The Conclave

Hi

After introducing myself in the wrong place I have been directed here to ask some questions. I had my first game last weekend (well since having played a couple of games when game first released), so both my opponent and I were feeling our way around the rules and characters.

I have looked through the threads on various painted warbands and was well impressed. I fear that level of conversion and modelling is beyond me at the moment. As new players we are both still using the stock characters from main rulebook. I know there are various rules in both the main rulebook and Inquisitor Annual 2002 for creating random characters.  Any recomendations for newbie?

Luckily neither of us is going down the space marine route. He went for Covenant themed warband. I am sticking with my original plan of an Eisenhorn themed warband (although i need to replace my old Eisenhorn model as I lost my old painted Eisenhorn figure when I moved house). 

Should we stick to the book stats for stock figures? For example Josef just sucks because of his poor strength.  Do you just accept that as part of the character's quirks or try to remedy it?

What is best way of ensuring 2 warbands are relatively balanced? I know it is more of an RPG rather than a minatures games. But I would prefer that we have balanced warbands until we understand the game more and thus can do unbalanced scenarios.

Thanks

James

Quote from: wargame_insomniac on July 20, 2011, 12:12:26 AMI have looked through the threads on various painted warbands and was well impressed. I fear that level of conversion and modelling is beyond me at the moment.

Only if you let it be beyond you. You only improve if you try. Look at it as inspiration for what you'll be able to do rather than discouragement because you can't do it now.

QuoteI know there are various rules in both the main rulebook and Inquisitor Annual 2002 for creating random characters.  Any recommendations for newbie?

Well, two big ones.

Number one: Random generators aren't a very good way to go. It's your character, so you should take control over how good, bad or ugly average they might be in different areas. Pick the numbers yourself! However...

Number two: Don't make your characters supermen. Most of the players on the Conclave have erred towards "Conclave Standard" (http://www.the-conclave.co.uk/forum/index.php?topic=162.0) for a while now, which produces characters with lower stats than most of the rulebook characters.

Why? Well, several reasons. Firstly, there's no need for an arms race. If all characters are more modest in their stats, it's still all fairly equal.

Secondly, it makes the games more interesting and balanced. Because characters haven't got the profiles to be almost certain of dismembering their enemies before they roll, it's less dependent on who gets their actions first.

QuoteShould we stick to the book stats for stock figures? For example Josef just sucks because of his poor strength.  Do you just accept that as part of the character's quirks or try to remedy it?

Characters should have their quirks and weaknesses. Personally though, I house rule the great weapon rules so they only affect characters with strength less than 55.

You see, back when such things were still part of warfare, great weapons were actually usable. Sure, they were two handed weapons and you couldn't be a total weakling, but S 75 is just ridiculous.

QuoteWhat is best way of ensuring 2 warbands are relatively balanced?

Well, like I said above, modest stats do help. Beyond that, consideration in character design is a good one. If you're thinking "Oh man, this is going to be really killy" or something... is it really the right decision?

As a last resort, if someone's kicking more butt than they should, then take their stats down a notch.

You may find the game more fun, and more personal, if you're not using the stock characters. Looking around this conclave, quite a few people have gone so far as to use their main characters name as their Conclave Name (Kaled and Marco stand out, Charax did too, and theres more). This isn't 40k - if you want a special character, with unique abilities, you don't need a Special Character with Unique Abilities.

Thanks for replies.

On topic of conversions I have no experience of using greenstuff/milliput. I am rsstricted to doing simple weapon and head swaps. And at the moment constrained for alternative parts as I am out of work. Therefore I have been trying to pick up a few boxes cheaply on ebay to expand my options.

Good suggestion on relaxing the great weapon strength rule- that will make characters like Josef and Malicant more useful.

How useful is the Ready Reckoner at the back of the main rulebook? Was this ever updated by GW in Fanatic/Exterminatus/Fanatic Online?

I will have a look that the Conclave Standard.

Thanks

James

Quote from: wargame_insomniac on July 20, 2011, 01:59:55 PMHow useful is the Ready Reckoner at the back of the main rulebook?

Useless, and no, it was never updated. The effectiveness of a character can't be summed up in such a simply calculated number.

To give you an idea of how badly wrong it can be, I've seen characters of under a hundred points do better jobs more reliably than those of over three hundred. Not half as spectacular when it works, but it's more likely to work.

