In a thread ealier, a couple of people were discussing the idea of doing something to getting GW's attention (sort of). A couple of ideas were thrown around, such as someone buying a model a month (funds etc kill that idea though). I had an idea that the entire community can do.
I'm not sure if you all have a "wishlist" from the Specialist range, (models that you want but haven't gotten for whatever reason), but i know i certainly do. Now, my idea is that we, basically, save, rob, sell, burn, scrounge the money to get them all on the one day, or as many as is feasible. Basically a way to draw attention to the Inquisitor in a way that GW, as a business, would understand. A whole lot of profit.
In a way, it's more of a community thing, we can get what we want, either to add to a warband, get a few parts you're looking for and can use to convert with or create a new and different character, and then show each other how the progress goes. The upside for us is that we as a community get to do something together, the upside for GW is a decent amount of money.
So, is anyone else up for getting our Wishlist's?
Is it ok if I have only one GW model on my wishlist? Currently, I have plans for some scratchbuilds, two models based on the Devout sisters (that's one purchase), and a couple based on non-GW models.
Any is perfect, the quantity isn't the thing, it's more the act of getting one.
The problem i'm having is that i've gone from Slick Devlan, Barbaretta, Malicant and Josef....
To those three, plus the Thorian Inquisitor, Eisenhorn, Gruss and Navis Nobilatai...
My advice is to not bother. Buy your models when you need them, because even with the whole forum coordinating to buy on just one day, it won't make much more than a smallish blip in the sales that could be discarded as a statistical anomaly.
And however successful, one day of freakishly high sales wouldn't be enough to make GW rethink their policies on Inquisitor - sales would need to permanently rise to provide a challenge for the Big Three.
While I did deliberately schedule a recent purchase so I made it at WHW, and indeed for the sake of just being obvious that I was buying Inquisitor stuff, I don't really believe it did any more than make a couple of the store staff think a bit more about Inquisitor that day.
If you want to make GW think about Inquisitor, then you're more likely to have success by coaxing the forum into recruiting new players en masse. They'd probably start noticing Inquisitor events that were booking a large chunk of the WHW hall on a regular basis, but us few using a half dozen tables twice a year won't cut it.
I'm afraid I agree with Marco - one day of slightly higher than normal sales isn't going to do anything, and even if it was brought to the attention of someone high up why would they decide to support Inquisitor more? Wouldn't they just think it good that Inquisitor still sells even when they don't support it.
Better I think is supporting Inquisitor in the community - recruiting new players, writing new articles for DM, organising games in your local area, anything to raise the profile of the game that'll bring in new players.
It's a shame that as customers we are in a no win situation-stay as it is,with no support,taking over, or we all go mad, spend our savings on models, at which point they go "look at that, its selling" and put the prices up.
With all the talk of the switch to resin, we will have to wait and see.
Would I be wrong in saying bloodbowl gets much more support,and occasionally new models? But then it has a much larger following-just look at naf and the several rounds for the tourney each year.
My 2pence for what its worth-what is the feasibility of getting it back in shops more,then maybe inter shop stuff. Even area managers arnt so stupid that they can't notice trend, and it also might get people playing-I really struggle down my way for games, but if I get 1 person to play with me, its got to be good, if I do it store, there might be more!
Quote from: dirkthe1 on April 14, 2011, 07:22:52 AM
It's a shame that as customers we are in a no win situation-stay as it is,with no support
I'm curious - do people really think there's
no support for the game? Sure, GW doesn't support it but what about Dark Magenta and other community projects? As someone who contributes to both I find it rather disappointing and discouraging when people keep saying there's no support for the game. The material released by Dark Magenta seems to me to be at least as good as the GW stuff (plus some of it is by the same writers, thus explaining why it's just as good). So why do people keep complaining there's no support? Is support from the community not as good as support from GW?
Or maybe the question should be - models aside, what support do you want to see for the game?
Quote from: Kaled on April 14, 2011, 07:48:53 AM
Quote from: dirkthe1 on April 14, 2011, 07:22:52 AM
It's a shame that as customers we are in a no win situation-stay as it is,with no support
I'm curious - do people really think there's no support for the game? Sure, GW doesn't support it but what about Dark Magenta and other community projects? As someone who contributes to both I find it rather disappointing and discouraging when people keep saying there's no support for the game. The material released by Dark Magenta seems to me to be at least as good as the GW stuff (plus some of it is by the same writers, thus explaining why it's just as good). So why do people keep complaining there's no support? Is support from the community not as good as support from GW?
Or maybe the question should be - models aside, what support do you want to see for the game?
One thing I have seen- as I am new to the game-is the fact that it is the community and not GW providing the support.
