The Conclave

As I said a while ago, I figured it was time to get some discussion going about my core warband before the Spring Conclave.

As a warning to any lazy readers, the profiles and backgrounds for this lot are a rather formidable amount of text. I've offered a somewhat more condensed background at the end of the post, but there's still a certain amount to churn through.

Similarly, currently, their profiles are a bit more beefed up than some of my more recent characters. While they've had a few rules and stats rewritten over time, quite a lot hasn't really changed in around a year and a half. They weren't really designed for pick-up games away from my group, and they'll need a certain amount of fixing to try and get them so I have better streamlined rules that won't hold up or dominate the faster Conclave games, but without sacrificing the visions I have for their characters. (However, as I suggest elsewhere, if said solutions don't immediately present themselves, Lyra's warband will still be perfectly adequate for the job - Marco can theoretically wait for another event.)

Anyway, we begin with my namesake for now.

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Marco is right handed.
Skills: Deadeye Shot, Mass Awareness, Rock Steady Aim, True Grit
Traits: Soul Bond
Minor Talents: Gunsmith
Wyrd Powers: Telekinesis

Weapons:  Custom stubber with three reloads; Laevateinn
Armour:  Reflec coated Carapace armour on Chest and abdomen.
Implants: Psi-booster
Equipment: Inquisitorial Seal, Comm-Link, Medi-pak, Combi-tool, Lighter, Flashlight.

Soul Bond: Originally this used "Soul Mate" from Fanatic Online 50, but I took a dislike to the rules, and I went through a series of other experimental rules instead.
Currently, I'm roleplaying this with GM support, but for the coming Spring Conclave, I'm going to have to start hunting for the right rules again.

Gunsmith: +10% to any test relating to altering, fixing malfunctions, building, repair, etc of a firearm. This bonus is doubled when specialised tools are available. Where no test is involved, the number of actions required is instead halved (rounding up).
The character may also repair firearms disabled by Machine Empathy by passing a Sg test with a negative modifier equal to the amount by which the psychic test was passed.

Mass Awareness: Marco has learnt how to use his telekinesis to grant him a sixth sense for the mass in his surroundings, giving him the occasionally somewhat disturbing ability to "see" through solid objects or behind him.

Marco may make mass awareness tests. He makes a Wp test (against his basic Wp), and if he passes, his mass awareness becomes active for 5 yards plus an extra yard per 5 points or part thereof he passed by.
At this point, test as if it were a vision awareness test, except that any light level penalties or bonuses are disregarded, he may see through intervening terrain, applies range modifiers at a range of -1% per yard and may "look" in a direction other than his current line of sight (e.g. behind him).
He may also use this ability to ascertain things such as the weight or armour value of objects within range.

Obviously, he cannot "see" anything which doesn't have mass. While he can still see psychic blunts (he senses their mass, not their soul), he does however suffer the penalty for seeing Pariahs.

Custom stubber: As per Heavy Duty Stubber, but +5% Acc. It is fitted with a reflex sight and an integral flash/sound suppressor –  Total Enc 25

Laevateinn - Rune Sword:

Reach	Dam	PP
3	2D6+2	-5%

Treated as a Rune weapon. Additionally, Laevateinn is subject to the Blade of Legend and Daemonslayer rules, regardless of if wielded by a psyker or not.

Blade of legend: Laevateinn is older than records know, and its construction is a masterpiece of an age long forgotten. Its fate is already written, and its destiny millennia yet to come. Laevateinn is immune to destruction, regardless of the source.

Daemonslayer: Other than the doubled damage for a force weapon strike, all effects of the "daemonic" exotic abilities are disregarded against strikes from Laevateinn.

Combi-tool: This device combines several miniaturised tools into one moderately sized package, and is a considerable aid when working with mechanical systems. To someone familiar with the tool, it adds +5% to tests taken when trying to interact with machinery.

Lighter: A small tool used for the purpose of starting fires. GM's discretion as to use.

Flashlight: As per Flashlight from "FO89 Shadows of Deceit" article.

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Below is a reasonably inclusive and detailed background - it runs to about 2000 words. If you can't be bothered to read that much, then afterwards, I've included a cropped ~750 word version, although it does lack some of the explanations and detail.


FULL NAME: Marco Robert Skoll

KNOWN ALIASES: Not known for using aliases as part of his work. However, possible connection to the "White Knight of Giena Hive".

RANK / AFFILIATION: Inquisitor (Ordo Perditus);  Considered to be Amalathian (personally abstains from classifying beliefs.)

AGE / GENDER / APPEARANCE:  42 Terran Years; Male; Height: 6' 2" / Weight: 177 lbs. He has grey eyes and very short sandy blonde hair, as well as multitude of minor scars. Generally clean shaven. Right handed.

ATTIRE: Marco typically wears a long brown trenchcoat (formerly his father's), and long black boots.
His general practice is to avoid dressing in a way that might identify him as an Inquisitor to a casual glance, avoiding glaring Imperial symbols or other trinkets of his vocation.

When trouble may present itself, he also wears carapace body armour which has been coated with las-dispersing crystals - a gift he was given by his partner.

PERSONALITY: Marco naturally questions anything and everything, and is a good problem solver, although his solutions can often overcomplicate things unnecessarily.

Possessed of a natural perseverance, if he has truly set his mind to a task, then he will see it done by any means, and no matter what obstacles may lie in his path. However, in spite of his strength of personal will, he finds it abhorrent to force his will upon others - typically, his "orders" are phrased passively or as requests. Only in particularly dire circumstances will he actually issue direct orders.

Marco seldom acts like an Inquisitor - firstly in his reluctance to give orders, and also his unusual informality. For the most part, unless the conversation needs to be particularly official, he prefers conversations to be on a equal level, usually addressing others on first name terms.

It is hard to outright anger him - aside from having a very long fuse, in most circumstances, what might anger another is more likely to just fuel his persistence. However, if he believes (or knows) that you have harmed someone whom he cares about, there is nigh on nothing that can stop his tenacious, but serene fury.

BELIEFS: Marco belongs to the Order Perditus, an organisation whose primary (although not publicised) role is keeping the secrets of the Imperium, by what means may be necessary, believing that as knowledge is the greatest weapon, it must be kept out of the hands of the foes of man.
In their public role, the Order Perditus claim to be hunters, specialising in tracking or finding what is lost, be it a ship, planet, or person, a role they fulfil well - although their lack of specialisation to handle certain threats can prove their downfall at times.

Marco's beliefs on the role of the Inquisition can cause difficulties between himself and various others. To paraphrase a quote from Marco's own records:
"We as Inquisitors are merely humans granted the burden of the power to serve the Imperium. Authority does not make it possible for anyone to transcend the limits of our species  - it merely gives some the delusion that they may. As such, I do not abuse my power, nor allow it to abuse me."

Although generally Puritan in his methods and beliefs, Marco is in constant fear of being perceived as a Radical, and often believes himself to be only scarcely avoiding such. His fear is at least in part due to his childhood conditioning of hatred for his own psychic ability (see History, below). While he is now consenting to use his power, the doubts of his youth still concern him, gnawing at his conscience.
However, in spite of this, his views of where others exist on the spectrum, even other psykers, seem well rounded, and it is typically only himself that where he sees the worst - an unusual trait amongst people who are often quicker to believe themselves right than wrong.

ALIGNMENT: Considerate - Honest - Ordered

ABILITIES / STRENGTHS / WEAKNESSES: Marco's primary strength is his mind, in more ways than one. Aside from being highly sharp, mentally agile and learned,  he is also a telekinetic who displays exceptionally high discipline over his power, albeit rather limited in the masses he can move.
One of Marco's more unusual abilities is his skill for using his telekinesis as a sixth sense for mass. In much the same way that a human has an innate sense for where their foot or hand is, Marco can extend this to his environment.

Outside of his mental ability, he demonstrates good physical fitness, and in combat, he is a competent swordsman, an exceptional shot, and a good tactician - however, he is not a spectacular combat leader, given a tendency to focus on objectives, rather than the demeanour of his allies.

Another major strength of Marco is his partner, Silva Birgen, for their souls are bound (although the mechanism is unknown), which makes each highly attuned to the other. With the ability to read each other and work together naturally, not to mention the gut instinct each seems to have for "just knowing" where the other is or what they are doing, the pair are a highly formidable team.

WEAPONS/EQUIPMENT: Marco carries a reasonable array of equipment, allowing him to adapt to almost any situation. Aside from his armour, his two most obvious items are the rune sword slung across his back, and the suppressed stubber in a thigh holster. The stubber (for which he always carries spare magazines) is of his own crafting using the gunsmithing knowledge he learned from his father.

The rune sword Laevateinn was recovered from the personal collection of Inquisitor Roniro, whose death Marco and Inquisitor Byssus (his former master) were investigating.
The sword's true power is unknown, as its early history is lost from even the eyes of the Inquisition - however, it is known to be many thousands of years old, and may even precede the formation of the Imperium. Curiously, the earliest known legends of the blade talk of a rumour that the blade itself chooses its owners.

