Not really a massive fan of using it, and I don't own any models who wear it,
but as a one off I am considering using a power armoured model as a puritan straight down the line inquisitor,
I appreciate it can be very powerful in a game and i am considering having a power and non-power armour equipped model for the same person
I was wondering on your thought's on power armour in games are, and in general for that matter
From my point of view, as both a GM and a player, there is a time and a place for power armour. It is, indeed, a powerful piece of equipment, but that doesn't mean that it shouldn't ever be used. The same thing can be said for power weapons, bolt weapons, and many pieces of legendary kit. They're rare, expensive to obtain and maintain, and they tend to make it tricky to go anywhere incognito. However, this probably isn't something that monodominants tend to worry about.
However, a point of view which seems to be very popular on The Conclave is that if you have a particularly nice model which has had a lot of love and labour put into it, people are often more willing to accept it as being powerful. To put it another way, a player's willingness to go up against a powerful opponent is inversely proportional to how nice the powerful model in question actually is.
I think that this philosophy stems from the idea that as a player plays these sorts of games, and forms a collection of miniatures, they grow in their skills both as a reasonable and fun opponent, but simultaneously their skills with sculpting tools and paintbrushes. If you have something powerful, but the model is nice, players assume that since you are a seasoned gamer, you will know how to play with something powerful in the correct spirit of the Inquisitor game.
But that's just my two one hundredths of an Imperial credit. Anyone else is free to interpret these things however they like. :P
Thanks,
I agree I dont mind playing powerful things from people who play too the spirit of the game,
the inquisitor I had in mind is a very basic conversion of the tyrus model, rules wise he is a psychic null so no psychic powers at all, not even the pariah ability,
I've played games against warbands with so much power and carapace armour it felt as if i was playing against a 40k marine army, the game wasnt enjoyable and was a kill fest, safe too say the GM wrote the game off as he didnt realise how much power was present, but on the other side of the coin, i've played games where there is a suit of power armour present and the opponent's character was a combat orientated one, so could be kept at bay and pinned down,
I think its powerful yet if used right people wont mind provided you dont field a full tactical squad ;)
I myself have one character in power armour, I made it very bulky limiting his mobility, I also decided to not give him ranged weapons while wearing it, as I felt that that would easily make him too powerful. In his armour he has walked through hails of gunfire but he only got into hand to hand combat when a character was cornered, in the open most people have the intelligence to run away from the lumbering inquisitor.
He also has a model without power armour which is used more often, power armour isn't put on in a short time after all.
Overall, the issue is not just that of in-game power, it's about that of subtlety.
As a game of Inquisitor is often a chance meeting, the fact that a character might be wearing power armour in such a game would imply they wear it almost constantly. And that doesn't make subtle investigations very easy - take Precinct Omega's Inquisitor Haiku:
Power armoured tank.
Force Halberd and Storm Bolter!
Your informant flees...
So, as it is, I only have one character in power armour, a Battle Sister.
She was reduced to AV 8 (that armour isn't as thick as Tyrus') and she'll eventually be tagging along as the primary bodyguard of an Ecclesiarchy warband who will otherwise be fairly combat incompetent, so she shouldn't be too overwhelming.
As far as the subtlety, a Battle Sister might be noticeable, but as the Ecclesiarchy's primary military force and frequently used as bodyguards, they're probably not that uncommon to see around a planet. Not to mention that the Ecclesiarchy are a lot less worrying than the Inquisition. (As who else, other than the Sororitas, Astartes or Mechanicus - all easily recognisable - is likely to be wearing power armour?)
I may eventually do her an unarmoured model, but as it is, the noisy Ministorum preacher she'll be accompanying would welcome being accompanied by such an obvious example of the Emperor's faith and might. (And as I'm planning on building him a mobile pulpit with braziers, laud-hailers and tank tracks, I don't think he really understands the concept of incognito anyway.)
