Recently I promised to build a 28mm squat for the warband of my girlfriend's little brother. I just can't decide on what would be a nice weapon for him. Does anyone have an idea for how to equip him?
The other people in the warband are a former mercenary acolyte, a hive ganger and a deathworlder. It is a bit combat oriented but that is mostly because they serve as muscle for an interrogator who hardly ever fights.
A large blunderbuss. Preferably taller than he is. Think the oriental fight sequence of pirates of the caribbean 3. I know squats are meant to be technologically advanced, so maybe the blunderbuss could count as a high calibre shotgun.
Looking at the old squat models, I'd say las weapons are the way to go...
http://www.solegends.com/citcat911/c2053squats-h.htm
http://www.solegends.com/citcat911/c2054squatscmd-h.htm
try this for ideas; http://www.the-conclave.co.uk/forum/index.php?topic=1838.0 (http://www.the-conclave.co.uk/forum/index.php?topic=1838.0)
and it looks like anything available to the imperium is permissible as well as shuriken catapults(?!)
I think that I will be going for the good old lasgun. Thanks a lot for the old pictures, I keep forgetting that website somehow.
Lasblunderbuss? Please? ;D
Squats of old were an abhuman culture which had sustained its civilisation through a long period of isolation (during which the high gravity of their worlds compressed their physiques).
They were closely monitored by the Adeptus Mechanicus because they had an interesting affinity for technology beyond that expected. The implication is that the AdMech were there to watch for TechnoHeresy rather than to assist.
While the standard Squat small-arms do tend to be las weapons that's probably more to do with the ubiquity of mass produced las weapons for the military (and the fact that the Squat army lists were designed around Squats as Imperial forces as opposed to Hearth forces) than any preference as such...
In heavy weapons Squats tended to use Plasma or Melta, though they switched towards the Heavy Bolter when the Plastics came out.
It's in their more unique equipment though that I think you see the "racial" preference. The Hearthguard, the Hearthguard Exo-Armour and the Squat Choppers & Trikes are all Bolter armed, the Trikes tending to add Meltas.
It may be that a Bolt weapon is "too harsh" of course...
Given the Hells Angels image that the Squats were given, seemingly simply to stop them being "Space Dwarves" one would have to draw parallels toward the orkoids and suggest that the noise and fury was a part of things; that, given the choice, a Squat would probably prefer "B-b-b-b-b-b-bratt!!!" than "Pew-pew!".
I would therefore suggest autoguns as a secondary preference.
As an aside, Shuriken Catapults haven't always been Eldar only. My own ruling (having a couple of characters who have shuriken catapults as a sort of elegant hunting weapon) is that Eldar Shuriken catapults are the long slender design and use gravatic technology to accelerate a monomolecular sliver of plastic to vast speeds whereas the Imperial version uses magnetic rails to accelerate a much more massive projectile to much lower speeds – they therefore have larger. Lewis gun style drum magazines and the crossbow-like appearance.
Quote from: InquisitorHeidfeld on February 06, 2012, 05:00:31 PM
They were closely monitored by the Adeptus Mechanicus because they had an interesting affinity for technology beyond that expected. The implication is that the AdMech were there to watch for TechnoHeresy rather than to assist.
I'm not sure I agree with that - squats were the only abhuman type commonly seem occupying positions of authority, including within the Adeptus Terra, Inquisition and Adeptus Mechanicus. Some squat engineers were known to reach senior positions within the Mechanicus, and squat forces were commonly accompanied by Tech-Priests who were fascinated by the natural technical expertise of the squats and were eager to learn more of their technology. I don't see anything to suggest the Mechanicus generally suspected the squats of tech-heresy, in fact the two sides seem to have had very close ties.
There are instances even in modern fluff of the Imperium military still using instances of Squat technology, such as the Leviathans used by the Imperial Guard. One can also argue that it appears that the Demiurg who are currently seeming to work with the Tau Empire via bits from Battlefleet Gothic are survivors or related to the Squats, or possibly some sort of "re-boot" to the same idea. Personally I'm hoping that more of that background will be developed in the future.
