Ok guys, this has probably been done before, bt has anyone ever fielded a penal legion unit for a game of inuisitor? I had the idea, and wondered what you guys thought. If you could give me some idea of a statline for a penal legion trooper (and a custodian would help) and maybe the special rules to give him, that'd be great.
That depends entirely on who they were before they were sentenced to serve in the penal legion - there's no such thing as a standard statline. If they are a guardsman sentenced to serve then give them the stats of a guardsman (maybe with a lower than usual Ld), if they were civilians who've ended up in a penal battalion then they're likely to have lower stats - depending on how long they've served of course.
As for special rules - they could well be implanted with frenzon dispensers (psychon? Or maybe just causing frenzy?) and wear explosive collars (the convicts are likely to have low Ld, but could receive a bonus if they see one of their number executed by way of his collar). Plus you could maybe include a human bomb - although he's not really the best character for a narrative wargame as his story is likely to be short and messy! They're not likely to have much other equipment - some sort of basic weapon (shotgun, autogun, lasgun), a knife, maybe a flak vest and helmet - and then anything they've managed to salvage.
One thing I will say, if that this sort of single-archetype warband is pretty dull. Why not just include a penal legion trooper in an Inquisitor's retinue, or an ex-human bomb (one whose harness failed to explode obviously) who has now hooked up with your Rogue Trader?
BTW - have you given up on Restin and crew? Or are they still going to be turned into models?
P.S. Your avatar isn't being displayed - or is that just for me?
Naw, Restins still good. I'm just waitinng for my compiuter to start working properly again (i'm on my laptop now, it dosent have a working word processor) so i can load upmy latest characters. Also, i'm hoping someone will post on it before i post again. If you havent read it, it explains restins lack of child in an easy manner.
Single archtype? I would have thought a penal legion would be the most diverse! Its different people in for different reasons, from different planets and with different personalitys and or weaponry. I' thinking:
1.The Custodian
2.An ex-mechanicum guy with loads of bionics. charrged with sabotage
3.Ex-ministorium priest. falsly charged with dereliction of duty
4.Ex-cadian mute. charged with with thievery
5.Ex-valhallan sniper. declared unfit for frontline duty, recruited on the spot.
6.Civilian convict accused of forgery and blackmail. freed by the custodian whilst chasing a target through a dungeon.
7.Ex-Mordian cadet- Charged with desertion
8.Ex Catachan devil hunter. Sentanced to death, recruited on the firing line.
9.Ex storm trooper. Falsely accused of multiple crimes including murder, theft and lieing to a superior officer.
Quote from: Darksinger on January 07, 2011, 09:13:48 PMSingle archtype? I would have thought a penal legion would be the most diverse!
Not really. It for the most part is still mostly just soldiers of one form or another. Most warbands are considerably more diverse, including characters whose backgrounds aren't all based in the military.
QuoteAn ex-mechanicum guy with loads of bionics.
One thing - it is not the "Mechanicum". The Mechanicum is what split into the loyalist Adeptus Mechanicus and the traitor Dark Mechanicum during the Horus Heresy, and has not existed for millennia.
It seems to have become a very common mistake since McNeill wrote that book to assume the two terms equivalent.
oh well. Single archetype warband it isthen. I'm still gonna make them, seeing as i can use the 28mm figs i have already as suitable standins before i get 54mm (after Restin ect.)
Mechanicum- oops. Not much cop with non-guardsman imperial history. He's one of the loyalists.
I wasn't sure what sorts of thing you were looking for when you asked for special rules so I suggested a few ideas but was there anything specific you wanted?
Is the plan for the ex-Stormtrooper to still be equipped like a Stormtrooper and the Moridan to still be in his fancy uniform etc? Or are they all going to be in some sort of prisoner fatigues with just the odd thing here and there to hint at their previous career? What's the custodian going to look like?
