Trying to Find lore about Genetic Engineering in warhammer but all i find is Space marine? Are gland warrior genetic engineering ?
Is there any Lore on Vat Grown humans other then the Primarchs?
Men of Iron what do you think they look like what size are they, is a converted Dreadknight to big for 54mm?
Could a radical Inquisitor get his hands on Tau AI tech? and or use reprogrammed Tau droids?
Quote from: Nemesis on April 13, 2012, 03:52:51 AM
Trying to Find lore about Genetic Engineering in warhammer but all i find is Space marine? Are gland warrior genetic engineering ?
To an extent, yes. Some Assassins are also suitably "modified" so you could count those, loosely speaking.
QuoteIs there any Lore on Vat Grown humans other then the Primarchs?
Some Storm Troopers, Skitarii and servitors are vat-grown. In fact, a lot of servitors are vat-grown. Debatable whether those guys really count as "human", though.
QuoteMen of Iron what do you think they look like what size are they, is a converted Dreadknight to big for 54mm?
We know too little about them to really judge. By and large, they're the stuff of legend.
QuoteCould a radical Inquisitor get his hands on Tau AI tech? and or use reprogrammed Tau droids?
Sure, if he's crazy/heretical enough, but he'd need to find an equally crazy heretek Magos (likely a very loopy Xenarite) to suitably "modify" the AI tech or drones (not droids, this isn't Star Wars). He's also likely to piss off both the Adeptus Mechanicus and the Tau by doing that (not that the relationship between the Imperium and the Tau Empire is especially cordial), to say nothing for how the rest of the Inquisition would react.
Keep in mind that this Inquisitor would need to be
extremely resourceful in order to pull it off, and that he could arguably mind-cleanse and indoctrinate human beings with less risk and fewer available resources.
Genetic engineering will have happened all over the place, most changes will however be very small. It seems likely that servitor hosts have been engineered to be more efficiently created and on lots of planets little things will have been added in in the dark age of technology, especially resistances to diseases and of course whatever it takes to make ogryn workers. In the present day genetic engineering will hardly ever be done on people because of the holyness of the species. There will however be plenty of magi whose work will border on, or be outright, heretical.
I have no idea what the men of iron would have looked like but I assume that instead of one general appearance they would have been a wide variety of robots.
Tau drone technology could fall into the hands of radicals but as Koval says, it would be much harder to do than to simply create a few more servitors, even when he or she wants something floating, there is anti-grav technology for that.
This inquisitor thought pattern is that he can use the AI of the drones in the Men of Iron seeing as the Men of Iron are not friendly if awoken thus gaining sum sort of control.
The main inquisitor has multiple project going Tau AI, Men of Iron search, genetic engineering to produce warriors for his group.
That is a lot of different fields of research at once, one of them would be enough for several lifetimes of work when the inquisitor focusses on it specifically. The fields are not very closely linked making research even harder for a single person. The AI of the drones would be very hard to transport to the Men of Iron as they have been programmed for entirely different tasks and bodies, as well as the issue of them being engineered by two different species which would result in very serious problems with compatibility.
What are group sizes of inquisitors conclaves and stuff.
Maybe it could be a group.
But maybe the research into Tau AI could give insight into how the dark ages got it done.
Group sizes can vary but it would be hard to find a group of inquisitors with the same interests in such esoteric subjects larger than half a dozen at the very most in an area with lots of inquisitors. The Tau are a relatively minor species, most inquisitors won't even have heard of them yet. And even if there are several inquisitors interested in the same thing, they will still have disagreements about the methods, especially when it involves xeno-tech and the Iron Men.
This kind of research would take people who take a very abnormal stance on technology, after all, it is not seen the way we do, in the Imperium technology is more like some sort of magic, and especially AI's are treated as an arcane subject, not as something that can just be transplanted. Technology works based on the correct rituals, prayers and ointments, not on any rational basis.
I you really want something robotic i your warband there are still the Imperial Robots, they are rare but an inquisitor could get one. It is also possible that an inquisitor found a damaged iron man and decided to try to repair it. It will not be nearly as capable as it once was but still a useful tool.
I was trying to re programme the men of iron because they are self aware AI unlike Tau AI. Could the psychic power machine empathy work on men of iron.
I think that it could work, but it would not be the way I would try to control something like that, it would be very hard and the moment the psyker has a lapse of concentration...
It is not necessary to take Tau artificial intelligence, the Imperium still has its own artificial intelligence, the inquisitor could even try to get an organic brain in there to prevent too much tech-heresy from taking place. It is also possible that his tech priest is from the Legio Cybernetica and using his own programming on the thing.
I think I drop the Tau thing and go with organic brain.
With genetic engineering could it give the human stock nerves of steel an force of will in the sense that there brain configuration is just different or should I do mechanical brain augments eg removal of the fear part of there brain.
I would try to stay away from the complete fearlesness you imply, the best way to achieve that would be by rendering them too stupid to be useful. Engineering someone to be fearless would be immensely hard, surgery would be an easier way. But for gameplay purposes I would not do it. Another complication with making people fearless is that they become very hard to control, you can't force them to do anything anymore while keeping them effective.
Instead of fearless could true grit be engineered
Is this just for fluff what about a lesser form of regeneration while it has no affect in the battle but wounds slowly heal but quicker then others but leaves no scaring. So meaning the character would need postectics till the leg or arm grow back.
A slow kind of regeneration could be engineered in, this would have little to no influence on games but on the background it would have effects. While regenerating a lost limb a character would be outof the running, prosthetics are hard to fit on growing tissue and could disrupt the process. Something which allows or tissue growth like that would need specific triggers to reduce the risk of tumor formation. After all, that is one of the reasons why we don't regenerate, a large part of us is based on preventing unwanted cell growth, this would be harder when there is regeneration.
True grit could be engineered in, essentially all it takes is working on pain, but someone who feels less pain would suffer some serious consequences while growing up. One of the main problems with genetically engineered servants is that it will take a lot of time before they become useful, a human being takes quite a long time to grow up, mostly because of the complex brain structure and all the things they have to learn. Not that this would stop people doing this of course, but should be kept in mind.
Dolnikan going strong with the posts thanks for the input.
Yeah was thinking of vat grown but to what age does the vat grown get too. How would it be raised would females go to the chruch and male somewhere else but if it ment to be secret how would the they be raise by henchmen the trained incombat and everything that the inquisitor needs them to be?
Also regenerate could be stimulated with certain electrical pulse frequency ?
I think that they can be grown to any age, that won't be the problem. The trouble would be in raising them. Servitors are grown to adulthood but the subsequent surgeries prevent such problems, but a child in an adult body could be very hard to contain. Raising them in secret should be doable, a few dedicated henchmen would be enough. The inquisitor could even raise them as normal children, as long as they look normal.
I think that a whole batch would be grown at once, probably being clones of eachother because engineering several different people would only further complicate things. All that needs to be done to create several clones would be to cut up the initial clumps of cells or taking their nuclei out and micro-injecting them into new egg cells where the nucleus has been removed. In the 41st milenium this will not be an exact science and quite a lot would go wrong, not nearly all the fertilized eggs would give a comple, useful servant, many would develop lots of failures, with the failure rate increasing the more changes are made.
Loving your input, I was thinking along the lines of dozens of failed experiments but I was thinking a male and female seeing if there are different affect form the engineering.
All the failures turn into servitors but thinking this would be a problem with the regen stuffing up any implants?
Could the psychic gene come about through mutations of a batch? or would it have to be there form the start.
They look normal well the ones that didnt fail like regen going rampant rumors and extra limbs no servitors just disposed of.
One could work with several lines besides eachother, some will be more succesful than others, some would be entirely terminated because there is too much inherent instability already.