His only augmentation to date is the psy-booster he was fitted with as part of the final phase of his sanctioning (on his mentor Byssus' orders).

SERVANTS/ACQUAINTANCES: Marco is seldom seen without his partner, Silva Birgen, an ex-Guard Staff Sergeant (Female/39 yrs) with heavy bionic repair.

His main entourage includes Giovanna Ciris (Female/32 yrs), an Arbite trained in less-lethal combat and demolitions; Arden Holf (Male/57 yrs), an ageing former smuggler, but still exceptional pilot; and the various crew of Arden's ship, which includes co-pilot/bodyguard Jax Lynn (Male/46 yrs), the ship's enginseer "Alpine" (Female/42 yrs),the Navigator Jaysar (Male/Age unknown), and the ship's astropath Malthe Octavian (Male/34 yrs).

He maintains contacts with his former mentor Inquisitor Lembus Byssus (Male/224 yrs), his mentor's other former acolytes Cathal Brennan (Male/143 yrs) and Lyra Rhodes (Female/98 yrs) and the mercenary "Frost" (Female/28 yrs).

HISTORY: Born on the planet of Mapane III to a gunsmith father Akseli Skoll (since deceased), and a mechanic mother Amalia Lahtinen, Marco's young life was marred by his telekinetic power, something he took great pains to hide. Due to the exceptionally low rates of psykers on Mapane, they were even more heavily shunned than elsewhere in the Imperium, and discovery at best turned an individual into a social pariah, and at worst resulted in lynching.
He spent his childhood being taught the principles of gunsmithing by his father, and on his twelfth birthday was presented with one of the finest examples his father had ever made (and which he still owns).

Shortly after turning eighteen, his village was attacked by canine predators and Marco was caught in the open before a defence could be rallied against them. In that moment, fear of discovery was eclipsed by fear for his life, and he reversed the leap of a pouncing creature in mid-air, sending it flying into the distance. Seeing one of his dearest friends injured sent him into a deep fury, and his inhibitions snapped, letting the coiled up hatred of his own power lash free. And so, he set about slaughtering the entire pack of beasts with a lethal hail of the loose stones that littered the ground.
After his rampage, he became almost universally shunned, even though he had doubtless saved many lives due to the expedience and magnitude of his counter attack.

It was a few days later when Inquisitor Byssus, renowned within the Ordo Perditus, arrived in the village, having heard the rumours. He spent three days questioning the boy, and on his departure, took the young Marco with him, who was only too keen to be able to evade the hatred of those he had cared for.
Immediately marshalled into the hands of the Adeptus Astra Telepathica for assessment and sanctioning, he showed significant control, although not great power, and with the prompt processing that came with the earmark of being destined to serve an Inquisitor, he managed to become officially sanctioned in relatively short order.
After he passed out of the Scholastia Psykana, he spent the following years serving under Byssus.

At the age of 27,Marco acquired the rune sword Laevateinn, during an investigation into Inquisitor Roniro's disappearance. On entering his main residences with Byssus, the pair found a massacre. It was no great time before they found the perpetrator, a daemonic beast that Roniro had unwittingly unleashed.
In the long battle with the creature, Marco's original blade was shattered within Roniro's vaults.
Reaching out telekinetically for another amongst the vault's collection, the psychically attuned rune sword flew into his hands and severed the beast's head with its next swing.
After the event, as its former owner was deceased, Byssus arranged for the sword to be confirmed untainted,  and finding it pure, had it gifted to his apprentice - although the question remains as to whether he would have done it had he known the sword's true power.

At the age of 28, he met his partner Silva during an operation hunting a cyrokinetic on Wymec. It was approximately two years later that Silva was crippled to the extent she had to be bionically rebuilt. A further year later, the three were nearly all killed on Eidica, a mistake they escaped only through sheer luck and the Emperor's blessing.

Shortly before turning 38, although abnormally young, he was officially promoted to Inquisitor when Byssus elected to retire from field work, something the Inquisitor had pulled a few strings to see go through.
For the immediate few months following his promotion, the Inquisitor hired the services of a mercenary known as Frost. After this time, he recruited the Arbite Giovanna Ciris, and later again, the smuggler Arden Holf and his crew in order to provide him with the required skills and manpower to conduct his operations - including the famed Rugis actions and the infamous Gercshcliff breakout that followed. Other operations of note include the Tannhauser Gate and Giena Hive.

NOTES: Marco owns a 4 wheeled off-road vehicle built by the manufacturer Garor-Prij (Pron. Gah-ra Pry-ge).
While designed for civilian purposes, and thus not fitted with armour or armaments, its formidable chassis and combustion engine allow it to maintain speeds of up to 200kph off-road.

QUIRKS:
-   Tends to introduce himself with his full name and rank, something of a backlash to his mentor's frequent use of aliases.
-   Has a habit of making obscure metaphors and references.

QUOTES:
To Arbitrator Highfield: "I am Marco Robert Skoll, Inquisitor to He-on-Terra. I have met men that can't be, strode planets that shouldn't, heard the cries of people yet to be born, and fought the machinations of those long dead. I can kill with a thought, burn civilizations with a word, command armies with a gesture, and demand obedience with my name. Who are you to question me?"

To Governor Hythe: "Killing you would imply you were something worth the effort. Worse, it would allow you to escape the punishment your ineptitude truly deserves."

Part of a discourse on human nature: "There is no dark side of humanity really. As a matter of fact, it's all dark - the only thing that makes it look alight is the Emperor."

To an unknown citizen of Giena Hive: "Who am I? I'm the man who's going to save your life. Now, if you don't mind, if you started running rather than asking questions, it would be somewhat easier."

On the subject of the heretical Inquisitor Cearra Jocosse's escape: "She chose the long road, but we'll be waiting."

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NAME: Marco Robert Skoll
RANK: Inquisitor (Order Perditus);  Considered by others to be Amalathian in his beliefs (although Marco personally abstains from classifying his beliefs)
AGE / GENDER / APPEARANCE:  42 Terran Years; Male; Height: 6' 2"; Weight: 177 lbs. Grey eyes. Short sandy blonde hair. Multitude of minor scars. Generally clean shaven. Right handed.
ATTIRE: Typically wears a long brown trenchcoat (formerly his father's), and heavy black boots.
PERSONALITY: Abnormally casual and calm for an Inquisitor. Persistent, but seldom forceful. Hard to anger, except where someone he cares about has been harmed - his fury is tenacious, but serene.
OCCUPATION: Belongs to the Order Perditus, an organisation which has set about keeping Imperium's secrets.  However, they are officially hunters, specialising in tracking or finding what is lost, whatever it may be.
BELIEFS: Marco's beliefs on the Inquisition are that Inquisitors are merely humans granted the burden of the power to serve the Imperium, and that it is foolish for an Inquisitor to forget they are human. Generally Puritan in his methods, beliefs and associates, but Marco often feels his actions are sometimes more towards Radical than he can necessarily justify.
ABILITIES / STRENGTHS / WEAKNESSES: Controlled (if not hugely powerful) telekinetic, with a 6th sense for mass.
A sharp, mentally agile and learned mind. Good mechanical aptitude (trained as a gunsmith). Physically fit and resilient. Competent with a blade, expert with firearms, and a good tactician.
Not a particularly inspiring combat leader - too much focus on objectives, rather than the demeanour of his allies.
Psychically bound (although the mechanism is unknown) to his partner, Silva Birgen, with each highly attuned to the other, making the pair a formidable team.
WEAPONS/EQUIPMENT: Carries a reasonable amount of equipment in order to be prepared for almost any situation. Wears reflec coated carapace, given to him by Silva after a wound several years ago. Carries the powerful and ancient rune sword Laevateinn and a custom suppressed stubber (with lots of spare ammo).  Also carries a combi-tool (from his mother); a lighter (although he does not smoke); a miniature lamp-pack; and a micro-bead comm-link. Fitted with a psy-booster as part of his sanctioning.
SERVANTS/ACQUAINTANCES: Routinely travels with Silva Birgen, his partner; Giovanna Ciris, an Arbite; Arden Holf, an ageing former smuggler; Jax Lynn, Arden's bodyguard/co-pilot and the various crew of Arden's ship. Somewhat disappointed that most of his entourage won't associate with him on a more personal level.
Maintains contacts with his former mentor (Lembus Byssus), his mentor's other acolytes (Cathal Brennan and Lyra Rhodes)  and the mercenary "Frost".
HISTORY: Born on Mapane III. Father (Deceased): Akseli Skoll, a gunsmith; his mother, Amalia Lahtinen, was a mechanic. Hides telekinetic power for early life, due to the planet's low psyker rates and high prejudices. Learns gunsmithing until  age 18.
Age 12: Receives high quality rifle from father as birthday present.
Age 18: Forced into using power during an attack by predatory canines. Saves several lives, but becomes social pariah. Inquisitor Byssus turns up to investigate rumours, and after three days leaves, taking Marco with him. Gets enrolled with the Scholastia Psykana, but spends a relatively short time with them. Spends following years serving under Byssus.
Age 27: Acquires Laevateinn from the vaults of the deceased Inquisitor Roniro, somewhat by accident.
Age 28: Meets his partner Silva during a hunt for a cyrokinetic on Wymec, due to their already existent bond. Byssus consents to Silva joining his entourage, partly so the bond can be researched.
Age 31: The trio narrowly escape death on Eidica, and only through pure luck and skill.
Age 38: Promoted to Inquisitor as part of Byssus' retirement from field work. Has since recruited associates to provide him with the skills and manpower needed. Operations of note include the Rugis actions and the Gercshcliff breakout at their conclusion, the Tannhauser Gate, and Giena Hive.
NOTES: Owns a high performance 4WD off-road vehicle, built by the manufacturer Garor-Prij (Pron. Gah-ra Pry-ge). Still owns rifle given by father. Still not fully aware of the extent of Laevateinn's power.
QUIRKS: Tends to introduce himself with his full name and rank, something of a backlash to his mentor's frequent use of aliases;  Prefers to talk to people on casual first name terms, unless the situation is particularly official. May well be formal about people who are not present; Has a habit of making obscure metaphors; Almost never phrases his orders in an absolute form, instead usually phrasing it as a request or a statement of what needs to be done. Only really gives direct orders in dire situations.