Personally I just acquired a Squat model (28mm) armed with a plasma gun and what appears to be some sort of shuriken or autopistol or something, then has some heavy bolter-esque ammo clips on his back to use with an Inquisitorial Retinue for my Grey Knights army (I just need to acquire an axe to go with the roman-esque crest for his helmet I acquired so I can have a Space Slayer Squat with plasma gun). In the Inquisition War trilogy the squat used a bolter a lot, though that also could have been availability to the retinue/warband as well. Honestly they seem to have been depicted as a fairly practical race, and I would hazard a guess that they would use whatever was effective and available.
Quote from: Kaled on February 06, 2012, 06:05:42 PM
...squat forces were commonly accompanied by Tech-Priests who were fascinated by the natural technical expertise of the squats and were eager to learn more of their technology...
The difficulty with this (which is pretty close to the squat list IIRC) is that the Imperium has become a far more paranoid and xenophobic place since it was written.
Reading between the lines (with an eye to the current status of abhumans) the AdMech seem more interested in ensuring that these natural technical experts don't go doing anything silly.
Maybe that's an inappropriate read of things but...
As for the Squat Leviathan, why would the Imp Guard bother when they have the Capitol Imperialis ;)
Quote from: InquisitorHeidfeld on February 08, 2012, 04:50:00 PM
Reading between the lines (with an eye to the current status of abhumans) the AdMech seem more interested in ensuring that these natural technical experts don't go doing anything silly.
Abhumans have always had a fairly poor status in the Imperium, even when that was written - however squats were an exception in being treated differently and pretty much the only abhuman type who could rise to positions of authority. So an alternative reading between the lines could say that since the destruction of their home worlds and the consequent breaking of their power as an independent race, the few of these natural technical experts that are remaining may have become even more highly valued by the Mechanicus who are keen to learn from them.
You could argue it either way, and I suspect both attitudes are present in the Mechanicus - maybe varying from Forge World to Forge World or Tech-Priest to Tech-Priest. Since there has been practically no mention of the squats since GW had a Tyranid hive fleet write them out of the fluff I think there's plenty of scope for players to use either point of view (or the one that has them as an almost forgotten race that most people think of as a fairy story, or plenty of other plausible scenarios that people have come up with over the years).
Quote from: InquisitorHeidfeld on February 08, 2012, 04:50:00 PM
As for the Squat Leviathan, why would the Imp Guard bother when they have the Capitol Imperialis ;)
Availability of the former and rarity/exceptionally high demand of the later ;) According to Tactica Imperialis (a Black Library source thingie) there's documented instances in modern fluff and times of the Imperial Guard still using Leviathans. I mention it due to the connections to the Squats.
This squat will probably be from a small homeworld with only a few strongholds. It was far away from the main squat empire.
If I'm not mistaken the squats were more allies of the Imperium than an actual part of it, a bit like the Mechanicus. This would enable them to rise much higher than a ratling and the like, on squat-held planets.
Quote from: Dolnikan on February 08, 2012, 07:39:12 PM
If I'm not mistaken the squats were more allies of the Imperium than an actual part of it, a bit like the Mechanicus. This would enable them to rise much higher than a ratling and the like, on squat-held planets.
The squat home worlds were granted a certain degree of autonomy when they became part of the Imperium. Instead of being controlled by the Administratum, they negotiated a treaty that gave them comparative independence in return for providing the Imperium with troops, minerals and unrestricted access to their technology. They ruled themselves in all internal affairs, but were expected to follow Imperial policy on wider matters. A state of affairs that suited both sides.
So on their home worlds, a squat could rise to any level - but unlike other abhumans they could also join the AdMech, Adeptus Terra, Inquisition etc. As for these days - there's very little in the canon, so you're free to make up whatever you want.
You're not really going to use the supposed fluff that the squat homeworlds have all been destroyed by the tyranids are you?
I know its supposed to be official fluff (although without any inconvenient details), but the entire concept is ridiculous considering such a feat would put the tyranids in the heart of the galaxy.
I would just ignore that part of the fluff and carry on with the squats as a small but still thriving part of the empire.
