Hey all, another WIP i'm starting, this time I'll post the warband's stats too, probably tomorrow since its late. Anywho, this is the beginning of a renegade Tau warband. First up is the de facto leader, a young, disillusioned, idealistic fire warrior who's gone rogue, enamored with the ideals and idolization of O'Shova or Commander Farsight and determined to make his own way (with the help of some friends, of course) in the galaxy.
I used the Papah minis Tau Shas'ui (or Alien Commander to avoid certain IP issues). I altered it so that he's in a classic "samurai" pose, in the process of drawing his bonding knife. I need to sculpt his hands with green stuff.
(http://i60.photobucket.com/albums/h29/cthulhu08/P1010005.jpg?t=1303799106)
(http://i60.photobucket.com/albums/h29/cthulhu08/P1010004.jpg?t=1303799134)
I also need to resculpt part of his shoulder/upper back, in order to fill the gap here
(http://i60.photobucket.com/albums/h29/cthulhu08/P1010006.jpg?t=1303799214)
What do you guys think? I tried to file his torso a little where I reposed the right arm, to make it look more natural as he reaches across his body to draw his sword.
Quote from: Lucidum on April 26, 2011, 07:28:18 AM...in the process of drawing his bonding knife.
Correct me if I'm wrong, but isn't the bonding knife purely symbolic, and not intended as a weapon?
It's all about that knife having symbolically drawn the blood of all the Tau bonded to it (sort of a "blood bond"), so using it to draw the blood of another outside that bond sounds rather unthinkable. I imagine a true bonding knife is only ever rarely unsheathed, and almost exclusively for ceremonial or "honour" purposes.
I prefer the idea that it's another blade entirely. And given he's idealising Farsight, a big proponent of hand to hand combat (well, bigger than most of the Tau race), it wouldn't be that unsurprising he might carry a dedicated close combat weapon.
The model's looking pretty excellent so far. Good job!
Although purely because I've studied asian sword martial arts, I could pick the pose apart, but all my nitpicking could easily be explained away as being part of an alien sword martial art, or simply the Tau not being very good at it. :P
But if you're really wanting a samurai pose, his right hand should be closer to the finger-guard (tsuba). Additionally, in the majority of cases, (with only a couple of leg-slashing draws being the exception) the tip of the blade (kisaki) should never be lower than the pommel (kashiri) until the blade is drawn. And don't even get me started on his footwork. It's a common misconception that you sword-fight with your arms. The truth is that all of the skill and expertise is in the footwork.
Anyway, like I said, that's just if I'm being really picky, and there's a million and one excuses that could be used to dismiss such arguments.
So, what sept are you planning on painting him as? Farsight enclave? (To be in line with the close combat theme?)
That is a good point, Marco. I usually see the bonding knife as smaller than a sword as well, perhaps it is just an awesome tau-katana, and I'll hang a plastic fire warrior bonding knife on his belt below it, in a position how a samurai usually carries a katana and a shoto together.
And yeah, I know the pose isn't perfect but I couldn't find a great reference pic, and besides he's a tau and it's not precisely bushido he'd practice :P
As for the enclave, he's not a part of farsight's sect, he's younger than that, grew up hearing about farsight's great deeds, only to join the ranks of the tau military and find that Farsight's long gone and broken away from the greater good. He's inspired by farsight, but holds his own ideals. I plan on having his sept symbol look like it's been chipped or scraped off.
Really the most brave conversion I can remember of this model, and looking cool so far.
About the pose, I think you'll need to work in the right arm rather than on the torso: you can try to remove material from the fabric over the armpitt area and even a bit of the right soulder pad edges. It will be non-solid parts that will fold and adapt to the solid parts. Don't be afraid to use green stuff to sculpt a few folds at the end.
Here there is a model in a similar pose that came to my mind when just saw your conversion, I hope it helps with arms and hands http://www.pegasomodels.com/productdetails_en.asp?id=553
Regards
I would be tempted to cut off the shoulder pad and vambrace and sculpt a new right arm - at the minute there's far too big a gap between the torso and shoulder. A good way of getting the pose right is to stand in front of a mirror with a stick and see how your arm moves and how your sleeve folds.
It's a nice pose you're going for - should look good once it's done.
Quote from: Kaled on April 27, 2011, 05:55:25 PM
I would be tempted to cut off the shoulder pad and vambrace and sculpt a new right arm - at the minute there's far too big a gap between the torso and shoulder. A good way of getting the pose right is to stand in front of a mirror with a stick and see how your arm moves and how your sleeve folds.
It's a nice pose you're going for - should look good once it's done.
