Quite some time ago I tried to write up a Chaos Librarian who had succumbed to the Obliterator virus. For sheer overkill I also had him in Terminator Armour before the disease progressed. I don't have the sheets in front of me at the moment but if I remember correctly he was pretty devastating. Perhaps an understatement, eh? ;D
Anyway, what sorts of uberpowerful characters have you created and what function do they eventually serve in your campaign?
I'm really intrigued by my Chaos Space Marines codex right now and want to begin converting Raptors as well. I've got the Raptor Aspiring Champion model (standard 40k size of course). Are there any point conversion guidelines on the board here?
Finally the scale difference between standard 40k and Inquisitor, it's a 1:2 ratio correct? So, if I only have standard 40k models presently then I can just halve movement, ranges, etc.?
Quote from: monkhmer on October 08, 2009, 01:11:38 AMAnyway, what sorts of uberpowerful characters have you created and what function do they eventually serve in your campaign?
Uber-powerful, none. A character may be powerful, but they should never be unassailably powerful.
I've got a Space Marine around (mostly for GMing) who is powerful like all Marines are - but as a Marine goes, he's pretty average, nothing to really set him out from another. But, this is the important thing - He
can be beaten.
Personally, I can't see much point in a character as powerful as you've created. Toughness into treble digits, Regenerate and 21 + 3D6 armour? (assuming he had fully succumbed...)
Heck, even the most horrific weapons I know of in Inquisitor would tremble at having to deal with that. The most powerful weapon I know of "in circulation" would have to work hard to do more than one level of injury a shot.
QuoteAre there any point conversion guidelines on the board here?
No, and there never
should be. Inquisitor profiles are not scaled, converted or fudged from 40k profiles. If you need help, then ask - but there are no written guidelines on converting from 40k. Using them would be taking Inq in completely the wrong way.
QuoteFinally the scale difference between standard 40k and Inquisitor, it's a 1:2 ratio correct? So, if I only have standard 40k models presently then I can just halve movement, ranges, etc?
Yes. Most people who play Inq28 either use 1/2" for each "yard", or 1 cm for each "yard". Either is fine.
Emelie.
Well, she's neither finished nor have I written rules for her. But still.
One day when I have the time and materials (might be soon), she'll be finished. Few things would stand a chance while fighting fair.
21+3d6 armour? Regeneration? Obliterator? Don't expect it to last long against Emelie.
I also tried to make an chaos ogryn with a Greater daemon possesed sword (with all those extra damage stuff, + corruptor, making it capable of auto-killing almost everyone with one hit.) and a Dark eldar wych archite to test against Orfei. Neither had a chance against Orfei. (The Ogryn was to slow. The archite however, well, Orfei pulled a pin from a grenade hanging on his chest and charged. After a few actions, he moved up close, and boom goes the grenade, knocking her of her feet (Orfei is undamaged), giving him a chance to kill her).
And the raptor; Make it a Marine with higher I, WS and BS. Also, add a jump pack (Rules in the marine chat article).
I have a 54mm fully converted Solitaire (<3 Robey) and a 54mm Pre-Heresy Marine (<3 Robey), so yes, I have some very powerful NPC characters.
I also have the models, at the correct scale.
I own you. :P
-Ben
It seems like an Obliterator Librarian should be able to autokill a scrub human... right? What's the average Toughness of Joeschmo Imperial citizen? I found the OL's character sheet and it has a Strength of 297. So with Lightning Claws that's at least 25 Strength bonus + 2D10+5... so minimum of 32 points in one swipe. That should kill an average unarmoured citizen right?
I'm just trying to get a feel for the scale of the game compared to the fluff.
Not really. ;D
I like a powerful game sometimes.
Did I mention my Librarian has Teleportation so he could possibly pull off a critical backstab... ? :P
A couple other things.
*Does the Reach of a Large creature increase? It seems like it should but I don't know my way around the rules so well yet.
*And, I hate the Obliterator models. They look terrible. The art in the CSM Codex before the most recent was fantastic. How could you capture that in a model?
