I love the new Tomb Kings Ushabati with Great Weapons models. I don't collect Tomb Kings so I figured I'd try and work the models into Inquisitor as they are near perfect scale so I have an excuse to get them :) Here's a size comparison of one of them next to Lukas:
(http://i868.photobucket.com/albums/ab248/nero_vipus/inq/IMG_0363.jpg)
I thought they could be daemons based on the Egyptian Gods that they each look like (Ra, Sobek and Anubis). They each have different abilities and profiles and each of their weapons has a different special rule to represent the different Gods. Ra is the Sun God, Sobek the God of the Nile but also the Patron of the Eqyptian Army, and Anubis the God of mummification and the afterlife.
Here are the provisional rules for them, still WIP. Will greatly appreciate any C&C :)
Ra
WS BS S T I Wp Sg Nv Ld
68 41 63 64 71 81 74 87 24
Abilities: Daemonic, Fearsome, Blinding Flash psychic power
Equipment: Blade of Ra – Reach 4, Damage 2D10, Parry Penalty 10%, Warpflame
Anubis
WS BS S T I Wp Sg Nv Ld
71 42 62 63 72 79 74 86 24
Abilities: Daemonic, Fearsome, Invulnerable, Mummification psychic power
Mummification: A series of psychic bandages envelop and entangle the foe as he is slowly mummified alive.
Difficulty 5. Ranged. Hits D3+1 locations. Hit locations count as entangled (see web guns rules)
Blade of Anubis – Reach 4, Damage 2D10, Parry Penalty 10%, Life drain
Life Drain – at the end of the turn during which this blade does damage Anubis counts as having the regeneration special rule.
Sobek
WS BS S T I Wp Sg Nv Ld
78 39 72 64 70 71 72 88 23
Abilities: Daemonic, Fearsome, Blood lust Psychic power
Blood lust: Sobek reaches into the mind of the target and whips them into a frenzied blood lust. It doesn't matter who they kill, they just need to kill. They lose all control as the intense aggression and desire to kill blocks out all other feelings.
Difficulty 10. Ranged. Target counts as having the Frenzy special rule except that he will attack the nearest character (friend or foe!) target takes a Willpower test at the end of every turn. If successful he breaks free of the power and may act as normal from then onwards.
Blade of Sobek – Reach 4, Damage 2D10, Parry Penalty 10% Bound and deflection
Unless they've fiddled with the original scale of the Ushabti, they're two heads shorter than most INQ range models.
Now that's a neat idea. I'd nick it if I hadn't sworn off buying from GW until they stop acting like prats.
But time for some C&C:
Daemonic... what? Daemonic on its own isn't a skill, it's just a category which includes things like Invulnerable and Impervious.
Not all of those blades really look like Reach 4 (I don't think there are any Reach 4 weapons which aren't polearms - staffs, halberds and spears). So I think I'd at least bring back your Anubis to a reach 3.
I'd say Mummification needs a higher difficulty (webbers are nasty).
Blood Lust - I wrote something similar a while back, but it was considerably harder to use:
~~~~~
Feral Rage - Difficulty 20, Ranged (Telepathy or Biomancy)
Forcing their target's emotions, a raw fury descends on the victim, overriding any rational thought or self-preservation.The target must make a Wp test with an additional penalty equal to the amount the psyker passed their test by. If they fail, they are subject to Frenzy, Furious Assault and may not elect to fail Nv tests. If they roll over twice the required score, they will also consider friendly characters valid targets!
They will continue to be affected in subsequent turns until they pass a Wp test (no longer modified by the psyker's success) in the recovery phase.
~~~~~
Despite a higher difficulty, offering the target a chance to resist and a much lower chance of attacking their own side, it has still proven a pretty nasty ability. A particularly memorable use was against a well dug-in marksman, who didn't do so well after suddenly gaining the Frenzy trait and charging out of cover.
Quote from: Macabre on June 14, 2011, 03:35:34 PM
Unless they've fiddled with the original scale of the Ushabti, they're two heads shorter than most INQ range models.