I think its more when you ask people- clubs etc, which i have whilst trying to find games- is that the concensus is that its dead, gw arnt interested, etc. I add that I direct them to here and similar. But you are right, with all the stuff that is being created, what exactly do we need GW for?
I guess from my point of view the question would be what is to stop another company producing models for the game- independant of GW, thereby dispelling the myth that the game is dead?!
Quote from: dirkthe1 on April 14, 2011, 07:22:52 AMWhat is the feasibility of getting it back in shops more?
Depends on the manager and how many of his regulars he'd tick off by saying yes or no. But many stores won't allow Specialist Games to be played on their tables.
There are various reasons: "Too complicated, and might put passers by off" (as if 40k is something you could make heads and tails of from a glance), "Not a core product carried on our shelves for immediate sale" and assorted other piffle.
Of course, you might find a manager who can be coaxed into it. Some of them will have been fans of it previously or be won over by pretty models (but really, no pushing your luck by using non-GW models).
Quote from: dirkthe1 on April 14, 2011, 09:07:53 AMI guess from my point of view the question would be what is to stop another company producing models for the game
Trademarks, Copyright and all those other things which fall under the mass term "Intellectual Property".
You can make 54mm models perfectly legally. You cannot however sell them as 54mm Inquisitor models, because GW have the trademark on selling miniatures under that name.
Quote from: MarcoSkoll on April 14, 2011, 09:38:44 AM
Trademarks, Copyright and all those other things which fall under the mass term "Intellectual Property".
You can make 54mm models perfectly legally. You cannot however sell them as 54mm Inquisitor models, because GW have the trademark on selling miniatures under that name.
Yes, but why dont GW allow someone to do it under licence- they arnt interested in doing much for it, and as established, its pretty much run by the community. They are unlikely to, i admit, but has anyone ever asked?!
As you said, it would be difficult to get back into stores, but I geuss avery shop you get it back into is a small victory.
Quote from: dirkthe1 on April 14, 2011, 10:20:21 AMYes, but why dont GW allow someone to do it under licence
Because
only GW sell GW models. They did once or twice licence things in the past (places like Armorcast used to produce Titans), but all those things have either been brought back in house, or are merely contracted out to then be sold under the GW name.
They've licensed out the RPGs because a roleplay game is not something GW see as a threat to their vision of themselves as predominantly a miniatures manufacturer - their rules are simply marketing for their models. A roleplay game isn't going to yield huge miniatures sales, but if there's a company who's prepared to pay you for the privilege of doing more marketing for your main product...
To be honest, while I think FFG have made a few goofs (adding most of an order of magnitude to the crew numbers for 40k ships) and need to hire more proofreaders, I think they're doing the more important work for now (and they will, as far as I can tell, continue to do so) because they're developing the background - which, in my opinion, is Games Workshop's greatest strength. After all, it's not GW's flawed rules or insane prices that've kept me in the hobby for this long...
Again we're back on models - but is lack of new GW models what people really mean when they say the game is dead or not supported? And why is continued support seen as that important anyway? What support does the game need? Why do people care if GW take an active interest and release new stuff or if the community does it? Given all the whining I see on 40K forums that the new codices are rubbish etc, I'd have thought some people would be happier with less support from GW...
Dont get me wrong- I personally dont see an issue with them not being involved. However the general feedback I'm getting from clubs, etc when I ask if anyone plays is that GW dont support it, etc, etc. If that is what people are thinking then the question is how exactly do you change that thought?
Well, that's kind of my question - if we understood why lack of GW support is seen as such a bad thing (even when there are other sources of support) then it might be easier to influence that view and make people think more positively about the game...
GW like to make profit, GW make this profit by making pretty new models which require a pretty new book which requires a revamp of the core rules and again a pretty new book. what im saying is every couple of years gw pretty much add to or redo every single Army in there WHFB or WH40K Ranges this leads to people devolping shiny syndrome going out buying en masse and in bulk a tonne of product for which ever army is flavor of the month this month (look on warseer at the amount of grey knight blogs last month and go further back and see all the dark eldar ones). This makes them money a basic army including associated books is going to set you back about £100. Right now to start inquisitor it could cost you about £5 (if you have the ability to sculpt and a good idea). This is the source of gw's lack of support, and personally although i would love new inquisitor models to be released and new articles to be posted by the games creators im more than happy with the support the game currently recieves from the community, well thought out articles by veterans of the game who have an in depth knowledge of the 40k universe.
Infact GW in a way do support inquisitor, by allowing FFG to produce the WH40k Roleplays they add content to the universe ideas and characters for us to draw from and help us pad out and fill our naratives (which is what inquisitor is, a Narative wargame)
I guess its much like the fandices or any of the codices produced by the codex project- they are never going to be GW approved (well unlikely to) by are slowly becoming more well known.