It was great to see the Harlie on the tabletop in the pics from the Autumn Conclave, Ben. Sadly, your marine never made it into the Golden Demon, as my work on the terrain for that day consumed all of my available time.
Never fear, though. He remains on my tabletop - temporarily in bits while I bring him up to spec. You should have him back in time for Christmas.
Personally speaking, this year's Big Bad at Games Day was probably the single most powerful character I've ever designed. Although we never got to play out the final scenario in full, thanks to the participation games being wound up early, Geryon of Tyre was a high-end character in full armour, with a daemonglaive and a power fist. However, his real OOT-ness was contained in the fact that he had "lives". In the previous scenario, the AdMech were attempting to bring his tomb online. For each system they brough online, Geryon gained one "life". So in the final scenario, the characters had to kill him, after which he came back to life and they had to kill him again, once for each online system.
As it happened, they only brought one system online but had they managed three or four, Geryon would have been as close to unstoppable as ever a character was.
That abomination would kill almost anything in one hit.
If you put that on the table, I would give you a very serious and harshly worded dressing down about the spirit of the game.
A Chaos Space Marine-Librarian-Terminator-Obliterator?
Have a word with yourself.
-Ben
Typically speaking, I tend not to try to make POWERFUL characters, as I find little enjoyment in that. Instead, I prefer to focus on creating COOL characters, as this makes for a far better narrative and background to the games that the character will feature in.
I do own two marines (One techmarine, and one that I intend to turn into either a Malal CSM, or a Legion of the Damned for Thaddeus to chase around, when I get around to sculpting him...) but I seldom use them for anything more than GM narrative tools.
When I GM and people want to use overpowered characters such as a CSM sorceror/terminator/obliterator, I usually come up with some way to offset their power and make the game more fair. For example, the CSM is in the cargo bay of a space ship, and the characters have to find a way to open the airlock and suck him out into the harshness of space, where he would probably be targeted by the ship's weapons and blasted into tiny pieces. Or instead, if the terrain is available, I might fill the game board with ricketty bridges over lava-filled chasms, or have tiny, narrow passages which only human-sized characters can squeeze through.
Although I tend to discourage players from making extremely powerful characters, I'm perfectly willing to incorporate them into a game if I can think of a way to offset their power.
Tell me more of this Geryon. Would he stand a chance against Emelie from, lets say, 70+ Yards?
I used to use a Vampire as an NPC bad guy, I don't know what I did with the rules but he was powerful and pretty much impervious, I think he was killed eventually by a grenade.
A powerful NPC played well can be a good thing, just as long as he doesn't murder all the players like a psycho.
Uhmmm.... What is Emelie??
Quote from: Serge on October 08, 2009, 03:32:03 PMTell me more of this Geryon. Would he stand a chance against Emelie from, lets say, 70+ Yards?
How should he know? You've given precisely no detail on her besides "Could kill a Chaos Space Marine-Librarian-Terminator-Obliterator very quickly"... which in my opinion, makes the character blatantly stupid. If it can kill something as ridiculously powerful as that with any certainty and speed, it must be even more completely out of the sense of the game.
I get the idea you're almost bragging about the character's power, and that can only mean you've got the wrong end of the stick.
A powerful character is nothing to brag about, because I could go now and write a character who has 200 for every stat, and 20 different skills. Creating a powerful character is nothing to be proud of - it's not hard, and it's not clever.
Creating a character who is
formidable (and whose formability is justified) is one thing, provided they're used the right way.
For example, I wouldn't recommend that most characters tried to take on Frost (from my collection) casually, but while she's a challenge, she is not unstoppable - at least partly because of the way she's played, and when she is used.
I suggest that both of you (Serge & monkhmer) seriously look at the way you're playing the game.
Quote from: monkhmer on October 08, 2009, 01:55:55 PM... so minimum of 32 points in one swipe. That should kill an average unarmoured citizen right?
Aside from the fact that Strength bonus is only applied for each FULL 10 points over 50 (so S 297 is only +24), that wouldn't autokill an average citizen.
