I'm looking to make up an eldar warband that keeps the fun of the Inquisitor game (aka doesn't break them) and one that is unique. Here's what I had come up with so far, 2 harlequins (thinking of a normal trooper and a spirit seer) I already have my Striking Scorpion made minus a few extra details I'll be adding soon. I was also thinking the last 2 could be a dark eldar (a warrior of some kind) and an exodite (still sketchy on this last one since I've never really seen exodite eldar.)
Any suggestions on rule sets and models used would be great, I've currently got an old ruleset and it doesn't seem to be working well enough with current rules... the key here with modeling is that these eldar are female, all of them... I'm working on a story line that would bring all this cast together but I figure the Harlequins have enough pull with some craftworlds that they can requisition troops even tho most craftworlds detest them I figure there's got to be some where Harlequins have shown up to defend a craftworld from destruction.
Not going to use a Wraith Guard, not using Solitare, nor any other OP (for this game) character, really want a basic cast but unique enough to get noticed and have people ask about them.
The reason for the request is due to me not being in the game for quite some time, I've forgotten just about everything about it besides the love for the game..
Huh... Eldar.
I cant give much for rules, but i can say theyll be better at humans at everything, except S and T, where theyll probably be lower than your average Guardsman but above civillians.
A scorpiin will have bonuses in cover, when crawling, ect.
Harlequins... Dodge, acrobat ect. And a to hit penalty for anyonne shooting at them.
now, my main problem is this. The DARK eldar. There is nothing in the whole universe that could make regular and dark eldar work together. Nothing at all. In this regard, i will advise you to change it out for an Eldar Ranger or something.
Exodites.... Theyre just Eldar who arent trained for fighting (much) and are less technological. My suggestions would be "Use an eldar Corsair, not an exodite."
I was thinking of that too, there's some sweet models from FW that I can use as visual aids for some Inquisitor models I get...
In past incarnations I had an enslaved dark eldar as someone who worked for the spirit seer, using rules to make him a puppet he had rules where if he rolled 2-23 to 80-100 he goes berserk and tries to lash out at the nearest ally...
He was fun but eventually I decided I wanted to remake my models in 54mm... So far the scorpion was a blast to make and with the rest I will probably use a pirate, 2 harle 2 eldar, hmmm would a Jetbike be op?
Quote from: Ramnok on October 26, 2011, 02:19:42 AMWould a Jetbike be op?
One problem with Jetbikes (and part of the reason I'm excluding them from my own NPC Aspect Warrior project) is that they're really too fast for such a small table.
One side of the table... whoosh... other side of the table... whoosh... upstairs bathroom... whoosh... next door's garden.
understandable, any suggestions on the other eldar? I've been trying to search through the codex finding something and nada's come up I want to stay away from a ranger character as he's over used (at least in my gaming circles)
The Scorpion is almost done and I had tons of fun making her, next only logical one would be a banshee.. Check out the painting and modeling sub forum for my Striking scorpion.
I may pick up another sevora/severina boxed set for more eldar, was thinking an NPC Bonesinger for some campaigns..
Hmm... An enslaved Dark Eldar? How didthat happen? Im ppretty sure a dark eldar would slit his own throat when he goes bezerk, rather than attack the nearest ally.Dark eldar are ruthless savage and dont take kindly to being held as slaves.
With a replacement in mind... A banshee would be OP. Considering they all have power weapons, and theyd have crazy bonuses for charging. I think your best bet would be a Dire avenger, or a guardian. If its cc your after, prehaps a storm guardian or even, as a leader, a Warlock.
If you do use a warlock, remember that thier powers arel readily available, withput the need to tap paticularily far into the warp. So to represent tha, all warlock powers should be cast as Wyrd powers.
The levels you're looking at in this regard are probably on a par with having an Astartes battle squad as a warband...
Harlequins are devastatingly powerful on the attack and while they might be something of a glass cannon their speed alone is likely to cause problems in an Inquisitor game... Not to mention the profusion of mind-blowing grenades they'll use (they're normally used for performance so there's no compunction against their use - I'd be expecting more than half a dozen per turn from that sized group... And with their speed that becomes another problem through the risky action system).