They will all pretty much wear what they came in, maybe with their helmets or hats removed. They will all certainly have flak armour on their torso. Also, they will all (bar the custodian) be fitted with penal legion collars (which i'll need rules for. any ideas?)
My Custodian has the following profile (appearance attached)
Colonel Grayham
left handed.
WS BS S T I Wp Sg Nv Ld
56 53 51 56 43 61 58 62 74
Special Abilities
• Leader
• Fearsome
Equipment:
• Bolt Pistol
• Chainsword
• Flak armour on torso, abdomen, groin and legs (3 points of armour)
• Sargents cap on head (1 point of armour)
• Leather armour on arms (also on torso, but armour does not stack) (2 points of armour)
---------------
Apearance
---------------
6 foot 1. Dark blue eyes, Shoulder length grey hair and goatee beard.
---------------
Background:
---------------
Founder of The 18th vostroyan Penal legion, Grayham has never told anyone his true name, exept from the deseaced from his legion. As they die, he whispers his name into their ear as an indication he forgives them for their sins. Should he not whisper the name, the dying goes into death in the knowledge he has not found atonement, and failed in his mission. If he cannot, due to the manner of death, whisper the name, but would have, He instead fires a pistol round into the air. Grayham is an intimidating man, and it has been stead he has sent an ork burna squadron running in the other direction, straight into the path of a bare bone truck, killing everyone on board and all the burnas, most plant life and an unlucky grot in the resltant explosion. Weather or not this is true, Grayhams penal legion belives it enough to know that get on his bad side, you'll end up 6 feet under. Grayham has been the sole survivor of many a mission, although his latest team of legionaires has shown much promise. He has no orders as per yet, so trains his team constantly on board whatever ships he may be upon.
A point on my avatar- Its probably a faulty site. It dont display for me either- gonna change it. Its the dark rider from the dark is rising (played by christopher eccleston) hence the pesonal text
I don't think Fearsome is really appropriate - how does he inspire such fear in opposing characters that they would hesitate to charge him? He's just a tall guy with a beard and bolt pistol.
An explosive collar is just designed to kill it's wearer, so the only rule you need is about how it's detonated and what effect doing so has on the other members of the penal battalion. Does the custodian need LOS to detonate it? Does it detonate automatically if they stray too far from the custodian? Is there a chance of it being detonated automatically when the character is hit in the head? As for the effect, a bonus to Ld and maybe Nv seems appropriate for anyone who saw their fellow prisoner being executed.
Quote from: Kaled on January 08, 2011, 07:08:28 AMI don't think Fearsome is really appropriate - how does he inspire such fear in opposing characters that they would hesitate to charge him? He's just a tall guy with a beard and bolt pistol.
Agreed. I've written rants on Fearsome and its application/misapplication before, so I'll just link to one of those and save myself the time (http://www.the-conclave.co.uk/forum/index.php?topic=648.msg10032#msg10032).
... now read that before going on with the rest of this post.
However, the addendum here is that it would be valid to make him Fearsome to his underlings only - it's unlikely to come into play, but if they were to charge him, it would very probably be fatal (he can activate their collars if he wants!).
the idea was that he was fearsome to his underlings yea, although that wasn't realy made clear. The part about the orks is just a story, but its one of the methods he uses to keep them in line.
So then- Penal legion warband collar-
If the wearer goes outwith 12" of the custodian, the collar will self detonate.
If the head suffers acute injury, roll 2d10. On a result of less than 50, the collar explodes.
Should the custodian die, all models with collars immediatly gain 50 LD (max 80) for D3 turns
The custodian can detonate any collar at any given time, with or without LoS (remote operated)
Any legionaire within LoS of the legionaire whos collar is detonated gains 30 LD and 15 NV.
Should a collar be detonated, the character is instantly killed.
Quote from: Darksinger on January 08, 2011, 08:30:23 AM
If the head suffers acute injury, roll 2d10. On a result of less than 50, the collar explodes.
