As discussed here (http://www.warseer.com/forums/showthread.php?371097-GW-kills-Specialist-Games), the latest news seems to be that lots and LOTS of Specialist Games models are becoming "No longer available" (with customer services apparently saying they're gone for good, with the rest due to follow).
Current count for Inquisitor seems to be that the following models can no longer be bought from the website:
Cherubael
Von Castellan
Devout Twins
Bounty Hunter
Kroot Mercenary
So, it looks like GW might be starting to launch the long expected final assault on Specialist Games. If you have anything you want to order, delaying is probably a bad idea.
Kreiger isn't available either; i wants one :'(
so i suppose the Big Question is what does this mean for Inquisitor?
do we encourage recasting or venture out into our own miniature lines or does it stagnate to death? :(
i did a quick tot-up the other day; it's like £500 for the range (with the theory of putting 'em safe for recasting :D ) ...
Ah, Krieger is listed as "Four to Five weeks" rather than "Unavailable" (so he's not missing the little "Add to Cart" button, and I therefore didn't see it in my skim of the category pages) - however, I'm expecting that's probably it for him too.
Quote from: greenstuff_gav on April 29, 2013, 06:49:13 PMso i suppose the Big Question is what does this mean for Inquisitor?
do we encourage recasting or venture out into our own miniature lines or does it stagnate to death? :(
It might well push me into actually trying the miniature line I've been contemplating for years now.
I dare say I could manage it - I'm not exactly a slouch with the design or the sculpting.
i tried to order him and get a "No sufficient stock for the selected item: sku1070048" message :(
dooo iiiit! i'd volunteer Liwet but she's with Skyfall atm.. i have the scout (http://buildyourimagination.co.uk/files/serf.jpg) ;)
Is this not the case of the molds having finally given up the ghost and that's it which is a dammed shame
Nope, it probably has more to do with GW no longer wanting to use Metal and no point for them in transferring the molds over to be resin capable.
However, I know almost nothing about this type of technology.
Quote from: greenstuff_gav on April 29, 2013, 06:49:13 PM
so i suppose the Big Question is what does this mean for Inquisitor?
do we encourage recasting or venture out into our own miniature lines or does it stagnate to death? :(
Well, given that there have been no new miniatures from G.W. for years and years now, and, in fact they have actually
reduced the range (taking away the Servo-skulls, weapons packs, Marine helmets ect.), I think that Inquisitor under Games Workshop is already about as stagnated as it can possibly get.
Any progress which has happened in Inquisitor for the last however-many-years has all come from the fan base anyway. Frankly I don't see how G.W. finally formalising it's withdrawal of specialist games' support will change very much around here!
(That said, I'm sure that in a year or two's time I'll think of some new model or other which needs a 'Magos Gruss' or an 'Inquisitor Covenant' or what ever, and I'll deeply lament my lack of foresight in failing to buy one when I had the Chance...)
I did bring up on Ammobunker that while large parts of the community (either due to collecting 28mm, or being liberal with 54mm) are not reliant on purchasing the official Inquisitor models, termination of the range may well result in a termination of the downloads section (reducing the likelihood of further recruitment. Yes, other rules downloads exist; No, they're not somewhere people would look) and possibly a change in how welcome we might be at Warhammer World.
It could change a lot around here.
As for the reason for the withdrawal - I do suspect the moulds are probably the truth of it, as we've long been informed that they had no interest in replacing them when they were done. (Particularly now Finecast has come in).
It may be that they had a big spring clean, realised many moulds were dead and are now going to take the arbitrary decision that the rest are on the way out.
As a quick notice -- Eisenhorn is now No Longer Available.
Ah nuts, and I'm not home for the next couple of days. Not that I use many official GW minis anyway (3rd parties are so much better!) I will miss them. I heartily support any efforts to recast the range or bring a new one into production.
Hope I can get a Jena & Thorian in time
Quote from: Charax on May 04, 2013, 03:01:19 PMAh nuts, and I'm not home for the next couple of days.
If you have a nearby GW you're actually willing to go into (or that they'll let you into), you could get them sent there and pick them up on your schedule.
But if the problem is not about taking delivery, disregard.
Well actually I don't have a local GW and there's none where I'm staying, it was more about not being able to get to a secure PC to order from, but I just remembered I can remote into my home PC from my phone, so as soon as I get a decent wifi signal I can buy them
... If there are any left.
Just wondering, what does this mean for the InqGTs? Should they still be played at WHW, handing money to the company which has axed the game? Will they even want it there, given that it promotes a game they don't support, using models they don't sell?