Why would an Aspect Warrior (and one in power armour no less) be travelling with Harlequins? Why would an Exodite?
(I'm not even going to go near the Dark Eldar)
While I seem to remember something about Harlequins visiting both sides (they're relatively safe from the Dark Eldar because their souls have no value to Slaanesh (He/she/it doesn't get those of the troopers or seers and he/she/it always gets the souls of Solitaires...)) but they shouldn't be treated as halfway between the two - they're a third party with their own goals.
I'd think about doing eldar from paths that haven't yet appeared elsewhere. For example, we've seen warriors, seers, bonesingers, rangers and pirates, so why not look at doing something different? Off the top of my head, how about a trader, explorer, archaeologist, minstrel, or starship officer? It'd give you a chance to flex your artistic muscles and do something original.
Well The Eldar Pirate I had ideas to flex my muscles on but I wanted to try to stick close to the codex, maybe those new spectres from forgeworld? tho they would be op huh... Damn you eldar and your epicly epicness...
That Navis Nobils model is just begging to be converted into eldar... So I must submit... lol.
As for the Dark Eldar slave he's only kept at the most basic brain functions, when he went berserk it was like a sudden rush of his psyche overloading his brain... It worked amongst my former gaming group but that was awhile back.
I've not seen all these eldar warbands, are there any links to that specifically? I've been looking around but only found a select hand full of models from this forum.
Quote from: InquisitorHeidfeld on October 26, 2011, 01:44:29 PMWhy would an Aspect Warrior (and one in power armour no less)
I'm not sure about older sources, but I've just checked my 3rd and 4th Ed Eldar codices and I'm pretty sure that Scorpion Armour is not powered. Sure, it's heavier than most Eldar armour (hence no Fleet rule in 40k), but a 3+ save alone does not power armour make.
(Yes, they used to be S4 in 3rd Ed, but that was said to be their own physical strength.)
Quote from: Ramnok on October 26, 2011, 05:10:46 PM
Well The Eldar Pirate I had ideas to flex my muscles on but I wanted to try to stick close to the codex,
My argument against that would be that the primary focus of the codex is the eldar going to war, and Inquisitor is not really about the war on the battlefields of the 41st millennium. Inquisitor focuses on the shadowy secret wars behind the scenes - which is part of the reason Heidfeld suggested that your warband may be overpowered as you're starting with archetypes designed to stand up to Astartes, Orks, Necrons etc.
Rather than looking at the codex itself I'd suggest good places to look for inspiration are the little sidebars in rulebooks, White Dwarf, codices etc, or the characters you see hanging around in the background of artwork and novels.
I'll take a look, My striking scorpion as of right know using the old rules posted on warseer she's got a max of 80 in a point and she's pretty fragile. I've checked out a few stats of other units and they are comparable.
I'll look around tho and show you all what I have lined up when I find some things.
I'm pretty set on using the Navis Nobilitai
http://www.games-workshop.com/gws/catalog/productDetail.jsp?catId=cat490043a&prodId=prod1110261 (http://www.games-workshop.com/gws/catalog/productDetail.jsp?catId=cat490043a&prodId=prod1110261)
Hopefully I can figure something out.
Anyone have some fluff sources on the seedier side of the eldar?
As a not entirely sarcastic suggestion, how about as using the Navigator as a Navigator?
Inquisitor is designed as a primarily Imperium centric game, with pretty much nine out of ten of the models made for the scale being human (or easily convertable, like the Eldar Ranger), so it would hardly be a daft idea to have at least some Imperial strings (not including Space Marines!) to your bow.
In any case, I really don't recommend using it here. It's not easy to convincingly convert masculine models to look female. The usual result (and no offence to your skills, I've done the same) is usually closer to a drag queen - it takes far more than just adding large breasts to do the job properly.
http://www.the-conclave.co.uk/forum/index.php?topic=1743.0 (http://www.the-conclave.co.uk/forum/index.php?topic=1743.0)
There she is, hope I did well enough... aaanyhow, I am going to revise my warband and perhaps use an imperial agent... but again I'm only testing the idea on you all to see how it works..