A D100 surely? 2D10 is always going to give a result less than 50. If he suffers acute injury he's going to be out of the game anyway, it doesn't matter (as far as the game is concerned) if his collar explodes.
QuoteShould the custodian die, all models with collars immediatly gain 50 LD (max 80) for D3 turns
Why? Surely if the custodian dies the penal trooper are likely to just flee the field rather than suddenly get much more disciplined, better at following orders and better at commanding others.
EDIT: Maybe instead lower their Nv for the rest of the game as they're no longer being compelled to fight and are now just looking out for themselves.
QuoteThe custodian can detonate any collar at any given time, with or without LoS (remote operated)
I assume this takes a single action? Or can he literally do it at any time? Is the remote control something he needs to be holding in order to detonate a collar? Or can he operate it while holding his pistol & sword?
Just to throw in my experience of legionnaire collars, we had a campaign where each person controlled one character each due to there being 12+ people in the same campaign.
There was a penal trooper being used and his explosive collar was controlled by a commisar, but the main point I'm making was it was a remotely controlled device that took one action to arm and a further action to detonate.
Needless to say hilarity ensued whenever the commisar armed the device when the penal trooper didn't do what he was told.
Niall
just out of curiosity i was aware that the bulk of penal legions were made up on civilian criminals as opposed to ex guard, i've got a copy of the Imperial Infantryman's uplinfting Primer in front of me and only two crimes actually get a soldier sent to the penal legions (wasting ammunition and not showing devotion to the emporer).
Most punnishments for crimes such as comerdice, desertion, theft, disobaying officers etc tend to invlove being shot, this may vary from regiment to regiment of course but it seems to be standard practice as opposed to wasting effort doing a job which a Lasbolt would do quicker and more effeciently.
Quote from: GAZKUL on January 08, 2011, 11:10:28 PM
just out of curiosity i was aware that the bulk of penal legions were made up on civilian criminals as opposed to ex guard, i've got a copy of the Imperial Infantryman's uplinfting Primer in front of me and only two crimes actually get a soldier sent to the penal legions (wasting ammunition and not showing devotion to the emporer).
I disagree with McNeill there. The penal legions are a popular capital punishment - shooting someone is a waste, and only those who are totally irredeemable or need to be made an example of will be executed on the spot. A dead body is a dead body, a penal trooper has some use.
In my opinion, the penal legions are probably the most common death penalty, either for the military or civillians - but the civilian members tend to be even shorter lived. While there are perhaps more civilians sentenced to the legions, they probably make up a minority of its living members (at least after their first battle).
i'll disagree on that point, while historically using punnishment batalions have been used for such tasks as mine clearence by some countries. untill the mid 21st century death by firing sqad was far more common for misdeeds and it staggers belief that society has actually evolved in the 30 000 or so years since, especially by the imperial track record for ruthless efficiency. a penal legionarry will have to be fed, armed, housed and transported at the expence of the imperium for crimes which could cost all of a single las or stub round to correct, whatever use the pesron may be will be limited and at best they'll buy a few seconds for better men while at worst they'll desert to the enemy.
I'd say in that case its up to the Imperial officials in charge to weigh the options, hence no two worlds having the exact same stance on the issue.
Quote from: GAZKUL on January 08, 2011, 11:49:22 PMIt staggers belief that society has actually evolved in the 30 000 or so years since, especially by the imperial track record for ruthless efficiency.
So ruthlessly efficient that they send legions off to retake the wrong planet, then declare them all traitors when they don't turn up at the fight they were supposed to.
The Imperium is not efficient. Just about everything they do is characterised by either inefficiency or a grim bleakness.
Quotea penal legionarry will have to be fed, armed, housed and transported at the expence of the imperium for crimes which could cost all of a single las or stub round to correct
By that argument, why have penal legions at all?
The thing is, the Imperium always has a use for more bodies. And as penal legionnaires can be mistreated even more than the dime a dozen regular Guardsman, it's an even more cost efficient method way for them to get extra cannon fodder.