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Like I said, quite a lot of text. I just enjoy writing - I particularly enjoyed writing the Quotes section, because I get to make all kinds of different references, as well as try and channel the character's personality on an interesting level.
As far as the references, a cookie goes to anyone who gets all those poked in across the background.

Well... feel free to comment.

Wow, you really don't want people to just read the short version do you? :P

I like it. There is a lot there, and, unlike a lot of backgrounds (mine included) gives quite a bit of character as well as history...

But - I know this is simply asking for more - the Rune Sword seems the sort of thing that could have its own history section. Anything there?

Really loving this. I believe you've made a very believable character and it all seems well thought out.. Any plans for his model?

I read the full version and really enjoyed it - I especially like his external proprioception, a very interesting concept. As I read what you were saying about his hatred of forcing others to do his will, all I could think was about how he'd react if he ever met Sarthuul!

I do, however, have one question. Did the rumour of Marco's telekentic defence make it off planet to the inquisitor, and if so, how? If not, does that mean the Inquisitor was already on his home planet, and if so, why? It's not a criticism, just a question, as i'm genuinely interested - or is it a detail you are wanting to leave, to be explained in some fluff story at a later date?

Also, just another quick suggestion while I think about it - how about some sort of special rule to represent his 'rage at those who hurt his friends'. Something like 'if a character puts one his allies into system shock or worse, he gets some sort of bonus on attacks towards that character' to represent his vengeful fury. Just a suggestion.

Quote from: DapperAnarchist on February 28, 2010, 08:52:38 PMWow, you really don't want people to just read the short version do you?

Well, the short version will "make do" if people will just overlook the longer background based on its word count. But even the "basic" version is pretty condensed (the full version is tens of thousands of words) - the short version is there as a concession, and while it's just about enough, I don't really want those who would otherwise read the fuller background to just skip to the shorter one because it's there.

QuoteThere is a lot there, and, unlike a lot of backgrounds gives quite a bit of character as well as history.

Well, I prefer using characters that have been well defined in both personality and past - I roleplay better and more fluidly the better I know the character.

I usually consider 2000-3000 words about the minimum that I can really set out a character well enough in - I have (and indeed, do) use characters with less, but they're generally characters I'm still in the process of developing.

QuoteBut - I know this is simply asking for more - the Rune Sword seems the sort of thing that could have its own history section. Anything there?

Laevateinn does indeed have its own history, and two versions of it - its genuine history, and what Marco knows of its history.

As the background says, even the Inquisition don't know the origins of the blade. It can be traced back a certain distance through a number of owners, and references to a sword that matches its description can be found in various older records, but there are a lot of holes in what Marco knows.

A reasonable proportion of the sword's wielders back to late-M38 can be named - it's not always a continuous chain, and there are a few gaps of decades or centuries where its whereabouts are unknown.
Since mid-M40, the wielders have almost invariably been associated with the Inquisition. Starting with when Inquisitor Fulke took the sword from Lieutenant Cuyler, who had recovered it from a bog on Chryseis IIX (where evidence suggests it had been for ~259 years since the recorded death of its previous owner, Illias Gaitanis), it has largely drifted between members of the Inquisition - either wielded in battle, or consigned to vaults.

Prior to this, there's an M36 record of it being wielded by Librarian Aemilius of the Astral Watchers chapter, and a possible occurrence of it amongst the items recovered in an M35 raid on an Eldar outpost.
There has never been a lot to connect its owners - some were notable, some utterly forgettable; some psykers, some "normal" - but that almost without exception, all of them came across the sword by accident, rather than by intention.

That's as far back as Marco knows its history - I could go into its actual origins, but sometimes I think it's best to leave a few things unsaid and somewhat mysterious.

Quote from: Daxam on February 28, 2010, 09:31:44 PMAny plans for his model?

Marco currently has a model (mostly made from the Arbites Judge), but I've never been particularly proud of it, and only ever really intended for it to serve a short period of service until I replaced it with a sculpted model.

I started a sculpt back in 2008, but there were various different mistakes and it got put off for some time. However, I am now on the verge of starting attempt #2, which should hopefully make it to the Spring Conclave.

Quote from: Brother_Brimstone on February 28, 2010, 10:20:06 PMDid the rumour of Marco's telekinetic defence make it off planet to the inquisitor, and if so, how? If not, does that mean the Inquisitor was already on his home planet, and if so, why?

Byssus was already on the planet, investigating the claims that the planet's production was being incorrectly reported for the tithes - this being of particular importance, because Mapane III is an agri-world. (Eventually, the problem turned out to be that the production had been recorded in an archaic local unit system, which hadn't been properly converted for the Administratum reports...  ::))

Despite the relatively basic tech levels on the planet, the rumours had travelled pretty fast and pretty wide; Mapian psykers are rare, generally fairly weak and almost invariably in hiding.
A psyker openly displaying that kind of power in public was nigh unheard of. As relatively meagre as Marco's power is (he's controlled, but he can only reliably manipulate maybe 20 kilos), he was still one of the most powerful psykers on the planet.

Byssus, being an Inquisitor, was somewhat curious about all of this, and (as he was on the planet anyway) decided to at least look at it. In the end, and considering that Byssus is part of the Order Perditus, he saw some potential in an intelligent youth who had kept a considerable secret from a highly suspicious society for so long - and who happened to be a competent psyker as well, of course.

... that's a bit of a condensed version of things, but I assume it's enough to explain that part of the tale.

QuoteHow about some sort of special rule to represent his 'rage at those who hurt his friends'.

Interesting idea (and one I quite like), but I think that he's probably already laden with quite enough rules. As it's something that can be left to roleplay, I guess it's best to keep it simple.

A good read.  I generally prefer stories to illustrate character as opposed to character histories, but I suspect you  have a number of such stories and had to condense based on what you're said. 

My favorite bit has to be his ability to sense mass, I think one of the most fun/interesting things to do in Inquisitor is to find potential ways to use psychic abilities for new and different purposes.  I'm tooling around with a couple things myself, but I'll save that for my own post.

As you said, he's pretty beefy compared to other conclave characters, but I think it's all balanced out by the background.  There's a specific reason for everything and his personality quirks work to moderate him.  Also, though his equipment can be exotic, his lack of specialization is apparent.  While he happens to have a weapon that's beastly against daemons he isn't necessarily the type of character to run up to a bloodthirster and start swinging.  The sword does work as a great badge of status to those in the know given his ordos.

Quote from: Alyster Wick on March 01, 2010, 12:52:53 AMI suspect you  have a number of such stories

Many - for example, the quote directed at Governor Hythe is from one of the various different stories I've been writing. I mean to get some of them onto the site as and when I feel I've got where they're going sorted out.

QuoteMy favorite bit has to be his ability to sense mass

Well, I always thought that it made a sense for a psyker to have a 6th sense for whatever they do.

If you pick something up, you instantly determine all kinds of different things about it - its mass, shape, size, hardness, friction, etc.
Similarly, it makes sense that a telekinetic can determine similar things with their power. Essentially, they'd have some sense of "remote touch".

Theoretically, you can determine a lot about your environment solely by feeling around with your hands - so, it made sense that a telekinetic of sufficient talent could perceive their environment (more efficiently, admittedly) with their "remote touch".

QuoteAs you said, he's pretty beefy compared to other conclave characters, but I think it's all balanced out by the background.