A typical citizen has a T of 40 to 50, which means they'd get knocked unconscious, but not killed (obviously excluding decapitation and prolonged damage through bleeding).
I'll bring my hive fleet then gents?? ;D.
Although I do have a (incomplete) GK and a CSM they aren't really there to game with except in exceptional circumstances.
Hence, my most powerful character is likely to be my alien leader which is essentially the 40k hive tyrant model (another favourite of mine). Yet, as a high ranking member of his species he isn't going to risk getting shot at even if he does technically outclass most other characters. Its very important that you use characters as they would actually act if all this was real.
Quote from: Dosdamt on October 08, 2009, 04:14:19 PM
Uhmmm.... What is Emelie??
If I remember correctly, Serge's built-but-unpainted 54mm Baneblade (which I'd love to see finished) although I'd say that my Valkyrie would make short work of something as slow and lumbering as a Baneblade if I hung some nice big weapons from the underwing pylons! ;)
I've got some very powerful characters in my collection - a Necron Pariah, Enslavers, Adeptus Custodes - but so far the only ones of those that I've used in a game are the Enslavers, who helped me to success at last years tournament.
The whole point of Inquisitor falls apart when you have people start to powergame. Thats when you need a GM, to make it fair, and make it fun for everyone. If it's just two of you, a GM isn't essential, if you both trust the other not to powergame.
As for powerful? All my characters are powerful. They have a strong narrative impact on the game and the games style of play, they change my tactics when using them and....
ooops, wrong kind of power. In game terms, all my characters are powerful, in someway or another, some useful trait. But none of them have no weaknesses, it'd be really boring were that the case.
Inquisitor as a Game also falls down with too many stats over 100. System isn't really designed with that in mind.
Everyone has told me that Inquisitor Marius Dire is over-powered, due to the fact that he has Power Armour, a Power Fist and a Bolt Pistol with a reload and 3 Inferno Rounds. Dont know why he is over powered, as he was once almost decapitated by an Imperial Guardsman with an eviscerator. so no hes not over-powered, just very much a Kick-Ass character.
the idea of the game is to create, not an uber model, but someone that has cool, calculated potential!
When i designed Interrogator Davlire Freed, he is a basicly a younger, under-powered version of a character ive always wanted to build. This means that in campaign terms, i can keep him going until i feel the need to make the Uber mini i want him to be. Not powerful in stats, just an awesome mini
Kerby
Quote from: psycho on October 08, 2009, 09:10:09 PM
Everyone has told me that Inquisitor Marius Dire is over-powered, due to the fact that he has Power Armour, a Power Fist and a Bolt Pistol with a reload and 3 Inferno Rounds. Dont know why he is over powered, as he was once almost decapitated by an Imperial Guardsman with an eviscerator. so no hes not over-powered
Just because it's possible to beat a character doesn't mean he isn't over-powered. In this game it's possible for a small child to beat a marine if the child gets in four quick slaps to the head, that doesn't make the marine any less powerful.
Quote from: psycho on October 08, 2009, 09:10:09 PMDon't know why he is over powered, as he was once almost decapitated by an Imperial Guardsman with an eviscerator.
It's not about being beaten once (and even that depends on whether the Guardsman's statline was reasonable). It's about the character's overall performance.
Your character has the some of the best armour in the game, one of the most powerful ranged weapons in the game and one of the most powerful close combat weapons (as well as hexagrammic wards).
He also has five stats of 81+. Compare that to the five characters I rotate through my normal warband, who only have three stats of 81+
between them - and one of those is only due to a bionic arm.
I don't quite get why you can't see that that level of power really isn't "standard". You're probably going to tell me "But he's exceptional", but almost ALL Inquisitor characters are already exceptional.
;D
OK, back to my lame argument for overpowering a character for sake of scale. In the fluff, Horus stabs his Lighting Claw through an armoured female human and she is dead dead dead. Why wouldn't an Obliterator Librarian in Terminator Armour be able to do the same? Is it because he was a Primarch?