I think this is just an example of almost the entire of GW product lines- all of them are in some way starting to have a massive community input.Without jumping on the "i hate matt ward" bandwagon some of the fluff is starting to become a little strained and this is only playing up to it.
Out of interest, has it ever been suggested to put out a independant specialist games/inquisitor magazine- maybe even get a doc butchas klinik-esq section, etc. but by combining it with specialist games you would get a better spread, and maybe even convert a few. Throw in articles on combining BFG, AI, Epic, and 40k like WD did years back (not that I'm attempting to teach anyone to suck eggs), etc and I wonder how many people would pick the game up? Get a few people to plug it on podcasts and bobs your uncle!
I wouldnt have found this place if Kaled hadnt directed me here, i wonder how many others there are out there who havnt been quite so lucky??
When I get the chanse, while building up 54mm minis, I try to introduce people at my local club using hastily prepared characters made of 40K figs. last sunday this was a big hit. this sunday I plan to do a game based on the mechanic on Dawn of war 2 which I played yesterday at a friends house.
I've been planning to sculpt some cyberpunk genre models, and I would be happy to try and put out one to two models every two months so long as I can find a reliable caster.
Gav's our inside man when it comes to casting - I'm sure he can point you in the direction of some good people.
The game isn't dead by far, in fact, I know more people than ever before who play it, only we play inq28 because of model availability. GW of course won't release new models but as can be seen many people make their own. GW still supports the game by hosting some of the files. The community has proven to be capable of the rules side and more and more fluff is being developed all the time.
I see GW policy regarding support of -][- as sort of a good thing in that by not telling us how it is all the time like they seem to be doing with 40k and WFB we have a much free-er reign to do as we will, like the other games used to be. It would be nice to see more support from the miniatures side but the other side is more than catered for through the community and GW even publish the rules online for free.
Around the time that Fanatic magazine colapsed support and model releases for all specialist games seemed to dry up, I don't think it's fair to say any of them have strong support from GW and TBH we're kind of lucky as 54mm models are very easy to get hold of.
If anyone out there has good quality gothic cyberpunk 54mm minis they think are suitable for casting and commercial sale, send me a PM with a link to some pics.
If I'm persuaded that they are marketable, I'll handle the casting and marketing and spilt the profits 50/50.
R.
Quote from: precinctomega on April 17, 2011, 05:46:36 PM
If I'm persuaded that they are marketable, I'll handle the casting and marketing and spilt the profits 50/50.
This actually sounds very tempting.
Do Imperial Joygirls sound like an interesting and marketable model line?
Interestingly, on the note of Inquisitor, GW's attitude to it and the scale of the player base, my narrowboat trip has brought me up to Oxford.
In a trip into the city to try and get a USB flash drive (to try and back some of the more important stuff on my horribly broken laptop up, if possible), I ran across the GW store, and figured I'd at least take a look.
The store guys seemed happy enough to talk about it, but rather more interestingly, there was someone in there painting an Eisenhorn conversion. Apparently he's one of three store regulars who play Inquisitor (although I don't think they play at the store).
And yes, he does know of The Conclave, but he says he hasn't got around to joining yet because he finds Kaled scary. :P
But I did tell him that he should get around to it sooner though, because it was a damn good paintjob.
Either way, it does bring me back to my earlier point - we need to try and find the players that are out there (and they are out there), or just plain make new ones, because even GW might understand the game hasn't been forgotten if our events turn into dozens of tables.
Oh dear - have I taken Charax's role of the scary Conclaver? Maybe I should change my avatar to a fluffy bunny if it'll encourage more people to sign up...
its weird because on here your a figure that a lot of us respect for your insight and your modelling ability and that respect creates an aura of authority around you but in reality your just a friendly chap happy to chat about his hobby. its interesting how respect turns into fear
If Kaled is the new Charax, then the Conclave must be one of the friendliest forums out there. Not that Charax was mean, as such, but he was very outspoken. Though usually right, if a bit pessimistic.
To be honest, I was actually a little surprised that I'm not the scary one! I do try to avoid being rude and/or disrepectful, but I do often launch into rather in-depth critiques of people's characters and rules...
Well having been on both the old and the new 'claves I find it pretty interesting what kind of reputations people get.
Charax was always the scary fluff one. Scary but Right.
PO was the one who was only scary if you didn't have a model for the character you'd posted up.
Kaled was never scary as such- I mean you're ability with a brush is scary, but I've never felt scared of you so to speak.
Marco you're just scary because you know so much!
Quote from: Aurelius 12 on April 18, 2011, 11:17:53 PMMarco you're just scary because you know so much!
I haven't yet worked out where my "Knows everything" reputation has come from. I really don't!
~~~~~
Following from the above note about my critiques, I've just noticed Dionzi's threads have gone missing... I do hope he's not leaving because of something I said about his character.
