The Conclave

My currently actually built and painted warband is still missing two figures (yet to be painted and sheeted up, but the models are ready).

However, a third is soon to be in the offing - a Tau "Alien Commander 2.0" from Papah models.
A 54mm Tau? And when you bear in mind I really enjoyed the Fire Warrior PC game when I played through it (more than a few times).
How could I not?

However...
This does leave me in a bit of a spot - what possible way could a fully armoured and armed Tau Fire Warrior appar in games?
I know at least one of our number has managed this before (I've been reading backwards through the history of the "In the Field" section of the boards).

I would like to add the character to the warband alongside two other models (if I ever complete and sheet them to my satisfaction), as the warband is basically themed around a lot of computer games I enjoyed growing up, but with an eye towards actually making them as believable characters in the 40k universe, that merely borrow the theme of those games/characters, sometimes combining several such character themes into a single character and then going at the backstory with pruning shears rather than scissors, rather than coming from wholesale cloth.

But a Tau Fire Warrior makes for a difficult one - moreso than the others.

I could say that perhaps he got left behind, and the Inquisitor managed to convince him that staying alive and with her would better serve the "greater good" than dying alone for no reason.
I could say that perhaps the Fire Warrior has been too far and too long from the Ethereals, and whatever conditioning they have/had over him has begun to break down, causing him to turn mercenary, with an eye towards hunting orks, a-la O'Shovah's lot.
Perhaps he's the last surviving bodyguard of a water caste envoy, and has been forced to swear into the Inquisitor's service in payment for delivery back to a Tau world (at whatever point suits the Inquisitor).

Perhaps he's excused as being a mutant wherever he goes, so that unsuspecting humans who know nothing of the Tau won't start a fight (they probably will anyway, let's be honest). Or a servitor/admech construction, when wearing the helmet.

These are just top of the head ideas that probably have gaping plotholes, as I don't have my Tau codices to hand, and it's been a while since I read any Tau centric books.

Gear wise, the only issue is the gun, as the armour is basically just carapace quality, and the helmet the same with autosenses (night vision, thermal, and a range finder, IIRC). The guns are rated as stronger than a bolter, but decidedly weaker than a plasma weapon - on par with a heavy bolter, ish, possibly slightly weaker.

Thoughts/help?
(I'll be painting in classic T'au colours).

Quote from: mcjomar on February 29, 2016, 09:41:33 AMThis does leave me in a bit of a spot - what possible way could a fully armoured and armed Tau Fire Warrior appar in games?

The tau are known to try to foster relations with the Imperium (or try to get close and observe their weaknesses, depending on which interpretation you go with). This would generally be the preserve of the Water caste, but it's not impossible that a Fire caste might be deemed more suitable for certain missions (because they're higher risk or need a more military eye).

A lot of your suggestions would work.

And as you say, it's entirely possible possibility is that there was a Water caste and the Fire caste was his bodyguard, but said ambassador was slain at some point on the mission. It might not be that he's sworn into the Inquisitor's service though. If you're setting yourself in the Carthax sector, it's pretty distant from the Tau Empire (given the tau's short ranged warp capabilities, any tau that are there have almost certainly hitched a ride with the Imperium), so the chain of command is fairly thin. It may be he's still to receive new orders, or he's been told that, in the absence of an immediately available replacement for the ambassador, he needs to proceed with the mission on his own for now.

And, yes, he could also have become dangerously independent in the absence of Ethereal guidance. I suspect there probably are few, if any, Ethereals as far abroad as the Carthax sector, and they're probably pretty low ranking.

QuoteThe guns are rated as stronger than a bolter, but decidedly weaker than a plasma weapon - on par with a heavy bolter, ish, possibly slightly weaker.

Kaled wrote some rules in Firebase magazine (this particular issue is available on the Skoll archive here (http://www.mediafire.com/download/9g92mf94sbt2uoa/FirebaseSix_PartTwo_%28Kaled%27s_Tau_Article%29.pdf)), but I could also dig out a draft version from my RIA. (The release version doesn't cover alien weapons yet, but my WIP copy has some of the Eldar and Tau weapons in it).

(The current RIA version makes them a bit more powerful per shot, but instead reigns them by limiting their sustained rate of fire with heat build-up).

i tend to run a pair of tau (a firecaste and an air caste) with Inquisitor Jericho; the story being as she's a radical Xenos she has a selection of Xenos working for her; she had performed services in negotiating a cease-fire wit ha Tau sept so the IMperium and Tau could hold off a Tyranid incursion and she was critical in safeguarding the Ethereal so he allocated an exceptionally loyal  Fire Warrior and an Air caste to her service; plus it allows hte Tau to investigate the Imperium and their operations, travelling with the Inquisitor.
However, seperation from the Tau has begun to raise questions in the Fire Warriors mind...
(http://buildyourimagination.co.uk/minis/conclavesummer14.php?i=00-inquisitor.jpg)

Yeah I actually noticed that when I started digging backwards through the "In the Field" board.