I'll probably go and poke at some of the stats in the next few days. I'll probably give his Sg a certain hit, because while he's intelligent, he's not all that old either, so his knowledge will be limited by that.
His S on the other hand - I don't know about that. It's on the high side, but for a long while I've been playing with the idea that he unconsciously uses his innate telekinetics to supplement his physical strength. I'm unsure either way on that. Maybe. Maybe not. Perhaps I'll flip a coin to find out.

... in the end, he'll probably have been changed at least somewhat in the next couple of weeks.

QuoteWhile he happens to have a weapon that's beastly against daemons he isn't necessarily the type of character to run up to a bloodthirster and start swinging.

Not in the slightest - while he's not a coward, he's not suicidal!

Also, he doesn't actually know all of the blade's power. He knows it's an expertly crafted (and psychically conductive) weapon, but he doesn't (yet) know that it's any more special than other force weapons versus the daemonic.

What a monstrosity. Even disregarding the broken combination of high BS/multiple shooting skills/custom firearm, which I assume you've justified with backstory (didn't read it), he's also an effective brawler with above average WS, super-low parry penalty, improbable strength, doubly effective against Daemons, and able to reach out psychically with absolute impunity. I think that sword is the best example of power gaming I've seen, constrained by imagination only you've created a flawless foil to Kaled's swordbreaker.

Quote from: Ferran on March 01, 2010, 01:47:16 PMWhat a monstrosity.

... and I haven't even shown you Frost's profile yet!

I assume you're trying to be ironic here, given all your "let people play the game whichever way" rambles. And if you're not being ironic, then you're certainly being hypocritical.

Anyway, as I've said, Marco is a character who hasn't really changed all that much in the last 18 months. My views on character stats have however. If I were creating the character now, his stats would read differently. Problem is, I'm not creating him now - I'm looking at a character that I've already built up and don't really know where to knock down.

Hence, why I said I needed to do some discussion on the character.

Quotewhich I assume you've justified with backstory (didn't read it)

Great, I go to the effort of creating a condensed version of the backstory, and it still gets ignored.

QuoteI think that sword is the best example of power gaming I've seen

I wouldn't say so. Yes, it's formidable against daemons (which I encounter about once in a blue moon), but against mundane characters, it's less powerful than a power sword.
Average damage is ~14 (compared to a power sword's 16.5) and it can't destroy other blades - yes, it's better at parrying than a power weapon, but a lot of the time characters just dodge. Sure, you can't counter-attack if you dodge, but as it swings the odds of not being hit considerably in your favour...

While some of my characters parry, it's normally only those who can stack things like dual wielding modifiers or shield rules to improve their chances.

Quoteyou've created a flawless foil to Kaled's swordbreaker.

That rule was put in there in case of arguments about whether or not a force weapon is invulnerable to destruction if wielded by a non-psyker.
And yes, said blade has been used by a character other than Marco within the games I've played, the argument did come up, and I put the note in afterwards to settle the matter - and this was before any of the Sollex-Aegis energy blade stuff.

In the end, its "invulnerable" rule only applies in pretty rare circumstances.  It's worth considering that if it should get destroyed, I either have to lose the extensive background and change the model, or go into a Narsil/Andúril situation where it gets broken then re-forged.

It was one thing that Lyra's shock-maul got destroyed (first game of the 2009 IGT) - an Inquisitor could find another one without too much trouble, so there's no big problem bringing it back next game. It's entirely different when it's an ancient, unique and irreplaceable weapon.

I would do the Narsil/Andúril thing for unique "mundane" weapons (such as an heirloom sword), but in this case, I prefer the idea that the sword is forged with ancient methods from materials forgotten to the Imperium and bound together in more than just the material realm.

Quote from: MarcoSkoll on March 01, 2010, 04:25:25 PM

Quote from: Ferran on March 01, 2010, 01:47:16 PMWhat a monstrosity.

... and I haven't even shown you Frost's profile yet!

I assume you're trying to be ironic here, given all your "let people play the game whichever way" rambles. And if you're not being ironic, then you're certainly being hypocritical.

No, I was saying it's an OP character, implying hypocricy on your part given your sniping of moderately powerful characters in your regular prattling posts.

Quote
Anyway, as I've said, Marco is a character who hasn't really changed all that much in the last 18 months. My views on character stats have however. If I were creating the character now, his stats would read differently. Problem is, I'm not creating him now.

It's fortunate that you created this character before you modified your views then.

Quote
- I'm looking at a character that I've already built up and don't really know where to knock down.

Hence, why I said I needed to do some discussion on the character.

I'd reccomend losing RSA skill, at least +10Str (despite that this fellow seems to be a crack-shot, superfit intellectual, I think it's a bit much even for such an obvious renaissence man), and the Wyrd ability. I'd also think about reinstigating the original rulebook version of the psychic risks when using a psi-booster, or at least increasing the consequences of a psychic overload.

Quote

Quotewhich I assume you've justified with backstory (didn't read it)

Great, I go to the effort of creating a condensed version of the backstory, and it still gets ignored.

Yeah, life's a ***** sometimes.

Quote

QuoteI think that sword is the best example of power gaming I've seen

I wouldn't say so. Yes, it's formidable against daemons (which I encounter about once in a blue moon), but against mundane characters, it's less powerful than a power sword.
Average damage is ~14 (compared to a power sword's 16.5) and it can't destroy other blades - yes, it's better at parrying than a power weapon, but a lot of the time characters just dodge. Sure, you can't counter-attack if you dodge, but as it swings the odds of not being hit considerably in your favour...

While some of my characters parry, it's normally only those who can stack things like dual wielding modifiers or shield rules to improve their chances.

Quoteyou've created a flawless foil to Kaled's swordbreaker.

That rule was put in there in case of arguments about whether or not a force weapon is invulnerable to destruction if wielded by a non-psyker.
And yes, said blade has been used by a character other than Marco within the games I've played, the argument did come up, and I put the note in afterwards to settle the matter - and this was before any of the Sollex-Aegis energy blade stuff.

In the end, its "invulnerable" rule only applies in pretty rare circumstances.  It's worth considering that if it should get destroyed, I either have to lose the extensive background and change the model, or go into a Narsil/Andúril situation where it gets broken then re-forged.

It was one thing that Lyra's shock-maul got destroyed (first game of the 2009 IGT) - an Inquisitor could find another one without too much trouble, so there's no big problem bringing it back next game. It's entirely different when it's an ancient, unique and irreplaceable weapon.

I would do the Narsil/Andúril thing for unique "mundane" weapons (such as an heirloom sword), but in this case, I prefer the idea that the sword is forged with ancient methods from materials forgotten to the Imperium and bound together in more than just the material realm.

So just a daemon-slaying power sword equivalent that happens to be tailored to directly nullify the effects of a probable vulnerability, in exchange for a measure of potency. In the hands of this supposed marksman. Hopefully you won't run into a sword-stealer blade (banishes to the warp anything that it parries). This paper/rock scenario of escalating power and ability is a fairly good indicator of power gaming imho.

Quote from: MarcoSkoll on March 01, 2010, 04:25:25 PM
I'm looking at a character that I've already built up and don't really know where to knock down.

If you're not sure where to start, then perhaps the thing to do would be what we might suggest for a novice writing a character - go back to basics and for each stat, write down a line or two about his proficiency/ability/etc and from that assign stats.  You could even post the skills/abilities that you think are essential and ask people to suggest stats based on what your descriptions of his ability and work from there - at least that way you get a myriad of opinions that you can use or ignore.

Although I really like the idea of his mass perception, I would have made it a psychic power rather than an ability he can just use without risk - he's still reaching out with his psychic powers to sense his surroundings and I see no reason why it couldn't go wrong and him suffer feedback etc.

Also, when it come to Gunsmith and his Combi-tool - do they stack to give him a +25% bonus?

The bit of background that jumped out as me as being strange was the mention of his unusual informality and his prefering to talk to people as equals, but then he introduces himself with his full name and rank - and telling people you're an Inquisitor is generally not a good way to make them feel comfortable...

I have to agree that Laevateinn doesn't seem so bad - against most people it's just a normal sword with an improved parry bonus.  Very good against demons, but power weapons are scarier (although I normally avoid them, due to their tendency to kill in one hit).  The rest of his equipment is fairly standard - by powergaming standards he's short one bolt pistol at least, and is quite lightly armoured, which leaves him vulnerable to the ubiquitous schmuck with a laspistol, in the right place.

Assuming he's notched plenty of combat experience, the WS / BS aren't so bad.  As far as scaling him down, you could nudge his strength / toughness lower - 72 is pretty high.  the other area is initiative - this guy is speed 5, which I find makes a real difference to power levels.  I normally try to reserve it for lightly armoured, 'quick' characters (Evandon or the eldar 'Jedd' in my case).

I'm not sure about slaughtering all the beasts with a hail of pebbles, that seems quite powerful.  Suppose he just drove them off?