Why ever not? They did re-release the Tomb Kings range recently.
Indeed, the scale comparison picture shows a pretty good match.
QuoteUnless they've fiddled with the original scale of the Ushabti, they're two heads shorter than most INQ range models.
They are shorter than the taller ones eg Ranger and Daemonhuntress but it doesn't matter too much. They are daemons after all and so wouldn't necessarily need to be the exact same size as regular humans. They still look good next to them.
QuoteDaemonic... what? Daemonic on its own isn't a skill, it's just a category which includes things like Invulnerable and Impervious.
Didn't need to put that! Shall get rid of it. I only put it to emphasise they are daemons and hence affected by pentagrammic wards and the like.
QuoteNot all of those blades really look like Reach 4 (I don't think there are any Reach 4 weapons which aren't polearms - staffs, halberds and spears). So I think I'd at least bring back your Anubis to a reach 3.
Yeah you're right. Figured they were roughly the length of a halberd but comparing them to the daemonhuntress model I realise they are shorter. Will change them to reach 3.
QuoteI'd say Mummification needs a higher difficulty (webbers are nasty).
Will increase it to Difficulty 20 then.
QuoteBlood Lust - I wrote something similar a while back, but it was considerably harder to use:
Hmmmm. i might give the target a chance to resist with a Wp test then. Make it a bit trickier to cast.
Thanks for all your help :)
Why not use different (but similar) names. This is M41, try to use some immajination rather than ripping off the ancient egyptians
**scuttles off and uses some other models and calls them the gods Zeus, Hera, Ares and, Artemis**
I dunno, I kind of like the 'spot the reference' game that goes on with the naming. Sly Marbo, Sergeant Harper and Orkimedes, for example, or even the more'subtle' ones like Abbadon or Isha. Having said that, perhaps given their daemonic nature the models could be linked to one of the great four?
Ra- sun, flame, eternal rule over the changing earth- Tzeentch?
Anubis- stasis, decay, concern for those in his care- Nurgle?
Sobek- Rage, Hunger, an aspect of all warriors- Khorne?
Just something to consider. As for the rules, I'd consider upping the toughness and fear factor- any daemons, even lesser ones, should be the ultimate horror for any inquisitor to face. They are The Enemy Without, a walking abomination, their very presence a revelation as to the thin, fragile nature of our reality. They hint at the horrors beyond, unliving rejections of all hope and faith and right now they are walking here amongst us...
Something like that, anyway.
As we're talking about Inquisitor rather than a Stargate RPG I'd lose most of the direct Egyptian references - as suggested above there are parallels between the portfolios of those listed and some of the Chaos Gods and I would tie them into their egyptian look by their background rather than trying to truly tie them to Egyptian gods.
Perhaps there were four of them initially, old friends in life and raised in the same town on a backwater world (hence the similar styles) cut off from the rest of the Imperium for long enough that they (being abhuman) were beginning to see the growth of persecution of their kind, perhaps they turned to Chaos, none to a specific patron but each embodying some aspects of one. Perhaps the fourth was not Abhuman and being rather the hedonist betrayed them to the authorities. Perhaps they found out and hunted him down, ate his still-living flesh and used his life essence, infused through their bodies to open a conduit to the Warp Storm and, slaughtering all inhabitants of the city, drove their own assension. (I'd make a severed head on a flying base with plates nailed over ears and eyes and the jaw wired shut who would be the last living remains of their compatriot, cursed to accompany them for eternity but unable to indulge even the slightest of his hedonistic tendencies (if I went with this story)).
Given the way the blades are held I would make them Reach 2 personally - they're a brawling weapon designed to parry, to barge and to stab or club with quick movements from the ends outside the hands...
Finally...
I want to see a lot more background, I want to see motivations and schemes, I want to see some actual character to them.
Stat lines are pointless without character and the same goes double for daemonic entities. What are their demonic names? What are they seeking to accomplish during their time in the world, why would they have answered a summons at this point?