I now understand that the game isn't meant for stats like that. How might one tailor it to do so? For instance if I wanted to have a group of Grey Knights hunting daemons or a Deathwatch Xenos Killteam going after some Tyranid or Necrontyr?
I've read Ravenor and Eisenhorn and duly appreciate the cyberpunk aspect of Inquisitor but there's also the epic ass-kicking side that 40k does so abstractly that it really isn't fun. At least not for me. I was hoping Inquisitor might be able to do that.
How I would tailor the game for those encounters - Round all stats up to the nearest 100. Divide all stats by 100. Apply the 40k rules as I would suggest you go and play Killteam. Really. If you're looking for small groups of SM killing select targets etc etc - you need Killteam.
Inquisitor is all about the detail - the gritty encounters. The down and dirty business of keeping the Imperium safe from the clutches of various, nefarious types. The grappling on the floor, splashing in puddles, last ditch efforts to waylay the bomb / kidnap the contact / prevent a catastrophe world of 40k.
If the CSM-Lib-Term-Obl Lightning Clawed anyone, my assumption is that they would be dead dead dead. I am quite certain that any average damage with the ridiculous minimum damage would kill most things.
But, quite seriously - if your attitude to Inquisitor is going to be "OMG WOH WUD WIN IN A FIYT BETWIN HORYUS AND EMP IN INQUIS?" you really are in the wrong place. Go back to 40k, be amongst your own people. It's fine.
However, if you're willing to learn about Inquisitor, the realm in which the game operates, then be prepared to be welcomed with open arms.
-Ben
Quote from: monkhmer on October 09, 2009, 11:05:41 AM
Why wouldn't an Obliterator Librarian in Terminator Armour be able to do the same? Is it because he was a Primarch?
I don't think anyone is suggesting that an Obliterator Librarian in Terminator Armour shouldn't ought to be hugely powerful (although, just because a character can kill someone with one hit, doesn't mean it should be automatic - this is a game after all), they're suggesting that such a character has no place in most games of
Inquisitor. That all said, if you make an awesome 54mm model of a hugely powerful character then people will probably be queuing up to play you to to have a go at taking him down (and a good GM will give them every chance to succeed!).
QuoteHow might one tailor it to do so? For instance if I wanted to have a group of Grey Knights hunting daemons or a Deathwatch Xenos Killteam going after some Tyranid or Necrontyr?
If you want to tailor the game so it is mainly based around those sorts of epic encounters, I'd look at lowering everyone's stats so the game is still fun - so for example instead of strength 100 being the human maximum, make it the maximum for a marine. That way, you don't have the problem of it almost being pointless rolling the dice because it's almost a foregone conclusion that a character will pass any test they're called on to make.
Or go play Killteam. Or use a combination of Necromunda and 2nd Ed 40k rules. They might be a better starting point for such games.
Remember also that games of
Inquisitor work best with 3-4 models per side and no more than about 10-12 on the table at once. The games slows to a crawl if you have more than that many and so isn't suited for squad vs horde games (unless you're in a position to play games that go on for several days).
But Obliterators generate Terminator armour anyway, and are probably too insane to use psychic powers, so a Terminator armour-wearing Librarian infected with the Obliterator virus would just become a standard Obliterator... ::)
Like other people have said though, Inquisitor is primarily made a game featuring cinematic conflict between humans. You don't add in Obliterators and stuff like that more than once in a blue moon, simply because the system starts to break down if you do, and everyone else gets frustrated about your Uber-character wading through everyone else invulnerably. Imagine the character as equivalent to turning up to a Necromunda campaign and wanting to use a squad of Deathwing in their Land Raider Crusader. It's an almost forgone conclusion that you're going to win and mess everyone else's gangs up in the process.
Space Marines are bad enough. Believe me, one of the first models I made was a Captain with a power fist and storm bolter, and every time he's come out, he's single-handedly achieved his objective while dropping everyone else and coming out virtually unscathed. If I wasn't so happy with the conversion, I'd redo him. Equally though, I'm going to make a really nasty Chaos Marine for an end of campaign bad guy, which is really where power-armoured hulks belong.
