...Is there an aversion to them?
There almost seems to be, in that the focus is on the GW figures which have not been available for decades and when they were, were nice but overpriced. Plastic figures are cheap, cheaper than resin, and there are lots of them around at the moment, in what is a second golden age for 1/32nd plastic toy soldiers.
OK often they are not as detailed or finely sculpted as the metal ones and of course there aren't exact matches to the I figures, but most posters here appear to be excellent converters, wielding the greenstuff like they were born to it.
I am just surprised, I guess, that there are not more figures made from modern, or indeed even old, plastic 54mm figures. Is it that people aren't aware of what is available? If so would adding some makers and retailers websites to the sticky on 54mm Resources and perhaps a run through of some ideas of what might be usable be useful?
If so I may need help with attachments-I've asked Van H about how to 'attach' them.
Quote from: Mike Blake on September 16, 2015, 10:34:24 AMthe GW figures which have not been available for decades and when they were, were nice but overpriced.
I'll have to object a little to that assessment - the range disappeared from the GW site only a little over two years ago, and the prices went from an average of ~£15 at release to ~£18.50 at the end; Given that they used a lot of metal and needed several moulds each (representing not just more silicone, but more effort to cast), I think they represent one of the most reasonable price points GW has occupied since at least the millennium. (Particularly as a "force" for the game averages three to four models).
Anyway, as far as an aversion to plastic, an important thing to consider in this debate is that the material alone does not necessarily speak completely about what the models are like to work with.
I'm going to jump to an analogy regarding a related situation: I've seen a lot of people describe the metal 54mm range as a mad folly, and that it meant that you didn't have all the options of the plastic 28mm range for the game...
... to which I have to respond "What options do you think there were?". The game came out in 2001 and at the time, most WH40k factions were lucky to have multi-part plastics for more than their basic troop choice and not even that at times - things like the Cadian Shock trooper box were still two years off. Character models were almost exclusively metal, and while there was a good range of them (and other metal miniatures), they were mostly one or two part castings.
Now, I love doing intricate conversions with such models when it comes to the INQ28 side of my hobby - my female Arbitrator (formerly a metal SM scout) and similarly sex-swapped Kasrkin are some of my favourite miniatures ever - but these days, I'm seen as something of a weird (and occasionally envied) radical for working with the kind of models that would have actually made up a 28mm Inquisitor range.
Certainly, I agree that it would be questionable for GW to release a similar 54mm range today, but the original 54mm metals were many years ahead of the 28mm range in terms of providing multi-part, widely convertable miniatures for the game. (While the 28mm revival has been going on for a while, I'd say many of the efforts of the major INQ28 modellers pre-2011 or so were based on metals).
So, to get back to the point, the virtue of GW's 28mm range is not really that it's plastic or cheap (which it isn't! Some of the modern single-pose plastic characters cost more than Inquisitor models did), but that it's thousands of easily broken down models. The original 54mm range, while smaller in number, is versatile and thus remains a surprisingly solid foundation for the game.
I've not seen a lot of 1:32 scale ranges that offer the same kind of scope. Often they're models that don't break down far (if at all). Airfix's range of WWII infantry, which I have worked with...
(http://i772.photobucket.com/albums/yy3/MarcoSkoll/Inquisitor%20Models/WIP%20Models/CIMG1271-1272.jpg)
... are a fair example of this. They were about £8 for a box of 14, but that included six repeats, they were all one piece castings and the quality isn't stellar.
Now, in fairness, they've converted up reasonably well into a squad of NPC guardsmen (with some 28mm Cadian parts thrown at them). And the so-called "Russian Plastics" from Tehnolog have also been something of a hit, and quite a few members have turned them into gangs of thugs and goons.
But there's less use to such a box outside the context of nameless nobodies though. I've seen a few player characters made from them, but only so many.
If I want a guardsman as a player character, I'd really rather sculpt them or invest into one really nice model than an okay one that comes bundled with nine other okay models that I don't really need (and, unlike with INQ28 modelling, probably isn't compatible with a jillion other boxes to be kitbashed in an unimaginable number of combinations).
That all being said, I can't see that it would hurt to have a greater range of suggestions for 54mm model ranges, plastic or otherwise, so I'd be interested to hear about them.
Apart from the fact that the community still haven't ran out of ideas regarding the old range, I'm very much interested in these resources (although agreeing with most of Marco's comment)
I rely heavily on GW's plastics and combining them with metal became an ever growing problem for me (I hate working with superglue....)
Of course INQ is about characters, and most 1:32 plastics couldn't offer such outstanding postures we usually deem usable...
most of my NPCs (http://www.the-conclave.co.uk/forum/index.php?topic=2537.msg33936#msg33936) are Victrix Napoleonic plastics so there are options; a bit of works can make not bad characters (http://www.the-conclave.co.uk/forum/index.php?topic=2354.msg31669#msg31669)
one of the issues with plastic production is the high cost of mould-tooling and setting up facilities; anyone can resin cast in their garage while it takes serious finance to get plastic production going; even the way the miniatures are sculpted/ moulded is vastly different!