Besides that I would say that those statlines are exceptionally insipid - a single daemonic entity in full possesion of its powers should be a match for an Adeptus Astartes IMHO - I would expect toughnesses in excess of 150, strength sufficient that they be able to rip a man in half...etc. at least for those who might be termed "lesser".
I don't dislike the Egyptian references. Perhaps the daemons have styled themselves after ancient human gods (but the warp being timeless, said gods are contemporaneous, ancient and a distant future all at once).
On the other hand, if the beliefs and emotions of the human race can form daemons, then I could believe that even with the lower psychic potential of the human race at that time (although, the Emperor's birth considerably predates Ancient Egypt, so psychic potential wasn't that trivial) that there might exist a modest few daemons, entities or fragments of ancient gods in the 41st millennium.
Wasn't He born a steppe tribesman of about the twelth century?
I seem to remember something from Mr Priestley which suggested (IIRC - it's only in the back of my mind I'm afraid) He was contemporaneous with Ghengis Khan...
But that would place Him some six millenia after the Ancient Egyptians (and the increase in psychic potential came much later - The Age of Strife - He took The Throne because He realised that Humanity needed to be guided through the transition*).
*To say nothing of the fact that - as Terra = Earth - noone has yet been shown to exhibit psychic ability ;)
Quote from: InquisitorHeidfeld on June 15, 2011, 04:30:04 PMWasn't He born a steppe tribesman of about the twelth century?
Eighth millennium BC, so about five thousand years before ancient Egypt - and he was the reincarnation of a great many shamans, so psychic potential had existed even before him.
QuoteTo say nothing of the fact that - as Terra = Earth - noone has yet been shown to exhibit psychic ability
That assumes 40k is the future of
our universe...
Quote from: MarcoSkoll on June 15, 2011, 04:40:06 PM
QuoteTo say nothing of the fact that - as Terra = Earth - noone has yet been shown to exhibit psychic ability
That assumes 40k is the future of our universe...
And Marco really hits the nail on the head there, 40K may or may not be our universe. For that matter I've seen enough conflicting accounts of where/when the emperor was born that I don't know that there's a definitive answer.
Back to the point, I find blatant ports (whether other sci-fi universes or religion) to be a waste and lacking in imagination. If you wanted to do something quick and simple I'd say go with the previous suggestions and find a niche for each daemon with the chaos god that fits your fancy.
Conversely, if you'd like to get more in depth then create your own minor powers. I had a great deal of fun creating a mythology which tied into the subsector my (imaginary) games take place in (I call them imaginary because I've forever searching for players/time to get a game in). "The Seduced" in my universe are a collection of minor to major warp entities which realigned themselves with Slannesh after the fall and there is a complex political atmosphere surrounding them and ties to the physical universe in specific places which causes conflict with the human/alien character there. It was all incredibly fun to create and a nice break from hashing out the details of mere mortals.
In the end it's your own decision but even if you are taking inspiration from the Egyptian Pantheon it just seems a waste to use the names and call it a day.
Anyway, I love the models as well and at the very least I'm glad to see someone using them for Inquisitor, I eagerly await more details on the characters and completed models.
Quote from: Alyster Wick on June 16, 2011, 02:36:32 AMIn the end it's your own decision but even if you are taking inspiration from the Egyptian Pantheon it just seems a waste to use the names and call it a day.
Well, it depends on who's giving them the names. Daemons may have hundreds or thousands of monikers, which they may have used themselves, may have been used by someone else or neither (a whole "information from nothing" paradox).
Either way, it's probably worth keeping the names, even if only as easy labels for the players to identify each. (I'm sure it's easier to keep track of the Jackal headed one as Anubis than Ty'reit'lak).
Try and find the original Egyptian names - Anubis, for one, is a Greek name, a "Helllenisation" of the original. But be careful! Apophis is greek, but sounds much better than the original, which is Apep, with sounds more like a liquid you take for a grumbly stomach.