I'd be really interested in reading the full text :D but I guess, I would be one of really few.

Up to now, I think he is most likely a too good shot, while he's out of obvious reasons quite able to maintain a gun, I don't see a reason to give him a chance of hitting that high, in combination with his WS, I'd tone it down at least 10 points, and even then, he's quite strong.

Additionally I'd loose one of the abilities he's got, or maybe change the abilities a bit to decrease their power.

Mass Awareness as a Skill somehow seems a bit strange, as somebody else already said, it seems to be quite similar in effect to the following psychic power:

QuoteDETECTION – Difficulty: 0
The character scans his surroundings for the mental signature of
his enemies. The character is immediately aware of everyone
within 2D6 yards. This can be increased, adding +5 to the
Difficulty level for every extra D6 yards the characters wishes
Detection to cover...

You could reuse this as a basis for giving the power an approppriat difficulty, I'd guess it might be about as effective as the (incompletely)quoted one, giving it a similar difficulty for the first tests.

Quote from: Ferran on March 01, 2010, 05:07:35 PMNo, I was saying it's an OP character, implying hypocricy on your part given your sniping of moderately powerful characters in your regular prattling posts.

Which would be why my post started with an admission that I recognise that this particular group of characters is "powerful", and that I was looking to get them back in to the right realms.

It's one thing to slate me for posting a powerful character which I'm treating as completely normal, but quite another to go off on a rant about hypocrisy when I've started by saying that I know it needs fixing.

QuoteI'd reccomend losing RSA skill, at least +10Str, and the Wyrd ability.

I'd sooner lose Dead-eye shot than RSA. While I'd like to keep both, I see a "stable controlled shooting" position as better representative of his shooting style.

The Str... I'll agree on that one. I intend that he's better than average as far as strength, but he is too good at the moment.

Wyrd... I have precisely 1 Wyrd character, and this is he - it's not like I use Wyrds left, right and centre. I've got enough conventional psykers I think I've reasonably earned the right to use a Wyrd.

QuoteIn the hands of this supposed marksman.

If you're not going to read the background, of course you're not going to understand why he has the sword. I think it's well enough explained within.

QuoteThis paper/rock scenario of escalating power and ability is a fairly good indicator of power gaming imho.

No.

Said rule was not designed to "get around Kaled's sword-destroyer" or any other similar interpretation you want to apply. What I conceived was a truly ancient sword that had survived everything the millennia had thrown at it - in all the hands it had been wielded by - yet still looked as if it had been forged the day before.

The people I have actually played against (so far, at least) using that rule haven't complained in the slightest - it hasn't come up once since I wrote it. That's how rare the circumstances involved are.

Quote from: Kaled on March 01, 2010, 05:19:22 PMAlthough I really like the idea of his mass perception, I would have made it a psychic power rather than an ability he can just use without risk

Well, it came about as part of my interpretation of Wyrd powers - that they're innate. To a Wyrd, the immediate universe is like an extension of the body - in the same way you can feel where your hand is and move it naturally (and indeed, almost without thinking) , a wyrd telekine can feel and move their environment in the same manner.

Of course, that's probably a non-canonical interpretation of Wyrd powers.

QuoteAlso, when it come to Gunsmith and his Combi-tool - do they stack to give him a +25% bonus?

No - I should have mentioned such. His Combi-tool doesn't count as a "specialised tool" for the purposes of his Gunsmith skill. I wouldn't combine the two at all actually.

QuoteThe bit of background that jumped out as me as being strange was the mention of his unusual informality and his prefering to talk to people as equals, but then he introduces himself with his full name and rank.

It was a mark of respect on his home planet to introduce oneself by a full name (and titles appropriate to the situation*), even in informal conversation.
*It was however considered rude to include titles not currently relevant.

Having kept that with that tradition, he introduces himself with his full name and rank if acting officially - but without the rank if working unofficially.

As I mention, Marco's mentor would frequently use aliases, work undercover, etc. even when it wasn't necessary - something you can imagine that rather irked Marco.
Marco will use aliases if outright necessary, but generally, he's brutally honest about who he is.

I'd also note that he tends to think of an Inquisitor as a job, not a person - in much the same way as he prefers to be perceived as a person with psychic powers, not as a psyker.

Quote from: Myriad on March 01, 2010, 06:27:21 PMThe other area is initiative - this guy is speed 5, which I find makes a real difference to power levels.  I normally try to reserve it for lightly armoured, 'quick' characters.

Unless there's a particular reason for an Inquisitor to be Spd 4, I tend to assume that they're quick thinking, attentive and decisive enough that a low Spd 5 is justifiable.

Quote from: Sarlen on March 01, 2010, 09:46:51 PMMass Awareness as a Skill somehow seems a bit strange, as somebody else already said, it seems to be quite similar in effect to the Detection psychic power.

I had considered detection, but the Mass Awareness isn't designed to be specific to "mental signatures" - theoretically, Marco can see anything of mass... walls, lampposts, small furry creatures from Alpha Centuri.

It's not really designed to be a psychic power, but a sense in the same way as you see, hear or taste. The reason why I've slapped some tests on it is so that it's not just "oh yeah, he can see behind himself, so you can't sneak up on him".

Quote from: MarcoSkoll on March 01, 2010, 10:35:59 PMWyrd... I have precisely 1 Wyrd character, and this is he - it's not like I use Wyrds left, right and centre. I've got enough conventional psykers I think I've reasonably earned the right to use a Wyrd.

Echoing the more constructive comments of others regarding lowering some of the stats, I'd say that overall he's justified his 'expertise' in these various regions, but not by the 70s that he is currently branding. In my circle, the background you've written him would grant him those stats in the mid 60s, high 60s for the best one.

However, what I disagree with is your comment on making him a wyrd. I've used wyrd strength on a cultist, and telepathy on a telepath, but I don't think using it for your Inquisitor and saying "cuz I havn't used it yet" flies with me. I like the power that he has, feeling stuff with his mind, but I'm not sure wyrd is the best representation of it on the game. If I were GMing, I would definitely allow him to 'feel mass' without any tests as if he were touching it himself, but moving things with his mind I would argue would require tests and penalties relating to his degree of skill. Maybe give him a +20 bonus to any telekinesis attempts due to his innate proficiency, but certainly not Wyrd levels of power.

Quote from: RobSkib on March 01, 2010, 11:35:08 PM...but I don't think using it for your Inquisitor and saying "cuz I havn't used it yet" flies with me.

That's not my reason for using the ability.

My "cuz I havn't used it yet" point is that that I'm not averse to suffering the penalties to psychic powers - I don't particularly like them when my psyker's brain is dribbling out of his nose, but I've not taken Wyrd to get "risk-free telekinesis".

I've taken the skill because I wanted to try and develop my ideas of what a Wyrd actually IS. Someone whose power is so innate that the universe is but an extension of their body. They feel their surroundings. They are their environment.
I didn't make him a Wyrd because he could feel mass - I made him feel mass because he's a Wyrd.

Theoretically, I can write up Mass Awareness as a second power. Technically, there's nothing that says a Wyrd can't have multiple powers (indeed, the rulebook description as much as says it's possible), and perhaps it would actually make more sense to put it under the psychics section.

~~~~~

But either way, I'm getting very mixed responses to him. I've got some stat and ability fixes to make, sure - but quite a lot of the criticisms seem to be questioning the core reasoning I've used in parts of the background.
If this is going to persist across the entire warband... :-\

I'll break out Silva's profile and background, and see what responses I get to her. I'll have to assess based on her feedback whether it's worth actually trying to bring this warband, or whether I'll reduce the Spring Conclave to a flame war if I do.

~~~~~

On a lighter note, who did spot the various references?

Quote from: MarcoSkoll on March 02, 2010, 12:40:50 AMOn a lighter note, who did spot the various references?

Your references are always cryptic at best ;)

I see what you mean, using Wyrd makes sense, but my real problem is whether you'd still apply the usual penalties. One of the criticisms you've received is that you've taken a lot of equipment and skills for a 'risk-free' aspect of the game, I think you should retain the risks of fluffing a telekinesis test, but the Wyrd allows him to test on a Wp of 100. Maybe limit the Wp damage to a temporary D10 for the game.

Have you played with him much? I've found that the best moments are the risk/reward situations, where you know the game hangs in the balance of telekinetically sealing the exit of the laboratory with a cryostasis chamber, and Skoll needs a 35 to muster the strength to pull it off the wall and fling it across the room. Succeed, and the exit is barred and Skolls companions arrest the cornered deviant. Fail, and the mutant emissary escapes into the sewers.

I've done it before - in a risk-free zone, why would you resort to making tough gambles in victory or defeat situations when you can just whip out a gun and be secure in the knowledge that you'll hit with nigh on every shot.

I'm not sure about others, but I don't think the background needs to change at all, however I do think the stats need to be adjusted to represent his skills relative to other people's Inquisitor circles. Strength in the 70s I would recommend for knuckle-headed Catachan veterans for example.