Just realised I had't checked Notify, so missed the responses.
Let me start by saying I agree with all that has been said, especially the comments about the quality (defined by imagination, versatility, animation, sculpting, detail) of the GW metal 54mm ( was really only addressing my comments to that size) figures. And I was being deliberately a little provocative hoping it might help stimulate responses.
The Airfix conversion an excellent example of the sort of potential plastic figures have, as well as being a super job in itself. I just wondered whether some of the 54ers were missing a trick because they were not aware of what was out there in cheap (relatively) plastic, because its a 'different hobby'. I know that when we do games at shows/conventions most of the people who stop and talk have no idea that there are so many plastic figures available, never mind where to buy them!
Again, as an example, most of the old Airfix WWII Multi-pose sets have been/are being reissued (n a slightly different guise with a very basic paint set and brush). This opens up many more possibilities for all kinds of bits, both human, weapons and equipment.
I only made the offer because I write a plastic review column in the hobby magazine Toy Soldier Collector and so get to know about most of the new releases and have a way-back archive of previous releases to draw on.
What I really ought to do is actually put my money where my mouth is and do some conversions of the figures I think have potential-stop talkin' and start doin'!
I got good results out of some ~54mm Halo models sold as... sort of action figures? Pre-painted, in packs of three, stuff like that, but without hinges or anything. I got them in Forbidden Planet a while back - probably like 6 or 7 years ago.
Yes, those are the sort of figures I mean. I have some too but have yet to do anything with them... Would love top see what you achieved with them, as I keep changing my mind just what to do with them.
My primary problem with most of the plastic 54mm kits I've seen or got my hands on is the scale - specifically, the ol' traditional GW Heroic Scale with fists the size of hams and heads the size of slightly larger than anatomically correct heads.
I have a few Airfix and similar WW2 infantry at 1/32nd and thereabouts, and they all look like children beside GW 54mm sculpts.
I've used/fluffed/planned some of mine as teenagers, malnourished, mutants or clones, but at the end of the day they just don't seem to fit all that well as 'normal' adults.
Agreed-size can be the problem (stop it!) with plastic figures-too tall for dwarves, too small for men ;)
Some of the old makers and some of the new ones too did/do figures nearer to GW 'heroic' ie more like 1/30th (60mm) than 1/32nd (54mm).
Modern makers at the bigger end of the scale include Expeditionary Force, who do WWII American and Germans, 100 Years Wars Medievals, Ancient Greeks and Persians and, probably least useful, ACW (all of which are semi-multi-part BTW ie assembled from some parts like arms and heads, making disassembly and conversion easier) and TSSD (Toy Soldiers of San Diego) who do Old West and ACW.
Quote from: Mike Blake on September 18, 2015, 04:34:24 PMie more like 1/30th (60mm) than 1/32nd (54mm).
It's generally better to think of it as "heroic style" rather than "heroic scale".
The models aren't really taller (for example, Slick Devlan is only about 52mm tall), so much as they're chunkier.
(http://i772.photobucket.com/albums/yy3/MarcoSkoll/Inquisitor%20Models/WIP%20Models/CIMG1280.jpg)
I guess this is really a problem more with GW's range than anyone else's (and not just plastic specific), as most 54mm ranges are more anatomically correct in their proportions and styling. This is another aspect in why these work best as NPCs for me, where their less imposing postures are an acceptable artistic licence.
This is true even against my sculpts, which do use realistic proportion, but where I do tend to use, as you suggested, about 1:30 scale in order to make their smaller bulk less apparent (although I then often use the slightly thinner 40mm bases that everyone that's not GW uses, which compensates for their height gain slightly).
Also, 1:30 is easier to do the maths for in my head, as it equates quite closely to one centimetre per foot.
MarcoSkoll has Good point-it is more about bulk or chunkiness than height.
Seeing the figure on the left reminded me that TSSD have WWII Germans in steel helmets and greatcoats, a basis for 'Death Corps/Iron Legion' IG NPCs I would think.
If you have some examples of plastics you've converted or links to suppliers you're fond of (but that aren't on the sticky) please feel free to share. I myself have 18 plastic tehnolog minis but they are (admittedly) NPCs (though there are a couple unique NPCs that are GM played characters). It helps to keep a board full for bigger games.
Now, I have a decent amount of plastic components that are used in creating my PCs. Some are minor bits (weapons and swag) but there are some heads, limbs, and the occasional torso or legs. It's more a function of what everyone else has already brought up that prevents me from using them for PCs. Again though, show me what you've got and I'm very willing to convert! (ba dum cha)