Of course, people can ignore whichever bits of fluff they want - but if we we're going to ignore all the bits that are ridiculous there's all whole lot more than the demise of the squats to get rid of...
True.
Although I do find the whole Squat thing very strange. If they don't want to make a new Squat army fine. Makes no sense to me, as the desire for the army is undeniably there (or was amongst veteran players), but it's their decision. Just don't try to write them out of the fluff and pretend they never existed.
I prefer it the way that the squats were concentrated near the core but had plenty of worlds away from there. The tyranids thing is a bit strange (or more like absurd) but so is a large part of the background, I prefer to ignore that, after all, the squat homeworlds were a series of powerful fortresses, not something a hive fleet can overrun and then disapear. But then again, there are lots of parts of the background I refer to ignore.
Where ever possible I try not to ignore any fluff completely and try to work in the gaps it leaves us.
The canon says that the tyranids destroyed the squat home worlds - which seems unlikely, but apparently it happened. What gaps does that leave. Well there are later mention of squats in the canon (they weren't written out completely) survivors of the tyranid attack who were integrated into the Imperium, while other survivors were bitter at being abandoned by the Imperium and broke away to be mercenaries etc.
Plus there's a reference to some people believing them to be a mythical race. To me that leaves us with plenty of scope, we have at least two groups whose worlds were destroyed, plus there are likely to be worlds the tyranids didn't reach, squats who were not on their home worlds at the time and so on. They're obviously not a well known powerful faction anymore, but there's still plenty of ways to use them in our games without having to ignore any bits of canon.
Well, since canon is generally written from the Imperium's perspective it wouldn't be stretching belief too far to say that the imperium merely observed a tyranid invasion of the squat homeworlds (as contradictory as that is with the tyranid canon) and presumed them all destroyed. After all, the squats receded from the imperium during the age of Apostacy iirc. So it's not as if they would be under massively close surveilance since they wouldn't really have been too high on the priority list.
The squat home worlds supplied minerals, troops and armoured vehicles to the Imperium well after the Age of Apostasy and I think it's safe to say the Imperium would (eventually) investigate why the tithe was no longer being delivered. Plus the fluff in Citadel Journal accompanying the article on what to do with your squat models now they've been 'written out, is pretty clear about their worlds being devastated and what happened to the survivors. Why ignore all that when it still leaves us plenty of options for including squats in Inquisitor? It even gives opportunity to include them in 40k.
To be honest I don't exactly know what it says, not having that magazine and all that. To me the entire squat race getting eaten by tyranids who just disapear afterwards is one of those overly silly things. I have spoken to the other members of our group and we have concluded that the squat race indeed did lose most of the homeworlds, but we just don;t involve the tyranids, the many other menaces, such as orks and chaos(including of course chaos squats) would be more than capable of such an act with some luck and some strong warlords. When the dust clears those who almost destroyed the squats are badly beaten and fall to infighting like they tend to do.
I ran into Alan Merrett in Bugmans some years ago when I worked for GW (I think we were doing the Storm of Chaos campaign at the time) and we got talking about the Horus Heresy art books, and I remember asking whether they'd be including any xenos artwork (like the Fall of the Eldar), but somewhere along the line we got talking about Squats and their rediscovery during the Great Crusade.
Of course, the reason why Squats were 'removed' from canon is that they (GW) felt that as a race they didn't translate that well into the current direction in which 40k was heading, that they were too wacky and came from a bygone era when 40k was very tongue in cheek (which most of us already know). I actually asked him why a tyranid invasion, and he said that they just needed a way to completely wipe them out, but elaborated in saying that it could just as easily been a massive supernova that scorched the entire stronghold region, exterminatus, viral outbreak or some other catastrophe, and that all the Imperium knew was that one day the Squat homeworlds were found barren and lifeless.
We also talked about the survivors appearing in games such as Inquisitor (the idea of a squad of them as an IG abhuman auxiliary unit was also discussed), but GW wouldn't be doing anything official about them mostly for two reasons; 1) they would need a complete image/background rewrite to fit in with the current ethos/mythos (to distance them from being 'space dwarves' again), and 2) people would want an army of them again (which would take them back to square one).