It's starting to approach the right kind of time window for booking things early next year (be it WHW or train tickets), so it seems worth kicking this discussion into gear.
As far as I'm aware, we have three problems to address regarding a 2014 IGT:
1) Who's running it?
Van Helser ran this year, but will have honeymoon-ish commitments at around about the same time next year.
I am possibly willing to volunteer, but it would have to be on an understanding that I would be bringing along models and joining in with the gaming (although perhaps not GMing); while I'm content to (at other events) GM for an entire day, I'm not sold on just standing around not getting involved in games.
2) When is it being held?
Well... for the last few events, it's been late in March, but it was a December thing for the events previous to that.
However, there are two problems with late March as far I can see. The Ammobunker 2014 OpenBash - an event typically held early in March - and Koval's plans for a late April event.
While not everyone here cares too much about the OpenBash, this could mean three events in less than two months for some 28mm players (assuming the IGT is trying to keep that option open), and could therefore dent attendance at either the GT or the Abraxis event.
Earlier than March seems like it would probably be too soon (although February isn't completely out of the question), so I'm tempted to aim later ... May might work, if Molotov's INQvitational isn't too early in June.
July or August generally don't work well, that's holiday time for many people.
September is a lot later than previously... but it might work.
As far as I can see, we aim for late March, mid-May or early July, hoping these don't clash - or wait until September.
3) What are we doing about prizes?
It's rather difficult to miss the dearth of 54mm models on the GW site. This means that vouchers have lost a lot of their usefulness for 54mm players. Certainly there are some models that can be converted, but there's only so much value in that.
Given the often large number of people turning up "on the day", acquiring a suitable value of prizes from other sources in advance is impractical. Also, it might well give people things they don't hugely want.
Option three would be to scrap the entry fee and many of the prizes - taking it back to things like certificates and bragging rights. Well, and the picture I've got on the wall at least.
~~~~~
Anyway, answers on a postcard please, ladies, gentlemen and small furry creatures from Alpha Centauri.
Quoteladies, gentlemen and small furry creatures from Alpha Centauri
I don't think the Adeptus Mechanicus delegation is very happy.
1) I'd volunteer if I had any clue how to run the IGT -- something non-IGT-related is all fine and dandy, but when there's a much greater level of bookkeeping involved, not to mention the likelihood that the organiser won't be doing much actual gaming, I'm left wondering how the hell I'd actually do it.
As you also point out, Ancient Rites means I'm already running one event, and running two in such quick succession just sounds a bit greedy :P
2) I'd be happy with any of those options -- to be quite honest, I did three events in the space of about five weeks last spring (Openbash, two weeks going spare, IGT, Vanquish), so a succession of events wouldn't be that much of a turn-off for
me. I can understand, however, that anyone travelling in from Far Far Away, such as Gav, will have some reservations about doing too many things so close together.
May would be the least favourable option in my opinion, though, given the possibility that there'll be a June INQvitational (though Molotov may need to confirm that one way or another). If you do it in March or even early April, I can stand to miss out on Vanquish as I'd rather play Inquisitor, and if you do it in July then I can't think of anything I'm doing that gets in the way, but I'm happy to roll with whatever anyone else wants to do.
3) How about buying some artwork from the stall at the back of Bugman's, in the event that people aren't so turned on by the prospect of vouchers?
Quote from: Koval on November 01, 2013, 06:50:44 PM
anyone travelling in from Far Far Away, such as Gav
there's worse; it only costs me about £45 in petrol!
if no-one else steps forward, Marco could we dual-oversee it mayhaps? find a way that we can both play as well; i too would volunteer but i really want to play :lol:
regarding dates, could we push it to november and arrange a Summer Conclave? i'm hoping for a feb-time Southwest meet, but Ancient Rites in April i don't think there's any more 54mm planned?
with the (temporary) death of 54mm could we go begging? there's plenty of stores selling alternate 54mm?
my last set of vouchers went toward Tiamat's two talos kits but there is a lack of suitable 54mm fodder in GWs catalogue these days... i suppose worst case they'd be traded off for other projects...