The regeneration could cause problems with implants, but with timely surgery, if the regeneration is not too fast problems can be prevented if you are willing to continually operate. Another option would be to damage the ends of the limbs to such an extent that they cannot regenerate, regeneration could also be made dependent on signal substances, without them there would be no problem.
The psychic gene could get in there somehow, but as it is relatively rare it would be very uncommon to see it develop or already being there.
Now I got to start a back story where should I start
The inquisitor
The experiments
The augments
Thinking that the main inquisitor gets excommunicated they bombard the labs
My main character is one of the vat grown along with others escape but only two stay together.
But my main character gets taking by the black ships
The other goes off
On the black ship my main is scouted by a inquisitor (is this possible) or once onthe black ships there is no leaving? Main character is a latent Psyker thinking?
Comes of blackening stays with this inquisitor till he gets gutted by the deamon weapon he wields
now if she is a henchmen could she take u the badge or does it need to be voted on or something got to go read the lore again
What sort of role will your main character serve?
I think that the being a psyker won't add much to the character, the being modified is already a big thing, also being a psyker would devaluate things. You could have her, along with some of the other survivors trying to continue their parent's work and to take revenge for what was done to them.
It is possible for an inquisitor to take someone from a black ship but most would prefer to take someone who has already been evaluated and sanctioned, it is a lot less trouble that way, untrained psykers are quite a burden to have around.
It is not automatic that a henchman becomes an inquisitor when their master dies, one has to be promoted by three inquisitors, all of them have to back the character.
The labs won't just be bombed, they will afterwards be attacked by storm troopers and the like to wipe out all traces, the inquisition can be very thorough when it comes to killing people they don't like and don't take half measures.
Are wryd powered still classified as psychic and would be picked up black ships?
I was thinking she would meet back up with the others at a lab that was focused on Men of Iron but during a raid by another inquisitor my characters freind is downed but the inquisitor is push back the place his mind into the machine that was prepared for another subject which was lost in the raid.
What strength could she have physically or str stat while not having massive arms realistically in game wise.
It depends on what the wyrd power represents, but when it is psychic in anture the black ships will come for the character, and wyrd is even rarer than normal psychic ability, making chances even lower for it to appear in someone like her.
The mind of her friend could be placed into the machine, but it would lose much of its personality in the process, it is a very traumatic thing after all to be reduced to a brain in a jar.
She could have any strength you think fits with the character, her past and of course what sorts of modifications were made.
Going back to the men of iron and why he wants to control them, I suspect that you're going on Dan Abnett's description of them from a Gaunt's ghosts novel, the name of which escapes me. Bear in mind that whilst they are hostile to those who awaken them, they have been corrupted by chaos, and that it was the self-awareness of the men of iron that lead to war. I imagine that a man of iron would act like a normal human, and war only broke out when the Imperium decided that it needed to subjugate them, much like many human enclaves did when the time came to be subsumed into the imperium. That the men of Iron were much more difficult to subjugate was merely a part of why they were outlawed.
On appearance, I woudl way that they would look somehthing like a human-sized necron, without the elongated skull, or the glowig green weapons. They would probably look a bit like the terminator, sans teeth, and most would have been made in the image of either their creator, or whatever the "ideal" human was at the time.
I like the idea of transplanting an organic brain into one, as well as trying to genetically engineer "superior" beings. I would say that studying the dark eldar haemonclii would be an appropriate way to go about this, as they are masters of the subject. I would say that if they had a fast regeneration built-in, it would increase the risk of cancers and tumours, wheras a mass effect asari-like regeneration would mean that they are no less prone to damage than other humans, but live much longer.
For the true grit part, I would say that the ability is more to do with refusal to give up, and the ability to fight through pain and injury to get back on one's feet and to keep fighting, rather than to not feel pain.
As for mechanical brain implants, there are tech-priests who have managed to remove their emotions, and view the world through an entirely logical (or so they think) filter, making them superior beings, as the flesh is weak, and the machine is incapable of error.
As an additional, there are reports of people with leprosy who have lost all feeling in their arms taking trays directly out of the oven with their bare hands, and causing massive tissue damage without realising it. A person who doesn't feel pain would have this problem, especially on the battlefield, where missing limbs and suchlike would be ignored (black knight), meaning that a person could bleed to death without realising it. I would also suggest that the abilities unstoppable and just a flesh wound would represent this fairy well, so for a vat-grown construct built not to feel pain these rules would seem appropriate, wheras for a fighter who never gives up, no matter how many times they have had their body rent and torn, true grit is perfect. It would also say that true grit would be good for a standard man of iron, as presumably their control protocols instruct them to fight to the last.
There was a comic featuring a Man of Iron, available in one of the collections that Warhammer Monthy/Inferno released. This one was about Arbitrators shutting down a banned Mechanicus dig. The Man of Iron (just one) was an AI complex, a very large machine, with a wide variety of drone servants, larger than humans, using chainblade weapons and for some reason with animal-skull heads.
Quote from: Nemesis on April 13, 2012, 12:16:40 PM
Now I got to start a back story where should I start
The inquisitor
The experiments
The augments
Thinking that the main inquisitor gets excommunicated they bombard the labs
Too many people start off with radical/excommunicated types, to the point where it's rare to see it done well. I'd stay away from this.
QuoteMy main character is one of the vat grown along with others escape but only two stay together.
You're assuming this vat-grown character is A) intelligent B) healthy. Your character's never used her muscles before, for example, or really learned anything. At best, you'd end up with someone that doesn't know how or why they know things -- to say nothing for understanding the reasons why they're being attacked.
QuoteBut my main character gets taking by the black ships
More likely she'd be killed.
QuoteThe other goes off
More likely this one would be killed as well...
QuoteOn the black ship my main is scouted by a inquisitor (is this possible)
Very very unlikely, because I doubt Inquisitors want to deal with the stigma of employing unsanctioned psykers. This is actually why, if they find one of their acolytes is a latent psyker, they pack them off to Terra specifically to be sanctioned.
QuoteComes of blackening stays with this inquisitor till he gets gutted by the deamon weapon he wields
Another daemon weapon popping up out of the blue to kill its owner. We call this a Diabolus Ex Nihilo (http://tvtropes.org/pmwiki/pmwiki.php/Main/DiabolusExNihilo). It doesn't add anything to your plot -- you could just say your Inquisitor was killed off by a rival.
Quotenow if she is a henchmen could she take u the badge or does it need to be voted on or something got to go read the lore again
Deathbed promotions are boring, and just taking up your master's mantle after he gets killed off is just unfeasible. Especially when he's enough of a heretic to be lugging that daemon weapon around and espousing the return of the Iron Men. To answer your question, your character would need to be approved by rather a lot of existing Inquisitors, else passed on to someone else that can continue to train her, but under the present circumstances it's more likely she'd be executed.
QuoteAre wryd powered still classified as psychic and would be picked up black ships?
Yes, very much so. Wyrds are like Harry Potter making things happen without knowing how or why. They can just "do things" that are as natural to them as breathing, but over which they have as little control as they do over their heart rates. If they're not picked up by the Black Ships they'd be killed off by superstitious locals that want to burn witches.
Quote
I was thinking she would meet back up with the others at a lab that was focused on Men of Iron
Such labs would be very difficult for even Inquisitors to find. Your character would have to be more resourceful than a lot of Inquisitors to find this place, assuming it even exists.
Quotebut during a raid by another inquisitor my characters freind is downed but the inquisitor is push back
Again, Inquisitors are too resourceful for that -- if they're raiding a heretek lab then they're going to have rather a lot more at their disposal than you could "push back".