OK- if I cant rely on the Ready Reckoner, then I will need to pick your brains to get 2 initially balanced forces.

I will be facing Covenant, Dannica, Delhan Gruss and Josef.
I intend to have Eisenhorn, Slick, Severina & Sevora.
Would these be balanced between each other?

My other options currently are Damian and Barbaretta.

I know you guys normally use non-stock characters, but don't forget you have got several years on us. So trying to keep things simple until we both get the hang of things.

Thanks for the advice

James

[size=2010pt]2[/size] Inquisitors!!!  :o :o :o with dannica's power halbard and covanent's frostblade, your characters are stuffed. I will be a definite massacre.

I think I agree with Octavian. Not so much as to say a definite massacre, but he's got some pretty tough, well armoured and well equipped characters there.

Your guys are lightly armoured and less extravagantly equipped. You could win, but you'd need to know how to play your advantages and the odds are still somewhat stacked against you.

Quote from: Inquisitor Octavian Lars on July 20, 2011, 05:38:44 PM2 Inquisitors!!!

Not completely insane - Dannica was Covenant's acolyte at one point in time, although that would have been earlier in her life than her game profile represents (and, indeed, before she was an Inquisitor).

Heh, I had great fun breaking the Ready reckoner. Hilarious.

8 characters in a game is probably going to be a bit overwhelming for your second match, I'd go three a side, matching up Covenant/Gruss/Josef with Eisenhorn/Devouts or Eisenhorn/Slick/Barbaretta

His side has the armour, your side has the abilities, should even out pretty well, especially if there's a good objective involved (there will be an objective, right?)

Quote from: MarcoSkoll on July 20, 2011, 05:57:06 PM
Not completely insane - Dannica was Covenant's acolyte at one point in time, although that would have been earlier in her life than her game profile represents (and, indeed, before she was an Inquisitor).

They're using the stock profiles

Thanks guys- thats a big help.

Actually IIRC he said he was using downpowered version of Dannica to represent her as Covenant's acolyte. he did nt have a copy of the source material, but it did seem fair enough. is this the version of her stats in the fanatic pdf that I have found on resources link? or is that her as full Inquisitor?

I like your suggestions of 3 person match ups- that will be useful to get going.

Yes- we will need to plan out objectives beforehand.

Thanks

James

On the subject of conversion

I haven't done models for about 4 years. I've got 8 models (http://www.facebook.com/media/set/?set=a.2167155975494.125721.1144526973&l=09440466f7&type=1) that I'm doing, and I've not done much in the way of converting. There's been a few weapon swaps, and with just a pair of pliers and superglue I've done some nice changes.

Do the conversions... go on.... do it... Head swaps, weapon swaps, try a scratch build as your first project, whatever, it will all help you on your way.

Well so far I have kept it simple. Slick, Devout twins and Damian all stock. For Barbaretta I used the alternative helmeted head, and then added an Imperial Aquila to her shield (taken from W40k tank sprue and bent to fit).

I wanted a faceless enforcer to represent a nameless grunt. Thinking of painting her a dark blue- sort of W40k equivalent of modern day riot police.

If I can get hold of a 2nd enforcer then I will probably use the Barbaretta head and pistol arm and no riot shield, as this will be a more fluid figure, more of a lithe scout.

Cheers

James

meant to ask- what board size do you use? We played on standard club 6 foot by 4 foot board. To be honest it felt a bit cramped. With  a 10 yard sprint and multiple actions it seemed very tight. We used one inch per yard.

I think some people have played it with 1cm per yard- but this was with 28mm figures.

What do you recommend for 54mm figures?

Thanks

James

Well, when we meet up at Warhammer World, they only usually give us 6' x 4' tables, but we often ignore a foot on each end so we just get 4' x 4'. That's often large enough when you've got three players and a GM trying to fit a game into an hour - you don't want everyone stranded half way across the table.

However, the question, a lot of the time, is whether characters would actually be sprinting all over the place. It can also seem a lot smaller when you've got lots of Spd 5 and 6 characters.

Plenty of terrain to block lines of sight, and preferably add different heights to play over does help make the board seem bigger.

Ok- just checking we were nt doing it wrong. terrain wise we were a bit limited by what club has available. Normally cater for games such as W40k, WFB, Warmachine etc. We managed to get a table full of middle eastern style buildings. For 54mm figures this gave us fine single storey buildings.

