The Conclave

Since the conclave went down I haven't really thought about inquisitor much, having spent my time for GW on warhammer, but now I have finished my Orc and Goblin army I feel like it's time to get back into INQ. Anyway I always wanted a Rogue trader warband, a character with a phase sword and to get the thorian model, so I thought I'd combine all 3 into one character to get myself back into INQ. So I present for your comment and criticism the warband I am currently building; a rogue trader who is an unsanctioned telepath, his bionic bodyguard and a gambling addicted sage.


Yonnur Frum is the second son of a rogue trader and though he isn't covered by his father's hereditary charter, his father used his influences to get Yonnur non hereditary letters of marquee. Still a young man Yonnur is becoming increasingly notorious as a dangerous and powerful man, a useful reputation to have for trading but less so when you are an unsanctioned telepath who doesn't want to be scrutinised by the inquisition. A habitual cheater and eccentric renegade Frum is somewhat fortunate in that his telepathy is well hidden in the traits common to most rogue traders, however his fear of the inquisition leads him to spend very little time at all in imperial space. In his travels Frum has set himself up as a demigod among many of primitive human and Xenos planets he has made first contact with, another thing that wouldn't look great to any investigating inquisitors.

Despite his risk taking nature Frum happens to be extremely lucky and quite talented too and has managed not to be executed by the inquisition yet, much to his steadily increasing surprise and suspicion. In addition to worrying about the inquisition Frum is acutely afraid of daemonic possession, and is perpetually increasing his personal collection of trinkets and artefacts said to repel daemons. Currently his collection is one of the largest of any individual, rivalling those of some high ranking Malleus inquisitors, whist this in itself is something that may attract the attention of the inquisition Frum considers that the more attractive option to daemonic possession anyway. In addition to his talismans Frum has had many tattoos of symbols said to be anathema to the daemonic, not only from human cultures but xenos too. Whilst his Xenos tattoos could be considered exceptionally heretical by the Ordo Xenos, Frum reasons that since the Ordo Hereticus would take exception to his unsanctioned telepathic powers and the Ordo Malleus probably wouldn't like his hoard of daemonic wards it makes little difference to risk the ire of another Ordo.

In reality Frum's continued existence isn't totally due to luck, but rather an inter-ordo cell of inquisitors who follow Frum's exploits and try to keep word of them from reaching other inquisitors. Reasoning that Frum would react immaturely to the knowledge that he is being manipulated by the inquisition, the cell continues to operate in secret, studying his remarkable lack of corruption and using him as a reliable source of alien technology and ancient artefacts.

Yonnur Frum
WS 68
BS 59
S  62
T 55
I 58
Wp 72
Sg 67
Nv 69
Ld 80
Sp 4

Equipment: C'tan phase sword, pentagrammic wards, shiruken catapult (+1 reload, laser sight), re-breather.

Abilities: rock steady aim, feint, left handed.

Psychic powers: mind scan, enforce will, psychic shriek, distraction.

Armour: 2 on all locations apart from head.


Vori Kraye was once a low ranking member of Frum's private army responsible for keeping order in an uninteresting series of passageways and residential sections on Frum's flagship. The residential sections were for low level managers and other slightly privileged workers who rarely got into trouble. Despite her easy posting Kraye stayed sharp and maintained impressive physical fitness, which was fortunate because an administrative error had her selected for a planetary expedition in place of a demolitions expert called Vorn Claye.

On the expedition to the camp of a blood axe mercenary warboss with the intention of trading explosives for precious minerals, the camp was attacked by a local ork tribe intent on looting. In the pandemonium a crude grenade was thrown into the expedition's shuttle. The grenade blast triggered the explosives to detonate in a fairly catastrophic explosion that killed all the security except for Kraye who miraculously survived albeit severely wounded. Despite being almost totally blind, low on blood, suffering from internal bleeding and lacking a right arm Kraye managed to find Frum unconscious but otherwise unscathed and drag him away from the still fighting orks to a position from where they could be safely extracted.  

After Kraye's heroic resilience in saving his life Frum promoted Kraye to the position of his personal bodyguard, since the former holder of the position had been transformed into an aerosol during the morning's disastrous expedition. Although the snap decision could have possibly been made because he wasn't thinking strait after taking a blow to the head, Frum found Kraye to be an excellent bodyguard and hasn't regretted his decision.

Vori Kraye
WS 49
BS 65
S  30 (75)
T 57
I 56
Wp 52
Sg 48
Nv 79
Ld 51
Sp 4

Equipment: Pulse carbine (+2 reload), average bionic right lung, advanced bionic left eye (motion predictor), average bionic right arm (S45), shock maul, bionic ears, laspistol (+ reload).