This might actually get me to model a full war and, God knows I've collected more than enough figures for it
even more reason got get shirts and orgnaise more events at WHW? :-)
i popped.into my local gw.tp find theyre closed half the week :lol:
kreiger is gone so i guess i gotta start sculpting now... and make sure i get things cast as i go (assuming i can afford.to!)
Seeing as the question of the validity of continuing to hold Inquisitor events at WHW just came up, is there any way for us to have events (possibly even on a Sunday) at a non-GWHQ location?
To address the questions in a more practical order:
Quote from: Charax on May 04, 2013, 06:31:34 PMWill they even want it there, given that it promotes a game they don't support, using models they don't sell?
They're generally reasonably flexible about OOP games being played at WHW.
They've actually got boards specifically for Space Hulk (which we sometimes borrow), and they don't sell that any more.
QuoteShould they still be played at WHW, handing money to the company which has axed the game?
That's a bit of a sticky wicket. The question really is, where else? I don't have an exhaustive list of wargaming venues in my head, but it needs to be around about in the Midlands in order to keep it reasonably central.
In any case, it may mean we stop doing vouchers with the IGT prize fund , seeing they're now rather less useful to 54mm players (if there were 28mm interest, we might need careful consideration of this though).
woth failstrom dying (again), Helix closing its doors and Tabletop Nation being essex simeplace all i got is the free hall in Radstock or Firestorm Games in Cardiff...
as to prizes with stopping the Pay-On-The-Day it should be possible ti buy prizea before the event... theres plenty of 54mm and several people looking ar their own casts...
Neither Radstock or Cardiff are really better than Hockley, at least as far as our northern friends are concerned.
As a very rough guess, we probably want to be somewhere north of Birmingham but south of Manchester, latitude wise.
It's possible there are wargaming venues in the area (and definitely rentable space, if we bring our own terrain), but I think WHW really is our best call until such a point as either we or GW really are no longer willing to have anything to do with each other.
I guess we'll know if we ring them up one day and they tell us to get stuffed.
Quotewith stopping the Pay-On-The-Day
Oooh, not a call I'd make. Our events are often half (or more) latecomers.
Quoteseveral people looking at their own casts
In the event I did start a range, I'd be willing to donate store credit to the cause.
But I don't know if I will - I'm not even quite sure what I'd start with.
theres also skyfall, once dionzi gets his current round of exams over, plus if im.not destitute ill hopefully.get some casts done
somerset is a bit far for most but the option is there :-)
maybe someone with rapport with theGCN can name summat midcountry
Quote from: MarcoSkoll on May 04, 2013, 11:49:31 PMAs a very rough guess, we probably want to be somewhere north of Birmingham but south of Manchester, latitude wise.
Having a mosy round, I thought I'd throw my tuppence in here for what it's worth. There's the Northwest Gaming Centre in Stockport as an option north of Birmingham and south of Manchester.
I've played in numerous Warmachine & Hordes tournaments there, Darran Palmer (the guy who owns the place) may well entertain the idea of people playing some Inquisitor (while he doesn't keep a lot of stock on site for many games systems, he seems to be happy for most any games to be played there as long as people put some money behind the bar for drinks etc while there :)).
For the actual midpoint of the members registers on the where do we live page it's in Cumbria but that doesn't mean there are suitable venues (with scenery) available.
Stockport seems like a good idea, but then in saying that GWHQ should still be a viable venue I'd be surprised if they shelved the playing of specialist games seeing as how they have a bloodbowl tournament there every year with a large number of players,
We seriously need to arrange bigger events, and maybe coordinate with Molatov to have both inq 28 and inq 54 represented on the same day (I'm not saying duel scale events but both events happening on the same day)
The latest news (ie. when I rang them yesterday) is that Specialist Games are still legit at WHW, so we appear to be alright for a venue - at least for now.
Quote from: NecrisFor the actual midpoint of the members registers on the where do we live page it's in Cumbria
When we've got something like three times as many members south of York as north of it, I doubt our optimal location is further north. I think you're just taking the average of the extremes there, which doesn't work as a good approximation when the distribution is uneven.
Actually south of Milton Keynes you have 10 people on the map
North of York you have 15 people on the map
And the majority are between Milton Keynes and Leeds
But if I factor in the two widest locations in the north, midland and south it comes out near harrogate
I think we're going with flawed data here as there are probably a few active members that aren't on the map, and a few less-than-active ones that are.
I'm also going to note that there's a lot of space between York and Milton Keynes, so that statement doesn't really disprove anything I said. :P
Quote from: Koval on June 20, 2013, 06:13:34 PM
and a few less-than-active ones that are.
i've got BoB and Lancer in Bath, Adrian in Trowbridge, Alhaus in Westbury, Dan in Norton and Olis in... somewhere local :lol:
how many come with me varies from 4 to 0 but that's a date-dependent issue!
