As always i am in the great quest to devise rules for non-standard weapons and as Marko said it couldn't be done naturally i am going to give it a go.
These are just first draft rules and any feedback will be more than welcome, More variants will be on their way, plus rules for a Gas Launcher. i'm curious about drifting gas clouds so any tips as regarding that would be particularly appreciated.
Chlorine gas
Firing methods: grenade, Launcher
Area: D6(spreads D3 per turn for 3 turns before receding by same amount.)
Effects: D6 Damage to chest for every turn spent in gas, counts head armour instead of chest armour when working out effects, Gas masks work as normal.
Mustard Gas
Firing Methods: Launcher
Area: D6, spreads a further D4 for 3 turns before receding by the same amount
Effects: D3 damage to chest per turn spent in gas, ignores armour, gas masks work as normal.
Hydrogen Cyanide Gas
Firing Methods: Launcher, Grenade
Area: D10, spreads further D6 before receding by D6 per turn
Effects: D6 damage to abdomen, ignores armour, stuns for D3, gas masks are at -15, damage lasts until filter is changed.
Quote from: GAZKUL on March 03, 2011, 06:00:32 PM...and as Marko said it couldn't be done...
Please don't misquote me. I said I didn't think
I could do a fair interpretation of them - at least properly, not being au fait with biochemical weapons.
Assuming that you aren't a gas weapons expert either, I would make the suggestion that you write fictional gasses rather than being somewhat blasé by putting real world names on to rules that can only run a scale between highly unpleasant and very inaccurate.
I agree - fictional gasses are a much better idea than real ones. I'm offended by this, but I could be - my great-grandfather was gassed on the Western Front, and took a very very long time to die...
Also, from my understanding, Mustard Gas not only corrodes the lungs, but also the soft tissues of the mouth and nose, and the eyes.
And hydrogen-cyanide is fatal within a few seconds of exposure...
1st has been renamed to Infrius Alpha 2100, 2nd to Moldava 12 and 3rd to Selpha Vertigus
I can see how people could get offended hence the name changes, apologies to anyone who's been offended. totally unintentional, though it shouldn't limit people from trying stuff out, my great grandfather was killed by a sea mine but it dousn't rule out trying to incorporate them into the game.
any advice would be great
cheers
Darn, nijad. I was just about to suggest that a name change would give you a chance to invent some cool 40k style ones.
Have you tried out the rules in a game or two yet? I'd be interested to hear how well they played...
I might be able to do some trials this weekend, currently devising the rules for the launcher, basically a more inaccurate drum mag grenade launcher.
again tips on gas variants would be helpful as my entire knowledge of this subject is based on First year history and wikipedia so is far from accurate.
I would treat the launcher simply as a drum grenade launcher...
I can see why you might want to make it less accuracte - 40mm grenades generally explode on impact while gas grenades will bounce and roll from the point of impact...
I would suggest though that you use a scatter mechanic to cover that rather than making them less accurate implicitly - shooting the protester with the tear gas cannister is afterall something that still occurs, despite its potential lethality.
However, while I don't object on moral or historical grounds to the use of gasses in Inquisitor, I would suggest that adding lethal ones as opposed to tear gas or similar is foolish.
Gas is, and always has been, an area denial weapon and that makes its use in Inquisitor something which you would need to at least be very careful with.
If you place an objective and in the first turn one group lob a cannister of Green Ring-6 on it then the game is stagnant until the gas dissapates or it's pointless because the other group has enviro-seals which allow them to ignore it.
I'd say that gas weapons should be relatively easy to overcome (as in, charging into the cloud to recover the object inside and later spending a little time hacking your guts up). or part of the story rather than part of the game tactics.
I would also suggest looking at the plethora of grenade types which were available in Rogue Trader...
How about making things a little more exciting and explore the 41st millennium and have a think about what kind of technologies would be available to the saviours of the Emperor's soul...
Nanocloud; trillions of microscopic nanobots dispersed in a cloud when released from the grenade, lacerating and shredding anything caught in the area of effect, Area 5, Blast 4, 2D3 damage ignoring all armour types.
Mist of Tears; ultra-rare, psychically engraved grenade containing the anti-psychic potential of a Tear of the Emperor that turns into a fine mist upon detonation. With Area 4, psychic powers cannot draw line of sight through the mist, and anybody within the area of affect are at -15% to any psychic tests for every 1" closer they are to the centre of the grenade.
Blacklung; With seemingly no long-term effects, Blacklung incapacitates the target by causing the lungs to produce copious amounts of foul-smelling, black mucus. Targets can do nothing except succumb to the raging coughing fits that follow. -20% to resistance test for every turn exposed, cumulative over a matter of turns. Target suffers -D3 speed and D6 to injury total. If reduced to speed 0, they become fall unconcious.