So here's the cast of the warband as I saw it.
Korvah of the Black Library, Spirit Seer. (Its a spiritseer from the black library... His motives are as mysterious as any inquisitors...) He originally started his quest with the appearance of Inquisitor Zephyr Bloodhilt. The Inquisitor's charge was to find the Atlas Infernal and in hearing such a thing the Spirit Seer set a plan in motion to retrieve the Atlas by following the Inquisitor. Eventually he gathered together the Eldar in his group currently. He still keeps tabs on the Inquisitor yet he has found nothing on it yet.
Vree the Black Corsair, Eldar Pirate. He was formerly from the Craftworld Kaelor but left when his kin refused to help their brothers and sisters. Has Shuriken Catapault, A Curved Poison Blade, Void Cloak (like a cameleoline cloak.) Shuriken Pistol (for backup) maybe Grenades depending on the scenario... He Uses the same stats as a black storm guardian
Celestia of Ibraesil, Striking Scorpion. Participated in previous campaigns with imperials and won a sacred relic of her aspect shrine, Scorpions Claw, has shuriken pistol attachment and Grenades. She met the Spirit Seer when his troupe visited her Craftworld. He spoke with her after the performance, giving her insight on what her path could be and showing her that her talents are better used outside of her beloved home.
and finally...
Shin'ta the Eidolon from Saim-Hann. Web of Skulls, Banshee Mask, Wraithbone Katana (poisoned), Shuriken Pistol. In a previous campaign she lost her powersword when it fell with a tech priest into the abyss of a Hive Spire. She often uses the Web of Skulls as a primary type weapon, becoming very fond of it when it killed a chaos cultist outright with a suffocating blow to the neck. She enjoys the brutality of the weapon.
comments would be welcome, also I really am not vibing with all the, "an all eldar warband cant be in Inquisitor" that everyone is throwing at me, I figured the love and passion of the game would be shared by fellow gamers.. eh... oh well
An all eldar warband is going to be powerful (perhaps overpowered by most standards) as eldar are physically, mentally and technologically superior to humans, however I think the other problem you have is you're looking at making a warband full of very powerful archetypes - seer, scorpion, pirate etc. If you made a warband made up of similarly powerful human archetypes you'd see similar objections - add to that the innate superiority of eldar and they don't really fit in most people's games. That's not to say it can't work, just that it'll take a bit more effort than most warbands. Most of the time, against commonly seen warbands, you'll probably be looking at using just a couple of eldar.
Also, the focus of the game is on 'The battle for the Emperor's soul' - while you obviously can include eldar in that, you have to put more thought into the background of your warband as you don't want the campaign as a whole or all the games to revolve around them and sideline other player's warbands.
On the other hand, good models get past a lot of objections...
Quote from: Kaled on October 27, 2011, 10:08:17 PMOn the other hand, good models get past a lot of objections...
Very true (RobSkib as much as insisted I take my Battle Sister when I was at the Summer 'Clave, despite her formidability), but to be blunt, Ramnok's modelling does feel a little rushed.
Looking at the Striking Scorpion thread, a lot of the armour has been added in about half a day, which would be pushing it even for a professional sculptor using a good putty oven. It feels less like an exercise in miniature art and more like an exercise in being able to play with a Scorpion.
It may not be, but it's easy for it to come across that way.
Working on number 1 and 2 there the 54mm models are coming when the cash does. I've since found that the storyline intertwines with another inquisitor, while he may not be a character you can see, he exists and is a focus on why the Seer is there, As I said previously the Seer hails from the black library and if you thought Eldar were mysterious this guys motives are beyond the eyes of most (tho it is there and playing through the campaign story I'm working on for a friend will tell more)
While it is rare to see aspects away from their shrine its definitely not unheard of. I put in the idea of an Eldar pirate in there to show all walks of Eldar life (which is originally why I had a Dark Eldar slave) and while it may be a "Battle for the Emperor's Soul" that certainly doesn't mean my characters cant be the villains in this case, aka incursions from without.