Abilities: True grit, hipshooting, right handed, blind in right eye.  

Armour: 3 on all locations except for right arm and head.


Rolamus Waff was a gambling addict whose knowledge of statistics and exceptional memory made him a wealthy man. With his exceptional mental abilities used for gambling Waff had never unintentionally lost before meeting Frum. With his telepathy Frum used Waff's mind against him and took everything Waff had and more. With no choice but to join Frum's crew to pay his massive debt Waff originally became Frum's accountant but soon took up more and more roles. Waff found his new life to be even more exciting than gambling, with his help Frum's profits were exponentially increased. Though Waff's debts were soon paid he elected to remain a member of Frum's crew, receiving a position of power and a cut of the profits that dwarfed what he could have made as a gambler.

Waff fulfils the role of a sage who tracks Frum's accounts, documents the alien life discovered in Frum's explorations, experiments with xenos technology that no mechanicus would go near, translates human and xenos languages when needed.

Rolamus Waff
WS 41
BS 45
S  41
T 43
I 55
Wp 62
Sg 88
Nv 59
Ld 56
Sp 4

Equipment: Digi needler, pocket laspistol, MIU spook injector (2 doses), medi pack, re-breather, 1 hunter skull (bio scanner), Gun skull (needle pistol with stun), grenade skull (4 blind grenades).

Abilities: medic, right handed.

Armour: nil

Rules
Grenade skull – the grenade skull is an unusual variety of servo skull which carries 4 grenades. The grenade skull can move away from the controller in the same manner as a cyber-eagle, since it isn't large enough to incorporate a launcher the grenades are simply dropped from the skull. When dropping a grenade the grenade is scattered d6 inches from the centre of the skull's base, if the skull dropped the grenade as part of a combined action with moving then move the grenade a further D3 inches in the same direction as the skull moved after scattering. If you roll a 'hit' whilst scattering the grenade the release mechanism has jammed and the grenade's effects are resolved from the centre of skull's base.

http://www.the-conclave.co.uk/forum/index.php?topic=362.0 - How Frum came upon his Phase sword.

Edit- added armour and shock maul.
Edit2- lots of minor stat and equipment alterations.

Okay, lets have look see,

Yonnur Frum:
Interesting, I like the backstory, him being an unsanctiond psycher is made p for by the fact that it actually seems to worry him. I'd like to hear more of the Inquisition's involvement though, as it would come into play when the character interacts with other players inquisitors.

Stats seem reasonable, Equipment though, Bolt pistol and Phase Sword? I'd say loose the Bolt Pistol, he has the Shuriken, and it fits better, the Bolter is big, bulky, and expensive to run, requiring he gets Imperial supplies and such like fairly often. I take it the Familiar represents those of his talismans that actually work?


Vori Kraye:
I like this character alot. All I will say is as a Body Guard, shouldn't she have some Armour (to take the bullets on) and a close combat weapon would be prudent. Maybe a Shock Maul or something like that?


Rolamus Waff:
Again, a brilliant character concept, and a good exploration of what a savant character would do, if they weren't a good two shoes emperor botherer :). 

I love the Grenade Skull. Where did he get them though? Or are they actually alien devices?

First and foremost, you're going to have to do a far better job of justifying the wildly diverse kit you're band's got than just saying "As a rogue trader, he meets aliens."

The shuriken catapult would either be a mechanicus copy (requiring decent AdMech contacts), an Eldar weapon converted to use for humans (unlikely and requiring extremely friendly contact with the Eldar), or a weapon that works in a similar way bought from one of these many nameless alien races that he trades with.
I'd go for the latter; Atarian Blade Thrower - Counts as Shuriken Catapult.

Tau weapons are a little more likely, since they're a big trading empire anyway, but the C'Tan phase sword is incredibly rare (incredibly) - worthy of a little story in it's own right as to how he acquired it.

This all assumes that the stats and equipment are roughly on the level for your gaming group, which I assume they are, and since you used to play ][ you know how powerful bolt weapons are.

Otherwise

Thanks for the feedback so far.

I forgot about the armour its now edited in for Frum and Kraye, also I gave Kraye a shock maul as per recommendation. How do you think I should represent Kraye having 1 advanced bionic eye and the other being blind in rules terms?

I understand about the bolt weapon, I wasn't sure about including it on the grounds of overpower vs coolness, that's the reason I took the less powerful stalker silenced shells even though he isn't going to gain much palpable advantage from the stealth. Is there any way I can make it weaker to keep it, perhaps making it single mode only, 5 shots and reload 3? If not then it's gone.

