Ok so having been off from work with a severe shoulder injury (old rugby wound lol) ive had nothing much to do but watch movies...and i watched Inception followed by the Matrix Trilogy....i was wondering if anyone thought it would be possible to replicate these into our games...more as background than anything but also to give the players (and the GM) the chance to bend the rules alot more than normal...for instance using the slow-mo kicks from the Matrix...but mainly i want to incorporate the concept itself...whether it be the Dream style of Inception or the idea of 2 worlds...the real and the generated from the Matrix....anyone think this could actually work?
kerby
i`d say yes!
imagine a world controlled by dark mechanicus, that have enslaved the whole population to be batteries like the machines did in matrix...
or a world, where criminals were bound into a machine, were they have to see their crimes over and over again, but from the perspective of their victims instead from their perspective. and their bodies delivering the energy to power that machine...
damn, i tried to get some sleep! now my head is full of disturbing scenarios that will keep me up all night!
It's possible, although it doesn't really fit with the fluff. There's no precedent for immersive realities within imperial tech, although there is something a little similar in the neural interface for titans etc. Possibly the Tau would be able to build one, although it's not really a Tau thing to do, except as a training program (that they've somehow hacked into?).
The '2nd universe' already in the fluff is the warp, or immaterium. Of course, human beings can't survive in the warp proper, but where there is a significant overlap, or demonic incursion as the inquisition likes to call it, the normal functioning of reality, including the laws of physics, can be affected. Something akin to an eldar spirit matrix may also be similar, although the extraction of souls to and from is by no means simple, or easily explained. I guess if you were on an exodite planet, with its world matrix, you might start experiencing vivid 'dreams' with some genuine consequences.
There was actually a section on "Matrix rules" in Exterminatus 10. However, I never particularly liked them, and thought they were out of place in Inquisitor. (So, despite having the issue, I have not uploaded that article to the PDF archives).
Only in a scenario that was expressly a dream state (which itself would take a heap of explanation), or set somewhere where the rules of normal reality didn't apply (on a spaceship with a failing Gellar field, near a warp/realspace rip, on a daemon world, etc) would I feel that reality bending outside the normal psyker rules was appropriate.
I think it's worth saying that both The Matrix and Inception are about visual effects - they wouldn't have worked without the fancy CGI (although, to their credit, they used the CGI to tell the stories, rather than having a laughable plot used as an excuse to show off the CGI).
Because it's not possible to bend the laws of reality to show things like the Penrose stairs on an Inquisitor table, you might find actually incorporating the idea beyond a warrior psyker who can boost their speed/strength/agility rather difficult.
I agree with Marco on this one.
The idea could theoretically happen in the 40k background, but the practicalities of actually incorporating such effects into a game, and still keep it compelling and interesting, is entirely another matter.
It's all well and good when a movie has mind-bending special effects to 'sell' the implausability of an idea, but when you're really just moving little models around a board, it's difficult to get that same 'wow' factor with something that can't be expressed with impressive sculpting or other 'pretty things'.
As Phil says though thats the idea im trying to capture....an evil enemy is in control of it all...having captured an Inquisitor and his warband etc etc and is putting them through a tortue of kinds...much like in Fallout 3 when you have to go into the machine to save your father...you have to kill all the other people in the little world to get him out....thats what im aiming at here....where reality is allowed to be bent slightly...not massively...
kerby
I'd just like to say that inception is a quality movie and i'd advise all here to see it at some point. As for including movie effects in games of inquisitor id like to see the inception dream within a dream within a dream done well but i expect it would take an exceptional GM to include it keep it all tied together and then to time the bump/trigger to bring them all out of the dream state.
In the graphic novel Daemonifuge, an Inception style technique was used by Ahriman to interrogate Ephrael and The Nameless One to try and garner the location of the Black Library.
good idea, don't know how it'd work but i'm sure if you streched the fluff a bit you could do it. besides Inquisitor is about doing whatever you want so go for it!!!
Quote from: Ynek on February 07, 2011, 12:19:49 PMIt's all well and good when a movie has mind-bending special effects to 'sell' the implausability of an idea, but when you're really just moving little models around a board, it's difficult to get that same 'wow' factor with something that can't be expressed with impressive sculpting or other 'pretty things'.
And that is when a good GM would work wonders with just words.
Quote from: Heroka Vendile on February 08, 2011, 12:49:13 AMAnd that is when a good GM would work wonders with just words.
And I do think some of the ideas could work admirably for a pen and paper RPG (including the 40k RPGs).
But when the table has to act as a visual representation, saying "And the universe folds up over on itself" loses something when that sheet of plywood 6' x 4' is still as flat as it ever was.
Well, I know that for a miniature-based D&D campaign, Gabe at Penny Arcade built a set of polystyrene planets, then glued spikes to the bottom of the miniatures so they would attach to them - including the sides. It was rather impressive, but not everyone has the space and time to do such a thing. By his own admission, most of the time his work is over after about 2 in the afternoon, and Penny Arcade offices have space set aside just for D&D.
Quote from: DapperAnarchist on February 08, 2011, 03:42:03 PM
Penny Arcade offices have space set aside just for D&D.
I have to go talk to my HR department RIGHT NOW!
If you had the resources, a two table game might be good - one table with the sleeping characters, and awake ones working around them, protecting or attacking, and the other with the dreamscape/VRealm/Astral Plane/Whatever. It would be a big undertaking though...
Quote from: DapperAnarchist on February 10, 2011, 03:32:21 PM
If you had the resources, a two table game might be good - one table with the sleeping characters, and awake ones working around them, protecting or attacking, and the other with the dreamscape/VRealm/Astral Plane/Whatever. It would be a big undertaking though...
Although, to really "sell" such an idea with the appropriate levels of "wow" factor, it might require lots of strangely coloured, warped 'dream' terrain.... Such as clowns made of balloons and buildings made of chocolate....
QuoteAlthough, to really "sell" such an idea with the appropriate levels of "wow" factor, it might require lots of strangely coloured, warped 'dream' terrain.... Such as clowns made of balloons and buildings made of chocolate....
You could just secretly drug everyone and have their minds expand? That way they'd see it without it even needing to be there? It'd save on the time to model/paint this terrain.
Having played games over two seperate tables i understand how they can and cannot work so that wouldnt be much of a problem....the problem would be having two models for each character...one in the dream state and one in the real world...as the sleeping people in the real world would be unable to do anything...might prove a problem...
Also in Inception do you notice that everyone is uber at their specific job...main guy is awesome fighter as is his 2IC...the changing guy is good at making others believe him...in INQ makin Characters like these would make the game waaaay to easy...they would be really too good at the fighting side of things
kerby
Quote from: MarcoSkoll on February 08, 2011, 01:00:53 AM
Quote from: Heroka Vendile on February 08, 2011, 12:49:13 AMAnd that is when a good GM would work wonders with just words.
But when the table has to act as a visual representation, saying "And the universe folds up over on itself" loses something when that sheet of plywood 6' x 4' is still as flat as it ever was.
Nah, just use hinges. Of course, you could end up with som flattened models. :P