Yeah, I was worried about the arm too, and I'm not nearly good enough at sculpting green stuff to sculpt a new arm...not sure what to do
Just give it a try and you might be surprised what you can too - sculpting a new arm is not too difficult. I suggest you make an armature of wire to get the size and position, the cover it in greenstuff to get the basic shape right, then sculpt on a top layer with the detail of the cloth. And if you use the original shoulder pad and vambrace it should look pretty good.
I think that the real problem is that to achieve the pose you are after, to body rotates all along the spine from the waist up to the shoulders, and the mini clearly isn't doing that. Re-sculpting the shoulder isn't going to be enough.
Quote from: kierkegaard on April 28, 2011, 04:59:57 PM
I think that the real problem is that to achieve the pose you are after, to body rotates all along the spine from the waist up to the shoulders, and the mini clearly isn't doing that. Re-sculpting the shoulder isn't going to be enough.
Yeah, I know that all too well >.< I'm simply not good enough as a sculptor to do all of that.
No one is until they practice - just resculpt the arm for now, the pose won't be perfect but it'll probably be close enough to give the impression you're after. And don't worry if it goes wrong the first time (which it probably will), or even if it goes wrong the second or third time - as long as you learn something each time then you'll get it right eventually. We've all had to go through the stage where we're not good enough to achieve the look we're after but it does get easier...
is This (http://buildyourimagination.co.uk/minis/guide_repose.php) any use?
like Kaled says, it's not till you try that you find out what you can do :D
luckily greenstuff, once dry, can be peeled off and you can try again if you aren't happy with the results :)
EDIT: fixed.. cheers :)
Gav, the link does not work. :(
http://buildyourimagination.co.uk/minis/guide_repose.php
Quote from: greenstuff_gav on May 01, 2011, 09:02:41 AMluckily greenstuff, once dry, can be peeled off and you can try again if you aren't happy with the results
Or, if you need a less drastic result, it can be reworked with a modelling knife.
I probably shouldn't admit just how much of my sculpting is about going back and adjusting with a knife - but then, it'd be stupid to
not go back and fix things I'm not happy with.
Yeah, I find my set of needle files invaluable for sorting out folds in cloth or smoothing off areas that weren't great when I first sculpted them.
Quote from: Kaled on April 30, 2011, 11:39:27 PM
No one is until they practice - just resculpt the arm for now, the pose won't be perfect but it'll probably be close enough to give the impression you're after. And don't worry if it goes wrong the first time (which it probably will), or even if it goes wrong the second or third time - as long as you learn something each time then you'll get it right eventually. We've all had to go through the stage where we're not good enough to achieve the look we're after but it does get easier...
Words of wisdom, I think we all began by sculpting a head, an arm or similar for our conversions in the first place. Don't be afraid to try.
That said, you could try to cut under the shoulderpad, and then work on it so you remove the surrounding cloth material. In the remaining arm section you could work to leave the union area with a wedge shape, by abundantly sanding the face in contact with the chestplate. Then you could adjust the shoulderpad in the proper place with Green Stuff, let it harden. Then it will be easy to finish the arm with some more GS folds following the existing pattern, the samurai linked before and some pic of you in that pose as references.
Hope this helps, happy sculpting.
Regards. ;)
Quote from: MarcoSkoll on May 01, 2011, 01:22:03 PM
I probably shouldn't admit just how much of my sculpting is about going back and adjusting with a knife...
I find that cutting into already cured greenstuff is an invaluable technique for getting hard edges and corners on things like armour or weapons. (To give a recent example, Victoria Murae's backpack, or the details on her plasma blade.) Of course, plasticard is still my material of choice for such things, but sometimes, it's just easier to get into an awkward area or make an awkward shape with green stuff.
But yeah, my point is that cutting cured green stuff with a knife isn't something to be ashamed of, in fact, it's an easy, quick, and very effective technique. :P
Quote from: Ynek on May 03, 2011, 03:53:53 PMSometimes, it's just easier to get into an awkward area or make an awkward shape with green stuff.
Definitely. I tried to make the air intake fans on my (as of yet still unfinished) Rhino out of plasticard, but eventually got fed up with trying to use such small fragments of card and just sculpted the things out of ProC.
Indeed, I do often deliberately leave things to harden and be trimmed later. But I'm referring more to going back and fixing mistakes rather than doing it as an intentional technique.
I find 'editing' my attempts once they have set, either by carving with a scalpel or micro chisel, or just sanding with fine wet and dry paper, to be much easier than actually pushing putty around with a sculpting tool. Do whatever you feel comfortable with - the end result is all that matters in this case.