Quote...while at worst they'll desert to the enemy.
That's what the explosive collars are for.
I honestly think it depends on the situation and judgment of the Imperial officials. If they are desperate for troops, then a penal legion would be a viable option. If troops are in surplus, then it'd make sense to just shoot them. The values and morals(if any) of a High Command are really the deciding factor, as they attempt(not always successfully) at dealing with what gets thrown on their plate.
Originally, back in the Rogue Trader era, the Penal Battalions were made up of IG and PDF troops who had committed a capital crime and had their sentence commuted to life service. It wasn't said to be a punishment for civilians.
As for whether they're of any use, in his Meditations on Imperial Command (Book XXI) Leman Russ said;
"There are those who undervalue the Penal Battalions. But they should consider this: should a man who has wronged the Emperor be allowed to wrong Him further? For each man executed is a man who can no longer serve, and to fail in service to the Emperor is the greatest of sins."
Quote from: Elva on January 09, 2011, 12:52:31 AMThe values and morals(if any) of a High Command are really the deciding factor
Values and morals have nowt to do with it. The penal legions are still a death sentence*, just one where the condemned is put to some use before you have to dig a hole to put them in.
*Okay, so very, very, very rarely, there will be a penal legionnaire who by some exceptional act fulfils their debt to the Emperor non-fatally and will have his/her sentence cleared. But if the use of three consecutive verys in the last sentence didn't clue you in, this is not common.
That said, it's not a bad background for an Inquisitor character - such an act of valour could well earn the attention of the Inquisition and get you seconded to work for an Inquisitor.
The is one common way a penal trooper can fulfil his debt to the Emperor and have his sentence cleared and that's to volunteer as a human bomb. Some proportion of the bomb harnesses are designed not to explode and anyone lucky enough to survive goes free...
Kay, so maybe the circumstances are more prolific in the decision making process, but individual and cultural biases would play a part at times. Though, the point I'm trying to make is that raising a penal legion or two is up to those in charge and is not necessarily uniformed throughout the Imperium(though there might be some similarities).
Kaled- you seem fixed with the idea of a human bomb... Granted its a way of servin your debt, but not everyone is completely suicidal.
Here is my next character- No. 8 in the list.
Flax 'Diablo' Columbus
Flax is right handed.
WS BS S T I Wp Sg Nv Ld
34 43 51 48 39 39 48 61 44
Special Abilities
• Hipshooting
Equipment:
• Bolter
•1 clip of Helfire rounds
• Long-knife
•Cloth arnour on everything but head and torso (two points of armour)
• Flak armour on torso (3 points of armour)
• Penal legion collar on neck(counts as on head, because a shot to the neck is gonna do about the same damage as a headshot) (1 point of armour)
---------------
Apearance
---------------
About 5 foot 7. brown eyes, bald. Has number 08146318 on his forehead and collar (penal legion number). Muscular.
---------------
Background:
---------------
Flax was a devil hunter on the death world Catachan before his 'mistake', which goes some way to explaining his nickname, and the fact he has a full clip of rare bolter rounds, prehaps even why he has a bolter in the first place. He supposedly shot a comrade in the back with his heavy bolter, although he insists that it was an ambush from a squad of orks. Despite investigations into the appearance of an ork rok some weeks before, and to the fact that the dead mans corpse was found with non-bolter pattern bullets in his chest, Falx had already been sentanced to death by the time his storys were confirmed. Flax was saved at the last minute by Colonel Grayham, sentanced to Penal legion duty literally as the executioners were loading thier guns. A nearby commisar executed the officer in charge for disobidiance after he tried to execute Flax anyway, and Flax was fitted with his collar and imprented with his number. Flax was immediatly dragged off to a mission, whereapon he proved his worth by killing a catachan devil with half the squdron in its grips. Flax was the 7th member to be recruited by Colonel Grayham, and stands as the legions heavy weapons expert.