Quote from: MarcoSkoll on June 20, 2013, 06:20:20 PM
I'm also going to note that there's a lot of space between York and Milton Keynes, so that statement doesn't really disprove anything I said. :P
if we take your discounting of people north of York for selecting a location by that rights we should also discount anyone living south of Milton Keynes as well as by your own statement for the north
There are three times as many players north of Milton Keynes.
So if you discount the north and south I mean who cares if they have to travel further than anyone else right?
The midpoint is Cannock chase
Which is further south of Nottingham
Is a bitch to get to if you don't drive
If you factor in absolutely every point on the map its chatsworth park near Sheffield
Tony, sorry to bring this up again, but do your data account for:
-people that show up to events only infrequently
-people that haven't showed up to events before but are just about to start doing so (eg. Krenshar)
-people that come along to events but don't post so much (eg. Gav's mates)
-people that have moved house
-other anomalies that I'm forgetting?
Basically, my concern is just about the accuracy of the data.
I concede that the data isn't accruate but in saying that it still gives an optimal dispersal of players of inquisitor.
But if you only count people that show up to events you need to look at he average number of attendees over the years lets say that (at a guess) is around 6-10 people per event
Then look at the regular attendees
1 of them is in Preston
2 of them are in Scotland
That's between 30 and 50 percent of regular attendees coming from the north
Now from the other end there is one in bath and one just outside of London (if I'm correct)
Quote from: Necris on June 22, 2013, 07:07:56 PMif we take your discounting of people north of York for selecting a location by that rights we should also discount anyone living south of Milton Keynes as well as by your own statement for the north
Yes...? It was you that brought up Milton Keynes, and I can't see how it is any way relevant to disproving what I said (your whole post started with an "actually", implying the overlooking of some relevant detail in what I said about York).
The matter of below Milton Keynes being too far south to be central doesn't change above York being too far north to be central.
Quote from: Necris on June 22, 2013, 10:08:34 PMBut if you only count people that show up to events you need to look at he average number of attendees over the years lets say that (at a guess) is around 6-10 people per event
We've had a couple of bum events, but I think we've averaged about 11 (including organisers) over the 9 events I've been to since the 2009 IGT.
QuoteNow from the other end there is one in bath and one just outside of London (if I'm correct)
Gav regularly brings extras or Shannow catches a lift with him, so there's actually several regulars around the Bath/Bristol area.
~~~~~
Aside from sticking with my rough initial assessment of between Birmingham and Manchester seeming a solid bet, we've not been kicked out of WHW yet and gaming stores seem to come and go on a regular basis, so it doesn't really seem worth thinking too far ahead.
I was able to pick up the Chaos Magus and Krieger on GW's site but they had to get Krieger from the UK; I'm in NYC. I picked up Quovidanius fairly cheap on Ebay. Ebay has some good stuff there and not too pricey for the most part.
At the present time, only Dannica, Barbaretta, and the Eversor are left on GW's store.
... aaaaaaand that's right about it.
They've rebooted the GW webstore. No trace of the Specialist Games is to be seen - some of the downloads for other SGs (everything for Inquisitor is missing) can still be found on their server via Google, but good luck trying to find them through their site. (The same thing applies to all the core game FAQs).
boo for lack of support, huzzah for your archive!
and my archive of 54mm miniatures.. must order silicone...
I thought it was pretty strange that, giving the huge amount of fans for various Specialist Games, that GW has cleared all trace of them from the website. It's a shame they couldn't have found a way to keep these games alive. Oh well.
The games themselves might be dead in the eyes of GW - but you can bet they'll still cash in on the licenses - after all we're about to get a new Bloodbowl computer game - and a 2nd space hulk computer game. Nevermind all the FF creations.
Someone at GW obviously recognises the appeal of these games and if I could get Steam on my stupid dongle then I'd have the Space Hulk game by now. You'd think though that with all the 3D modelling that GW are doing these days that they could have produced a few plastic models for these games, imagine some 54mm plastic kits?! At the very, very least, they could have an archive section with the PDFs of the rulebooks and resources on the website, I don't think hosting that material would have blown the bank at GW, it does seem odd to me. :-\
i know there's Yakromunda (necro), Tactical Command (epic)and The Conclave have archives, but i'm sad for Mordheim, Gothic and Gorkamorka!
also, why is WHQuest i-devices only?! ARG! :lol:
There was a small scale in serious discussions and negotiations with licensing the specialist games for outside production
But it seems to have never got off the ground
Quote from: greenstuff_gav on April 12, 2014, 11:06:34 PM
i know there's Yakromunda (necro), Tactical Command (epic)and The Conclave have archives, but i'm sad for Mordheim, Gothic and Gorkamorka!
also, why is WHQuest i-devices only?! ARG! :lol:
Because all of their app games are awful, running an iPad air and they still crash every 5 mins.