Still, please don't let this put you off - Inquisitor is a great game when you aren't trying to force it to be Kill Team or 40k. Necromunda... Well, I'd love to do a small Necromunda-style campaign with Inquisitor rules, but I still have to convince my mates I could make it work! ;D
Quote from: monkhmer on October 09, 2009, 11:05:41 AMIn the fluff, Horus stabs his Lighting Claw through an armoured female human and she is dead dead dead.
Inquisitor's rules aren't the fluff. Nor are they a 100% depiction of reality.
Laspistols are exceptionally dangerous in the fluff - one shot can easily be fatal. However, in Inquisitor, it can take 5 or 6 shots to simply knock a character unconscious with one.
What you need to bear in mind is that in the fluff, a weapon's power is defined by the needs of the plot. If the author needs a character to survive a plasma gun shot for the plot to work, then they'll survive it.
Similar thing with the accuracy of anyone involved. If their target needs to survive, then they'll miss. Main characters are naturally hard to kill.
It's a similar thing with Inquisitor, except Inquisitor assumes EVERY character on the table is a main character, so in most cases, a single hit, regardless of the weapon, is seldom enough to prove fatal.
Even a single head shot would need to do 3*BIV+1 damage to prove fatal in one shot, and that can demand damage even a bolter is unlikely to do in one.
QuoteI now understand that the game isn't meant for stats like that. How might one tailor it to do so?
Like Kaled suggests, then scale the overall stats/damage so that the character's stats are all within the 0-100 scale (even the Marines). It's stats of over 100 that break the game if they are present in anything other than the sparsest quantities.
Quote from: MarcoSkoll on October 09, 2009, 04:12:01 PM
It's a similar thing with Inquisitor, except Inquisitor assumes EVERY character on the table is a main character, so in most cases, a single hit, regardless of the weapon, is seldom enough to prove fatal.
Even a single head shot would need to do 3*BIV+1 damage to prove fatal in one shot, and that can demand damage even a bolter is unlikely to do in one.
For this reason I migrated to Dark Heresy. Sure, it's still not especially easy to kill a guy in one shot with a bolter, but it's a hell of a lot easier than Inquisitor's system (which, for want of a better expression, has characters that might as well be steel eggshells)
That, and everything is as lethal as it's meant to be; not so for Inquisitor, where characters can survive a direct hit from weapons designed to blow up tanks (multi-melta, lascannon)
Yeh Marco the rules on here are the old ones, before i realised that characters that are "powerful" arent fun to game with. Hes a character that doesnt come out much, although when he does i must say he is generally accompanied by a Savant and Marius' faithful Cherubim. The armour i can understand, but in 40k it seems everyone has a bolt weapon anyway, read any of the Gaunt's Ghosts novels or Gav Thorpes Last Chancers and youll see an abundance of Bolt Weaponry. Now i know INQ isnt the Fluff but surely if its ok for the dudes that write the fluff then it must be ok for an extremely zealous, fire toting, Emperor fearing Witch Hunter that simply wants to rid the galaxy of every single Witch, Psyker (human or not) and basically anything that threatens his Imperium.
Kerby
Quote from: psycho on October 09, 2009, 08:56:35 PMNow i know INQ isnt the Fluff but surely if its ok for the dudes that write the fluff then it must be ok for an extremely zealous, fire toting, Emperor fearing Witch Hunter that simply wants to rid the galaxy of every single Witch, Psyker (human or not) and basically anything that threatens his Imperium.
Different contexts. The novel series' you mention deal with front-line combat units - Imperial Guard forces for whom the supply of effective munitions is a necessity. Further, they tend to deal with the 'heroes' of those units, the ones who are most likely to obtain powerful weaponry like bolt pistols (commissars and officers are not a representative sample of the population when determining whether or not a weapon is commonplace) rather than the billions of tonnes of ambulatory meat that make up the rest of the regiment...