Before anyone rants at me about how a penal legionaire couldnt have his wargear so rare- he needs something he can use to defend himself with. And he was A catachan devil hunter before- they are quite large (if its what im thinking of) and a bolter would be a fine weapon to deal with them. Hellfire rounds would be useful for geting rid of the buiggest ones too.
i'm curious about how the phrases "5.7" "T= 48" and "Catachan" go together, a bolter is an awfully heavy weapon for such a light build, if he was more muscly then it'd work well.
other than that he looks pretty cool and okay fluff wise but Markoskull'll inevitably blow holes in it so i won't say any more.
Quote from: Darksinger on January 09, 2011, 08:18:18 PM
Before anyone rants at me about how a penal legionaire couldnt have his wargear so rare- he needs something he can use to defend himself with. And he was A catachan devil hunter before- they are quite large (if its what im thinking of) and a bolter would be a fine weapon to deal with them. Hellfire rounds would be useful for geting rid of the buiggest ones too.
Well, I'm not going to rant - but why would a convicted criminal be allowed to keep his old weapons? Surely he'd just be issued a standard lasgun and a fancy weapon like a bolter would be quickly grabbed by someone else. I doubt any quartermaster is going to issue bolt shells to a penal battalion. Just because he used to be a Catachan Devil hunter isn't really a justification for giving him one now. I still don't really understand where he got it - you say his crime explains it, but then you don't mention it.
Quote from: GAZKUL on January 09, 2011, 08:53:33 PMhe looks pretty cool and okay fluff wise but Markoskull'll inevitably blow holes in it so i won't say any more.
I just seem to have this way of picking usernames that people horrifically misspell.
Anyway, seeing as I've been nominated (why, I don't know - I'm not the most fluff literate here by any means) to get on with the business of "inevitably blowing holes in it".
Quote from: Darksinger on January 09, 2011, 08:18:18 PMKaled- you seem fixed with the idea of a human bomb... Granted its a way of servin your debt, but not everyone is completely suicidal.
You seem to have misunderstood the idea of the penal legion. It IS a death sentence. You will keep fighting until you die. If you don't die the first time, they'll throw you into the crucible once again, and again, and again until you finally catch a bullet with your face, or perform a one in a million feat of valour that earns you a pardon.
The human bombs are actually a more reliable way out. Sure, you'll probably die, but you're more likely to earn your freedom than any other way.
QuoteWS BS S T I Wp Sg Nv Ld
34 43 51 48 39 39 48 61 44
A Catachan devil hunter with stats like that? The physical stats of that kind of character should be more like in the 60s, perhaps even low 70s for a couple of them, not 30s to low 50s.
Gazkul's point stands too. Catachans, as my memory recalls, are taller than average, so 5' 7" would be short for them. (This is probably because Catachans are based off ARNULD! in Predator, so share his greater than average height.)
Next, my comments about galactic geography from the other thread stand - your penal legion is made up of troopers who were born thousands if not tens of thousands of light years apart. It's very unlikely they would ever get assembled into one group (and is unnecessary name dropping).
What I do to get around this is write similar worlds in a more likely position. When I wanted a Kasrkin in the Segmentum Pacificus, I wrote the world Tryphosa, a world whose military was heavily based off Cadian doctrine (although a lot smaller, they're not a fortress world), to the point they even borrow from the Cadian language. It's even in the canon that many worlds emulate the Cadian military, although not all of them necessarily as closely as Tryphosa. The difference being that Tryphosa was where I needed it to be.
I don't normally bother with the geographical differences of warbands that may meet, but a warband should try to be internally consistent.
QuoteBefore anyone rants at me about how a penal legionaire couldnt have his wargear so rare
I will go against Kaled here, but while I could perhaps see them issuing a bolter as a special/heavier weapon to a penal legionnaire (although not if they were just planning on using the poor sod as cannon fodder - just the really unlucky ones they send on the suicidally dangerous missions no-one else will do), bear in mind, special bolter ammunition is like hen's teeth.