And she does tie into what Ynek said. I put loads of effort into modelling her - weeeekkks of sculpting work. So when I had her at the Summer Conclave, I actually had RobSkib trying every last excuse to get her into a game. (Which he did eventually get to see when he GMed one of the games and insisted on giving Cortez a load of NPC allies to balance it all out. She chainsaw-bayoneted one of them in half.)
If you've put enough effort into a model, then it really does change how people react to its "power level".
Quote from: MarcoSkoll on January 22, 2012, 04:15:35 PMIf you've put enough effort into a model, then it really does change how people react to its "power level".
This.
No offence to anyone who uses the Tyrus model (I have as well! Solidarity!), but I find this is often the least interesting way to get a power armoured model into the game. Gav juuuust about squeezes past my sceptic-o-meter with his Tyrus conversion, but that's because he has a fair few power armoured models, and knows how to write them (and convert them) in such a way to make them interesting.
Scratch build your own sister of battle from iconic 40k artwork? Well... lets just see how many cultists I have in my box, shall we?
I see what you mean,
The guy I have planned is based on the tyrus model, no power knife, replacing his bolt pistol and a head sap and a few other alterations, he has a team of 5 others with him, and the back story for him in brief is that he and his forces are busy quelling a mutant uprising hence why he's in his power armour form, I am doing a more basic model for him with less armour when hes needed for everything other than a mass brawl
Which head and weapons are you going to give him?
I also wonder about his 'friends', what kind of characters will they be?
well, in his power armour, a power fist and an inferno pistol, no psychic powers,
acolyte - flak on chest abdomen, stub gun, sword, knife, possibly a psychic power or 2
2 enforcers - shield, stub gun, shock maul, flak on chest and limbs, open helmet
arbite - carapace all over. shotgun, maul, shield(maybe), helmet
priest - padded robes (2 points armour on legs chest abdomen and groin), not sure what else yet
im hoping not over powered (obviously there is a power armoued nutter leading it)
he is a puritan straight down the line sort of guy, this is his warband for this campaign,
I would try to not give the inferno pistol to the inquisitor. It is a hugely powerful weapon in the right hands, I still regret the day that my girlfriend's rogue trader got a digi version of it.
Other than that, it might be interesting to have a few more different characters, as there basically are three enforcer-types in the band. Although it could also lead to an interesting dynamic with them having different views of how the law should be enforced and what the law actually is.
The inferno pistol will probably be the only time I don't play a weapon as wysiwyg,
the arbite is your typical arbite, all singing and dancing the emperor, planetary governor did no wrong
the enforcers are a pair of twin girls from the planet the uprising is on and are very suspicious of the arbite's method and are loyal too the people not the governor
Quote from: Knobby2 on January 22, 2012, 07:56:27 PM
The inferno pistol will probably be the only time I don't play a weapon as wysiwyg
This is where you are likely to run into a problem. An inferno pistol is an incredibly powerful piece of kit and to give it to someone in power armor and not go to the trouble to create something that credibly looks like one is likely to get you accused of power gaming. Basically if you get too close to this guy you will get crushed or vaporized. Not to mention the fact that if you're playing a monodominant then your giving yourself a character who isn't prone to compromise (though I could hypothetically reserve judgement until seeing the full character write-up.
To echo and expand on what has already been said, there are generally two acceptable methods to putting a powerful character on the board:
1) With a beautiful customized and WYSIWYG model or
2) With a really fantastic background
If you have both then it's a home run. If you're using lightly converted Tyrus model and giving him powerful wargear that isn't represented then you're headed for trouble*.
*As a disclaimer this is completely dependent on your gaming group. If you're running into Harlequins and Space Marines every scenario then it's a different situation. However if the SMs and Harlequins don't follow rules 1, 2 or both from above then I'd suggest having a serious discussion with your group about how everyone plays Inquisitor.
