 01:53:33 AM
I'm only going to have £30, so if you had £30 in the UK, what paints would you get?

Netmerchants have an offer on Vallejo Game Colour.  £1.14 a bottle.

I'm not too keen on the dropper bottles though, and I still prefer Coat D'arms and Gamecraft*.  But a whole lot of people would disagree with me.

*85p a pot.  Although they've disappeared from Ral Partha Europe's site after they moved house.

Edit: one email later - they'll be back.
www.minisculpture.co.uk - a place about pushing putty 'til it does what you want it.  Currently recuperating from being hackered and knackered.