Hellfire bolt ammunition is the kind of thing you normally need ties to the Ordos Xenos to get hold of, not something they hand out to dead men walking - and if he had it beforehand, they would have relieved him of it upon his entry into the legion. Any gear you still have in the legion is what they've given you, or anything that was so worthless they couldn't be bothered to take it off you.
Marcoskoll- i dont think i have misspealt you name before. if i have, sorry
I know penal legion is a deat sentance, but they dont get a choice to join really- not everyone wants to die for their freedom, some soldiers wouldn't take the chance.
ok, 5'7'' may be short, but space marines are only like 7 foot tall. So either Catachans are huge, or 6'2'' is an apropriate sorta height and im misreading stuff. Also, maybe his stats are a bit low. Will edit soon.
Gazkull seems pretty set on the idea he is thin built. It specifically says muscular in Flax's description, so i dont know where that came from.
Galactic geograhy- Not as unlikely as you think. Many penal legionaires are recruited as the legion passes on missions.
the bolter- i never said his crime justifies the reasons he is keping his wargear. Grayham requested he keep it (shoulda put that in his fluff), for the specific reason flax be used as a heavy weapon guy. Not every enemy they will face is gona be similar sizes to them, so Grayham decided to keep his hands on the ammunition in order to ensure some form of security. I could give a rule to both Greyham and Flax, stating Flax may use the clip of inferno ammo if he is withing 6'' of grayham, who is holding it to ensure Flax dosent get up to anything.
the fact that he's thick set and has a T of below 50 and a S of 51 is the issue, a similar comparison would be to have in the background that a character's a genius prodigy but only give him a sg of 30.
Quote from: Darksinger on January 09, 2011, 09:31:14 PMok, 5'7'' may be short, but space marines are only like 7 foot tall. So either Catachans are huge, or 6'2'' is an apropriate sorta height and im misreading stuff.
Er, what? There's still a foot between a 6 foot something Catachan and a 7 foot something Space Marine.
6' 2" is perfectly normal for humans. I'm 6' 2" , but put me alongside a 7 foot Space Marine, and I'd still appear tiny.
QuoteGazkull seems pretty set on the idea he is thin built. It specifically says muscular in Flax's description, so i dont know where that came from.
It came from his stats! The problem here is the conflict between your background saying "muscular" and the rules you've given him saying "Eh, average - maybe".
QuoteGalactic geograhy- Not as unlikely as you think. Many penal legionaires are recruited as the legion passes on missions.
They don't ship Penal legionnaires around the galaxy, for the reasons Gazkul had covered - unnecessary costs to ship "not yet dead bodies" around. There'll be a closer penal legion, use that one.
I can't see any reason why a penal legion would have been shipped even thousands of light-years, let alone tens of thousands.
TLDR on the rest of the thread I'm afraid so, apologies if I repeat comments already made.
First off:
You've forgotten the deep seperations between the Adeptus groups and the Imperium as a whole.
When Mars has a problem with one of its people it doesn't send them to a Penal Battalion, it deals with them internally. There's too much risk of contamination of the purity of the Machine otherwise - ChronoGladiators IIRC are a good example of what happens when you cross the Mechanicus as opposed to the Archoflaggelants (what happens when you cross the Ecclesiarchy).
Officers in command of Penal battalions, first it's a waste of resources, second there's too much risk they'll be corrupted by their charges. A Commissar is a much more sensible option... especially as he doesn't even have to shoot them if they play up - that's what the explosive collars are for...
No Frenzon dispensers and no Human Bombs - not to mention that it doesn't look like any of these fellows see service in the Penal Battalion as a road to redemption... The rubric is that they're there because they don't have a choice and they're going to do what they're ordered because they don't have a choice - not because if they do their duty to The Emperor then it wipes out their previous sins.