Thanks for the feedback, I love the idea of tying them to each of the chaos gods. I've worked on some background now. They are going to be daemons but they aren't quite as powerful as they should be as their link to the immaterium has been shut off (The background explains it). Therefore I'm going to make their profiles more powerful than they are now but not necessarily as powerful as a normal daemon would be. Originally I wanted them to be in keeping with my other characters and be not too overpowered but I think it suits the background more if they are more powerful. Anyway here's their background:
Rarely do the four Chaos Gods agree on anything especially when it involves the physical universe. However there is an individual who has greatly angered each one of them, Inquisitor Alexandra Veritas. She has slayed many daemons personally and led forces of Grey Knights to banish even more of the daemonic pawns of the Gods. Her years of daemonhunting have not gone unnoticed by them, the greatest insult was when Alexandra banished one of the 666 most powerful daemons. Although the life of a mere mortal is but a flickering light to the Chaos Gods, Alexandra has done much to insult the Gods in her brief mortal life in the physical universe. Normally the Gods would not waste their time on a mere mortal, however they all want to punish Alexandra for her work. Each God has sent a powerful daemon through into the physical universe to each inflict a terrible punishment on Alexandra. Khorne's punishent is for his daemon to consume the flesh from Alexandra's body whilst she is still alive. Nurgle's punishment is to inflict one of the vilest and most pestilent diseases upon her. Slaneesh will overload all of her senses causing excruciating pain and suffering, whilst Tzeentch will warp her half eaten body into a hideous spawn of chaos.
The four daemons burst forth from the Warp and attacked Alexandra. She fought them for hours, whilst the warp rift remained open allowing the foul daemons to draw immense power from the warp. Alexandra was tiring, having to battle against four incredibly powerful foes. Whilst the daemons were busy fighting, Godric and her banisher managed to close the warp rift, shutting the daemons off from the immaterium. The daemons continued to fight but their powers grew weaker as their link to the warp and the chaos Gods they drew power from was severed. Alexandra took advantage of their lessening powers and managed to slay the daemon of Slaneesh. The three others realised that they now lacked the power to kill Alexandra and so scattered. Now they each travel around the physical universe wreaking havoc and slaughtering human lives to preserve their presence in the physical universe. They each believe if they sacrifice enough human lives to their respective God they can gain enough power to inflict their punishments on Alexandra and thus gain the favour of their God.
When their physical forms were created they took on the guise of the Egyptian gods. They were symbols of immense power and were greatly feared by the humans and so seemed the perfect forms to take. However each deaemon still displays aspects of their God. Those humans ignorant to the ways of daemons know them by the names of the Gods they represent. Their true names are still unknown.
QuoteQuoteTo say nothing of the fact that - as Terra = Earth - noone has yet been shown to exhibit psychic ability
That assumes 40k is the future of our universe...
While it may be an alternative reality it is most certainly our Galaxy - Terra, Lunar and Mars notwithstanding there are references to the Milky Way too.
So yes, I think I'm fairly safe in that assumption.
QuoteEither way, it's probably worth keeping the names, even if only as easy labels for the players to identify each. (I'm sure it's easier to keep track of the Jackal headed one as Anubis than Ty'reit'lak).
Referring to them as Anubis fair enough - but the Daemonic True name is not for referring to them.
I would want to see that a true name has been considered (and ideally I'd want to see where it might be discovered) primarily because it shows that they aren't just a human with a wierd head and uber-daemonic-abilities.
Too often Daemons are just monsters to hurl at the players like it's a computer game, like they're that first Gold Elite in Halo or whatever else. Whereas they should have every bit as much background and character as any Inquisitor or Rogue Trader.
* * *
I would avoid the Chaos gods working together - especially to eliminate something as insignificant as a single human - it's like calling the UN General Assembly to crush a Mayfly. The option of Undivided but with tendencies is far easier to fit within the norm of cannon.
The background there is less the background of the Daemons and more that of the Inquisitrix - let's hear about them, what events created sufficient currents within the Warp that they became self-sustaining, what made them so similar (taking the shape of Egyptian gods may be possible for them but it's far more likely that they were the shape of Egyptian gods, that that is a part of their make up).
What are their Persistent Motifs, if they are bound to a Daemonhost or possess a mortal what are the first effects of their daemonic Essence upon that fragile frame?