Quote from: RobSkib on March 02, 2010, 01:15:16 AMHave you played with him much?

Well, there is a reason why I use the name for the forums...

I've not found him particularly risk-free. Sure, he's one hell of a shot, but that's not to say he never misses. His sword is nominally impressive (although, as I pointed out earlier, less so than a power sword, which would not be hard to justify for an Inquisitor), but his record in hand-to-hand is variable at best.

I would agree that he's above the Conclave standard and needs his stats toned back to varying degrees, but the whole Wyrd thing has been a core of the character since day one. I've tried to better the explanations I use for Wyrd powers over time (you're reading something like version three); While I'll accept that perhaps the explanations are perhaps not what someone else imagines a Wyrd to be like, I'd like to know where people think I've got it wrong - what do they think a Wyrd should be?

I hate to use the "It's in the rulebook" excuse, as we all know there are things in the rulebook that should only see the table under exceptional circumstances, but it's enough to demonstrate that Wyrds do exist.
If I wanted to take a bolter, people could reasonably expect some justification. My question now is what justification do people think is necessary for the Wyrd ability?

QuoteI think you should retain the risks of fluffing a telekinesis test, but the Wyrd allows him to test on a Wp of 100. Maybe limit the Wp damage to a temporary D10 for the game.

I'm prepared to accept that kind of thing if people think that Wyrd should still inherently contain some (although obviously lesser) risk.

But personally, I'm not all that convinced by the fact that failure on a (conventional) psychic test almost invariably results in brain damage - surely "inconsequential failures" should be more common than the rather rare event of failing by 9 points or less?

QuoteYour references are always cryptic at best

They're not THAT cryptic this time.  Yeah, the references I make in names are usually fairly obscure, but what I've done here is rather less subtle.

But to explain...

- The Tannhauser Gate is lifted from Rutger Hauer's dying monologue in Blade Runner.

- The "Human nature" quote is adapted from the closing words from the Dark Side of the Moon album, along with a few words that were recorded, but eventually omitted from the album. Pink Floyd quotes are common amongst my characters

- The quote on the Inquisitor's escape is taken from the chorus from the Nightwish track "Bye Bye Beautiful", and is indeed sung by the person from who Marco takes his first name...

Also, I have noticed that this is a very wyrd post.

I will go on record here and now saying that this character is exactly what a wyrd should be.  It sounds as though you RP his actual telekinesis in a downplayed manner based on the background.

QuoteIt's not really designed to be a psychic power, but a sense in the same way as you see, hear or taste. The reason why I've slapped some tests on it is so that it's not just "oh yeah, he can see behind himself, so you can't sneak up on him".

This makes sense and I'll go farther to say that sensing mass (when you think about it) is far different than detecting psychic signatures.  A barrel full of fuel that the mutant is standing next to in the room over doesn't have a psychic signature, but if you place a couple nice shots through the wall...

Also, the sword is perfectly fine.  There's solid background on it and the character doesn't even know all it's powers.  It sounds as though you're a pretty faithful RPer and would stick to this Marco so I don't see any problem.

On to stats. 

This is where I get a bit more critical.  It's more of something to take into account, but it seems to me as though an Inquisitor of this ordos should spend more time studying than fighting.  I know your lengthier background may mitigate this but I think it's worth considering.  He is an all around badass at the moment despite being in one of the potentially book-wormier ordos(es?).  I would personally say his stats put him in more of a power-gamer status at this point, which is fine, but since you're bringing him to a conclave event I'm just giving honest feedback.

My gut instinct is dock the WS 5-10 points, take 5 or so away from BS, drop strength 10 to 20 (I like the explanation that he augments the strength with his psychic powers but I'm saying you put game balance in front of background for this one), maybe drop toughness and give him a bit more armor (just say his robes are kevlar and give 2 armor or something), maybe drop WP a little since his wyrdness negates it anyway (give a little here so he has another vulnerability), up his sagacity a tad given the ordos, Ld is good.  I'd also say drop one of the shooting skills and make true grit conditional upon whether or not someone he cared about was in imminent danger (I think this is rather characterful).

Now I know some of those suggestions make for difficult concessions, but I think taking a few of them would make him clave ready.  At this point I'm projecting my image of him based on your background into my modifications and my image may well change if I ever read it in full, but take it or leave it.

Last suggestion, and this is completely off the wall, but this wouldn't be a Wick post if it didn't have at least one bizarre idea that was completely unsolicited.  Why not drop the two shooting skills and giving him a new skill based on the idea that he utilizes his telepathic skills to guide the bullet (ala the miserable film Wanted).  No thoughts onto how this works, I just thought it would be cool and another way to highlight his wyrdness (provided the other shooting skills were dropped for balance).

Anyway, rant over.  Just thought you needed someone to be with you on a few key points/give specifics and logic on stat cutting.

Reading this thread has really been quite interesting, I think it's fully revealed a "Do as I say, not as I do" attitude on your part MarcoSkoll. You claim to want feedback, but seem to be somewhat unwilling to accept much criticism - something that you've disapprovingly noted in others on several occasions. Comments that you deem disagreeable are condemned as rants. Seeing you attempt to justify your choices would be quite puzzling were one to take you at your word. He can be a wyrd because...the sword is like this because...if you read the background you'd see...Well speed 5 is fine, here's why...

That seems to be your thing - write some backstory or explanation and you (as in you MarcoSkoll, not the generic population) are justified in all of your choices. There's seems to be no consideration of balance or fairness or fun...when it comes to your own creations. The most glaring example of this mindset is your use of the term "core reasoning". The background for a character is reason, ie justification, for the power. You seem to treat your fluff as some sort of Holy Cow, a vision that can't be tampered with. I hate to be the one to tell you, but these are toy soldiers. Your fluff isn't a thesis, it's the scribblings of a gamer. You can drastically alter it with the stroke of a key and the sky won't fall. Maybe you should think about doing this sooner instead of later, that way you might have a chance of creating a decent physical representation of the character - something with at least a modicum of substance, instead of all these boring inconsequential words.

Don't worry about bringing them to the Spring Conclave - they're powerful, but won't be out of place. Remember (and this goes for everyone), the GM is arbitrator of what is and isn't allowed in his game. If he decides that a character etc is too powerful, then he is within his rights to change it for the duration of his game. I don't want to see anyone arguing with the GM - his decision is final.

Quote

QuoteMass Awareness as a Skill somehow seems a bit strange, as somebody else already said, it seems to be quite similar in effect to the Detection psychic power.

I had considered detection, but the Mass Awareness isn't designed to be specific to "mental signatures" - theoretically, Marco can see anything of mass... walls, lampposts, small furry creatures from Alpha Centuri.

It's not really designed to be a psychic power, but a sense in the same way as you see, hear or taste. The reason why I've slapped some tests on it is so that it's not just "oh yeah, he can see behind himself, so you can't sneak up on him".

I always saw Detection as an additional sense powered by psychic energies, its therefore still similar to your Mass Awareness. I haven't got any difficulties if you'd decide to bind it to your Wyrd-ability, for balancing reasons, what about increasing the difficulty of the related powers?

Just out of interest, in which way do you represent him being lacking a bit in power(at least I remember something like this in your story), up to now he seems to be a fairly strong psycher.

I agree, making Mass Awareness a wyrd power seems the way to go - like Detection, it's using psychic senses to increase awareness. I see no reason for it to be a skill rather than a psychic power (IIRC I suggested similar 'Detection' alternatives for Inq2 - biomancers detecting life, pyromancers detecting heat etc).

Quote from: Ferran on March 02, 2010, 06:23:52 AMYou claim to want feedback, but seem to be somewhat unwilling to accept much criticism.

If someone questions something, and I give reasons why I went in that direction, that doesn't mean I haven't accepted the criticism of how I went about representing it.

And quite frankly, these characters aren't actually all that "monstrous" compared to the profiles you've given your own characters - I do read your Warseer thread.

QuoteI hate to be the one to tell you, but these are toy soldiers.

Yeah, but they're my toy soldiers.

Quote from: Sarlen on March 02, 2010, 11:13:48 AMJust out of interest, in which way do you represent him being lacking a bit in power(at least I remember something like this in your story), up to now he seems to be a fairly strong psyker.

I've never seen Telekinesis as all that powerful an ability as written in the rulebook. The heaviest mass that can be moved with any reliability, even by a Wyrd, is perhaps equivalent to weights I could lift (literally) single handed.

Compare that to Psychic Impel, which can throw several hundred pounds of power armoured Marine around. If I wanted to represent a more powerful version of the telekinesis power, I'd start by applying modifiers such as halving the weight of objects.

They're probably not monstrous. A touch of sarcasm on my part there. The point being that whilst your speed 5 super-strong, super-smart, psi-boosted, skill laden, legendary sword-wielding, wyrd marksman extraordinaire puts my equivalent character to shame, I don't go around brusquely telling people to tone down their characters.