We seem to share a similar taste in some models.
We both have an Orechiel based Inquisitor (Both named Helena?).
We both have a Kal Jericho model
And now we both have a Fire Warrior model.

My warband for that inquisitor is also padded out with a number of ex-guard and/or navy infantry types (allowing for split warbands across a scenario or two).
Not sure how much you've padded out Inquisitor Jericho's one though.
For the record I think we've simply discovered a coincidentally similar path of development, in regards our two respective groups of models in this specific instance, as mine was put together for PO's tournament in... 09? And your went together independent of that for some IGTs if I read the history of those characters correctly.

Hilarious though, if I do say so myself.

Looking at my inquisitor, she's largely of a Thorian bent, in terms of her behaviour.
It's reasonably likely, based on what I can recall of the character I wrote, that she'd pick him up as part of a diplomatic connection - he may have been the last of his particular band from the Tali'serra (sp?). It seems likely that a water caste plus bodyguard was attached to her at some point during efforts to calm the border on the eastern fringe, but her investigations have taken her further afield, and the Fire Warrior's last communication was, as you suggested, to stay with her as part of a "diplomatic" function, which is to say, watch and learn and (if possible) report back for the greater good on what these strange gue'la (gue'el in this case? An Inquisitor is still lower in rank than an Inquisitor Lord, Lord of Terra, or the Emperor) are up to.

i must admit i tend to break the "stay away from canon" rule; i run her as Helena Jericho or Jena Orcheil or whatever name i come up with on the day :)
and Kals' her son hence his inclusion :)

I've actually dug up the character sheets for my warband, led by Inquisitor Helena Corwin.
It was the one used in York Garrison.
Full sheets with (previously) Conclave approved backstory.
Needs two more for my sniper and soldier.
I'm tempted to post up the lot, along with model pictures (one I've painted over the dinged spot in Helena's hair).

Also has two short sheets for my interrogator and Inquisitor. Those need more work (and paint on the minis).

Finally, I dug up a report on the York day - I seemed to run into a lot of AdMech bands. And the ladies in my warband had a predilection for headshots and groin shots. My Rogue Trader always went after the valkyrie if it was on the board. No pictures, sadly.

Okay, so this model has arrived.
I've elected to plonk it onto a proper 40mm base for use in Inquisitor

However - weapons.

Pulse rifle, or pulse carbine?

On the one hand, for my tastes, the rifle is the better of the two - more range.
On the other, i) this is Inquisitor, and ii) the carbine is on the cover of the Fire Warrior game box, and as this model will be added to a warband largely based on computer game/film characters (or amalgamations thereof) and be based on the Eastern Fringe, that makes quite a good case for the carbine.

The rules in the PDF linked earlier put the carbine as range F and the rifle as range H - but those are "spec ops" guns, rather than the standard issue guns clearly used here on this model, so no grenade launcher for the carbine, and I'm not sure the range brackets would work - though I think the damage profile is about spot on for the slightly higher ability of a pulse rifle at least.

It's a combination question of "which looks cooler?" and "which is more appropriate?".

Either way, I can't wait to get him built (and try not to foul up his painting).

Personally, I'd suggest the pulse carbine.

Inquisitor games are often seemingly low-key operations on the surface. Although the games we play tend to escalate, most times an Inquisitor investigates some bloody runes in the underhive or has to escort a VIP, it's fairly quiet. As such, the right balance for a character's gear (if a character isn't going to have several models) is usually somewhere around what they would take on a low to medium risk mission.

The question is somewhere between whether the character would actually want to be carrying around a weighty boltgun (and its ammo isn't feather-light either) if they were expecting to spend several hours searching slums for their missing contact, and how they prepare for the possibility of something going wrong.

Unless your Tau is really likely to feel that a full-size pulse rifle is an essential part of his kit, I'd say the pulse carbine is more likely.

Yeah, that's pretty much what I was thinking as well.

So that answers the modelling question as well (and makes it easier on me as I don't have to carve the carbine in half to stick on the barrel for the rifle) which just leaves a stats question of "what does a normal non-spec ops pulse carbine look like?"

I'd say Range F is reasonable, but Range B would work too - in the 40k game a carbine reaches out to IIRC 18 inches? That's about 36 yards if we double it up for the scale.
Not counting the underslung photon grenade launcher - what does a photon grenade look like anyway? In Tau parlance is it the equivalent of a frag grenade?

