Adlan has agreed to let me use a dark eldar hellion for my warband for the manchester RPG soc campaign that is being planned, but I need to get some feedback from clavers before I can try it out in a game.
The warband will be my hellion and 2 slaves; the slaves will have worse than average stats and are there as pack mules/convenient snacks (Yum, fresh souls)
For now, here is the first draft rules for the hellion, background will turn up after I've tweaked it a bit and I'll post up the on foot model as soon as I get some batteries for my camera:
Astarael Ysnarrc
Cliffnotes Backstory (until I finish the full one):
-Former Hellion
-Managed to get into the Wych Arenas and did ok for herself
-killed an upcoming member of a kabal sponsored cult in the arena
-archon of said kabal took it personally and ordered her killed
-Astarael attempted counter-assassination to protect herself (and cos she was *ahem* mildly annoyed)
-got there to find the archon's second-in-command had beaten her to it
-fled commoragh to save herself
-now searching the galaxy to gather the power to get revenge and return to commoragh
-currently attempting to subvert an imperial world for the manpower to produce the weapons, drugs, dark eldar food (the citizens themselves) to stage an attack on the kabal itself
haven't named the kabal yet, if anyone has any ideas, please post them, I'll take all the help I can get
WS 88
BS 47
S 56
T 43
I 120
Wp 69
Sg 82
Nv 90
Ld 59
Armour; 3: chest, right arm, right leg. 2: left arm, abdomen, head, 1: groin, left leg [this will make more sense after I post the image]
Hellglaive: Reach-3 Dam-D10+2 Parry-10% +First parry uses full WS, second uses 3/4 WS, third uses 1/2 WS, fourth and subsequent parries use 1/4 WS. [perfectly balanced wych-weapon, and has had 300+ years of training with it]
2 Hallucinogen poisoned throwing daggers (poisoned for first hit only)
Vampirism, Cat Fall, Nightvision, acrobatic, dodge (On half I)
Thirst: at the end of every turn in which she did not use her vampirism ability, Astarael loses D6 willpower
1 dose Adrenalight: Re-roll failed actions in combat, add D10 damage per failed action after re-rolls (1 turn)
1 dose Grave Lotus: +D10 strength, subject to frenzy, may not perform any action in combat besides attacking or parrying (D3 turns)
1 dose Splintermind: Immune to thirst, but test vs Wp each turn or subject to hallucinogen table (D6 turns)
Skyboard- I'll work out the rules once I've finished the model, but suggestions would be welcome
All comments and criticisms are welcome, but please give a reason, explanation or suggestion for improvement with any criticism;
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OP
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is the standard response on a lot of forums to home-made rules and its not helpful (short rant over)
That Initiative is... rather generous. The Eldar article only gave the higher "level" Eldar I 110-120, so even on wych drugs, that's pretty high.
My bigger quibble though is that it's combined with Dodge. By my maths, that means that using dodge would inflict an average of almost -80% on attempts to hit her (and a minimum, if passed, of a hefty -32%).
That's just not cricket.
Dodge is highly underestimated. Using it on a character with mortal initiatives can make characters an utter bitch to hit, so it's really too much on an Eldar.
Wyches only get their invulnerable save in hand to hand - and her high WS will well represent her ability to dodge bullet and blade at that distance.
Quote+WS only goes down by 10% after each parry instead of halving [perfectly balanced wych-weapon, and has had 300+ years of training with it]
From experience, I've found that characters who merely use the buckler rules of a 1/4 reduction each time can still be combat monsters*. The extra bonuses for the longer reach really make a difference.
*Not invincible though, as it turned out at the 2010 Spring Conclave. Despite plentiful attacks and counter attacks building up his WS penalties, Rauridh kept making his dodge rolls, the jammy git.It might be better to re-evaluate as such - lift the buckler rules, including the 0% PP.
This should prove quite formidable enough on its own. It'll improve things on the first parry, but should avoid your opponents falling foul of an impossibly long chain of parries and counterattacks.
I think dodge is quite appropriate, actually, and not terribly excessive given that A) the Hellion represents the only significant threat in the group and will therefore draw the most fire, and B) dodge can only be used once per turn.
Marco's right about the parry thing, and I say this from a place of experience - one of my first Inquisitors (Aurelius, in fact - my old handle) was WILDLY overpowered, not least because of a rule just like that. (And it was then nicked from the original Conclave and placed on the Pangolin Saloon, which only compounded my error.)
Thirst seems excessive. It appears that you're giving the character a drawback purely for the sake of balance, which in my opinion is seldom a good angle from which to approach Inquisitor. Besides which, it seems to me that if the thirst were THAT strong, they wouldn't be able to function. (Granted, I've only skimmed the new Dark Eldar codex.) Unless it's something specific to this one character?