/Having said that, I agree that Impel is OP and should have a target-based modifier.

Play nicely you two...

This discussion illustrates one of the reasons why I don't post stats and rarely post character background. No amount of text will 'justify' some things in the minds of some people and rather than argue with people, most of whom I'm never going to play against, I prefer to just create my characters as I think they should be and then start using them in games. That way, the feedback I get will be from people I do play and be based on how they actually work in the game rather than armchair discussion about how people think they'll play.  A lot depends on how the character is played, what scenarios he is being used in and so on - things that you don't see when looking at their profile in isolation.  That way I can go away and tweak my characters based on how I see their their performance and the informed comments of other players.

It sounds like Marco's characters are fine in his gaming group, but they're certainly coming in for a fair bit of criticism on here (it does make me curious about what people would say about my characters...). Part of it is that they seem to be intended as a pretty potent warband, however they don't seem totally overpowering compared to the types of characters I see at Conclave events; more powerful than some warbands certainly, but there's nothing wrong with that.  And as the point in posting these characters was as preparation for Spring Conclave, I'll point out that most games at that event won't be a simple win/lose type of thing - if one player has a powerful warband and achieves his objective he might not get as many 'points' as if a player with a weak warband had done the same thing - so there will be mechanisms for a GM to even things out even if they don't want to start tweaking people's characters.

Okay, attempt #2

I've only adjusted the profile and abilities thus far - I'm not sure what I'm going to do as far as equipment. The sword seemed to be the only real area of major contention, and I've already rambled on about that.

---

Marco is right handed.
Skills:Rock Steady Aim
Traits: Soul Bond
Minor Talents: Gunsmith
Wyrd Powers: Telekinesis, Mass Awareness

---

I've lowered everything except T by various degrees. I've not much lowered some things, such as his BS - he is still meant to be a damn good shot, but Deadeye shot is now gone.
And while he's still T 64, if getting rid of True Grit doesn't count for "lowering his toughness", I don't know what does. I may tweak a few things a few points more, but I think I'm in a better ballpark now.

The next thing to discuss is that I'm adapting Mass Awareness as I wrote it before to work as a straight psychic power.
However, if anyone has a better idea for how to represent such a sense, please feel free to speak up. I've already explained it pretty well: Like you can feel your body, he can similarly feel his environment. Obviously not colour, or such like - but potentially, if he focuses closely enough, texture, density, hardness.
I'm not fussed about those kind of fine details, but I'm trying to find a quick and sleek way of representing a sense for physical matter.

On a similar note, I'm looking for suggestions on how to represent the soulbond. As I said in Silva's topic, it's best described as a "gut instinct for the emotions and whereabouts of the other" - and to some extent, their physical wellbeing.
No telepathy, no having to concentrate hard, just something they know without having to think about it.

If it was any consolation, I thought Marco Skoll was a fine example of an Inquisitor, certainly not overpowered. If anything, I would have made his combi-tool more potent (possibly on a Sg test seeing as he's not Cult Mechanicus so can't get the most out of it), but otherwise would have left him alone. 

Looks dandy, however I am going to reserve judgement til I see the model.  If you can make him look as badass and 40k as you can without making him looking like a Studio Ghibli wizard then I think you'll hit the nail on the head with this guy.

Quote from: Kaled on March 02, 2010, 05:51:40 PMNo amount of text will 'justify' some things in the minds of some people.

I don't intend any offence to Ferran by this, he is entitled to his opinions - but I'm not inclined to put much weight on them when it doesn't seem he's considering mine. Background and personality are what I see as the key element in my characters. Posts prefaced with "didn't read it"... well, what am I to think?

To ask a serious question, how can a claim of acceptance of all approaches to the game be combined with what comes across as a display of apathy and irreverence for the roleplay and character driven aspect of the game?

Quotethey're certainly coming in for a fair bit of criticism on here (it does make me curious about what people would say about my characters...)

Well, you know what they say about curiosity and the cat. Some of the criticisms seem to be more levelled at me than the characters - bit of a shame when I went to the trouble of saying that I was posting the characters out of interest in fixing them.

I'm almost tempted to see what would happen I posted up the character sheet for Inquisitor Lord Geirra - would I pick up personal criticism for a character I created 8 years ago and which I have admitted for a long time was a horrible mistake? And if not, why does another situation with a character I created at some point in the past, and which I have said I know needs fixing earn me such?

QuotePart of it is that they seem to be intended as a pretty potent warband, however they don't seem totally overpowering compared to the types of characters I see at Conclave events

It's curious to see how there seems to have been more controversy relating to Silva than the reasonably similarly statted Kai Gillmore (http://www.the-conclave.co.uk/forum/index.php?topic=422.0) - the only thing that has really been questioned is his Adrenal Surge ability (and I'm not too surprised by that one, as I only cobbled the skill together the week before the IGT).

Their abilities and equipment are different, but not exactly unequal. While Silva's weapons might make her pretty brutal in hand-to-hand, she's not clad from head to toe in thick armour.

And in the end, Kai was supplied almost entirely sans background. I wonder whether he got extra leeway because of his origins in GW art?

Quote from: Shard on March 03, 2010, 01:10:52 AMIf it was any consolation, I thought Marco Skoll was a fine example of an Inquisitor, certainly not overpowered.

Well, he's served well so far, but my characters are treated somewhat like my opinions.

I work hard to make my beliefs and opinions justifiable and fair. What that tends to mean is that I've rationalised them very solidly and can present a whole horde of arguments for them - but if someone else should happen to present a more logical and better supported argument than I can, then until the argument for that case is bettered, I have a new opinion.

The same thing applies to my characters. While I don't like to do things that force me to change their canonical history (the loss of True Grit may make a few things a bit odd, but not irreparably), I'll come back and change them if for whatever reason they don't "work".

After my comments on Silva, I suppose I should say something here.

I think Marco's background is interesting and well thought out, his equipment and abilities fit in well with that. I do like the wyrd 'mass awareness', an interesting concept well executed. Glad to see his stats have come down,  but then that is a personal thing.

Again, a personal quibble, the combi-tool advantage - its a small one, agreed, but surely any character could lay his/her hands on a fancy Leatherman if they wanted - why is his so different it confers a bonus? Does his gunsmithing skill really need to roll over into mechanical stuff in general?

My only problem is this Soul Bond, but Ive made my position on this clear enough in the Silva thread and I'll be interested to see what other people come up with for this.

Quote from: Flinty on March 03, 2010, 09:16:11 AMThe combi-tool advantage - its a small one, agreed, but surely any character could lay his/her hands on a fancy Leatherman if they wanted

Combi-tools are not "a fancy leatherman" - they incorporate all kinds of crazy stuff. Miniaturised laser saws, sonic couplers, concussive drills, inductance hammers, electro-agitators and cryo-solderers.

Although it depends on the model really. That's your basic version, but if you've got a bigger budget and good connections with the AdMech, you can get the one that comes with the tool that can both get parallel lines to meet and remove the toughest stains (leaving your red robes redder than red), and a nano re-assembler that automatically inscribes devotional hymns in the molecular structure of whatever you're working on.

I think that explains the difference between a modern day multi-tool and a 40k combi-tool - the latter is a wee bit more sophisticated.

QuoteDoes his gunsmithing skill really need to roll over into mechanical stuff in general?

If you understand the principles of guns well enough to manufacture and modify them, then you it's unlikely you won't have a good grounding in mechanical theory.

Quote from: MarcoSkoll on March 03, 2010, 04:24:00 AM
It's curious to see how there seems to have been more controversy relating to Silva than the reasonably similarly statted Kai Gillmore (http://www.the-conclave.co.uk/forum/index.php?topic=422.0) - the only thing that has really been questioned is his Adrenal Surge ability (and I'm not too surprised by that one, as I only cobbled the skill together the week before the IGT).

It is interesting.  I've just compared Kai's stats to my IG stormtrooper and they're extremely similar - none of their stats differ by more than 10 points and most by only 3-4.  Silva's stats don't seem unreasonable to me, neither does her equipment.  I'm still not convinced about her arm from a background perspective, but rules-wise it seems fine.

As for the revised Marco, I think you've lowered his stats far too much.  His mental stats were fine in the first version - they were about on a par with my younger Inquisitors and lower than some of the more experienced ones which seems fair.  Other than his strength which was higher than that of any of my unaugmented characters (not that there's anything wrong with that), his physical stats were pretty similar too.  I'm going to post Kaled's stats in a moment - maybe we're both going wrong with our character profiles...

Quote from: Kaled on March 03, 2010, 05:39:23 PMAs for the revised Marco, I think you've lowered his stats far too much.

Perhaps. I do look at that profile and think "Hmm".