I think a carbine is probably more convenient for general use, but it's perfectly fine to make a second model for the same character with a rifle, for high-risk operations or where he is expecting combat.

Quote from: mcjomar on March 20, 2016, 07:30:47 AM
I'd say Range F is reasonable

Range F is good for mid-range carbine style weapons, so I would be inclined to agree there.

Quote from: mcjomar on March 20, 2016, 07:30:47 AM
Not counting the underslung photon grenade launcher - what does a photon grenade look like anyway? In Tau parlance is it the equivalent of a frag grenade?

Well, presumably the photon grenade is the equivalent of a photon flash grenade. The 40k wiki describes hand-held ones as "disk-like".

Ahh okay - so I guess the Tau don't use frags.
Just photon flash and EMP.
As that warband is largely going to be playing around the Eastern Fringe I think, I don't know if that'll make it appropriate for the Tau to be able to re-arm in terms of grenades/ammo - moreso than if he's in the Carthax sector though, right?

I'm not sure if 3d6 is appropriate damage - this is a weapon that is meant to be worse than a bolter at least, even if it isn't necessarily (in inquisitor) as bad as a heavy bolter.
I'd suggest 4d6+4 (the +4 to replicate matching the bolter's AP value in 40k I presume? In which case a +3 or +4 would be appropriate for beating at least flak armour)

Quote from: mcjomar on March 20, 2016, 08:15:33 PMthe +4 to replicate matching the bolter's AP value in 40k I presume?

Speaking as a self-proclaimed expert on Inquisitor weapon profiles: No. The weapon profiles in WH40K are very simplistic and have no more than a passing relationship to Inquisitor weapon profiles.

To pull the Pulse Carbine out of my RIA notes:

Pulse Carbine: Basic; Range F; Sg/Sm(2); 3D10 Fused Damage; Shots 6; Rld [3]; Enc 30

Some of those numbers are open for revision, but that's where it is now. It's quite powerful, and ignores several of the drawbacks of bolters (like their recoil), but is instead limited by a thermal cut-out.
(While there are canonical ammo capacities for Pulse Weapons, I'm partially ignoring that to go for something similar to the guns in the first Mass Effect - an ammo supply high enough to be functionally inexhaustible, but the accelerator array overheats quite fast. They needed something to stop them being completely devastating in game).

Sorry, on the reload - is that 3 actions to reload, 3 shots per action, or (based on the way you worded the ammo count) a 3 turn recharge?
Fire warrior PC game had 32 in mag (it says clip but I think that's just bad translation again) for both rifle and carbine.
Depending on reload rules, I'd suggest upping the shot count, as this is the Tau version of the bolter/lasgun, albeit a shortened version - in which case I'm wondering if range F isn't nearly shortening enough - perhaps B would be better?

for every 6 shots you need 3 actions worth of time before can be fired again

Ahh okay, that's new notation for me, cheers  :)

E: so how does the underslung photon launcher work?

E2: oh here we go from the LRB
auxiliary launcher X E single -15 * 2 X +10
So as photon flash grenades.

Quote from: mcjomar on March 20, 2016, 08:15:33 PM
Ahh okay - so I guess the Tau don't use frags.
Just photon flash and EMP.

I've never seen any canonical example of Tau using other types of grenades, but it doesn't mean they don't. Plasma seems more their style than frag though.

Quote from: MarcoSkoll on March 20, 2016, 09:10:51 PM
Speaking as a self-proclaimed expert on Inquisitor weapon profiles:

Your not just a self proclaimed expert Marco. If I haven't said it before I will say it now; MarcoSkoll is an expert on Inquisitor weapon profiles.*

Quote from: MarcoSkoll on March 20, 2016, 09:10:51 PM
To pull the Pulse Carbine out of my RIA notes:

Pulse Carbine: Basic; Range F; Sg/Sm(2); 3D10 Fused Damage; Shots 6; Rld [3]; Enc 30

Comparing that to your RIA profile for a bolter, it seems suitable and appropriate. Of course it's a powerful weapon, but it should be, and it has clear drawbacks.

Quote from: mcjomar on March 20, 2016, 09:50:48 PM
Sorry, on the reload - is that 3 actions to reload, 3 shots per action, or (based on the way you worded the ammo count) a 3 turn recharge?
Fire warrior PC game had 32 in mag (it says clip but I think that's just bad translation again) for both rifle and carbine.
Depending on reload rules, I'd suggest upping the shot count, as this is the Tau version of the bolter/lasgun, albeit a shortened version - in which case I'm wondering if range F isn't nearly shortening enough - perhaps B would be better?

