I'm wanting to expand my fluff knowledge of 40k and get a decent read in at the same time, I have almost all the DH books, but want to read an actual story as well now to get a better grasp of the 40k universe.
Knowing from other post here, that there is a lot of less than accurate or reputable material out there, I was wondering if people could put together there top 5 or top 10 lists for books the feel encapsulate the Inq side of 40k or important aspects of it and are pretty good also.
I've already read the Eisenhorn books and majority of Gaunt's Ghosts ans have the rest to get through.
Any suggestion would be good :)
Cheers in advance dudes and dudettes!
Rob
The Calpurnira series - Legacy, Blind, and one other, collected as Arbitrator, I think - is rather good. The short story collections are good too - Let the Galaxy Burn and Planetkill (with a story by PO!) are the two I've read. The HH series has a suprising amount of applicable background and ideas, with the best for Inquisitor being, at a guess, the Age of Heresy short story collection, Nemesis, Legion, and Mechanicum.
The Inquisition War trilogy!
Duh obviously :P
Quote from: Inquisitor Octavian Lars on May 11, 2011, 05:48:57 PM
Duh obviously :P
Just because they're called the Inquisition war trilogy doesn't mean there any good :P
I can call myself superman,,,but I sure as feth ain't super ;D heh
Thanks for suggestions anyway, manged to pick Inq triolgy for 8 quid :)
If you like Eisenhorn then the Ravenor series would probably be enjoyable to you.
Are you just looking for suggestions of 40K books because general detective fiction can be rather inspirational.
Quote from: Shannow on May 11, 2011, 01:24:17 PMI've already read the Eisenhorn books and majority of Gaunt's Ghosts ans have the rest to get through.
Oh god, It's too late for you now...
Definitely go with the Inquisition War trilogy. The originals, not the bastardised nu-Black Library edits with "Grill the Tech-Priest" (serving suggestion?)
Quote from: Morcus on May 11, 2011, 06:31:44 PM
If you like Eisenhorn then the Ravenor series would probably be enjoyable to you.
Are you just looking for suggestions of 40K books because general detective fiction can be rather inspirational.
Quote from: Charax on May 11, 2011, 08:23:51 PM
Quote from: Shannow on May 11, 2011, 01:24:17 PMI've already read the Eisenhorn books and majority of Gaunt's Ghosts ans have the rest to get through.
Oh god, It's too late for you now...
Definitely go with the Inquisition War trilogy. The originals, not the bastardised nu-Black Library edits with "Grill the Tech-Priest" (serving suggestion?)
I felt that the Eisenhorn trilogy fell foul to the law of diminishing return and that the first was alright with the others getting worse as they went on(I'm a sucker for finishing what I start though). Is Ravenor more like the first book or the second two?
I'm looking for specifically 40k at the moment, just to pad out my overall 40k universe Knowledge but any other novels you want to suggest are welcome. I'm a big fan of analytical detectives, have a large collection of first edition Sherlock Holmes novels ;D
Rob
The thing with the InqWar trilogy is that its fallen somewhat out of favour because of how much it now goes against the grain of contemporary 40k mythos. Unfortunately, Black Library novels have a tendency of being almost too 'clean' and don't accurately reflect the true wonder and madness of the 41st millennium. Whilst I agree with Charax about finding the original Boxtree editions of the trilogy (which are difficult to aquire for a good price and/or in good condition), the reprint (to be fair) only has scant alterations from the original text.
IIRC the original Realm of Chaos and Slaves to Darkness from the Rogue trader era had lots of weird info in them. Especially the bit about the Star Child.
I'm curious - why the Abnett-hate?
Quote from: Molotov on May 12, 2011, 09:15:56 PM
I'm curious - why the Abnett-hate?
I am with Mol, I read Eisenhorn, It was great.
Abnett has something of a habit of being a bit hazy about the canon, often drifting into a more generic feeling setting.
To keep it to just simple examples, I don't feel the "Lightsaber" (in Eisenhorn) is appropriate for this kind of setting - it's without appropriate precedent. The Pariah Dampers - these feel like an excuse to have a Pariah without having to address the issues that go with them...
... which, by the way, he did awfully in Eisenhorn (a Psyker falling in love with an untouchable? I'm sorry, what?). So perhaps a Deus Ex Machina to get him out of having to address those things again was actually a good thing.
There are greater, more overarching issues, but those are simple examples of when he has written things which are not appropriate for the mythos.
Also, as a more general criticism of his writing style, he does have the occasional habit of not using Chekhov's gun enough, introducing elements without foreshadowing.
To use the lightsaber as an example again, it's introduced immediately before it's used versus Mandragore. No mention several chapters back so that it doesn't feel like it's suddenly been written in.
It also happens with several characters, redshirts evidently introduced to be killed off in the near future. Someone to die to prove how dangerous it all is, but without capping one of the main characters.
Admittedly, while by the end of Malleus, he has killed off most of the main characters, many characters have a lifespan of no more than the next chapter.
As a further note on his writing style, his style of writing fight scenes is rather bizarre. At least in Eisenhorn, I found Eisenhorn's descriptions of his own fights in a precise blow-by-blow style rather disconcerting. Who the frak can remember the exact moves they used in a fight?