I've got a huuuuge background on all of them (2 days ago I spent all night writing...) and gave you guys the cliffnotes. If required to put some of you naysayers to rest I'll post the full stories (aka previous campaigns) in their entirety..
Would it be more prudent to make the Seer the NPC in this case with the rest being imperial standard? (aka guardians) and have the scorpion as the leader on the field? I'm trying to work with you guys here so I have the least amount of hassle when I play against others (my normal gaming league disbanded and I've not played since so looking for more in the South Florida area)
Suggest some visually stunning archetypes then for me that would not be OP yet still Eldar. Also after visiting the stats listings of the other forum goers my Eldar look a bit weak in the stats department..
My only thing is, The Eldar in this warband are away from their Craftworlds, have very basic equipment and not much in the way of being able to replace their gear if lost or destroyed. They have one NPC bonesinger who travels with them who is able to shape very basic equipment and can actually heal any wraithbone that was damaged (despite wraithbone's ability to regenerate)
I'm willingly trying to work with the community here so I can field a beautiful all Eldar warband (4 members on paper thus far) but with the least hassle to others. The pirate has ties with the black markets therefor getting common things for Eldar is a bit trickier then normal black market dealings and losing that model on the field (aka instadeath) he's gone and so are their ties to getting more wraithbone/equipment easier then having to fight through imperial controlled maiden worlds for what they need.
@Kaled: Easy yes, and I've actually taken 2 years to make this model... the sculpting armor portion came recently since I had the cash so.. I originally had the parts and she was made but no GS... so now that she did she got updated. I'm no professional sculptor but I do have several years of experience with modeling as with a year at the Art Institutes of Florida. Larger scales are easier for me since the small scales the detail can just get lost and I do work with some makeshift tools that get the job done. Not cool to suggest I rushed anything "just to use the model"
I put a lot of background thought into this and with my recent joining of the forum I did wish to show what I had worked with on the previous forum, and in all fairness she was my first "More greenstuff then metal" model...
I'm not sure I'd call it all that rushed - it seems like he (she?) has been working on the scorpion for a couple of weeks. That said, while the torso is rather good and shows a lot of promise the most recently added bits, the leg armour especially, isn't as good. Overall it's a good model, and could be great with some tidying up - and given how long it's been worked on for I don't get the impression it's just an exercise is making a powerful warrior. However if I was facing it across the table I think I'd prefer to see it alongside a less powerful warband than the one being proposed...
One last thing before I sleep - you wrote 'Also after visiting the stats listings of the other forum goers my Eldar look a bit weak in the stats department..'. Now I'm curious, what stats were you looking at for your elder and what are you comparing them to?
Also, have you read the eldar article in Dark Magenta? It's been a while since I looked at it so can't just remember what's in there but it should be of help to you.
Edit: I found it, reading it over now and as with stats, some of the stats I've seen posted on the forums for inquisitors and such, also using the old eldar rules that were on 40konline before it went down (or moved, I lost it... lol) I printed them all off and it gives the stats and details of all eldars you can field, it also went into length about how spacemarines and wraithlords are OP and characters should be as dynamic as possible...
After Reading the article I got a few new insights on the warband. I will definitely rework my concepts on them giving more walks of life then the warrior path The article cuts off saying there is a second and third part covered later, was that posted somewhere?
Currently out enjoying the weather so I figured you all could get an update.
Celestia is from a craftworld that is leaving the galaxy they currently are some ways in to the void. Her shrine was lost to orks on a maidenworld they wagggghed so she wanders with a corsair who has his own ship it's a smallish freighter but she runs they travel with a bonesinger who is quiet the artist yet knowing how to fight as he was once a ranger an they also travel with a soulstone keeper who has stayed on the path of caretaker and was with celestia at the maiden world falling to orks. This is Me™ so my ideas are mine lol.
Any thoughts now sirs? I love this idea better
Quote from: Ramnok on October 27, 2011, 11:56:57 PM
I printed them all off and it gives the stats and details of all eldars you can field, it also went into length about how spacemarines and wraithlords are OP and characters should be as dynamic as possible...