Beyond that, Inquisitors and their staff are different - they aren't inherently soldiers, though they may be warriors. What might be desirable to own for a Guardsman still within his regiment is not necessarily so for a servant of the Inquisition, even one who was formerly a Guardsman himself.
Bolt Weapons are expensive to maintain, expensive to supply, bulky and none-too-subtle. When you need to shoot an Ork in the face and have the resources of the Departmento Munitorum to supply you with ammunition, it's great. When you're undercover for months or years on end, working your way through criminal fraternities and seditious groups to find the particular heretic you're looking for... you might want something a little more subtle. Alternatively, you might simply want to do things in a more personalised manner, favouring the reliability of the laspistol tucked into your belt to help out when the grox-dung strikes the atmospheric recycler, or the simplicity and familiarity of the customised revolvers you've been using for over a decade.
On a similar note, it's always worth considering a character's equipment within the context of his background, even if only in a cursory manner. Rare equipment in particular should often have at least the barest hint of a story behind it - why does this character have a power sword? Of what significance is this bolt pistol? Was the sword a gift from a Tech-Priest you assisted decades before, the bolt pistol a relic from an old crusade centuries before, wielded by a now-sainted hero?
Many items, particularly the powerful ones, in the Imperium outlast their owners by a significant amount. Weapons and armour are passed from owner to owner... they shouldn't just be thrown onto a character 'just because'. Especially when dealing with the Astartes, for whom the legacies of their wargear are of vast importance, considering the reasons behind a choice of equipment is not a matter to be ignored.
Quote from: Koval on October 09, 2009, 06:29:08 PMnot so for Inquisitor, where characters can survive a direct hit from weapons designed to blow up tanks (multi-melta, lascannon).
Perfectly possible in 40k as well, I would note, on a wound roll of 1.
Yes, Inquisitor's weapons aren't as powerful as they should really be to be "realistic", but like I said above, Inquisitor is not a depiction of reality, it's a depiction of a "Hollywood reality".
Quote from: psycho on October 09, 2009, 08:56:35 PMThe armour i can understand, but in 40k it seems everyone has a bolt weapon anyway, read any of the Gaunt's Ghosts novels or Gav Thorpes Last Chancers and you'll see an abundance of Bolt Weaponry.
I'll be echoing N01H3r3 a little here, but I will add that when you're on a 40k battlefield, you can almost count on using your weapon, justifying its weight.
Inquisitors do find themselves in sticky situations, but they're not in a warzone. They'd be stupid not to carry a weapon, but a weapon as bulky as a bolter is a lot to carry around on the unlikelihood they'll need it. And that's not just need a
weapon, that's need a
bolter. The number of situations where a bolter is necessary (and where a stubber wouldn't do) are few and far between.
On the note of subtlety, Inquisitor Skoll's equipment is low key enough to allow him to walk into almost any building without raising a big fuss. He can investigate subtly, because he doesn't look all that out of place in most places, be it in a casual bar or walking around a government building.
People would see Inquisitor Dire from a mile off. (Obligatory quoting of PrecinctOmega's Inquisitor Haiku:
Power armoured tank! Force halberd and storm bolter! Your informant flees...) In other words, he would look out of place almost everywhere except a battlefield.
Marius Dire is more a "Battlefield Inquisitor" than the normal "Dark Shadows Inquisitor". Yes, I have no doubt that such Inquisitors exist, but they're far more likely to be found leading a vast army than skulking in shadows. So really, more of a thing for 40k than for Inquisitor.
Quote from: MarcoSkoll on October 09, 2009, 11:31:43 PM
Quote from: Koval on October 09, 2009, 06:29:08 PMnot so for Inquisitor, where characters can survive a direct hit from weapons designed to blow up tanks (multi-melta, lascannon).
Perfectly possible in 40k as well, I would note, on a wound roll of 1.