Quite aside from not wanting to be driving people off the forum, I was rather looking forward to seeing how that sculpt was going to turn out.
Quote from: MarcoSkoll on April 18, 2011, 11:44:54 PM
I haven't yet worked out where my "Knows everything" reputation has come from. I really don't!
It's probably a combination of your speed of answering, ability to answer on anything and general awareness of the rules. Whether you're 100% totally correct is obviously a different matter (although I don't think I have any complaints yet!). It is rather odd about Dionzi's threads yeah, I was intrigued by his note about an Artemis conversion, but I think that was more the fact that the general attitude to his characters probably wasn't what he was expecting.
Anyway, back on topic for a brief moment...
I'm not really sure that a blip like a deay of sales would make much difference, but then as many people have said, it's not like GW can
stop us playing inquisitor. Just stop us playing in store, or in WHW at worse...
Quote from: Aurelius 12 on April 19, 2011, 12:18:16 AM
it's not like GW can stop us playing inquisitor. Just stop us playing in store, or in WHW at worse...
Must fight urge to yell FREEEEEEEEEEEEEDOM! in a terrible scottish accent.....
I have to say that although GW do produce some useful bits (weapons etc) in thier kits, the figures themselves are a little...limiting. Obviously, looking at the modelling section here you can see that even with a handful of base figures, a whole myriad of characters can be produced. But dont forget that there are a significant number that are not GW products or use GW bits just to add a 40k flavour - never mind the increasing number of self-sculpts.
Whilst GW may act as an introduction or gateway to Inquisitor, Kaled is spot on when he says that the community should be the focus of attention. Sure, FFG are doing a fine job with DH which provides some nice ideas, fluff etc, but for me it is things like Dark Magenta and the posts on here that keep my interest going on a regular basis (ahhh...big forum man hug).
GW's business model is unlikely to revisit Inquisitor, and may even scale back thier production in future - dont forget the release of the Hobbit will kick start thier LOTR range all over again; and they will continue to focus on the core 40K and WH ranges above all else.
I sometimes think its only the presence of Jervis at Lenton which keeps any of the specialist games in the managements minds. Bloodbowl is a good example of how the community keeps things going, but as its one of his pet projects, one of the older games and which also has a PC/X-Box gaming tie-in (going cheap on Steam last weekend), its going to continue to have a much higher profile than Inquisitor as the newest (and last I think? ) specialist game release.
This means I have no excuse for not starting something suitable for half a page in DM now...
It could well be time for a "How much does Inquisitor really need GW's support?" opinion article in DM.
Good idea - maybe a few of us could collaborate on one that covers background, models, rules and events. And perhaps some of those people who think GW support is needed could add their perspective or maybe give questions for the rest of us to address.
Works for me. Do we perhaps want to fire up a Google Wave if we want a collab project?
I think everyone just working on one "living" document rather than people just working on their own fragments would allow everyone to inspire each other with different notes and ideas - and perhaps actually keep the article moving.
I mean, I've still got a section I wrote for a collab article on "GMing and the ethos" sitting around (as I managed to save it from my laptop), but no-one else has spoken to me about that project in ages...
I'd be up for a GMing article!
It wasn't just GMing, but how a GM should get players to keep to the ethos of Inquisitor.
We were supposed to have enough writers on hand, but it's not been going anywhere (although perhaps we've all sitting on a piece of article wondering what happened to everyone else), so do talk to Derek if you want to chip in and try to get it moving again.
Still, this is a tangent. With that in mind, I return you to your regularly scheduled thread...
Quote from: Kaled on April 18, 2011, 01:17:44 PM
Oh dear - have I taken Charax's role of the scary Conclaver? Maybe I should change my avatar to a fluffy bunny if it'll encourage more people to sign up...
Quote from: DapperAnarchist on April 18, 2011, 05:58:50 PM
Not that Charax was mean, as such, but he was very outspoken. Though usually right, if a bit pessimistic.
Quote from: Aurelius 12 on April 18, 2011, 11:17:53 PM
Charax was always the scary fluff one. Scary but Right.
Charax doesn't like being spoken about as if he's not here.
Charax is
always here
He's just...busier these days
Oh, did we annoy the immortal Daemon Prince? :P
Quick! Recite the Canticle of Daemon binding! Maybe, with all of us together, we'll bind him better this time!
Emperor save me. Bind this Demon and trap his soul. Through this kinship, I ask thee. Trap this deamon forevermore. this the one. if I got it right, lets all say it and bind Charax the demon prince.
Gents, this is just devolving into silly chatter now. Back on topic, please, or let this thread die.
Sorry boss, just adding a light hearted atmosphere to the thread. Delete my post if you want to.
I apologise - I thought it was good for a laugh. Feel free to remove the silly chatter.