How might Inquisitors find out about them, how might they recognise their influence, where can their names be found?
Remember that you're dealing with immortals - beings for whom our universe is entirely alien and hostile. They set foot in our world only rartely, and if defeated here cannot return for a thousand years and a day, they aren't attack dogs, she's already defeated one of the most powerful Daemons and they're minor but they aren't stupid. If they were driven to attack immediately how do they make sure that one of the others is going to be the one who is banished while they get the glory of the kill?
The reason their background is 'more that of the inquisitor' is because they were created in order to punish her. Their sole purpose is to inflict their Gods' punishment on her. They wouldn't exist if she didn't exist. They were only created because of her, they were only granted entrance into the physical universe because of her. They are not ancient daemons, they were created out of their respective Gods' hatred towards Alexandra. Therefore their background is formed round the Inquisitor.
They don't necessarily get on, they have no loyalty to each other, however they have a common goal. There's nothing to stop them from turning on each other once they have done their God's work.
She is not an insignificant human - she has killed many daemons and so is a direct enemy of the chaos God's. She has been a hindrance to their work and so not only do they wish to remove her but they wish to punish her for what she has done. It was no true hardship for the Gods' to set these daemons on her. The daemons were already created within the warp as they are formed of the Gods' hatred for Alexandra all the God's had to do was grant them passage into the real universe and give them physical form.
They are daemons, not possessed humans or daemonhosts.
They know that if they die they shall be banished for a thousand and one days hence why they fled. They each slaughter countless humans to try and preserve their diminishing presence in the real universe, to gain more power so they are able to kill Alexandra. Who knows they may even try and kill each other, seeing that as a more impressive sacrifice to their Gods.
Their true name is as of yet unknown as they are new daemons. The God's hatred for Alexandra which they were created from cannot have been around before Alexandra was, so the daemons were not around before her either. Therefore their names cannot be known to humans as they only just passed through the warp. Also the daemons know they need all the strength possible and so won't announce their true names, as this would be a key weakness that could be exploited.
Inquisitors could easily find out about them by seeing the havoc they cause. These daemons aren't just hiding away, subtly influencing people. They are doing anything to survive, slaughtering thousands of humans. The only thing worse than a daemon is a desperate daemon!
The Chaos Gods personally- this I feel may be difficult to justify in terms of fluff. Their interest falls on mortals in terms of influence on specific vices and emotions- and there are Trillions of us, so one mortal is unlikely to hold their attention for long. Dealing with the Emperor- five minutes work: steal some babies, twist some loyalties. And no disrespect to Alexandra, but if she's even equal in power to the emperor then we have a problem...
What the Gods do have, however, are flunkies. Servants, minions, vassals, slaves- Daemon Princes. What I can see happening is this Daemon hunter to have personally upset three independent princes serving the greater powers- three seperate occasions of heroism and thwarting of evil. That these three 'lesser' entities would take umbrage and try to avenge the insult is far more within the bounds of fluff and scale.
It also would mean, background wise, you have a lot more to play with- who the princes are, what Alexandra did to them, how the punishments/agents they sent after fit her specific crime... the list goes on.
@SpanielBear - I love the idea of it being Daemon Princes that she has upset. As you said it's much easier to justify and allows for more interesting back ground. Thanks :)
Anytime, I'm glad it was useful :)
Quote from: Damon on June 16, 2011, 05:14:03 PM
The reason their background is 'more that of the inquisitor' is because they were created in order to punish her. Their sole purpose is to inflict their Gods' punishment on her. They wouldn't exist if she didn't exist. They were only created because of her, they were only granted entrance into the physical universe because of her. They are not ancient daemons, they were created out of their respective Gods' hatred towards Alexandra. Therefore their background is formed round the Inquisitor.
Other than that Daemons are not created by the Chaos gods but birthed by events which influence the currents of the Warp it is still a weakness in the background that they are described only in reaction to a human tale.
Their true names are a part of them, as much as your brain is a part of you. It is their self, it defines them, it may never have been discovered but it must exist.