The pentagrammic wards represent the talismans that actually work. The familiar was going to be a parrot just because of the nautical theme and because killing it is quite a cool way for other characters to deal damage to Frum. But if that doesn't outweigh the unlikeness of having a familiar (apart from psyber eagles where do psykers get familiars?) then I'll happily bin the idea.

I was thinking of the shiruken catapult as the Eldar variety, I know they are fired by psychic power of the owner or something, but then they aren't uncommon in the hands of humans in fluff. There was a story in the Catachan codex or in WD around when it came out about a Catachan sergeant who is smuggling Eldar weapons for sale in the Imperium and is confronted by a commissar. Also human mercenaries use Eldar weapons in the books Scourge The Heretic and Innocence Proves Nothing. Then again if humans without super friendly relations with the Eldar using shiruken catapults is a conclave no-no then I'll drop the idea.

I just thought of the grenade skull as either a rare but not unique servo skull variant or alternatively something any techpreist could knock together on request. The mechanism and required software would probably be simpler than a gun or combat skull and certainly simpler than a med skull.

I'll get to writing up a little bit more background for Frum, I kept it briefer than i would have because I didn't want to bore people with walls of text.

Edit- Spelling.

Quote from: Uilleam on November 21, 2009, 04:59:33 PMHow do you think I should represent Kraye having 1 advanced bionic eye and the other being blind in rules terms?

I treat loss of binocular vision as doubled penalties (not bonuses) for reach differences in close combat.

This is in contrast to GW's own solution of doubled range penalties for shooting - which makes little sense, as binocular vision only really determines distance of reasonably close objects.

QuoteIs there any way I can make it weaker to keep it, perhaps making it single mode only, 5 shots and reload 3? If not then it's gone.

Refer to the Revised Inquisitor Armoury. The bolters in there have been adjusted to have some caveats to balance their power.

I like them lots. Much of my feedback has been said. Forgive any repetition.

Frum
I feel that he doesn't suffer any of the problems of unsactioned psykers. I really like his fear of the inquisition and perchant for anti daemon paraphernalia that explains why these threats don't get him, but there are others. As a psyker of reasonable power there is going to be negative affects on his sanity for example.

The other background issue I had is that he doesn't seem important enough to have a full on cell of inquisitors manipulating him. Maybe one or two, but surely there are enough threats to the imperium that half a dozen of them concentrating on one, albeit exceptional, guy, is excessive.

His stats are appropriate, a competant shot, with a bit more expertise in close combat. S and T demonstrate his relative youth and physical activity, I could proberbly be 5 or 10 points higher on the same grounds. Mental stats are higher than they might be, Wp is necessarily high as it is also psychic strength, but he is remarkably smart, even for one of high birth, and I'd have expected a drain on Sg from his unsanctionedness too. His Nv isn't seem that it should be all that high from the background but it is very respectable in the statline. A high Ld is to be expected from his birth and position, I'd maybe have gon mid 70's but 82 isn't excessive.

His kit on the other hand... TheNephew is right that how he got the phase sword would need explaining in the backstory, but otherwise I'm all for it. The issue with the bolt pistol isn't so much the availibility or even the power level, more the practicality (Bolt pistols are too big and heavy to reasonably pass as a sidearm to anyone smaller than a space marine) and that the only place to get them would be the imperium. The former issue can be solved by the revised inquisitor armoury (found here http://www.the-conclave.co.uk/forum/index.php?topic=33.0 (http://www.the-conclave.co.uk/forum/index.php?topic=33.0)) as Marco Skoll has made rules for a bolt pistol light (smaller magazine and lighter) as well as some non-standard non-automatic bolt weapons (though they aren't pistols so might not work alongside the shuriken catapult). In my opinion the bigger issue is that to get a bolt weapon keep in bolt ammo he'd need a contact in the admech or something, that would require special trips into imperium space he would rather avoid. A more common laspistol or autopistol would be much less riskey, and as it is his secondary weapon, not much of a drop in firepower. The shuriken catapult conversion to be useable by humans seems like just the sort of thing that Rolamus Waff would experiment with, so I say go with it, though I'm not sure why he would bolt a range finder onto a super rapid fire, short ranged weapon. It wouldn't be very useful, despite in game it effectively doubling the effective range. I'm strongly against it as keeping it would be for the player's in game advantage over what the character would choose. A laser sight would be more appropriate.
What is the effect of the familiar?