You know what I meant. In 40K you can probably say it wasn't a proper hit -- it just frazzled the target's hair and maybe burned his ear off as it went past, or for something bigger, it just skimmed off an armour plate or something and amounted to very little. Not enough to incapacitate, certainly not enough to burn straight through (which, let's face it, is what a direct lascannon hit
should do to a human, on top of partial or total atomisation)
Obligatory emoticon, (http://i37.tinypic.com/idapfn.jpg)
Quote from: Koval on October 10, 2009, 07:49:09 AM
Quote from: MarcoSkoll on October 09, 2009, 11:31:43 PM
Quote from: Koval on October 09, 2009, 06:29:08 PMnot so for Inquisitor, where characters can survive a direct hit from weapons designed to blow up tanks (multi-melta, lascannon).
Perfectly possible in 40k as well, I would note, on a wound roll of 1.
You know what I meant. In 40K you can probably say it wasn't a proper hit -- it just frazzled the target's hair and maybe burned his ear off as it went past, or for something bigger, it just skimmed off an armour plate or something and amounted to very little. Not enough to incapacitate, certainly not enough to burn straight through (which, let's face it, is what a direct lascannon hit should do to a human, on top of partial or total atomisation)
Obligatory emoticon, (http://i37.tinypic.com/idapfn.jpg)
Same in Inquisitor.
A hit in the arm that doesn't do much damage can be a bullet flying by, scratching the skin and jacket in true hollywood fashion.
A crit to the head that kills outright, however, deserves to be called a critical hit.
And my warband has only one boltweapon. (An executioner-pistol), The inq however has a paladins shield, which is slightly less sneaky than power armour, right? Well, you'll hear him before you'll see him, since he's more of a faith-mongering orator than a warrior, even if he's a 7ยด0" beefcake.
And I am no powergamer. Emelie is but a GM tool to annoy powergamers. She's just more awesome than an orbital strike (model wise, but than again, I haven't seen any interstellar inq.scale spaceships yet).
Quote from: Serge on October 10, 2009, 09:32:21 AM
Same in Inquisitor.
A hit in the arm that doesn't do much damage can be a bullet flying by, scratching the skin and jacket in true hollywood fashion.
A crit to the head that kills outright, however, deserves to be called a critical hit.
Not arguing about that, I'm arguing about a hit from a sufficiently powerful weapon that does a fair amount of damage and
still leaves its target very much alive. Take a lascannon in this setting, which has 4D10 damage as the rulebook wants it, and fire it at a character like Sergeant Stone. Short of a Crippling head shot, you're not going to kill him
at all if he's starting from full health. Average damage will be around 22 from 4D10, which would still cause him a serious injury, but he'd still be breathing, and possibly even getting back up for another go when logically he should have a giant smoking hole bored straight through him.
This has been argued back and forth hundreds of times, and as it is, we still have the slap-to-the-head situation almost creating a paradox with the lascannon example, with no in-system* solution in sight until INQ2 comes out.
*By which I mean, at the moment I'd rather run a game using Dark Heresy or GURPS. The Inquisitor system is a fair starting point but just falls behind really quickly.
Quote from: Serge on October 10, 2009, 09:32:21 AM
but than again, I haven't seen any interstellar inq.scale spaceships yet.
I'll just bring my housebus along then? ;D
Quote from: Koval on October 10, 2009, 07:49:09 AMWhich, let's face it, is what a direct lascannon hit should do to a human, on top of partial or total atomisation.
Let's face the more important fact. Anti-tank weapons really have little place on the Inquisitor table, based on the fact there are no tanks (well, almost ALL the time). The fact they were included in the rulebook at all is a mystery in its own right.
Personally, I'd've been quite happy to leave all of that stuff out of the Revised Armoury. Of course, that would have left me with later problems... so there are an assortment of "light" heavy weapons.
I do have an alternate (more realistic) damage system I wrote a while ago, complete with a damage table that has a vast heap of hit locations (various vital organs included).
However, it's more suitable for a computer game than a tabletop game, because it's a bit too much to easily keep track of.