QuoteShe is not an insignificant human - she has killed many daemons and so is a direct enemy of the chaos God's. She has been a hindrance to their work and so not only do they wish to remove her but they wish to punish her for what she has done. It was no true hardship for the Gods' to set these daemons on her. The daemons were already created within the warp as they are formed of the Gods' hatred for Alexandra all the God's had to do was grant them passage into the real universe and give them physical form.
When the Chaos gods last properly cooperated it was due to the prospect of millions of incorruptable warriors capable of bringing order to the entire Galaxy.
The Primarch project was not even supposed to be the creation of the Adeptus Astartes, the Primarchs were to have been the first, not the greatest.
And even then they couldn't work together for more than the theft of the children before they each started to put their own plans in play and attempt to thwart the plans of the others.
QuoteThey are daemons, not possessed humans or daemonhosts.
Daemonhost and possessed creatures are made from a physical body and.... Gee, now let me think...
Daemons are immortal creatures and there are many ways by which they may feature, traits such as these may feature later and thinking about them helps to solidify what the Daemons themselves are, it is simply a part of the character. You wouldn't usually meet the parents of a character but that doesn't stop you thinking of them.
QuoteInquisitors could easily find out about them by seeing the havoc they cause. These daemons aren't just hiding away, subtly influencing people. They are doing anything to survive, slaughtering thousands of humans. The only thing worse than a daemon is a desperate daemon!
They have fled and they wish to survive, why should they stay in the Material? Why not simply allow themselves to melt back into the Warp?
Ping! no more threat of banishment.
They seem yet more like they're there to be killed, like good monsters, which is not how (for my money) they should be used.
Each should be a character in their own right, each should have as much of a part in a campaign as any Inquisitor or Rogue Trader...
The feeling that they're there to die in a proper end-of-level-boss-fight is reinforced by the lack of background, of legend, of their motivations and so forth. The only way to eliminate them from the game seems to be to track them, trap them and kill them afterall. If they had true-names recorded somewhere in the Inquisitorial libraries then they could be forced, if they had motivations those could be manipulated... Every bit of background you add gives options within the story, if Darth Vader was just a bit guy with a lightsabre then the Emperor would have killed Skywalker and crushed the Rebel Alliance but he was more than his costume.
What I'm trying to draw out is precisely that - you have a costume and something to stand in it (a model and a statline) but it's nothing without the character behind it.
Wow. this background makes the daemons, and by extension the gods who created them, look absolutely stupid.
I mean, it's not unusual for someone to write a character's background so it makes daemons seem ridiculously inept, but it's somewhat rare when that background is
for the daemons themselves.
Quote from: Damon on June 16, 2011, 12:28:03 PM
Rarely do the four Chaos Gods agree on anything especially when it involves the physical universe. However there is an individual who has greatly angered each one of them, Inquisitor Alexandra Veritas. She has slayed many daemons personally and led forces of Grey Knights to banish even more of the daemonic pawns of the Gods.
Absolutely no different to tens of thousands of other Inquisitors. Also it's "Slain"
Quote from: Damon on June 16, 2011, 12:28:03 PMHer years of daemonhunting have not gone unnoticed by them, the greatest insult was when Alexandra banished one of the 666 most powerful daemons.
Well, that would really have pissed off whichever God that daemon served, but it would have pleased all the others greatly.
Also throwing something that epic into the background without any explanation or elaboration is just Mat Wardian.
Quote from: Damon on June 16, 2011, 12:28:03 PMAlthough the life of a mere mortal is but a flickering light to the Chaos Gods, Alexandra has done much to insult the Gods in her brief mortal life in the physical universe.
So has Stern. So has Eisenhorn. So has pretty much every Malleus Inquisitor in existence. Aside from this one example of banishing a single daemon of vague power and indeterminate God, there's no reason for her to be special.