Tranquility; The target is feels an overwhelming sense of euphoria, temporarily losing track of what he was doing and... ooh! The pretty colours! Targets become open to suggestion, manipulation and become incredibly averse to violence. Victims must pass a Willpower test before engaging in any hostile action, testing each time until Tranquility wears off.
Gorgonbreath; The targets muscles and sinews begin to tighten, movement becomes harder as if the character was wading through a mire. Once afflicted, the character must pass a S test, or lose D3 speed. Passing the test allows them to regain 1 lost Speed, up to their original maximum. Once afflicted the character must test every turn - passing regenerates their speed, failing drops their speed. If reduced to 0 Speed, they are considered completely paralysed yet still fully concious, capable only of looking on at the battlefield in horror!
Great ideas RobSkib, will try them out over the coming weeks.
Heidfeld I appreciate your tips as regards to how Gas can stagnate the game and have taken it into account, hence the relatively low damage and quicker receding rates for more powerful gases however i don't think they should be ruled out from a tactical perspective, what better way to flush out a particularly cowardly bad guy than to cover his hiding place with a cloud of BK201.
The innacuracy issue has been thought about and dealt with, as a Drum mag grenade launcher is fairly innacurate to begin with the canister will scatter D3 from the chosen point, in addition we have.......
Wind: wing affects gas by a ridiculous amount, with clouds of noxious fumes blowing in the wrong direction if the wind is unfavorable, similarly a particularly canny bad guy may use the wind to blow the gas onto a target who he can't hit from where he is standing. At the start of the game wind direction is worked out by rolling a scatter die with any hits being re rolled, gas will drift D6 in that direction.
Hopefully this will mean that lobbing a gas canister onto the objective isn't as effective as it sounds, bringing a bit more skill into the art of dousing things in fumes.
Quote from: GAZKUL on March 04, 2011, 06:07:57 PM
At the start of the game wind direction is worked out by rolling a scatter die with any hits being re rolled, gas will drift D6 in that direction.
Why re-roll hits? Scatter dice have a handy arrow on the hit side for situations where something always scatters.
I say why re-roll at all? Some days might be still days.
Also, if you are figuring wind, I'd consider variable wind speeds, not just always D6 - e.g. Roll a D10 to determine wind strength at the start of the game (1-4: 1D3, 5-7: D6, 8-9:D10, 10: 2D6). If you get a hit on the scatter dice, it's a still day.
Great idea, forgot about the wee arrow.
Marko: great idea as always, noted and added.
new gas:
BK201
Firing Methods: Launcher, projector
Area: Shell- D10, expands D3 for 2 turns before receding by D3 per turn. Projector- TBC
Effects: attacks metal and ceramite rather than flesh, corrodes armor by -1 pt for every turns spent in gas, ranged weapons weapons become jam prone and and combat weapons add D6 to weight (not sure about this so tips would be very helpful) Non metal or ceramite including power weapons and armor are exempt from this.
some versions of power armour (i think heresy armour) Include a extra layer of ceramite chest plating
Really, I think that coming up with all sorts of different gases is all well and good, but if you're looking for something worthy of the high standards of Marcos' (Thus far excellent) Inquisitor Revised Armoury, I think that giving a series of mix-and-match effects is probably a far more interesting concept.
I've got some house rules that I was working on for toxins, which includes a modest section on toxic gas weapons. The basic idea is that there are various resistance modifiers which relate to how much of the toxin has entered your body. So, for instance, gas weapons give a minimal modifier, but the modifier increases the longer you spend in the gas cloud. Weapons coated with a toxin (such as swords or needler needles) have a very small modifier, as each attack only gives the target a very small dose of toxin. (Essentially, how much rubs off from the blade/needle in a single given attack). However, the most effective weapons are hypodermic weapons, since they actually inject a considerable quantity of poison directly into the target's bloodstream.
With all toxins, I broke them down into a series of mix-and-match style "ingredients" or "effects", in much the same way that Marco's lasguns are created from a series of component parts. I know this is hardly the way that real world toxins are made, but I thought that this was an opportunity to inject a little bit of fun into the mechanic. It's basically an ability to create your own toxin by picking and choosing it's effects.
A toxin with a single effect was common, two effects was rare, three effects was exotic, and four effects was legendary. There were all sorts of toxin effects, such as choking, laughing, hallucinogenics (which were further divided into 'rainbow' and 'bad trip' varieties, with the former being all teddy bears and snuggle bugs, whilst the latter was full of nightmares that even the Gods of Chaos wouldn't envy...), neurolytic toxins, oxygen analogues, clotting agents (like black mamba venom), skin-dissolving acids, etc.