The fact much of it was described as moves in the Carthean sword fighting style was intensely irritating, because it was just words with no meaning.
Imagine I come up to you and go "Yeah, that 20 of Socapex. I need the head up to Dimmer rack two on house left. The other end needs to go into into this tail spider, which I'll need rigged into the Par 64s around the satellite. I'll need those gelled up in 106, 71, 119, 327, 161 and All-out-but-purple. While you're at the folders, give me a CMY in the left side spot with 116, 046 and 101." If you don't know stage technician terms, that will presumably mean absolutely nothing to you. Which is about what terms like "Ulsar" and "Uin Ulsar" made me feel. I actually went back through the book to see if I'd missed something. Nope, we're throwing nonsense words at you, deal with it.
Abnett's writing has some merits, but sometimes I wonder why his editor hasn't called him back and gone: "This bit you've just sent me... really?"
He doesn't seem to think through the consequences of anything he writes either. Take this example (although it is not the only one, it is one of the most egregious)
1) The Essene
- Captain Maxilla is the only living crew member
- He has a Navigator-Servitor
- - This means that Navigator powers don't require an independent, conscious mind to use, and so you can effectively automate Navigators.
- - - A) Why have the Navis Nobilite allowed this? they're one of the most powerful organisations in the Imperium, are they going to take kindly to a member of one of the Navigator Houses being stripped of their humanity and made into a mockery of their former selves? (not to mention the fact this undermines their entire power base)
- - - B) Given that this does undermine their entire power base, why aren't nearly all navigators servitorised? At the very least, being able to have a docile, compliant psyker is very handy.
- - - - Ba) If you can servitorise psykers while retaining their powers, why not servitorise all psykers? Much safer than having them running around with free will.
or, as Marco mentioned, the Pariah Limiter - whole books of angsty character development (even though the premise is ridiculous...A pariah pleasure girl? does he know what PARIAH means? oh god, now a psyker's fallen for her...oh god, now they're angsting about not being able to be together) rendered pointless by an invention introduced in the follow-up series. So now the whole reason Pariahs are almost universally exterminated is rendered void because you can just flip a switch when the downside of their powers interferes with things.
In many ways, it's the apex of an Abnett creation. It has no precedence in the background (either within or outside the Abnettverse), it magically solves some problem the protagonists were having, and the wider consequences of its existence are entirely ignored.
these are the least of my reasons for disliking abnett
this thread seems to have derailed somewhat..... Just book suggestions please! Hate rents are amusing but not altogether that important in the grabs scheme of things....
Apologies. That was one of those posts that grew, and I've only just realised quite how long a rant it is.
But I do suggest that you start with something other than more Dan Abnett. While I don't regret having read things like Eisenhorn, you can certainly find better.
For starters, I suggest Inquisitor Sargoth's Aurea Mediocritas. Unfortunately what's in the IC section is very incomplete, as he decided he wanted to rework it and hasn't got very far (although what he has done is most definitely improved). But, fortunately, I think I still have copies of most of what was on the last 'Clave which I should be able to send to you.
Despite that he thinks it needs reworking, it would still be an insult to it to say it's what Eisenhorn should have been.
I'd greatly appreciate anything you had that you thought was worth reading Marco :) cheers in advance!
I also quite liked Scourge the Heretic and Innocence Proves Nothing by Sandy Mitchell, so in my opinion they're also worth a look.
Right, I've emailed you what I have of Aurea Mediocritas. Enjoy.
I'd advise reading some of the books that inspired the authors of the original Rogue Trader. Dune by Frank Herbert is an excellent place to start - the stories of warring noble houses, navigators, the sisterhood etc are great inspiration for Inquisitor (but stop reading when you get to the ones by Brian Herbert/Kevin J. Anderson). Or you could take a look at Starship Troopers by Robert A. Heinlein, or Asimov's Foundation trilogy (I know there's more than three, but the first three are the ones to read).
That should be enough to get you started...
Thanks Dave and Dave, one for the email one for the other books.
A whole new meaning to D&D.....
i'll actually suggest some of the stories from Warp Rift magazine, google it and it should come up. Despite being Battalefleet Gothic it is still good from a background perspective
yes, warprift is awesome! pure fan-fiction, but damn good...
Well, to contradict the more fanatical out there, DO BUY/READ RAVENOR. I found it better than Eisenhorn, which I actually enjoyed.
Yes, Abnett has a few (or more than a few) idiot moments out there - they've been sufficiently discussed - but there's one thing he does better than any other BL author: he creates the most wonderful settings. Worlds, cultures, societies, rendered wonderfully. Maybe these things don't matter to every reader, but it is this that makes Abnett my favourite BL author: in his books, it's not just the generic GrimDarkImperiumCrapsackWorld. It's Eustis Majoris, or Bonner's Reach, or Sameter or Gudrun... etc. Some other authors try to do similar but either fall short on uniqueness, or describe things so floridly my head hurts (Mitchell...).
I take Abnett's two Inquisitor series (and to a rather lesser extent Gaunt's Ghosts) as my primary inspiration when creating creating the sector in which my gaming group's campaigns are held.
-A.