Quotethe place his mind into the machine that was prepared for another subject which was lost in the raid.
Iron Men don't revolve around biotransference. They're AIs. You're confusing them with new Necrons.
Quote
What strength could she have physically or str stat while not having massive arms realistically in game wise.
As much or as little as makes sense in context.
Quote from: Draco Feroxwheras a mass effect asari-like regeneration would mean that they are no less prone to damage than other humans, but live much longer.
You're thinking of krogan and vorcha, methinks.
I think that transplanting a brain into an iron man is possible with a lot(meaning a lot) of rebuilding in the head, or wherever the main programming was done. This would still be very troublesome and burn through a lot of test subjects but it is within the realm of possiblility when you have some very good tech priests working on it. They are AI's yes, but the AI is only a part of it, it is what drives the body, not the body itself. Basically the Iron Man is reduced to an empty shell, which it will have to be to be found, there would be a lot of damage. Then, using MIU's to connect to the motor units a brain can be placed inside the thing.
OT: How is it possible that as soon as I write anything about Iron Men that I get a song stuck in my head?
The inquisitor knows of the corruption of the Men of Iron but with the Idea of rewrite the AI with Tau or organic brain. he doesn't need the other Men of Iron he needs the warriors Men of Iron that conquered the galaxy in the time of the Dark Age. I think the servants and other Men of Iron used for labor task would be different to one used for Thought processes and others used for conquest.
With the Wyrd power I was thinking that the character is trying to open the cell door and it won't budge so she starts to panic and it starts to give but this could be changed to the Engineering giving higher then average str
QuoteYou're assuming this vat-grown character is A) intelligent B) healthy. Your character's never used her muscles before, for example, or really learned anything. At best, you'd end up with someone that doesn't know how or why they know things -- to say nothing for understanding the reasons why they're being attacked.
The character been out of the Vat for some time training under Henchmen and the Inquisitor.
And if the psychic story taken away she doesn't meet the second Inquisitor the one with the daemon weapon ( servant Bound, Demonbane) don't know how daemon weapons would work but it kills the other inquisitor so it could be wielded by my character?
the Men of Iron Lab only has one in there studying it and its a relic damage getting repair and probably modified before arriving.
The inquisitor might be pushed back if he was expecting a abandoned lab?
I'm afraid that even with greatly enhanced strength pushing open a cell door would be immensely hard. Cell doors are designed to take a lot of punishment before they give in, especially when there is genetic engineering of any kind involved, you don't want your test subjects to escape.
There is hardly anything known about the Men of Iron, but they will probably be a broad range of robots, with the problem of their AI being a bit too good. Replacing the AI would make them far less useful but still a nice tool. One of the main issues with trying to use them in large numbers would be that the Mechanicus lacks the ability to make them. They can build the Imperial Robots but nothing like the old Men of Iron, which were the height of human technology.
The character could still meet with another inquisitor somehow, perhaps even an old ally of her first master. I would just leave out the daemon weapons and have her recruited after a while as a mercenary because of her great skills due to the enhancements.
There is no need for the second attack on the lab, the inquisitor could also take someone she takes a liking to to put in there.
Quote
QuoteYou're assuming this vat-grown character is A) intelligent B) healthy. Your character's never used her muscles before, for example, or really learned anything. At best, you'd end up with someone that doesn't know how or why they know things -- to say nothing for understanding the reasons why they're being attacked.
The character been out of the Vat for some time training under Henchmen and the Inquisitor.
This was not made clear.
QuoteAnd if the psychic story taken away she doesn't meet the second Inquisitor the one with the daemon weapon ( servant Bound, Demonbane) don't know how daemon weapons would work but it kills the other inquisitor so it could be wielded by my character?
Your character would not have a daemon weapon. They're incredibly difficult and incredibly heretical to make, and there's no guarantee that you'd survive its creation (seeing as it requires, y'know,
binding a very angry daemon inside an inanimate object).
Quotethe Men of Iron Lab only has one in there studying it and its a relic damage getting repair and probably modified before arriving.
Either it's a very heavily fortified Mechanicus vault, or it's a very well-hidden heretic stronghold. Nothing else would really do this Iron Man any justice, and in any case the likelihood of your character finding that is very slim indeed.
QuoteThe inquisitor might be pushed back if he was expecting a abandoned lab?
If he was expecting an abandoned lab then I'm sorry, but that's a prize idiot, not an Inquisitor.
I've just read through this thread, and I think the real problem is not with the individual ideas, but with the combination. It's got genetic modification, cloning, reprogrammed xeno-tech, brain transplants, psykers, wyrds, daemon weapons, death-bed promotions, and 20,000 year old robot soldiers. It's far too much. It seems like there's enough ideas there for a whole load of Inquisitor warbands. I would suggest just focussing in on a couple of aspects and save the others for future projects. With them all it's never going to be believable.
Why not build your warband around a tech-priest who has studied Tau drone technology and an Inquisitor who believes that the tech-priests research can be used to create a force of robotic soldiers similar to the Iron Men of legend. So far they have various test subjects - maybe a servitor whose brain has (partially) been replaced by Tau drone tech, or a largely mechanical body that still has a human brain. And as this is the 41st millenium, and you want them to be playable in the game, the experiments should be failures that don't work all that well, but the tech-priest and inquisitor are using them as guards as they search our more knowledge to perfect their creations.
QuoteEither it's a very heavily fortified Mechanicus vault, or it's a very well-hidden heretic stronghold. Nothing else would really do this Iron Man any justice, and in any case the likelihood of your character finding that is very slim indeed.
The Inquisitor/cell might have multiple bases one is focused on Genetics the other is focused on Men of Iron
Men of Iron might of been found then moved to the lab.
Yeah probably the Inquisitor is Gleaming that he finally killed his rival and wanting to get the spoils for him self e.g prize idiot
QuoteI've just read through this thread, and I think the real problem is not with the individual ideas, but with the combination. It's got genetic modification, cloning, reprogrammed xeno-tech, brain transplants, psykers, wyrds, daemon weapons, death-bed promotions, and 20,000 year old robot soldiers. It's far too much. It seems like there's enough ideas there for a whole load of Inquisitor warbands. I would suggest just focussing in on a couple of aspects and save the others for future projects. With them all it's never going to be believable.
Why not build your warband around a tech-priest who has studied Tau drone technology and an Inquisitor who believes that the tech-priests research can be used to create a force of robotic soldiers similar to the Iron Men of legend. So far they have various test subjects - maybe a servitor whose brain has (partially) been replaced by Tau drone tech, or a largely mechanical body that still has a human brain. And as this is the 41st millenium, and you want them to be playable in the game, the experiments should be failures that don't work all that well, but the tech-priest and inquisitor are using them as guards as they search our more knowledge to perfect their creations.
yeah It started with just ideas but now there is no more Tau Xeno Tech, no Daemon Weapon, no more psychic powers and no more death-bed promotions(i was thinking more of the badge being used but if found out she be hunted)
So I'm focusing on Genetic Engineering which involves cloning to get results the Brain transfer is to get the Men of Iron under Control I can't MIU it, No psychic power so no Machine Empathy no reprogramme AI so Organic Brain.
Trying to engineer someone to better control the Iron Man would be possible, but hard to achieve, after all, they have no idea about the kind of modifications they should make, there are no genes they already know to be responsible so it would be the culmination of many, many years of secret research. The modifications would then only focus on a few things, and nothing like regeneration, only ways to make the brain grow by itself and to grow faster to allow for more tests.
sorry I'm on Iphone not good for grammar
There are two paths this Cell is taking the one of Genetics and the other of Machine they not linked. sorry for the confusion
The genetics is focus on producing a force for theses Inquisitor of the best henchmen / soldiers needed for there plans.