Quote from: Damon on June 16, 2011, 12:28:03 PMNormally the Gods would not waste their time on a mere mortal, however they all want to punish Alexandra for her work. Each God has sent a powerful daemon through into the physical universe to each inflict a terrible punishment on Alexandra. Khorne's punishent is for his daemon to consume the flesh from Alexandra's body whilst she is still alive. Nurgle's punishment is to inflict one of the vilest and most pestilent diseases upon her. Slaneesh will overload all of her senses causing excruciating pain and suffering, whilst Tzeentch will warp her half eaten body into a hideous spawn of chaos.
This I have no issue with. The gods can be quite petty. However these are not "Powerful" daemons.
Powerful Daemons can bend worlds to their whim, shatter reality with a word and drown Solar Systems in blood. These guys can mildly annoy a somewhat obscure Inquisitor who once did something vaguely notable.
Quote from: Damon on June 16, 2011, 12:28:03 PMThe four daemons burst forth from the Warp and attacked Alexandra. She fought them for hours, whilst the warp rift remained open allowing the foul daemons to draw immense power from the warp. Alexandra was tiring, having to battle against four incredibly powerful foes.
This is where you start making the daemons seem stupid. For a start, is giving her four foes really the best use of an open, stable warp rift? Swamp her in Nurglings for god's sake! for all the energy it takes to summon four "powerful" Daemons and reinforce that power over hours they could have deployed a whole army of Daemons to stop her.
Also, she banished one of the 666 most powerful daemons. Does that imply that she's a foe where "attack head-on" is likely to win you the day?
Quote from: Damon on June 16, 2011, 12:28:03 PMWhilst the daemons were busy fighting, Godric and her banisher managed to close the warp rift
after Hours? wow. Well done guys - you see where deploying a whole army of less-powerful daemons may have been a smarter tactic? some could have protected the supply line to the Warp. These Powerful daemons are stupid.
Quote from: Damon on June 16, 2011, 12:28:03 PMshutting the daemons off from the immaterium. The daemons continued to fight but their powers grew weaker as their link to the warp and the chaos Gods they drew power from was severed. Alexandra took advantage of their lessening powers and managed to slay the daemon of Slaneesh. The three others realised that they now lacked the power to kill Alexandra and so scattered. Now they each travel around the physical universe wreaking havoc and slaughtering human lives to preserve their presence in the physical universe.
Or they could just let their energies dissipate back to the Warp and actually do something smart like plan or strategise. Voluntarily retreating to the warp isn't "Banishment" or "Losing", daemons operate primarily on hit-and-run tactics from their home turf of the Warp. If they really wanted physical bodies so badly they'd possess something/someone, it takes far less energy than maintaining a full physical presence of their own.
and it's not like this is something they wouldn't know, they're
daemons - the mechanics of their existence is second nature to them. even the most mindless warp-creature carries an instinct for possession when they wish to enter the physical realm.
Quote from: Damon on June 16, 2011, 12:28:03 PMThey each believe if they sacrifice enough human lives to their respective God they can gain enough power to inflict their punishments on Alexandra and thus gain the favour of their God.
ok, there's something fundamentally wrong here: The fact that they're independant daemons, with their own thoughts and plans and desires is a mark of their Gods' favour - if the Gods were displeased with them they'd either be pulled back into the Warp by force or reduced to Spawn, or lesser Daemons. the fact that they
can believe something already marks them out as being favoured.
Quote from: Damon on June 16, 2011, 12:28:03 PMWhen their physical forms were created they took on the guise of the Egyptian gods. They were symbols of immense power and were greatly feared by the humans and so seemed the perfect forms to take. However each deaemon still displays aspects of their God. Those humans ignorant to the ways of daemons know them by the names of the Gods they represent. Their true names are still unknown.
So...you're directly equating the Egyptian Gods with the Big Four now? I mean it makes sense on some level but it's a pretty major leap to just take for granted like that.
Hmmm maybe I have to go back to the drawing board in terms of the background.
You're actually quite lucky they match up to those Chaos Gods, because there's a very easy way to keep them Chaos god themed, but without a Slaaneshi one (killing a daemon only a temporary way to be rid of it, and actually destroying its essence being nearly impossible)...