Quote from: Koval on November 01, 2013, 06:50:44 PMI don't think the Adeptus Mechanicus delegation is very happy.
Yes, but they don't appreciate fine literature...
QuoteI'd volunteer if I had any clue how to run the IGT
You're overestimating it a bit. The ground work is already done. Basically, you:
- Book tables
- Change the dates on the player pack to match the booking
- Badger people until they buy a ticket
- Turn up on the day
- Hand out bits of paper
- Browbeat people who haven't filled in the bits of paper
- Add up all the numbers on those bits of paper.
Personally, I might do a bit more than just that - I'd probably reword the scoring guidelines to try and encourage a wider spread of scores (because if the descriptions lead the average score given for a category to be an 8, a perfect 10 isn't really that much of a step up).
Quotea succession of events wouldn't be that much of a turn-off for me.
There's definitely people it wouldn't hugely faze, but I'm almost certain that would be an over-saturation for some players.
Quote3) How about buying some artwork from the stall at the back of Bugman's
It's not a bad suggestion, but there's already a picture doing the rounds as part of the prizes and there's unlikely to be anything much Inquisition themed.
Quote from: greenstuff_gav on November 01, 2013, 07:27:09 PMif no-one else steps forward, Marco could we dual-oversee it mayhaps? find a way that we can both play as well; i too would volunteer but i really want to play :lol:
Well, Kaled did join in the gaming at the 2012 event, so it's nothing too radical to do that. It might be over the top to start joining in with the GMing though, as that could have a larger impact on the scoring*.
* I'm assuming, for reasons of impartiality, that the organiser should not actually be in the scoring**, so the players in that game essentially don't get to vote for that game.
** But I'd probably have people score me anyway, out of interest.
Quoteregarding dates, could we push it to november and arrange a Summer Conclave?
That'd be dang late in the year, and will have a big bearing on when the IGT might be in 2015. It doesn't feel "right" to have the 2015 IGT only a few months after the 2014 one.
Also, getting too close to the end of the year might mean I'm doing a lot of events in a row - I've got
maybe a quarter of an idea for a series of linked events in around about 2015.
Each event with its own stand-alone plot, but which will also fit into a larger narrative. (However, highly insane and by no means agreed to - I'm not promising anything until after all the notes are on paper).
Quotei'm hoping for a feb-time Southwest meet
... which I'd forgotten. D'oh.
Duly noted: Avoid February.
Quotewith the (temporary) death of 54mm could we go begging? there's plenty of stores selling alternate 54mm?
Yes, but only so many are naturally suitable for the 40k setting.
I have considered the possibility of picking a piece of 40k art and sculpting it in both 54mm and 28mm for prizes, but I wouldn't want to promise such a thing until I had them both in my hands, given my habit for procrastination and the number of other things I should be doing.
As the spring seems to be fairly booked up with events at the moment, I'd suggest going with a June or July date especially as the Summer Conclave has morphed into an Autumn Conclave usually in September these days.
Either of those would make it wise to have a word with Molotov, as that's a likely time for him to put the next INQvitational.
I know it doesn't matter to everyone, but some people will want to be at both events, so why have a clash if we can avoid it?
The only other options then are May or a Nov/December winter meet.
The issue with May is that it means monthly events from February until June for some people which could put people off due to travel costs.
I suppose you could replace the Autumn Conclave in September with the IGT.
"Replace" is not a word I'd use, as that ultimately reduces the number of events we have.
A September IGT is not my first choice because there's a risk of colliding with religious holidays, but that's a problem with September in general -- and it would in principle let us move the Autumn Conclave down to a November/December slot.
Somehow I get the distinct impression that the inability to do something in the spring is sort of my fault :P
Quote from: Cortez on November 03, 2013, 12:00:59 PMThe only other options then...
To clarify, I don't think either June or July are impossible (although I'd definitely rule out August - too many people on holidays), but we'd definitely want to work out we weren't inadvertently putting the event on the same day as the INQvitational.
Preferably not on the weekend immediately either side, either. But it depends on whether we'd actually have a turnout of 28mm players.