The Machine (Men of Iron) is focus on the Dark Ages on how the humans spread across the stars with the help of the Men of Iron, The Cell thinking is with this Relic they can learn form it and prepare when they find a Ancient Dark Ages Stasis bunker holding theses marvel of the Dark Ages and try different things going in the way of Organic brains using servitors in a sense.
The Main character Comes for the Genetics Lab thinking around theses stats (i will focus on number like 62 67 73 and such)
Ws Bs Strength Toughness Initiative Willpower Sagacity Nerve Leadership
45 50 65 60 60 60 60 70 35
But i got to go be back online laters
Regarding the idea focusing on genetic engineering, why not have your warband led by a Magos Biologis rather than an Inquisitor?
As for the Iron Man - rather than have someone find an intact Iron Man that is still in a salvageable state after 20,000 years, you could have your character/cell collect bits of archaeotech - some of which are thought to be parts from one of the legendary Iron Men, others are just bits of dark age junk. He/they collect these parts from hundreds of sites across many worlds, buys others from Rogue Traders, get some off the black market etc. Their eventual aim being to gather enough to create their own Iron Men. Something like that just seems more believable, and more fitting for games of Inquisitor, than having someone find a lab full of them.
Two separate research lines like that would be hard to manage, one of them is already a big deal, two at the same time is immensely difficult to pull off. It is possible that hundreds of years ago, one of the Iron Men was found, only in a badly damaged state, perhaps in a space hulk or the like, ever since they have been trying to get it to work.
Quote from: Kaled on April 13, 2012, 02:48:14 PM
You could have your character/cell collect bits of archaeotech - some of which are thought to be parts from one of the legendary Iron Men, others are just bits of dark age junk.
But you character doesn't realise that they're just dark-age junk, and tries them anyway, leading to some interesting consequences (read: horrendous failiures). This, combined with a servitor's propensity for not stopping untill completely dismembered, could prove to be a fairly interesting obstacle for all parties involved.
I would think that anyone studying tau technology would be branded a heretek and excommuniacted, as Imperial technology is obviously superior.
EDIT: And it
was the asari, Koval, unless the continuity has been changed. They are described as having very robust genetic makeup which allows them to live for long periods of time, the oldest reaching over 1000, whilst not actually being any more resistant to damage.
QuoteEDIT: And it was the asari, Koval, unless the continuity has been changed. They are described as having very robust genetic makeup which allows them to live for long periods of time, the oldest reaching over 1000, whilst not actually being any more resistant to damage.
Well, you mentioned regeneration, which is why I brought up krogan and vorcha. Granted, there's probably more to it than that, but that's the bit I was getting hung up on. I've never noticed asari being noted for their regenerative capabilties.
This may already have been said - This thread has exploded into being far faster than I can keep up with ATM so if so, my apologies.
Why bother with the Men of Iron?
They were a Dark Age robotic soldier but their Abominable intelligence is what makes them special and it's precisely that which you intend to remove.
The Cortex-based robots of the Legio Cybernetica are almost certainly able to do everything that a lobotomised Man of Iron could, their abaptability to changing battlefield situations is their biggest flaw and one Men of Iron avoid by dint of their very intelligence. Moreover the Cortex-based Robots can be built in innumerable specialised chassis formats, many of the most famous being designed to bring multiple heavy weapons to bear and therefore providing more significant firepower than the (from the descriptions) almost man-sized Men of Iron.
A couple of weeks ago it might have been said that the Legio Cybernetica were outdated fluff and should be ignored but given the appearance of Traitor Legio Cybernetica technology in Forge World's previews I for one welcome the return of our flow chart driven robotic overlords ;)
The two paths could be the result of an alliance between a pair of factions.
For instance, an AdMech cell/cult with an incomplete or damaged man of iron might hope to use/develop it to build a vessel for the Omnissiah. As part of their method they are growing clones of a princeps, intending to bung one chosen brain case atop the man of iron with an MIU.
An inquisitor finds this secretive cabal but rather than out them to the wider mechanicus, he/she decides that they're far enough from their goal to be containable and sets the price of his/her silence at a unit/platoon/army of gene-crafted soldiers.
Myself I'd go with a planetary governor (or the jealous relative of one) in place of an inquisitor but I don't know what else you have planned for the warband.
The two key things I interpret from the stats you've given us is that the main character is very well educated but pretty ill-disciplined.
The high Sagacity suggests to me that he came out of the vat as an infant and has been educated as normal. Otherwise he's received a good number of meme-chips, each one of which is probably more valuable to the admech than a dozen clones.
The low Leadership seems odd for the main/lead character of a warband, unless your intention is that the others follow him for back-story reasons in spite of his poor command style.
In your place, I'd be tempted to switch Sg and Ld and consider adding an intellectual character to the band. I'd also tweak Toughness up a notch or two to represent that accellerated healing you were talking about and offset it with a drop in Willpower - in my view, knowing that you're a clone has got to mess with your sense of self, leaving you more vulnerable to psychic influence.
Beyond the Legio Cybernetica, a few thoughts...
It's very easy to denigrate the technology of the Imperium given the pseudo-monastic shape of much of society but it is unjustified. The Adeptus Mechanicus elite are known as Magi for a reason after all, and they can do things with the technology they understand which would render the most brilliant Tau Earth Caste mute with admiration - If the Magos deems that doing so would bring glory to the Omnissiah he can, for example, build a conversion field, power cells included, into the gemstone of a woman's signet ring, he can, if it glorifies the Omnisiah, take all of the rules we currently apply to the physical world and make them dance, he can forge moonbeams and count the angels which dance on the head of a pin.
To add to that, consider what we call the Dark Ages, it's hardly a time period we'd want to book a little vacation in. The images we have are of people living (and dying) in their own filth, a time of primatives and barbarians, a time where if you were lucky you'd start work as soon as you could walk and die in harness at thirty...
The Dark Age of Technology is not called a Dark Age because it was a time of brilliant advances, of universal illumination, of wonderous technologies which made people's lives better. To go in search of Dark Age Technologies is not something a sane person would do, it's the equivalent of knocking all you own teeth out and building yourself a mud hut in the Scottish Highlands.
So the question becomes:
What or whom led this vat grown creature to determine that a cache of antique tooth pliers and prime building dung were a suitable focus for his life's work?
The Dark Age of Technology certainly wasn't all good, especially towards the end as humanity moved into the Age of Strife, but it was still a highpoint of scientific achievement, a time of seemingly unstoppable progress when it seemed there was nothing that mankind could not do. It was an age of expansion and plenty - a golden age for scienfic achievement.
It would be called the Golden Age of Technology in that case.
What is remembered of the Dark Age of Technology is Humanity enslaved to technology IIRC - yes it was a period of high scientific advance but the simple fact that it is remembered as a Dark Age; an age, not of enlightenment but of suffering is key here.
Perhaps were you or I to live through the DAoT we might wonder at what had occurred, what had been invented, what technology had achieved. But we would similarly marvel at the exploits of the Adeptus Mechanicus, marvel as they took familiar metals and alloyed them into Adamantium in zero-g conditions, marvel as they built devices with no concern for the constraints of the necessary internal components but an eye only to the final aesthetic of the piece. And you or I would of course not be considered sane in the 41st Millenium - perhaps we'd get away with being seen as backwards, more than a touch rural but certainly not normal and sane.
The point is that the entire Imperium views the DAoT as the general populous regards the ancient history of Europe, why would any one part of the Imperium start to think differently?
Certain parts of the Mechanicus want to know how their forebears accomplished their ends and it might make sense for them to go hunting for a Dark Age Stasis chamber in the way Archeologists like to dig up Bronze Age villages but the character in question has no apparent connection to such groups - and they're hardly public knowledge...