...place their creation pre-Fall. No Slaanesh, no Slaaneshi aspect.
That also gives you a very generous time period to write about their former nastiness.
not entirely true. Thanks to the funky temporal physics involved in dealing with Warpspace interaction with realspace, there were actually daemons of Slaanesh that preceded the creation of Slaanesh itself.
Not *many*, mind you, but they were there
Of course, but usually the idea of a "coven of daemons" relates to the major powers, not every not-yet-god there might be, or even the minor deities that might exist. (Malal/Malice, Ans'l, Mo'rcck, Phraz-Etar... there are a few.)
Maybe there is a Slaaneshi one. The other three daemons know there is a Slaaneshi one. Alexandra knows there is a Slaaneshi one. She keeps receiving omens, hints and dark clues about the presence of the Slaaneshi one...
But no-one's ever seen the Slaaneshi one!
After all, how paranoid and terrified would that make someone- you know that there are four things hunting you. Every time you face them it takes every trick, every fibre of your being to fight them off, they still keep coming, and you've never even faced the full complement yet. Each time, each day, every encounter, you'd just keep thinking "maybe this time..."
That sounds like a great idea... aside from the fact it makes me think of school leavers' pranks.
You know, the one where you put three things around the school they don't want to be there (sheep, blow up sex dolls, lists of teachers' passwords - that sort of thing), then number them 1, 3 and 4.
Watch everyone panicking over finding #2.
Oddly enough, thinking of it as a school leaving prank only makes me more convinced that it's something that a Slaaneshi daemon would do... only with extra spikes, leather and depravity. After all, it isn't what Alexandra does when she encounters the daemon that's interesting, but what she's willing to do in order to find it.
Mind games seem more of a Tzeentchian ploy to me.
Hell, the whole egyptian motif in itself is very Tzeentchian, look at the Lord of Change
I would have said the same as Charax. Yeah, I can see daemons doing that, but playing a long game isn't a very Slaaneshi thing...
Alrighty then, instead of Ra=Tzeentch, why not Horus - Young God, Dark History, Tied to earthly affairs = Slaanesh. That way, Tzeentch is free to manipulate away. If this is a road worth going down, anyway; it might not be how you want to see things develop, Damon.
Again, I take no issue with inspiration being taken from myth/history/literature in the creation of anything, but am I completely alone in thinking that directly porting the names of Egyptian Gods is like having a laser sword and referring to it as a "light saber?"
To address other issues coming up here, I would second the motion that you erase the big 4 from the concept all together and go with a daemon prince. The minor daemons could be reflections of the prince's personality. Perhaps they exist to exact bloody revenge when someone has displeased him/her/it and they have done this kind of work many times before over the centuries (hint hint, opportunity for background) and in all this time Alexandra is the only one to survive their first attempt (see Charax's post for issues to address when rewriting the encounter).
Doing it this way makes Alexandra unique (she survived the first attempt) but not uniquely powerful (as in "she pissed off the big 4 so much that their hatred formed new being intent on destroying her").
Additionally, I support following the suggestion that the daemons fade back into the warp after their first encounter. This makes them much more interesting characters as they now have the opportunity to try and influence things behind the scenes. How will their past history with one another play out in the face of defeat? What was the daemon prince's reaction to their failure? How can they affect the mortal realm?
Rather than being worried that a tooth gnashing monster is waiting behind every door Alexandra now has to worry that every Imperial citizen she walks by may be involved in a cult devoted to these daemons. Or she could be trying to bind one into a stable vessel and interrogate it about the others.
Anyway, that's a whole lot of babbling but my point is that it'll give you options, notably more interesting options than having ravenous monsters roaming the subsector whose options are very limited given their alien appearance.
Check out some of the names Lovecraft used - he regularly used "Egyptian" style names, which were probably just noises, but would do well for a Daemon's name (real or use). Also, investigate the less common gods? Ra will make people go "what? really?" but Aten might not, even though they're pretty much the same (in the sense that YHWH, Jehovah and Allah are all the same, sort of - outsiders think so, insiders don't).