While I would be interested in seeing the list you compiled, I wouldn't say it's a list of all the eldar you can field. Inquisitor warbands shouldn't just be defined by lists of archetypes and stats like picking units from a codex. Also I would be wary of just using stats you find on the internet - there have been some really poorly written fan rules over the years (and some good ones).
QuoteThe article cuts off saying there is a second and third part covered later, was that posted somewhere?
I don't know if it was ever written - Saussure might know. The guy who wrote it ended up writing for FFG's 40k RPGs so I'm not sure he ever completed the article.
As for your idea, it sounds like it has promise, but I'm not enough of an eldar expert to really comment. I guess my question would be - why are they involved in the battle for the Emperor's soul? Why don't they just go home? Also, do they need a ship? Could they not be attempting to get where they're going by wandering the webway and hitching passage on Imperial starships where necessary?
Quote from: MarcoSkoll on October 26, 2011, 06:03:35 PM
Quote from: InquisitorHeidfeld on October 26, 2011, 01:44:29 PMWhy would an Aspect Warrior (and one in power armour no less)
I'm not sure about older sources, but I've just checked my 3rd and 4th Ed Eldar codices and I'm pretty sure that Scorpion Armour is not powered. Sure, it's heavier than most Eldar armour (hence no Fleet rule in 40k), but a 3+ save alone does not power armour make.
(Yes, they used to be S4 in 3rd Ed, but that was said to be their own physical strength.)
And in the Rogue Trader Compilation IIRC. The difficulty with that would be that when they put on the mask of the Hawk they'd lose that strength... But I agree that it isn't Power Armour in the Imperial sense.
Typing out "exceptionally heavy armour which is fully enviro-sealed, incorporates built in weaponary and increases strength" though seemed a bit much ;)
Ramnok:
If you consider your original warband as if they were Imperial archetypes I think you'll get an idea of what some of us mean.
Your Shadowseer is a potent psyker and not shabby in personal combat (plus he spits out grenades like they're candy) and could probably be placed as an Inquisitor equivalent...
Your Corsair is something of a Rogue Trader...
Your Striking Scorpion is an exceptionally elite warrior in the heaviest armour available and with training which puts him far ahead of the rest of his species (or most of them) and should be placed as the equivalent of an Astartes (he's not as strong or tough but he's faster and more skilled).
Then you have your Harlequin Trooper - probably an assassin archetype given the lack of armour but the hugely intense speed (I'd be expecting a Harlequin to have a Speed rating of 7 or 8), although whether he would be counted as equal to one of the Temple Assassins is debatable.
Even ignoring the Dark Eldar I hope you can see where some of the objections are coming from.
I think its perfectly possible that if an Eldar changes Aspect or Path away from Scorpion, they become weaker - as such a potently psychic race, their bodies would be affected by the way they think, and the Paths and Aspects are ways of thinking. The Farseers are evidence of this - eventually, they become Crystal Seers, literally changing into crystal. Becoming stronger because thats what the Scorpion Path teaches isn't that hard to imagine. And changing Path wouldn't just be a matter of donning a different mask, any more than changing faith is a matter of saying different words.
Well the Bonesinger who was once a Ranger still knows how to use the weaponry just not as expert in the skills that made him such a potent fighter, currently tho he is a bonesinger and practices this when not on the field of battle. He's just a bit weaker since taking on the bonesinger path.
I based my current story on what I read in dark magenta about how the eldar are and decided to deviate slightly from craftworld armies and more for dynamic story telling.
I'll post the full story over in IC so keep an eye out for it!
I was wondering, how much of their skills do eldar retain when they move onto a new path? I was really good at swimming when I was a child, but can barely swim a few lengths now - is it kinda like that but magnified - i.e. They know exactly how to do it out but are out of practice? Or is it that when they move on to a new path they pretty much shut away their experiences from the old path and start afresh on the new one?
Do eldar generally come back from the path of the outcast - it's not really a path, more a rejection of the whole path system.