Quote from: Koval on November 03, 2013, 01:13:47 PMSomehow I get the distinct impression that the inability to do something in the spring is sort of my fault :P
To a degree. If you're set on the 26th, the as-of-yet unknown dates for the OpenBash and 2014 INQvitational will make picking a date that isn't right on the doorstep of other events quite tough.
While the 'Bash has been 2nd Saturday in March for the last two years, previous dates have included 26th April 2009, 27th March 2010 and 11th June 2011. Were it again early March, then the latest March or earliest April dates
might be alright. If it's not, then we could be in trouble.
I'm guessing the INQvitational will
probably be early June, which would make mid-May alright.
A three week gap is probably alright. But without knowing all the dates, guessing a date where we'll be sure to get a three week gap is very tricky.
If we only have vague ideas as to when most of these events are being held then perhaps we should just simply select a date for the IGT and let the other, as yet unfixed, events work around it.
I see your point, and agree that yes, we should make a decision, but "letting the other events work around it" carries with it the general risk of a clash between one of our events and one that someone else is planning -- and that's a clash I'd rather not have to worry about.
Of course we should try to avoid a clash wherever possible. Which is why I think pencilling in a weekend now is a good idea as it allows the other organisers to see more clearly what events are being planned when. At the moment we only seem to have one fixed date (26th April) which makes it very hard to plan.
Maybe it would be a good idea for all the event organisers to get in touch and try and put together a calendar for next years events.
I'm afraid I have to be cynical and say that the dismal size of the IGT in recent years and the very low shared player base is unlikely to make it an important concern for other event planners to work around.
~~~~~
If it comes down to it, I'd rather risk a clash with the 'Bash than the 'Vitational, as I tend to find the latter the better event and the one I'd less want to miss.
I'd not even take a full up collision into the Bash as terminal, as the only two people I can say for certain would have to make the choice is Koval and I... and I wouldn't find that choice a particularly difficult one to make.
No offence to the 'Bash, but both my previous attendances have involved less gaming than the IGT does. (Although, should I be organising, the choice would be rather out of my hands).
And provided a modicum of civility was exhibited, a few more face-to-face meetings between the communities could be a good thing.
Still, that's very much a Plan B rather than a Plan A.
My own issue is other events not related to GW at all as at the moment I'm in Guildford late February for a convention then Dublin for another convention early March.
Plus at some point next week I might actually sort out the next few months of events in Leeds which may include another Loidis event.
I have no idea at the moment on date for the Inqvitational. I know stuff on the plot, but not any thinking on the date. Mol's busy with work I assume.
Just thought I'd drop in a couple of pennies.
I will definitely be unable to run anything next year due to this pesky wedding I'm having in the spring. Unfortunately, I am also going to be very unlikely able to attend anything in the first half of next year as for a honeymoon I'm hoping to go travelling for six months. Might be able to wrangle a weekend in January (southwest conclave?) for some gaming, but after that it'll probably be September before I'm back.
Right, as for useful, helpful advice:
The IGT basically runs itself. All the player packs and scoring guides are already available, thank to the legwork done by Precinct_Omega and Kaled in years gone by. Dates will need to be changed, and a new "Inquisition" quiz will be needed, but that's pretty straightforward.
Prizes: in years gone past the prize pot was what was left over after deducting the organiser's costs from the entry fees. With seven entrants last year there wasn't much coming in, so I swallowed the admin costs (printing stuff mainly) to let there be a decent prize pot. Whomever runs it should probably plan to write off their costs too, as I imagine the number of entrants will be small again. I do wonder though whether anyone really cares about cash prizes though? If it were free entry it might encourage more people to come along. Certificates, and special prizes like the painting and pistol awarded last year are fun and might be appreciated more as "trophies".
I still think the IGT has a place in the grand scheme of things as it encourages people to get involved with every aspect of Inquisitor, from playing in the spirit of the game, to modelling and painting and scenario running. I think the more people take part in the IGT, the better and more varied the campaign days are. Having to GM is one of the best ways to learn the game, and writing a scenario for the IGT can and shoud lead to running a campaign day.