Piss poor testing and even worse support
Quote from: Kallidor on April 12, 2014, 04:08:19 AMgiving the huge amount of fans for various Specialist Games
I think "huge" is rather relative.
Part of the problem is that there's not really any metric for this - even GW doesn't really know how many SG players there are. Most of the SG relates sales for a good long time have got to have been hidden.
A Necromunda gang, Mordheim warband or Blood Bowl team converted from the core range boxed sets (as opposed to using the the heavily diminished and generally rather dated official ranges) shows up as WH40K or WHFB sales. Similarly for the fast growing 28mm Inquisitor community.
With nothing left to prove any rate of SG related sales, it's easy to justify not spending money on the bandwidth to support these games.
Quote from: Heroka Vendile on April 12, 2014, 08:45:52 PMNevermind all the FF creations.
Yes, well - there are a lot of people out there who're convinced that Dark Heresy is a replacement for Inquisitor.
And I don't think so. DH's enjoyable in its own right, but it's a fairly typical RPG - Inquisitor's offer of writing an entire cast of characters fully formed is a much more unique experience.
and ironically i think the average price for 54mm figures now is about £20 second hand; pretty much what GW were charging before they went OOP...
Quote from: MarcoSkoll on April 12, 2014, 11:57:40 PM
And I don't think so. DH's enjoyable in its own right, but it's a fairly typical RPG - Inquisitor's offer of writing an entire cast of characters fully formed is a much more unique experience.
aye; RPGs are a great medium but some of us want to push toy soldiers about! :)
also, howsat for coinkidink Marco; that Daniel Owen bitching on friendface is complaining about me telling him to play more games than just infinity :lol:
i love how apaprently suggesting that other games exist equated to "BUY MOAR 40K!" ::)
Quote from: greenstuff_gav on April 13, 2014, 12:09:19 AMRPGs are a great medium but some of us want to push toy soldiers about! :)
That too.
Quotealso, howsat for coinkidink Marco; that Daniel Owen bitching on friendface is complaining about me telling him to play more games than just infinity
But Infinity is teh awesum! :P
Quote from: MarcoSkoll on April 13, 2014, 12:40:41 AM
But Infinity is teh awesum! :P
that sounds like Dan :)
great models (http://buildyourimagination.co.uk/minis/gallery/panoc.jpg), tedious ruleset is my stance i'm afraid!
Each to their own, I guess - I personally think it's a very enjoyable ruleset. Got involved with my first tournament(s) about three weeks back and didn't have any trouble keeping pace (even came #2 in Saturday's team play, although much of the credit must go to my assigned team mate).
But then, when it comes to rules complexity, I guess I'm the kind of person who can quote the Inquisitor ruleset near verbatim...
Also, yes, they are nice models (mostly). It doesn't stop me covering them in ludicrous amounts of green stuff though.
Infinity models have a lot of potential, but they utter lack a consistent tone. Even with the weird variety of man-tanks, green gorillas, fetish space elves, WWI human ammunition, and whatever else, 40K manages some kind of tone. How can you have space-scotsmen with literal kilts in the same model range as Islamic nationalist blackops and transhuman combat forms? Also, werewolves.
Quote from: DapperAnarchist on April 14, 2014, 11:43:51 AMHow can you have space-scotsmen with literal kilts in the same model range as Islamic nationalist blackops and transhuman combat forms?
For the Space Scots, Drookian Fen Guard and Finreht Highlanders. (No, they never got models, but they're an established part of the universe with associated art).
For the religious nationalist black-ops, the Inquisition are pretty good.
For the transhuman combat forms, Spess Mahreens.
For the werewolves, the warp did it.
... or were you being sarcastic? :P
This wide-spread approach gives them a fairly wide range of appeal, but most ranges are fairly self consistent - and the game is well balanced enough that there's no model you can't do without if you genuinely don't like it.
But yes, I have tried telling them that not all Scotsmen have red hair and most of them don't wear tartan all the time either.
Werewolves - don't forget wolfen from space wolves,
But yes Gav the Facebook argument was pitched well out of context and was unfair considering you suggested other systems.
Me I've virtually given up on GW even inquisitor has lost its shine for me, I'm even swayed from =I=28 as I've yet to enjoy a game of it. I've shifted to games like malifaux, infinity and warmahordes,