Someone however has put into this character's mind a belief that DAoT tech is a proper quest for an individual's lifespan, that such tech is far superior to what is produced by the AdMech (and I wouldn't be so sure given that Thunder Armour seems to have been the best the DAoT came up with in terms of Personal Protection).
Against everything which is "known" by the Imperium there's very little means for developing such a view, particularly not alone; unless he found a cache of old "Star-Trek"-esque recordings and took them for historical documentary...
The rest of the Imperium, after all, have good reason for believing that the Dark Age of Technology was bad, there are many worlds after all which were rediscovered after the Age of Strife and the Isolation of Terra which had survived at least virtually unscathed. If they believe it was a Dark Age then who are those coloured by the Age of Strife to argue?
It's not known as a Dark Age because it was a time of suffering for humanity, but because so little is known of it - in much the same way the middle ages in Europe were known as the Dark Ages due to the lack of historical records compared to the earlier and later times.
It seems like you are conflating the Dark Age of Technology with the Age of Strife. All of the things I said about the Dark Age of Technology are pretty much direct quotes from sources ranging from Rogue Trader to the latest 40k rulebook. In some places it is referred to as being a golden age for mankind.
As for how it is viewed by the Imperium, well that may be different - especially due to the decline of humanity that occurred during the Age of Strife. Imperial citizens are taught that the Emperor came and reunited humanity and ushered in a new golden age and saved them from the darkness that had gone before - they will know nothing of what had come before. Of course, the kinds of characters we're talking about will have access to a lot more knowledge and may well know stories of the marvels that of technology possessed by humanity during the DAoT. We already know that the AdMech expend considerable resources to gather scraps of knowledge from that time - for example STC printouts are priceless relics and every rumour of a functioning STC system is followed up by the AdMech as it would be a prize beyond compare.
(As for Thunder Armour - that came long after the Dark Age of Technology, and after the seven millennia of darkness that was the Age of Strife. It may have been the best personal protection that could be produced at the time, but by then human technology had fallen a long way from the peak it reached during the Dark Age of Technology.)
It was, to all intents and purposes, the same armour as every other barbarian warlord on Terra equipped his troops with, it was (if I'm remembering the history of Power Armour correctly) a relic.
But it isn't what we know about these things but what a character knows which is important.
We primarily see the Imperium through the eyes of the military because "In the grim darkness of the far future there is only war" but Inquisitor generally deals in a more civil realm. The AdMech may send explorator fleets out across former human colonies in search of lost tech but 99.9....9% of the Imperium's citizenry will know nothing about it. The primary references to anyone outside the Mechanicus knowing what they're really looking for seem to be the Tanith - and that's hardly a solid source for fluff. (I recall references in the article which introduced the Razorback which implied that it was "one mars had had all along" - suggesting that the 'party line' was that this type of development was a case of filing rather than discovery).
When the perceptions of a character deviate from the perceptions of society by such a degree it deserves a little explanation. As with all cliches it can work very well if there's a consistency and a believable reason behind it.
Currently there is no reason for it - the Cortex-Robots of the Legio Cybernetica and the technological wizardry of the AdMech have no apparent detractors and therefore the character's goals do not seem sane.
Quote from: InquisitorHeidfeld on April 13, 2012, 09:17:51 PM
It was, to all intents and purposes, the same armour as every other barbarian warlord on Terra equipped his troops with, it was (if I'm remembering the history of Power Armour correctly) a relic.
Yes, pretty much the same as the other barbarian warlords had at the end of the Age of Strife - nothing like as advanced as the technology mankind had at its disposal at the peak of the Dark Age of Technology.
QuoteBut it isn't what we know about these things but what a character knows which is important.
I agree, but since learned scholars of the Imperium have gathered together knowledge of the Dark Age of Technology, and we are talking here about about characters who would have access to that knowledge, then I don't see that the characters goals don't seem sane. An Inquisitor or Magos could have knowledge of the marvels of Dark Age technology that have led him to conclude that mankind once knew of greater technological wizardry than that employed by the Legio Cybernetica. Hence his quest to discover and harness that knowledge.
Quote from: InquisitorHeidfeld on April 13, 2012, 07:02:52 PM
It would be called the Golden Age of Technology in that case.
It is. Repeatedly. The Mechanicus often call it the Golden Age, and the Emperor was thought to be returning Mankind to the Golden Age, hence he was acclaimed as the Omnissiah. It's the Dark Age because it is mysterious, and because it involved an abandonment of human willpower in favour of machines. The Hob storyline in Dresden Codak (this (http://dresdencodak.com/2007/09/21/metropolis/) is a particularly useful page) describes what human chauvinists (which the Imperium clearly is) might think of even benevolent AI, and the end of the Golden Age was partly a machine rebellion. The Golden Age is also called a Dark Age because what became curses in the Age of Strife were mostly things developed in the Age of Technology - Psykers and Machines. It created a utopia that, when it fell, became a nightmare.
Back online. Nice a full page to read
Ws Bs Strength Toughness Initiative Willpower Sagacity Nerve Leadership
47 56 67 77 61 43 66 68 41
True Grit, Heroic
http://shop.kingdomdeath.com/product/54mm-twilight-knight-pinup is the model I'm going to convert.
http://www.coolminiornot.com/shop/miniatures/yedharo-models/virgo-54mm.html here is another model i like to convert
http://www.rpgshop.com/miniatures/undead-en/vampires/monique-de-noir-vampire-54mm.html another
The Model I'm planing to use for a Iron Men is a Converted Dreadknight bringing up another question; how do you make Machine Stats?
I should say that the Yedharo Virgo is by far the tallest model I've ever seen listed as 54mm scale. She's actually about 66-67 mm tall including the high heels. Here, have a comparison of her alongside Sgt Stone (http://i772.photobucket.com/albums/yy3/MarcoSkoll/Inquisitor%20Models/WIP%20Models/CIMG3119.jpg) (and less relevantly, the tallest of my scratchbuilds).
This is alright for me, as I generously vary the height of my sculpts and she's therefore not actually that out of place in my collection, but I know there's some people who find her just too tall. So, Caveat Emptor.
Could be a result oh the engineering. but what real life height would that be? thinking she looks like high 6's to 7ft
On vat grown; if everyone she knows other then the trainers and tech priests are vat grown I wouldn't think it be that mentally shocking and even then the trainers and tech priests could just say they were also vat grown because they live in a closed system.
Well, taking off the heels, and working by 1/32 scale, a bit over two metres - about 6' 7"- 6' 8". The heels are pretty huge and round that up to a full seven feet.
Yes, it could be the result of genetic engineering, but I can't quite see a good reason for her to be 15" taller than the female average that works here.
When I finally get around to working on mine, I'll probably have her as an Inquisitrix who had her height increased for reasons of impact and intimidation - but in your case, would someone who's working on all kinds of illicit stuff (and presumably wants to keep said work at least somewhat secret) really want to draw attention to herself by standing a foot above everyone else?
she looks human but really tall. The Lab/research is secret but them in public they would only attract attention as being tall not as experiments. Could see a problem in convert stuff being so tall, but the benefactor needs soldiers maybe he wanted height so they can be intimidating?
Plus I would remove the heels.
Quote from: Nemesis on April 14, 2012, 02:40:49 AMbut the benefactor needs soldiers maybe he wanted height so they can be intimidating?
She's not exactly got the build of a customised soldier. You'd go for men built like the proverbial. Although, I do have to admit I have a genengineered lady soldier in my own collection, but she's more solidly built and I did rather have to fish around for reasons why she wasn't a he.