There were even a few gas-exclusive effects, such as 'blinding' effects (like real world lachrymatory agents / tear gases). I suppose that it's possible that someone would have invented an injected toxin which would have lachrymatory effects, but I generally assumed that most tear-toxins would be administered through gaseous form, so listed them as gas-exclusive. However, these rules are considered to be mutable, and like most of Inquisitor's rules, are essentially guidelines that can be bent by the players in the interests of making the game more entertaining.
^^^^^^^
Sounds nifty, I'd very much like to see these gas-weapon house rules if you've willing to post them.
sounds cool, could you post them up?
The basic mechanics are getting tested today in a trial game, so i'll report back on any results or changes.
particularly interested in alternative methods of projection, possibly something along the lines of the Skaven Plague Cencer(?) bearer so keep the tips coming.
cheers
The basic mechanic works quite well with the accuracy being medium at best, though the expansion rates for gas clouds needs to be looked at.
we rolled a light north easterly breeze which lead to more targets being hit than might otherwise have done so, the precise effects of certain gases were nulled by good resistance rolling but RobSkib's Blacklung gas was brought in later on to some success but too little to have much effect on the others. BK201 was used to mixed success after it was deemed that it did not affect carapace or flack armor though a couple of lucky rolls let to an almost fully mechanised tech-priest having a canister fall between his legs to predictable results.
While the mechanic works and dousn't deadlock the game if the launchers are issued sparingly the gas itself remains the biggest issue, though only a limited selection were able to be tested. A second round of tests will be undergone over the next few weeks as i plan to try out all of RobSkib's gases, in particular the ones which don't directly damage the target. Mist of Tears wasn't able to be tested due to the fact that the one Psyker in the game took a sniper round to the head turn 1.
A huge thanks to Frostspear for being the test subject and apologies for coining the term "doing a Lycanson".
For the possible types I'd reitterate my suggestion to go back to the original Rogue Trader grenade types for things like Psyk-out, Anti-Plant, Choke, Hallucagen...etc as most of the suggestions so far seem to have been variations on those original themes.
could you link them?
ok, i have suffered pretty badly at the hands of BK201, and Blacklung (i dont think his Gazzyness has posted blacklung up here). They work pretty well, only he really should put an ammo limet on those blasted things. Its hard going when the entire field is ciovered in gas weapons. Almost impossible.
Anyone who reads my new thread will notice i've got a few gas weapons too- comments would be helpful, but you should know i use the same rules as GAZKUL.
cheers for the feedback, Blacklung has already been posted up by RobSkib, ammo is limited to 6 canisters total and the launcher has been downgraded to a single shot model, experimenting with faster expansion/receding rates.
I've played about with gas weapons before, and I tend to impose negative resistance modifiers on gasses which are particularly deadly.
I agree Gazkul, people seem to pass their resistance tests with annoying regularity, so will often impose a straight-up -20% for any gas-based toxin, and this stacks for any subsequent grenades thrown in the same patch :)
As a minor note, I will also add that any character in my games carrying such weapons tend to be limited to two grenades, three at the very most, as they are incredibly powerful. They should be powerful, that's part of the fun! However, it's not much fun when the board is carpeted with it :(
Most of the rules are still in the experimental stages, particularly the number of canisters allowed. during tests i blanketed the objective which effectively stalled the game for about 7 turns much to the irritation of all involved.
I agree with RobSkib's negatives imposed by gasses.
This seems like a reasonably good place to post up the Complete rules for a Savlar Pattern Rebreather.
A bulky an awkward piece of equipment which despite providing a high degree of gas resistance is notoriously unreliable. Frequently issued to miners and penal legionaries, cheap and easy to make it has varying popularity among the Chem Dogs with some loving and caring for the devices while others finding alternatives at the first opportunity.
Grants 50% Rebreather
Weight: 10 (single cylinder) 18 (twin cylinder)
Grants 2 points of head armour, only applies to attacks from the front
Unreliable: for every turn the Rebreather is in use a D10 is rolled, on a roll of a 1 roll on the chart below.
Twin cylinder includes a Chem inhaler
1: bunged nozzle, the character must spend an action freeing themselves, plus a further 2 actions to unclog nozzle
2: Fractured pipe: is reduced to 10% until the fracture can be repaired
3: minor jam: acts as 40% until end of turn
4: Damaged canister: all future unreliability rolls are at -1
5: Bad air mix: character adds D3 to injury total, must remove mask for 1 turn
6: wrong gas: roll on hallucination chart, Twin cylinder models can re roll hallucination result.