RIA notation for recharge. Actually I agree with Marco. To quote the 40k wiki**:

Quotepropelling the newly produced plasma out of the gun at an extreme velocity while keeping it cohesive... As it is, residual energy and waste plasma, together with the heat produced by energizing the coil, necessitates two barrels to avoid overheating... allowing higher rates of fire with sufficient heat dispersal... 

While most of that is taken out of context it does indicate that pulse weapons, while better in that regard than Imperial plasma weapons, still suffer from problems with overheating, so a cooling period is appropriate. There is a limit to the number of shots in a magazine, but with the cooldown, it would take a minimum of 21 turns to empty a magazine, so I wouldn't worry about it.

*He does however appear to have too much free time.
**I could quote directly from the Codex but that would require me to walk upstairs, so maybe tomorrow.

Okay, so that's a 3 action recharge.
I guess that sounds reasonable.
Pretty much an entire turn ducking for cover and blowing on the gun (metaphorically speaking, he's wearing a helmet).

Not quite on the recharge. [3] is three shots recharged at the end of any turn the gun isn't fired (so two full turns with no firing to completely recharge six shots). The [square brackets] originally showed up in the Stormtrooper Fanatic article, but I adopted it into the RIA as a faster recharge than the (round parentheses) option.

Lots of EDIT:
You'll see me using quite a lot of RIA terminology here and there; I'd add that "Fused" means the weapon treats cover as 50% higher, rounding down. (It's for projectiles that significantly break apart on initial impact - mostly stuff like explosive bolts, plasma pulses and the like. It's a way of applying at least some drawback to some of the most formidable weapons in the armoury).

QuoteFire warrior PC game had 32 in mag

I'm not sure the video games are necessarily the most accurate source for weapons (for example, Space Marine essentially makes the Meltagun a short range flamethrower. Still, it's very useful in the Exterminatus "horde" mode).

The RIA tends to be a bit flexible about how I interpret exactly which versions of the canon, in any case. Where possible I try to go for the more realistic and/or balance-able interpretations. As at least one version of Tau weapons canonically has some heat build-up, that's both consistent with the level of electrical power needed for linear accelerators and a way of reining them in a bit.
An interpretation that gave them loads of damage, high rate of fire and lots of ammo wouldn't play so well in game!

I'd also personally recommend using the RIA version of Photon Flares, rather than the "Oh god, everyone in three miles has been blinded for some reason" version from the original rulebook, but I am biased.

So a range limiter on the photon effects? Or a gradual dropping off? say, comparable to the range of the launcher?

Actually, I had misunderstood those recharge rules as well*, on account of the fact I have never used them and didn't check on them when posting. In my defence, the only time they appear in the RIA is on power-feed lasweapons. Using the correct rules, it would be possible to empty a 32 round magazine in 15 turns, assuming you get enough actions. Still, I'm in favour of the recharge due to heat buildup. Probably more balanced than a conventional reload.

Quote from: mcjomar on March 21, 2016, 06:25:43 AM
So a range limiter on the photon effects? Or a gradual dropping off? say, comparable to the range of the launcher?

Marco favours a rather different set of rules for photon flash grenades. Taken from the most recent version of the RIA:

QuoteType: Grenade (Rng: E)* Area: 5yd Blast: 6 Dam: X Enc: 5
Any model within the area of effect must take a Toughness test at +30, but with a -10 penalty for each hit taken. On failure and each two degrees of failure, the target is stunned for one turn.
Characters with advanced bionic eyes and/or ears gain a single +20 bonus to this test.
The shockwave can travel around (but not through) terrain, but characters shielded in this way get a +20 bonus.
*Obviously this is for the thrown version and would be modified depending on the launcher, although to be fair, the RIA also uses Rng: E for an auxiliary grenade launcher.

*For some reason, I thought it was like the LRB's recharge.

Well, this is Inquisitor, and not the frontline, so perhaps this is the officer version, or is issued to those attached to various envoy missions/ambassadors/ethereals for those fire warriors who are part of such delegations, in case they are seperated from supply lines for whatever reason.

Makes me think a recharge of [6] or more would be appropriate for the attached photon launcher specific to this model of pulse carbine (or maybe a recharge of 3-6 turns outright?). After all if it's an (essentially) ammo-less gun, then the launcher would logically also be, maybe as an experimental weapon provided by the Earth caste for field testing.


E: semi related question - would a Tau fire warrior be able to maintain their own guns? Know how to recharge/rearm when away from logistics and supply lines usually enjoyed by line troopers?