As far as his mental stats, he was sporting an Sg that was in excess of Lyra - besides the fact she's over twice his age and been serving the Inquisition for almost three times as long, she holds a Doctorate.
That may mean that she should be a higher Sg than she is (76, to save anyone needing to look it up), but in the end, she should almost definitely be higher than Marco.

In the end, when I look back over the topic, while there were some criticisms, there was a reasonable amount of more moderate feedback - the people with stronger criticisms were just more vocal.
What I'll probably do is look back and adjust him again - he was better than I think he should have been, but what I have now isn't right either.

One thing I can say though... I don't think I'm going to be posting Frost's profile. She's meant to be nasty (in both senses), and discussion of such a character no doubt degenerate into a complete mess.

I've been wondering about why your characters came in for so much flak and was thinking, could it be because you tend to have a lot of special rules for your characters?  Your characters tend to have a lot more unique rules than many others - perhaps people tend to see these as making the characters more powerful rather than as adding character?  don't know...

QuoteOne thing I can say though... I don't think I'm going to be posting Frost's profile. She's meant to be nasty (in both senses), and discussion of such a character no doubt degenerate into a complete mess.

That's a shame - I have to say I'm curious about her.

On a different note - have you been working on models for these guys?  Are you still planning to bring them to the Spring Conclave?

Quote from: MarcoSkoll on March 03, 2010, 07:20:10 PM

Quote from: Ferran on March 03, 2010, 06:56:07 PM... and seeing him as 300+ years...

"Into his third century" doesn't make someone 300+ years old. I'm in my first century, but only 21.

Ah yes, prior to your correction I had mistakenly believed that we are currently residing in the C20th, but some basic calculations based on the knowledge that you've kindly imparted have shown me the error of my ways. Your correction was indeed necessary - I suppose it's on account of my sub-160 IQ that I make these silly mistakes.

In all seriousness though, whilst I was under no misapprehension that the verbal mistreatment I gave you in your Marcoskoll thread might permanently silence your backbiting/sniping/generally behaving like some pathetic spurned conquest (never does with your type), I had hoped that there would be at least a couple of days of tranquility. Alas not. I'm sorry you got butt-hurt in that other thread at that other place. Had I realised that you had such a sensitive posterior I would have left well alone, believe me.

Will you continually be sniffing around mt posts with your little jibes and, coincidentally, perfectly contradictory views? Quoting me or otherwise mentioning my screen name in your replies? Making your mildly tedious corrections and thinly veiled references? I suppose I'll find out soon enough with your relpy to Kasthan's post. If so, please be aware that you'll be doing it for the benefit of the other readers (and yourself of course), because although there's no official ignore function, more's the pity, you do have a distinctive avatar to provide adequate warning of your presence. I'll be utilising this to ignore anything that you type. Be under no illusions, I really couldn't care less what you post. The only reason that I dignified your Marcoskoll thread with any sort of response was the fabulous irony contained therein. So congratulations, you've won your little vendetta. I know I wasn't fully committed but for a few posts, however I'll admit that it was some wierd kind of fun, at least for a little while. Sadly I must now return to the real world. I can only shudder at the thought of what it must be like to be immersed in the strange, strange world of Marcoskoll 24/7. Probably real sweet.

At this point I should apologise profusely to the rest of the Conclave community, all members/posters/random anonymous readers and lurkers, particularly the mods/admins. I had hoped to confine this to Marcoskoll's thread but that didn't work out too well, seems that Marcoskoll still wants to interact with me in some fashion. Be assured that it won't happen again, normal service resumed at my end.

But... He's right. I mean, this is the second Century in which I have lived, but my first century (or part thereof) of life...

Leave it. Whatever personal disagreements there are between Ferran and I will no longer be continued on the main forum.

Please leave any discussion of the matter well alone.

I've always liked the character of Marco, I think he's a bit of a generic hero (with the special power, magic sword, saintly attitude and lack of major weaknesses) and I'm a sucker for such characters. Looking at the revised stat line (I've been off the ball replying to this thread) I see no issues. I'm a great believer in the background justifying the stats, so personally don't see a problem with the sword or the high average stats.

I'd be more comfortable if he were a psyker than a wyrd, as I'm not sure wyrds are canonical at all, but you seem to be exploring it interestingly.

I'll take a look a silva later but I'd guess her stats would take more flack than Kai's as he is a storm trooper, so would be expected to have higher stats for the most part.

@Cade - You think the revised statline is better? I still reckon it's too low...  I'd be interested in your assessment of Kaled's profile.

Why wouldn't wyrds be canonical?

Quote from: Inquisitor Cade on March 06, 2010, 08:16:59 PMI'd be more comfortable if he were a psyker than a wyrd, as I'm not sure wyrds are canonical at all.

GW's policy is essentially "Everything is canon", no matter how contradictory it all is. Very much EYHBTIAL.
As Wyrds got their mention in the Inquisitor rulebook, it's therefore pretty reasonable game as far as canon is concerned.

QuoteI'll take a look a silva later but I'd guess her stats would take more flack than Kai's as he is a storm trooper

... whereas she's a Staff Sergeant with 20 years of serving both the Imperial Guard and the Inquisition in very close-in and violent combats. She might not nominally be a Storm Trooper, but her actual combat experience is almost exactly what you'd expect of the longest serving and most skilled of Storm Troopers.

It's not like Storm Troopers are somehow superhuman and able to attain skill levels that no other Guardsman (or woman) could possibly reach.

I'm not saying that wyrd aren't canon, but I don't get them, so in a game I wouldn't really know how to treat them, except by the rulebook interpretation as super psychic power with apparantly no risk, which seems wrong to me.

Looking again at the revised stats, the mental ones (Wp, Nv & esspecially Ld) have suffered a bit much.


The longer serving (surviving) storm troopers would be much more than 20 year vets. I'll need to take a look at the stats of Kai again though before I defend my speculation. I will postulate that the skills of a guardsman turned agent would be rather more diverse, but less combat capable than those of a stormtrooper.

What do you mean you don't get them? I think Marco's given a rather good explanation of what he understands as a Wyrd...

Why would Storm Troopers be more than 20 year vets? Modern storm trooper equivalents (the Special Forces units of the world, according to Gav Thorpe) wouldn't get much more than 20-25 years experience before they drop out (around the age of 40-45). Even thinking that the IG accepts a younger age for raw recruits, 14 or 15, unless their spending rejuv on them, Storm Troopers are going to be wearing down by the time they hit their 30th year of service. Which would imply to me that most Storm Troopers are really only going to have about 10-15 years of experience, and 20 years would be exceptional, what with the horror of the 41st millenium.

I must confess that I've only read the short version this time round, but given the long-term exposure to references to MRS, I'm going to pretend I've got enough background context to comment properly on him.

As Cade says, MRS makes a good hero (I probably wouldn't use the term generic - perhaps 'classical'). As such, I'm in favour of his one fairly unique ability, his high level of combat ability, his intelligence, magic sword and all that jazz.
All of it is background-justified to my satisfaction, and from what I remember of your stance on the matter of how special Inquisitors should be (to justify being chosen as an Inquisitor) the stats marry with the background well.

I suppose if MRS spent much of his childhood learning to shoot, and developed close-combat skill early on as well, the time needed to maintain high levels of both proficiencies would be less than someone who wasn't born into such skills, so it makes some sense that he has physical stats where they are (or even where they were) while still maintaining the mental side of his Inquisitorial post.

I like the Wyrd power, and for balance reasons the test is a good idea - if it was entirely unrestricted, and fluff-only, then I reckon it .would. be impossible to sneak up on a telekine, and that would be fine.

Hopefully my attention span will stretch to Silva's thread as well, and I can see how the stats and skills turn put on her as well. But I've got about two week's worth of Conclaving to catch up on...

Wyrd powers are a topic for another thread, but if a wyrd is more than just a psyker with lots of control then I don't understand what. They seem to me to be more in the vein of X-men powers, which is not a direction I think that 40k needs to go.

I'd have thought that most stormtroopers, assuming they aren't killed off, would continue to serve until they were 60 odd. Weather all of them would qualify for rejuve I don't know, but they come from the same crop as officers and commissars, who regularly get to serve for potentially hundreds of years. Again though, Not a disscussion for here. I'll go and find Kai's topic again and see what he was like compared to Silva.

Quote from: Inquisitor Cade on March 07, 2010, 12:28:57 PMI'd have thought that most stormtroopers, assuming they aren't killed off, would continue to serve until they were 60 odd.

I'd have said 50 something was probably as far as you'd retain the necessary fitness without rejuve, and even that might be optimistic.
And quite a lot of them wouldn't make it that far. 40k warfare is of course much more heavily attrition based than our own.

Is it that much to expect that a warrior of 20 years who's survived without all the weapons and equipment, and indeed the backup of the rest of a similarly equipped and skilled squad, could be of a similar skill level to a Storm Trooper?

I suppose not, but then again, Kai is a veteran too, and a sormtrooper, so I'd have though he would gain skill as well, keeping ahead so to speak.