Finally, the skyboard. Clearly, a Hellion isn't a Hellion without one. I'm therefore going to ask you to consider carefully whether this character actually needs to be a Hellion. I ask this because being able to move at extremely high speeds and without regard for obstacles simply isn't all that conducive to good gameplay on a board of any reasonable size. That said, if you're really in love with the idea then I truly wish you all the best with it. :)
I take your point about the parry thing, I'll sort that out. as zakkeg pointed out; dodge is once per turn and as she will be one hell of a target, its staying.
the skyboard is just cos I love skyboards, adlan will be finding reasons why its inappropriate for some (a lot of) missions eg stealth missions, hence why I made an on foot version first.
Also, I get your point about the initiative, but consider: an eldar is naturally fast, a craftworld eldar goes through various paths during their life and the combat based ones (and possibly some sort of dancer one) improve their reflexes etc. a dark eldar, particularly a hellion or wych, spends their entire life in a society where the only way to survive is to be faster, stronger or more skilled than anyone who comes after you, and as you get stronger/faster/more skilled, you attract the attention of stronger/faster/more skilled dark eldar in a self perpetuating cycle. think of it as over 300 years of speed training, and you'll see why I gave her such a high initiative
also, being insanely fast is sorta her shtick
buckler rules are now modded in
Quote from: Zakkeg on December 13, 2011, 08:20:25 AMI think dodge is quite appropriate, actually, and not terribly excessive given that A) the Hellion represents the only significant threat in the group and will therefore draw the most fire, and B) dodge can only be used once per turn.
While the idea is not unjustifiable, any roll that will almost certainly be passed and almost certainly means that her opponents will miss, even if it "can only be used once per turn", is almost certainly excessive. If I used a "first attack per turn automatically misses" rule (which this is barely removed from), people would call me on it, and rightly so.
Plain Dumb Luck can turn games, and that's only a -60% once per
game.
It would be more appropriate to either modify it so it was a lesser bonus, but could be used more than once* - or have the skyboard have some high (but not completely unassailable) movement modifiers so that she has to keep moving to stay protected. In the latter case, I'd suggest house ruling motion predictors though, else they would otherwise be be rather gamebreaking. The next version of the Revised Armoury will (when it is finally released...) use the following:
"Target movement penalties to shooting are reduced by -20%, to a minimum of 0%." - to avoid making particularly fast or agile targets fish in a barrel to a motion predictor.
*A possible solution to this would be allow her to use only part of her initiative per test. She could test at, say, Initiative 80, which would leave 47 points left over for other tests later on in the turn. In theory, she could still test at more (or maybe even her full) initiative against a particularly nasty attack she really wanted to avoid, but it would leave her with little protection against any other attacks.
In theory, this IS more powerful**, but as it would encourage her inflicting lesser penalties (and the increased risk of failed tests) for the chance of more dodges later, it would actually be better balanced. This could actually be a good call on Dodge in general.
**It could in theory be reined in a bit by capping the Initiative she could use though. A cap at 100 wouldn't be unreasonable.
Perhaps both could be appropriate, but in that case, I'd suggest they would need to be toned down or "dodge" would be either penalised or unusable while mounted.
Dodging while on the skyboard would be nearly impossible. One can't jump aside or anything like that while on it, at least not without a serious chance of falling off.
For the normal dodging, perhaps she can dodge twice per turn but eacht uses only half her initiative. That would make her a lot more hittable. This would be a bit simpler than Marco's option.
I heartily approve of a bit of slap-stick in a character and the image falling off a skyboard has put a massive grin on my face.
Two dodges which you have a 60% chance of succeeding seems a bit excessive but I don't have the experience to be sure or offer a solution.
I'm gonna go: dodge on half initiative, if on skyboard failure means she falls off
you can too dodge on a skyboard, have you never heard of the 'barrel roll'
and you're right that thirst is meant as a balancer, but it's not actually that farfetched; the dark eldar are exposed to she who thirsts for a couple of days at a time and they are mildly affected by it, Astarael has been outside of commoragh for several decades at least, with no reprieve. The rule is not entirely the actual thirst, its partially a case of paranoia, that she is very distracted while she doesn't feel protected by refreshing her soul.
Might state that if she hits 0 wp she is not removed from the game completely, but sort of collapses having a nervous breakdown or somesuch, no real difference in game, but could be an entertaining story.
also note, when I make the slaves, she is allowed to replenish herself from them at will while close enough to make contact, so its only a serious problem when she's all alone, without the emotional crutch of a ready supply available.
that said, if you can think of a better way of handling it, please tell me.
A barrel roll could be done, I must confess that I don't know much about the mobility of a skyboard. It would of course have to be a done at a certain distance from the ground. Dodges on a Skyboard wouldn't be impossible, they would just be a bit harder than normal.
If you want an idea for mobility, they are basically the green goblins board
Ive lowered her I to 120, I realised 127 gave her spd 8, which is possibly going a little too far