I'm not sure the reason I used would work for you, but I had worked on other ideas...
- I don't think the Decree Passive works here, as I can't see them having involvement with the Ecclesiarchy.
- Nor does the High Imperial law argument. (Only High Lords are allowed to order the creation of a Space Marine chapter. So, if you were cooking up some super soldiers, there's some argument in making them female to avoid being accused of breaching that law.) But she's not super-soldiery enough for that.
- Then there's the simple one. Sex appeal. There's got to be some perverted nobles out there who want a squad of statuesque ladies as their bodyguards. But I forget who your benefactor is, so I'm not sure if this works.
As for taking the heels off a model... that's something to be careful of. I tend to try and avoid doing this, as it's a bit of a pig to get it to look good. Mind you, that could just be me - feet are something I don't like drawing/modelling in general.
Don't let me put you off her though. I totally agree that she's a lovely model, but I do think her size and build heavily narrow down the field of characters she can believably represent.
Ha like the perverted noble maybe wanting his whole bodyguard to be women.
How much funds would this project cost could it be an undertaking of a civilized world which the governor falls short of his tithes and thinking what could the remecations of the administration dealing with a governor not making his tithes would he get investigated frist or something else?
Meaning he's putting all his funds into this project but if there is too much funds could a noble have to funds or would it just bankrupt multiple nobles?
Could parts of a men of iron or archeotech be found in a underhive being worshipped by a cult?
I be reading about 40k robot and about the master / slave set up could a advanced brain be able to handle being a master with the ability of the human MADD to make decisions without the need of bio-cards?
Marco - I can think of a couple other reasons. One might be that the original DNA source was from a world where height is prized in some way, and so the average height is significantly greater, or another is that the modification wasn't supposed to make her tall, its just a by-product.
There is lots of variety in height on earth alone, that is just one planet, on a million worlds all kinds of sizes could be found, rangeing from the enormous to the really small. 2m tall bodies can easily be sustained here on earth, I know several women who are just ten cm short of that height and they suffer no problems whatsoever.
The amount of funds the project would take depends on several factors, one of these is what sort of people are employed to do it and how much is to be done. A proper project led by a large staff would be impossible to hide while a small group of people recruited in secret working on small modifications would be a lot cheaper.
Quote from: DapperAnarchist on April 14, 2012, 01:17:02 PMMarco - I can think of a couple other reasons.
Neither of those explains why you'd choose to make a svelte female soldier, which was the main concern in what I was on about.
Quote from: Dolnikan on April 14, 2012, 01:44:54 PMOn a million worlds all kinds of sizes could be found, ranging from the enormous to the really small.
Yes, but the wide variation of human size tends to be, for the most part, compressed into a variation of only few mm from average on models. I'm two heads taller than some girls I know, but it's rare to see that variation in player's collections.
As such, when you take a model 12-13mm taller than average, it'll look far more exaggerated a size than the physically plausible "seven feet in heels" might sound.
It works in my collection, as I do build in these height variations (with models between 48-62mm*), but I know she doesn't work for a lot of people (including kierkegaard, who I got the model from in the first place) - which is why I brought up the warning.
*I've already told you lot that it's Marco who's the 62mm. But can you guess who's the 48mm?
Quote from: MarcoSkoll on April 14, 2012, 04:08:34 PM
*I've already told you lot that it's Marco who's the 62mm. But can you guess who's the 48mm?
Giovanna? I don't remember you ever describing her as especially tall...
When genetically modifying someone you will often want to eliminate as many problems as possible. Male hormones might lead to higher strength and greater size but testosterone also has some nasty side-effects on behaviour, giving more aggression, which for some roles might be good but control can also be a big issue. There also is the Y chromosome which can make things more complicated.
When actually vat-growing someone gender will be little issue, for instance, on the in character boards one of the characters I'm currently using, Iota Tettares, is a genetically modified vat-grown test subject. She is female, although she lacks many of the usual things in female super soldiers made up by players such as oversized secondary sexual organs which tend to be something a perverted governor would certainly put in. The female gender is more of a biological norm, with the male gender as a deviancy. This is why she is female, but she could also be described as sexless.
Those models look like what a someone who considers the physical appearance to be an import part of his or her bodyguard would design..
Quote from: MarcoSkoll on April 14, 2012, 05:47:20 AM- Nor does the High Imperial law argument. (Only High Lords are allowed to order the creation of a Space Marine chapter. So, if you were cooking up some super soldiers, there's some argument in making them female to avoid being accused of breaching that law.) But she's not super-soldiery enough for that.
Only the Emperor himself can approve the founding of a new chapter. At least according to the data I have... Now whether you assume that the Emperor is actually approving things or that he's incapable (or just having his rule subjourned) and the High Lords are doing it on his behalf is entirely up to you.
Quote from: InquisitorHeidfeld on April 14, 2012, 06:06:39 PM
Quote from: MarcoSkoll on April 14, 2012, 05:47:20 AM- Nor does the High Imperial law argument. (Only High Lords are allowed to order the creation of a Space Marine chapter. So, if you were cooking up some super soldiers, there's some argument in making them female to avoid being accused of breaching that law.) But she's not super-soldiery enough for that.
Only the Emperor himself can approve the founding of a new chapter. At least according to the data I have... Now whether you assume that the Emperor is actually approving things or that he's incapable (or just having his rule subjourned) and the High Lords are doing it on his behalf is entirely up to you.
Index Astartes states rather explicitly that the High Lords authorise Foundings on the Emperor's behalf (it's in the Rites Of Initiation article, under "Founding new Chapters", in WD 247 and the first Index Astartes book). Additionally, the old 3.5ED Codex: Chaos Space Marines states that the Astral Claws' creation was approved by the High Lords. I'm fairly sure that suggests the latter option.
This is moving off-topic, but I love Imperial legal theory (does that make a super-nerd? Probably). The High Lords are effectively the Emperor, for legal purposes, as, interestingly, are Inquisitors. They have the same legal power as the Emperor, though obviously not His political or personal power. So, yes, that could mean an Inquisitor could attempt to found a Chapter, but exerting the political will over either the Administratum, the Mechanicus, or the Chapters that would be required to do that would be beyond most. The High Lords as a group have more political power than any other group in the Imperium, and so are the ultimate arbiters of large-scale Imperial action, such as founding a new Chapter.
Technically inquisitors can indeed authorize the founding of a new chapter because they speak with the Emperor's voice. They are however much more likely to be stopped by other parties, such as other inquisitors. The high lords have the advantage in that regard that they have amongst them leaders of organizations that will be necessary for a founding, most prominently the mechanicus.
But to get closer to the topic, the high lord argument is meaningless in the case of genetic modifications, there one would only run into problems with the church and the mechanicus who will probably frown on all non-sanctioned modifications. The church will be likely to condemn all such things outright.
Someone earlier in the Thread said WS50 and BS50 was undertrained but i was just reading the front page and in said a trained soldier is 50, What should be the stat of WS and BS if you been trianed since 9 years of age till (what age does Virgo model look like 24-28?) but keep in mind she also has to study to get Sg to 66. (Calculus Logi Upgrade?)
The Melee Training and Gun training would be form henchmen (Veteran Guardsmen maybe Arch-militant)
Sg is form Magos biologist till 20 then she is transferred to the Legos Cybernetic (If at all possible?) someone said there might be two factions on the same planet. I was thinking not have an actual Men of Iron but like a video/picture recording and the Legos Cybernetica is trying to recreate the superior model as a robot? and this recording is found in a undercity so they just set up base there as the recording can't be moved. Transfer happens when Legos Cybernetica is close to completion but the local (food riots or gang wars) are getting heated so to get some field testing happen the benefactor sends in the successful experiments?