Quote from: mcjomar on March 21, 2016, 01:53:45 PMperhaps this is the officer version, or is issued to those attached to various envoy missions

That's not really the intention. When I use recharging mechanics, it doesn't mean I think the shot capacity is completely unlimited, but rather that it is not of concern within the course of a game.

That might be because factors limit how fast the weapon can be discharged, or just because it has an insane number of shots in the first place; Given it's very uncommon to see a lasgun need reloading in game, one fed from a backpack supply does not need a number put on it for a game (and said powercells can be easily recharged from power sockets, or even strong sunlight, between games).
Unless it's actually important to track both recharging and a shot count (such as for Imperial plasma guns, which both have relatively low capacities and questionable safety measures), I don't want to complicate things by doing so.

In the case of Tau Pulse weapons, I imagine that the Tau have ultra high capacity batteries, hyper-capacitors or compact fuel cells from which to provide power, as well as thermal energy recovery, half-bridge discharging (potentially even sequentially, driving each coil with the inductance of the last) and the like to maximise the potential efficiency of the system.

To me, that says the shot count of a pulse weapon is probably pretty high, possibly some hundreds or even thousands of shots before either the power cell or magazine* run dry.

*The description of Tau Pulse weapon describes "a particle which breaks down as it leaves the barrel". Given the potentially broad definition of particle, I'm choosing to interpret it as a small metallic fragment (from a large internal supply), which works better than interpreting it as a subatomic particle.

Firstly, subatomic particles don't break down into plasma (that'd be rather like saying "this flour broke down into a cake"). Secondly, the single most energetic subatomic particle we have ever witnessed (usually known as the "Oh-My-God particle") is believed to have been a proton travelling at 0.999999999999999999999995c. This is ludicrously fast, some 40 million times more energetic than is possible with the Large Hadron Collider, but is still "only" about the energy of a thrown baseball; Not exactly the most lethal.

The intention is that this represents a relatively standard pulse carbine. I'm just disagreeing with Fire Warrior as to what the capacity is, partly because that isn't itself even that close to the figures quoted in Imperial Armour. In either case though, those numbers are high enough that a character is all but guaranteed not to exhaust that many shots in one game. (Once overheating, the length of the game, the chance of the character being taken out, the chance of the character having killed everything on the table, etc are taken into account).

QuoteMakes me think a recharge of [6] or more

Again, [6] refers to the number of shots recharged at the end of a turn it's unused. It's not a good idea to track recharge by actions - it just plain doesn't make sense that a gun cools down faster when carried by a lithe assassin than a wounded mutie. (Or not at all, should it be dropped!)

To jump back slightly to the above note, Imperial Armour says the Photon grenade launchers are single shot, with the grenades suitable for either launching or throwing.

QuoteE: semi related question - would a Tau fire warrior be able to maintain their own guns? Know how to recharge/rearm when away from logistics and supply lines usually enjoyed by line troopers?

You'd have to assume that they could to some extent, although how many spare parts they carry is another question.

My lack of imperial armour books is showing here.

QuoteTo jump back slightly to the above note, Imperial Armour says the Photon grenade launchers are single shot, with the grenades suitable for either launching or throwing.

Hmm - from a campaign perspective, that'll prove an interesting one then - how would a tau operating within the imperium as part of an Inquisitor's warband get access to more of these?

If the power source is, to all intents and purposes, infinite and/or rechargeable given access to suitable power sources/materials, that would leave the ammo for a carbine launcher to be the core ammo related supply issue facing such a tau.
Obviously, yes, parts could be an issue.

The only vague solution I could think of is if the inquisitor has a network of operatives within the gue'vesa.
They could, at times, funnel parts, ammo and so on, to her or other parts of the imperium for study (and minor supply of the Tau she has found a use for).
Unless the Tau are using the fire warrior for information gathering, in which case he might occasionally find himself moving to meet suppliers from his own government to acquire equipment, supplies, etc. Or something like that.

Quotehow would a tau operating within the imperium as part of an Inquisitor's warband get access to more of these?

For a few suggestions:

- The Tau is still occasionally being resupplied on his mission.
- The Inquisitor is having them specially made. It is technology the Imperium possesses, so I expect they could be made compatible. (It might even be a cover to closer inspect Tau technology).
- The Inquisitor is having them collected from battlefields. (Although probably isn't telling).
- The Tau has a reasonably large supply (more than he carries on his person), but has still got to be somewhat sparing about them.

I'd be more inclined for the first two rather than the last two as it has the potential for plot hooks, campaigns, and intra-warband dissent.
Which is reasonably likely for any group of people working in close concert - not all happy families all the time.
Especially in the world of Inquisitor.