What we lack is genuine multi-level scenary. We need some 54mm equivalent of the old GW Necromunda terrain. I had a look on ebay but I could nt see anyone doing 54mm scenary. Can you suggest anything? Budget is limited- not sure we would be able to get club to play for it unless we can get more people playing.

Thanks

James

The Cities of Death terrain range was actually deliberately designed to have big enough doors, windows and floors so as to believably fit Inquisitor as well as 40k. It's dual scale terrain, so even if not hugely pocket friendly, it can be put to use by all.

The use of 40k terrain for 54mm is quite well demonstrated in this nice picture (http://www.buildyourimagination.co.uk/minis/conclavespring11.php?i=DSCI0549.jpg) Greenstuff Gav took at the Summer Conclave earlier this month.

Thanks for the link- looks excellent.

re Cities of Death- that is worth knowing- thanks. I have tried for some time to pick up some Cities of Death terrain for W40k games. They usually go for fair amount on eaby- will keep on looking.

Cheers

James

Another question we had was how parrying/counter attacking worked. I wanted to re-read the main rulebook first to get my head around it.

Lets assume you had a character with WS70, weapon parry penalty of 15% and no other modifiers.  So this is presumably 55% chance of parrying and 40% chance of counter-attacking, if I am reading rulebook right.

i.e. roll of 01-45 means successful parry + opportunity of counter-attack
roll of 46-55 means successful parry but no opportunity of counter-attack
roll of 56+ means unsuccessful parry

Please can you confirm that i have understood counter-attacking correctly.

Thanks

James

Quote from: wargame_insomniac on July 21, 2011, 04:32:09 PMPlease can you confirm that i have understood counter-attacking correctly.

Essentially. You've just messed up the numbers slightly in the i.e. section (but got them right above that). It'd be 01-40 and 41-55 with a -15% PP.

And don't forget that a counter attack is not just attacks. It's a free action, and you can do anything you like with it. One memorable occasion was when one of my characters got a counter attack against their opponent's last action. They used it to back out of combat, giving their ally a clear shot to take the guy out.)

Of course, a popular option is dodging, which has no parry/reach penalties (or chance of counter attack), but a hefty +20% bonus.

Quote from: MarcoSkoll on July 21, 2011, 12:15:59 PMPlenty of terrain to block lines of sight, and preferably add different heights to play over does help make the board seem bigger.

Including "Oh lord! The floor is lava!" :)

Really and truly though, you should pick up a Slick, a Covenant, a Guardsman and a Stone model, tip all the bits onto your table and mix them up so you don't know what goes with what. Start piecing bits together, try and make models that are unique, rather than stock, and you'll enjoy the game a lot more. They don't have to be complex conversions, just something that you can call your own. 40k and Fantasty Ork arms work wonders as 54mm arms, and pretty much every weapon in 40k is passable as a 54mm weapon with few, if any, modifications required.

Give it a try, you might surprise yourself.

Thanks for clarification on counter attacking.

I had a GREAT afternoon. What made my day is that I found a small box of inquisitor figures that I had though I had lost when I moved house. I had looked for them several times in recent years but to no avail. Today I really turned the back room upside down and found them buried in a box within a box within a box.

Ironically when I got my first two figures when game first released I had done just what you suggested. I had an Eisenhorn and a Slick. I took a WFB daemon prince sword and put it in Eisenhorn's right hand instead of his normal sword. I then took the stubber from Slick and put it in Eisenhorn's left hand instead of the scabbard he was originally holding.

Then for Slick I had found an old W40k Ork shoota which I put in Slick's empty right hand (in place of the stubber that I had borrowed for Eisenhorn). I will use the Ork Shoota as an autogun. I left Slick holding the revolver in his left hand but positioned it so arm down. This still gives Slick a back up pistol.

So that now leaves me with following to chose from:

-Converted Eisenhorn with daemon sword and stubber
-Converted Slick with autogun and revolver
-Stock Slick
-Stock Devout twins
-Stock Damian
-Almost stock Barbaretta and Cyber mastiff

Plus unassembled Covenant and Josef

So I will be able to get 2 complete warbands out of these. I will probably keep one as stock models and then the other can have conversions.

I am now extremely happy and better get painting!!

Thanks

James