I can only echo what everyone else is saying, make sure its a nice conversion and you have a great reason behind what you're giving the character, as for the inferno pistol, go for it, but make sure you're doing it for the right reasons (ie backstory) not just being broken, for example my gm has a character with a digi-inferno pistol, but the story behind it makes sense (a gift from one of the higher ups in the ecclesiarchy) so it's acceptable (plus its his first response in CC and he's quite clearly using Falcon Paawnch, so it's very entertaining) as a counterexample, I met someone in my local GW who had his inquisitor figure with him, which was a SoB with a shoulder mounted assault cannon and no explanation as to why she was lugging it around, I have a Dark Eldar Hellion (with skyboard) and even I thought it was powergaming.
Make sure you're closer to the former example than the latter
A shoulder mounted assault cannon :o
as for how heavily converted, due too real life it wont be too heavily converted, head swap, weapon swap, changing iconography losing his power knife and adding gs detail here and there, and I'm half decent on back stories, its mainly for a campaign specific band,
there is a rather toned down version of the same guy ive got planned
but I agree i enjoy playing against nice conversions and good back stories, not the good old this is ron he found his lascannon with under slung plasma gun and force weapon bayonet in a charity shop approach
I also sit there and think if that was thrown against me would i have an enjoyable game or just watch my warband get decimated, The odd 'hard' character can be over come, a warband full isn't fun at all
Quote from: Mordenkenain on January 23, 2012, 10:29:11 PMI have a Dark Eldar Hellion (with skyboard) and even I thought it was powergaming.
The guy building a 54mm Titan thinks it's powergaming.
There's using a powerful character because it's an interesting character/cool model, and there's using a powerful model because it's a powerful model.
Quote from: RobSkib on January 22, 2012, 06:13:23 PMScratch build your own sister of battle from iconic 40k artwork? Well... lets just see how many cultists I have in my box, shall we?
Cortez still had a tough time of it - she really did turn out to be blessed every time he tried to stop her. Failed psychic tests, perils of the warp, jamming bolters... there wasn't a scratch on her or her armour by the end of the game. Plenty of blood though, I'm sure.
Quote from: MarcoSkoll on January 24, 2012, 03:22:47 AM
Quote from: RobSkib on January 22, 2012, 06:13:23 PMScratch build your own sister of battle from iconic 40k artwork? Well... lets just see how many cultists I have in my box, shall we?
Cortez still had a tough time of it - she really did turn out to be blessed every time he tried to stop her. Failed psychic tests, perils of the warp, jamming bolters... there wasn't a scratch on her or her armour by the end of the game. Plenty of blood though, I'm sure.
She must have been very good at keeping up her prayers then.
But a shoulder-mounted assault cannon, ouch. We also have one character with a digi-inferno pistol, it's an ancient relic of a powerful rogue trader dynasty, and the character using it isn;t much of a fighter, she has powerful equipment but lacks the skill to really use it to great effect.
Currently, I've got two Power Armoured models, one a Word Bearer, the other a possibly-traitor-possibly-not Inquisitor. Both of them are intended to be Big Bads who take to the battlefield either 1) on their own 2) with a mission that can be stopped without fighting them to much or 3) in the company of some rabble for a large game, where weight of numbers can be turned against them.
I'd love to GM that assault cannon... "Ok, so WYSIWYG, right? I can't see any support frame or servo arms to absorb the recoil, so every time you fire, it counts as Knockback damage against you, ignoring armour." The great thing about silly models like that is they are usually not very well thought out...
That I'm sure is the result of the old (and AFAIK still current) rule for Orks... the one where anything you can stick on there counts... while I miss the old Battlewagon rule (Transport: As many models as you can fit into it) I tend to think it was 'Ere We Go, Freebooterz and the removal of detrimental Chaos Attributes which really kicked off the powercreep which is now rife in both game and fluff.
Perhaps... but for the Orks, I can accept it, because it's the Orks. So much is acceptable "because they're Orks".