From what I read eldar can become entwined on the path which are exarchs the outcast don't always leave on bad terms just that they want to explore unhindered by protocol and the strict paths that the craftworld can, the issue is not if they leave it's banishment
Also they are allowed to freely switch paths if they feel they have accomplished what they set out to do
I always thought that this picture would be a great reference for building an eldar for Inquisitor;
http://lh4.ggpht.com/_v-QnkPLGATg/S4deYFNYKBI/AAAAAAAABO4/5DAKfWVzuhc/eldar_lg.jpg
Or maybe the Titan crew from this one (although probably not as Titan crew);
http://www.dakkadakka.com/s/i/at/2008/3/9/8f3c026131da7a5e50c7122466700a6d_518.jpg__thumb
I really like the one on the far right in the second one with the titan crew... I may work on something like that.. That has potential for one of mine, what does that title read for him tho I cant see it.
If you don't make that Eldar Assassin, I may have to :D Which, along with my Outcast, Harlequin, and Dark Eldar, would give me enough for a warband :P
Actually, an Eldar Assassin and his/her support team would make an excellent Inquisition Alien warband. You have the stone cold killer, perhaps even an Aspect Warrior - the Aspect of the Knife, I assume? A sort of Eldar Officio. Then you have the Seer, perhaps one whose a bit physically worn out, needing the Eldar version of augmetics (what happens to Eldar cripples?) who guides the assassin. A human spy, who can ferry information (but might not appear on the table much). The pilot, who gets the team in and out safely. Perhaps some of psyops/infowar specialist as well. Powerful, yes, but easily limited by roleplay (they have a target, and it must be done in this way, because the Seer says so) and not quite so powerful as multiple Aspect Warriors and a Shadowseer. The Scorpion you've already made could be the Farseer who has sent them's tool for controlling them, and a display of the power of the Eldar to a team too close to the edge...
Nice idea. It is indeed an assassin - send me a PM next week and I'll look and see if I can find a copy of the sketch that I can scan in so you can see him properly.
Ah! okay then I like him, will go with that. I have a Bonesinger going to join the cast along with my corsair pilot and perhaps a combat medic type aspect The Bonesinger could have once followed the path of assassin yet in doing so he had to kill many of his own kin (eldar not his own craftworld..) so as a means to distance himself from it he becomes a bonesinger to help heal not harm (doesn't have the psychic training for a healer)
That when an Eldar takes off the Mask of the Scorpion he becomes weaker, or less agile when taking off the mask of the Banshee...etc. is perfectly valid - I'm certainly not contesting the idea.
The corrolary to that though is that, whether it's augmetics built into the armour or the psychic potential of the individual Eldar reinforcing certain attributes in response to the ritual of putting on the armour, the very act of putting on the armour increases the wearer's strength (in the case of the Scorpion Aspect) and therefore the best existing method by which to describe it is as power armour.
On the subject of the Aspect of the Knife...
I personally don't feel that it fits within the Aspects of Keala Mensha Khain, Khaine is rage, his violence is more direct than would suit an assassin - the closest he gets are the Scorpions...
I wouldn't therefore suggest that Assassins be an Aspect.
I'm not sure how an Eldar Assassin could function TBH. The problem again being one of masks.
Any Eldar who can do the task required without a mask would be considered psychotic and not trusted with it, but because of the way Eldar work the mask would be about equivalent to a Vindicare wearing a large neon sign with the flashing message "Here is an Assassin" in letters two feet high. Among the Mon Keigh it's likely that they would take a while to catch on but still...
What about a mask beneath a mask? That'd suit an assassin.
Besides it's unclear what kind of Assasin the eldar have, hired killers? Just a very stealthy up close aspect? Do they specialise in killing enemy officers and officials, or would they kill other eldar?
exploring and answering these questions are what inquisitor would be good at, getting back on topic.
I think that'd take on the pathfinder/ranger role for assassins as the political type assassin we think of for MVP's would be considered an act of self indulgence would it not? How would one answer that question unless they were Eldar.
I'd think that would be carried out by the pathfinder/ranger path yet not for their own people as they are considered a family, it would be the greatest crime to kill a fellow craftworlder.