I believe that INQ2 should be the end to all our complaints, as long as the characters section gets a revamp to lol
kerby
Quote from: Serge on October 10, 2009, 09:32:21 AMAnd I am no powergamer. Emelie is but a GM tool to annoy powergamers. She's just more awesome than an orbital strike (model wise, but than again, I haven't seen any interstellar inq.scale spaceships yet).
.... yet ;)
Quote from: psycho on October 10, 2009, 08:53:00 PMI believe that INQ2 should be the end to all our complaints, as long as the characters section gets a revamp to lol
Someone is going to have to explain this to me someday. How did "LOL" become a standard way of ending sentences? "Laugh Out Loud" seems an odd thing to finish every second thought with.
it's just an alternative to typing "ha ha ha" or some-such similar thing
I think its a result of the "you said something, that when viewed by a delusional paranoiac from another city through a telescope, might be insulting, I will now say things about your sexuality, gender and family" phenomenon of the internet - it tells people you don't in any way mean it to be insulting.
So, has anyone tried grafting the combat system from Dark Heresy onto Inq? Is there a print summary of Inq 2.0 that I could look at for combat, etc.? I went to Robey's blog but found it a bit less than reader friendly (I'm not much a blog person I think).
[btw, I didn't realize Robey was Precinct Omega. Nice write up on the Terminator virus Robey. If that is the caliber of writing that will be in Inq. 2.0 I am indeed excited.]
Does anyone know what the combat system, or anything really about the new Rogue Trader? I'm waiting on the .PDF version as I live in Korea and ordering a book that price would incur customs charges.
I just dusted off my old copy of Rogue Trader (the original one) and took a trip down memory lane. Much simpler times they were. I like the stats of Inquisitor more though it seems a little reminiscent of R. Talsorian's Cyberpunk 2019, especially the combat system they used... Friday Night Firefight I believe. Inquisitor reminds me of that with skills and psychic powers grafted onto it. Just a little bit of a tweak here and there to allow for a greater range of characters and a slightly more realistic combat system would be nice.
Fellowship would be nice too. Which reminds me, whatever happened with the 40k Critical Hit system? Is that still around?
What about Killteam? I've never seen a copy of that.
http://www.forgeworld.co.uk/pdf/kill-team-part1.pdf (http://www.forgeworld.co.uk/pdf/kill-team-part1.pdf)
http://www.forgeworld.co.uk/pdf/kill-team-part2.pdf (http://www.forgeworld.co.uk/pdf/kill-team-part2.pdf)
There you go. ;)
Regarding critical hits, if you mean the "roll more than one 6 in close combat and get a bonus to your score", they did away with that with the advent of 3rd edition when they rejigged the close combat mechanics into "we all hit you, then you alll hit us".
I'd like to throw a spanner in the works by mentioning that I've never played a Killteam game in which the goons haven't been ground into the dirt. Frankly, I highly doubt the system was seriously playtested
Tullio
Funny, I've never played a game of Kill Team in which the heroes wouldn't at the very least have all died once completing their mission - and in most cases, did so before completing said mission. I wonder if you're playing it right?
However, dragging the topic sort of back on to the subject, don't expect to see INQ2 as the solution to all your problems when it comes to characters.
I'll write about this in more detail in due course, but the characters section is geared towards what I consider "entry level" characters. It's still possible to design some real monsters, of course, but what I consider to be "exotic" archetypes just aren't catered-for. Space Marines aren't in there. Daemons aren't in there. Aliens aren't in there and - controversially - Tech-priests aren't in there, either.
For those with Mechanicus characters, you'll be able to put together get-you-by characters with the rules as presented. But the plan is to produce three follow-on expansion packs (probably under the Dark Magenta title, rather than through Specialist Games): one for Marines, one for Chaos and one for the Mechanicus. Each will present entirely new ways of approaching character design.
Rather than bionics being an upgrade to a Mechanicus character (as they are in the INQ2 rules), they will be a rather more organic (pun intended) part of the character - those of you with Dark Heresy will have a good idea of what I mean.
R.