Ruaridh
We've got the framed artwork and the pistol (and treasure chest) we can use as prizes, plus normally we get a few donations, so we could try making it cheaper or free for a year and see how that goes...
I can only say this for certain for myself, but I suspect it will ring true for a sizeable sector of potential attendees:
My train fare makes just about any entry cost pale into insignificance, and at a tenner or so (IIRC) will have no impact at all on whether I attend or not, it'll rest entirely on what else I've got on around then and how much it'll cost me to get there.
Prizes are a nice bonus (must paint that squig...), but again are a small point in the balance of actually getting to play a few games versus having to spend a wad of cash to get up there.
[I'd offer to eat up a big chunk of the printing expenses, since no-one ever checks usage around here, but I managed to forget my own dice for the Autumn Conclave, so I wouldn't trust myself with vital materials.]
To come back to this...
I also have never really seen the entry cost as a deterrent; when the entry fees (almost) all go back into the prize pot in the form of vouchers that people can turn into what they actually want, a small entry fee is not really a deciding factor. The costs of travel and lunch are usually considerably larger.
However, I'm struggling to see how an entry fee can efficiently turn into prizes when we consistently have late cancellations/confirmations (so cannot reliably purchase prizes to a suitable value in advance*) and GW no longer supply the 54mm range (making vouchers of limited value to some participants).
So, I think the only feasible option is to try running it as a free event, circulating the appropriate prizes plus handing out any donations that might be made, although I'm not sure if it will make any difference to the number of entrants.
*Particularly if we don't know the scale breakdown of players. I'm not expecting a large 28mm turn-out, but I'm not making an assumption to that effect.
Right... for the sake of not procrastinating over at least one thing in my life, I'll put my name down solidly to run the 2014 IGT (perhaps as a joint effort with Gav, but that's up to him) so that it doesn't not happen because there's no-one to run it. The small-print behind that is:
- I will be looking to insert myself into as much of the gaming as possible - I'm not up for just standing around not doing much.
- Unless some really smart idea regarding prizes comes up, I'm expecting it to be a free event. Prizes will be whatever donations we get, plus the circulating trophies.
- I may adjust some of the scoring categories or guidelines to a degree. Nothing dramatic though.
- I am hoping it can be dual scale. However, the previously low turnouts of 28mm ready players will mean that some asking around will have to happen to see if there's actually enough interest to pull that off. If not, then the date won't need to be planned around 28mm events to the same degree (and the below point also becomes moot).
- Given the different nature of the prize pool, I may reconsider whether 28 and 54mm scoring can be combined into one. As the rankings will lose their monetary prizes and become basically just prestige positions, I hope there'll be less to argue over on this front.
Any complaints, speak up now...
Sounds good to me Marco.
As I told Koval (possibly in another thread, possibly PM), I'm hoping to be able to bring 28mm clones of my crew to at least one event.
Everyone's in robes - shouldn't be too hard.
That should make it possible to have at least one or two crews present in 54mm and 28mm scenarios, tying them into the same plot.
I don't suppose a couple more people would be willing to play a scenario or two with someone else's 28mm bands to give us enough of a playerbase to run two interwoven campaigns at both scales?
If it turns out that there is close to enough 28mm interest, a couple of extra people for a game or two could shift it from a tacked-on bunch of games into an equally integral part of the plot.
The IGT is not a campaign event with one interweaving plot, though. As it's (very ostensibly) an all-round competition, attendees will spend one of the games GMing a scenario they wrote (or sometimes two if there's not the right number of attendees to have same number as the number of games).
So, it doesn't have any one central plot, but it works very well - while games don't have a knock-on effect on other games, that means everyone can write scenarios that don't have the restriction of being a piece in a larger story.
Fair point, I had completely forgotten that.
In that case, it should be even easier to get a handful of 54mm players into a 28mm game to keep the 28mm exclusives company if necessary. Ha.
Wee bit trickier than that, as the scoring includes characters and people have previously had to take the same characters for the whole day... but I'm considering changing the latter part.
Certainly, I think it should be allowed for players to willingly change scales, although I have no plans to force anyone to.