I was thinking she would have low leadership because the successful men were given officer training while the women were trained in proper etiquette. Also while she got along with the legos Cybernectic and there robots meaning in here future years she more focus on robot then human which says that either her leadership potential never been tested or that she Finds Robots just easy to command. But in saying so is leadership required for tactics and strategy because she does know how to use the robots.
@Koval: Giovanna is about average. The answer is Lady Riemann, although some impressive heels and a very big hat disguise this somewhat.
Quote from: Dolnikan on April 14, 2012, 04:53:22 PMWhen genetically modifying someone you will often want to eliminate as many problems as possible.
Most genetically engineered individuals in the canon are male. Stormtroopers (although not all of them, of course), Servitors, Space Marines (although they're really more surgical chimeras, but genetics does enter into it), the Primarchs, etc...
So I imagine Imperial science has overcome most of the complications the Y chromosome has and brings with it (or at least deems them an acceptable risk).
Quote from: InquisitorHeidfeld on April 14, 2012, 06:06:39 PMOnly the Emperor himself can approve the founding of a new chapter.
The concept of Chapters didn't exist until after the Emperor was interred into the Golden Throne, so it would be odd if it was ever decreed that the High Lords couldn't make the decision in his name.
Quote from: Dolnikan on April 14, 2012, 09:47:49 PMBut to get closer to the topic, the high lord argument is meaningless in the case of genetic modifications
Perhaps, but I originally cooked it up as an answer to yet another "female Space Marines" topic on a different forum.
The short version is "Only the High Lords can order a Space Marine chapter, and given that they don't think female Marines would work, why would they even try to breach tradition? But the Imperium does have other ways to produce super-soldiers, and there might be a shout for making those female to make what you're doing seem a bit more above board."
I've actually slowly been working on some more specifics and may eventually model a 54mm lady not-marine. Weird, no doubt, but many of my characters are entirely tongue-in-cheek.
Quote from: Nemesis on April 15, 2012, 01:06:10 AMI was just reading the front page and it said a trained soldier is 50
In general, a stat of 50 represents competence in an area, but only marginally so. As for what a stat would be like, that entirely depends on how much training has been dedicated to it. Given her young age (but of course, with rejuvenat, people who look in their twenties might be a LOT older) and the amount of effort that would go into an Sg of almost 80, none of her combat stats would be stellar.
Quoteand this recording is found in a undercity so they just set up base there as the recording can't be moved.
Why can't it be moved? And for that matter, why can't they just "tape it off the radio"?
QuoteI was thinking she would have low leadership because the successful men were given officer training while the women were trained in proper etiquette.
Again, why? Etiquette isn't really the concern of the Mechanicus. (I should also point out that Leadership is a general stat that relates to communication and discipline, so good social training would produce a decent Ld.)
QuoteWhy can't it be moved? And for that matter, why can't they just "tape it off the radio"?
In a machine that is holy don't want to move it, wants to finish the creation before recording it and giving it out to others, don't know really just trying to keep it on world with out it being taking off world to a forgeworld or having a large explorer team in the undercity?
QuoteAgain, why? Etiquette isn't really the concern of the Mechanicus. (I should also point out that Leadership is a general stat that relates to communication and discipline, so good social training would produce a decent Ld.)
Magos Biologis (or Genetor) is getting funding to carry out experiments for the benefactor as for the training the benefactor provides needing men to lead and thinking along the lines of He wants the Females to be sold to nobles as bodyguards. Shrug* I stick with they all get the same training and just increase her Ld.
Magos Biologis (or Genetor) is to busy with research to teach a dozen or more at a time he leaves that to the scholars. But to have my main character to follow in the the Magos foot steps wouldn't she need to be under his tutelage. But why would Magos bother? Is she the Most stable out of the batch has the Magos done something to here that wasn't done to any of the others?
Edit: Was just looking through the Forums alot of people have characters with 60+ strength is my 67 genetic engineer special enough ? but looking at the model virgo not wanting massive hulk muscle think that a 60-70 strength would be right?
Edit 2: I was thinking around a idea of strength might drop it lower but have an ability say she pushes on a car but not strong enough to push it but the act alone stimulants muscle growth but at a rapid rate ( every turn while preforming the action increases success rate by 5 to a maximum of 80?) and then it would reside back down to normal strength levels
Edit: http://muju.deviantart.com/art/Robot-149067240?q=boost%3Apopular%20robot&qo=237 i like this design for a robot heavy forward light back http://browse.deviantart.com/?qh=§ion=&q=battle+robot#/d2ktc3r a little less high tech.
Am I the only person having quiet nerdgasms about the idea of humanoid Tau AIs?
Maybe a Tau Earth Caste engineer has decided that an un-ending army of mechanical warriors is going to be his contribution to the Greater Good?
Or perhaps he discovered the remains of a man of iron somewhere and has decided that he is going to try to reverse-engineer the machine?
Heh... Why is it that I only have good ideas during exam time?
Quote from: Nemesis on April 15, 2012, 02:03:13 AMIn a machine that is holy don't want to move it
To be honest, something being sanctified would be a reason to get it off world and into proper hands as fast as possible. Better to be defended and kept from the unrighteous.
If anything, I suspect a better reason might be that they've remained in the hopes of scouring more of the underhive for more of the machine. Threatening local gangs and the like to see if any have seen some particular archeotech.
QuoteEdit: Was just looking through the Forums alot of people have characters with 60+ strength is my 67 genetic engineer special enough ? but looking at the model virgo not wanting massive hulk muscle think that a 60-70 strength would be right?
Even taking her height into account, I'd say that given how lightly built she is, 67 is probably generous.
The highest base strength (e.g. not counting bionics, power armour, drugs, etc) I've given a female character is 70, and she's a tank of a woman - most of six feet and three hundred pounds, with barely an ounce of that fat (although quite a lot of it is metal).
Other than her, I don't think I have any female characters past S60. (My male characters go up to S83, but
that guy could stand eye to eye with a Space Marine.)
As for your idea to boost her strength... to be honest, it seems like unnecessary rules, as well as not hugely realistic.
Don't forget that she doesn't have to be a jack of all trades and can delegate - as you've got this whole Mechanicus theme, perhaps she should get some servitors or vat grown heavies to do the fighty/physical stuff and she should be focused on the thinky side of things.
Such accellerated muscle growth would be nearly impossible to achieve and added to that, the energy investment would be much more efficient with the muscles already being there.
The model looks like someone without all that much strength. The mechanicus is unlikely to care about such things as the physical appearance of the warriors they create. Selling them to nobles and the like would only greatly enlarge the chances of discovery of a secret project. Someone with genetical engineering would not necessarily have enhanced strength, that is not everything that could have been worked on. Depending on the intended role a magus would do different modifications. It is very hard to make someone stronger without increasing muscle mass, out muscles are already very efficient, if simple modifications couldhave made them stronger without increasing the mass it would certainly have happened in nature already.
The mechanicus would have moved everything as quickly as they could, unless of course you're not dealing with normal mechanicus but more of a borderline heretical faction that tries to keep under the radar of the larger priesthood. There is no reason to not record the recording, if only for the purpose of studying it without having to risk the immensely valuable archeotech.
About the different training for males and females, this again is something a magos would not care about, many of them are basically genderless and many would not see much in the way of inherent differences. All flesh is weak after all.
All flesh is weak, even for a Magos Biologis or Genetor?
The path to enlightenment remains technology. Even the biologis have extensive mechanical modifications made to their frames.
But could the Magos Biologis be Hire/paid or research funded by a noble and agreement be made that the noble receives any of the Subjects the Magos doesn't require to proceed with the Research.
The Noble who provides the funds is the one selling them but its nothing in the background work still trying to write it up nothing set in stone.
A magus paid by such a noble would probably be a bit of a renegade. He would be very expensive and a noble could come up with the idea of selling them. The problem is to who can he sell them to get out the cost without drawing suspicion. If he says that they are modified it will attract unwanted attention to the project and if he doesn't theprice will be considered too high.
A Magos is a high ranking member of the Mechanicus and is unlikely to need to look for funding, but if you want a character who might need a wealthy patron then maybe make him a heretek.
That was already a part of it, the magos was doing some borderline heretical stuff he wants to keep hidden.
I don't mean a heretical (ex)member of the Mechanicus - what about a member of some tech-cult, such as the Logicians. They are said to have backers in the nobility, and are involved in the study of archaeotech, xeno-tech, forbidden fleshworks, transgenic blasphemies, abominable intelligences and other proscribed technologies. Sounds much like this character.
There's another type of vat-grown human that's not been mentioned yet; the Geno 52, a Terran regiment featured in Legion from the heresy books. The women of the regiment were all command staff and had their ovaries harvested. Eggs were fertilised by highly decorated male officers from other regiments, who were also recruited as senior officers for the Geno 52, and the offspring became the next generation of the regiment - males to the rank and file, females to the command staff and the process starts again.
So still vat-brats but not actual clones and possibly more acceptable in the current Imperium.
Hypno-indoctrination was certainly a feature of the regiment, as the troopers could sleep on command but I'm not sure about any genetic tweaking. I don't recall anything specific but supposedly the Emperor cited the Geno 52 as inspiration in the creation of the space marines. Although that might just have referred to the hypno-training as I'm working from memory.
Almost any organisation of your choice could find enough data-scraps to want to start a similar program but if they want to stay in charge, then as Kaled says they'd probably be needing experts from outside the Mechanicus.
Another option entirely would be to have the genetics stuff be entirely legit (no use of astartes progenoid organs, nothing inhuman like scaly skin for armour for example) and the shared history for a few characters. These characters have since fallen in with some heretical types trying to recreate the men of iron and could be willing -even key- conspirators or reluctant mercenaries guilty by association.
There's even two warbands in that; one headed by your lady gene-warrior and her heretech friends, the other made up of her siblings who want to stop her without drawing the Imperium's attention.
Edit: that last bit is going in the big book of campaign ideas, thanks for the inspiration!
Logicians seem to be the group I looking for to do the story around.
A regiment such as the geno 52 would either have a large surplus of command staff or there would be a lot of pre-incubation selection going on. One set of ovaries easily contains enough egg cells for an entire new regiment, so harvesting them all would be quite a bit of work I think.
Completely legitimate genetics stuff would be hard to do, there is a lot of prejudice and many groups would disagree with even the slightest tampering not sanctioned by the Emperor Himself.
Archeotech is there any list of the stuff or just the list on lexicanum.
Isotropic crystal fuel rod - what would theses be like?
http://blightwheelminiatures.vendder.com/mantis-tank
Hrmm abit big for a robot but still alright design.
Quote from: Nemesis on April 17, 2012, 01:23:11 AMArcheotech is there any list of the stuff or just the list on lexicanum.
Archaeotech can be almost anything. It's pretty much what it says on the tin:
Archaeo-: Ancient; earlier; preceding
Tech: shortened from the word technology.
Old technology can cover a very wide range. It might be the most advanced tech from the height of the Golden Age of Technology, but it might also be an iPod.
It just happens people tend to go for the "oh look, it's awesome super-tech" end of things. Shame, because I think there's something to be had from a Tech-Priest who's found a Gameboy which he'll defend with extreme violence. (If there's anything which will last until the 41st millennium, it's the original Gameboy brick (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=EBeTXPaewMo).)
QuoteIsotropic crystal fuel rod - what would theses be like?
They're not really archaeotech, but the DH Inquisitor's Handbook has them as metre long rods of about 10 kilos, capable of powering a small settlement for a month or so. Basically, they're one hell of a battery.
Isotropic crystal fuel rod - was going to use it as a early robot power source for character before she can upgrade them? bad idea?
I don't really think that there is any real reason to upgrade such a power source, it contains a lot of energy and is quite easy to obtain, compared to some of the other power sources.
plasma generators ? but reading and finding that plasma is like a almost lost technology
Plasma generators have their uses but I would try not to build one into it, it is sure to be shot at and you don't want a 'lightly' protected plasma reactor close to you when the shooting starts, those things have a tendency to go really wrong. Another issue would be miniaturisation, most reactors in the background a a bit bigger than would fit on a robot.
Thanks Dolnikan
It's good i don't have to data mine theses forums are great.
Edit: is there any background data on anti gav engines ? like the ratio of engine compared to lift
Well, the jetbikes used by the custodians seem to have engines about the size of one of today's Jeep engines, and that's able to transport a single person plus weapon systems plus bodywork, so that's a starting point. Obviously, other races (eldar) have significantly advanced anti-grav technology, but the sort of stuff available to the imperium generally is land speeders for the astartes and/or a few very old, almost priceless examples from the dark age of technology. I think that somewhere in the canon it states that the mechanicus don't actually know how to make the more powerful systems anymore, and so the only personal transports to use anti-grav are antiques.
There are also backpack sized grav-chutes, though these aren't powerful enough to fully resist the pull of gravity, and are almost exclusively limited to specialised armies such as the Elysians and the Phantine. An inquisitor could probably get hold of a few sets, but they would be very expensive.
I'd say that on average, a man-sized anti-grav engine would be about a metre square and six inches thick, and would be able to carry a person and all the paraphenalia which accompanies them.
Antigrav technology is described with different rarities, some authors have it as nearly incomprehensible and rare while others make it appear even on civilian vehicles. This is often solved by saying that the technology is very vulnerable, for a civilian transport it is possible to build it, but to make it work in suboptimal conditions like the Imperial military often faces takes much more work and is very hard to do.
Quote from: Dolnikan on April 17, 2012, 09:58:34 PM
Antigrav technology is described with different rarities, some authors have it as nearly incomprehensible and rare while others make it appear even on civilian vehicles. This is often solved by saying that the technology is very vulnerable, for a civilian transport it is possible to build it, but to make it work in suboptimal conditions like the Imperial military often faces takes much more work and is very hard to do.
Grav-tech can't be that incomprehensible and rare if you consider the number of servo-skulls in the Imperium, or the ways in which starships and space stations must generate their own gravity to stop the crew floating around. I think whoever wrote that little nugget about incomprehensible tech dropped the ball.
http://karanak.deviantart.com/art/Fire-support-Droid-FSX-30m-188292201?q=boost%3Apopular%20droid&qo=1
This with less weaponry but similar
Light SMG Basic A F(10,20) - D6+1 100 - 35 LR UnCm American-180 (.22 LR)
Two smoke grenade launchers 1 grenade each
and two mechadendrites
wanting it to have the abiltiy to lift a human size target up and transport it say 20 meters? to much ?
It doesn't really fit with the Imperial look, too smooth and round. How are you going to model it?
Lifting a person would be difficult, at the very least it would significantly slow down the thing, depending on what sort of person it carries and what that person has with him or her.
About the rarity of antigrav equipment, I think that it is relatively easy to make very light antigrav engines for small objects, such as servo skulls, but larger ones for heavy objects would be a lot harder to make. But basically the antigrav technology is just a bit of techno-babble so almost everything is possible within the few restraints that are given.
Yeah was going to gothic it up. Know anywhere to get 54mm skulls
Not really, but the old skelleton skulls have a size that fits more with 54mm than with 28, scale-wise. Other than that I would so something about the curved look, and of course scrollwork and the like.