I recon powers like demoralise, and esspecially mesmerism would suit him very well. I could see him mesmerising an opponat at cards, though it is really just an extended version of destraction I suppose. I'd have thought he'd have basic telepaty but quite like that he doesn't, it keeps his power more subtle. Enforce will goes against this a bit, but it isn't like protracted mind control, and his Wp isn't outrageous, so I thing it suits him too.
I'm not so sure about rocksteady aim, or feint though. Firstly, I think of combat and shooting skill as deviations of what, for lack of a better word, I'll refer to as normal technique, and tend to associate each with 5 points of Ws and Bs respectively. E.g. I'd say that three fighters of equal level might be a fencer of Ws 60 + feint, a ferocious fighter with Ws 60 + furious assault and a 'normal' swordsman with Ws 65. The point is that if you are giving him these abilities to reflect his combat style I'd suggest taking 5 off his Ws and Bs, as both are currently at what I'd say is the right 'raw' level for him , without supplimentary skills. If you were just trying to correct the fact that he had no abilities then I'd not bother with them, as there is nothing wrong with a character with no 'special abilities'. Plain dumb luck might suit him, but would be a bit of a cliche', so I'd not give it.


Vori Kraye
I like the clerical error plot point.
How could she find Frum, let alone take him somewhere safe if she was blind? Also the explosion would very likely have ruined her ears before it blew parts off her. And why has only one eye been replaced? Assuming, by the bionics she has, that the explosion was on her right, I'd give her a bionic right eye, a regular left eye, and two bionic ears.

Again the stats are appropriate. I'd have thought that she could handle herself a bit better in a brawl, but that isn't neccessarily the case. I take it that unaltered S is so low because she only has one unaltered arm? Even so, given her 'impressive physical fitness' I'm make it in the 28-35 range, and I'd give T a small boost for the same reason. I, Wp, Sg and Nv are about what I'd expect, though I might be a tad low and Sg a tad high. She is a good leader according to the stats, which wasn't something I got from the background.

While her lack of reloads for the pulse carbine is understandable because of their unavailability, I doubt she would choose it as her primary weapon is she couldn't get her hands on one or two. I'd also expect her to suppliment it with a laspistol or other sidearm, maybe even two. Alternatively a combat shotgun might be a good backup, though personally I think I prefer the pistol(s). I've commented above on her bionics. I don't think a shock maul is the way to go. She might have a reason to choose it but I'd expect something less exotic and specialised, like maybe a chain blade attachment, given her prefference for shooting.
One last kit issue, there are times when an alien weapon would draw undue and unfriendly attention. Frum might just leave his cataplut at home at rely on his sidearm and a more mundane sword, but as I bodyguard, a proffesional fighter, I expect she might have an alternative, be it a high powered lasgun or a automatic combat shotgun etc. What do you think?

The true grit suits her. Hipshooting too to an extent, but go back to what I said about shooting/combat skills for Frum. I commented on the lack of replacement eye above too.


Rolamus Waff
Great backstory, really original character. I'd have thought that Frum would have a more qualified (though no doubt not as smart) medical staff on his ship.

Again, good job on the stats. As an ex-gambler, esspecially a successful one, it might be that he made sure he could handle himseld a bit for when the loosers wouldn' accept that he won, so you could booost his Ws. Or did he only attend more respectable gambling venues? How old is he? S and T are good for someone of middle to advancing years who cares a bit about their shape, but has other prioroties. If he is stereotypically ancient then even these modest values should be cut bach a bit. Given his mental capacity in other areas I'd have pegged him as quick witted too, which might call for a buff of his I, though you can be very smart without being able to think very quickely too. Wp follows for a mentally very capable person with limited actual experiance of real terrors, and Sg is easily as impressive as the background suggests. His Nv is higher than I'd expect from a non-combatant, but not excessively, and I suppose some card games take Nv. Ld too is appropriate for his vast intelect but lack of leading experience.

The digi needler suits him but I'd have thought he'd carry a more substantial weapon on him too, like a laspistol. Needle pistols don't suit servo skulls very well, what with only having 6 shots and none of the subtlety to take advantage of the silentness, I'd upgrade it to a laspistol or equivalent. I'm not a big fan of spook, the idea that a drug could temporarily give you the mutation of being a psyker seems to cheapen the genetic code manipluation it would surely involve, but as much as it is suitable for any charater, it is for this one. The grenade skull is a nice idea, though the range of grenades seems a bit too complex. Unless there are multiple 'dropper' then they would have to be releaced in a set order, which  would be useless concidering the speciallity of the grenades it has. I'd suggest 4 of the same grenade (maybe smoke or blind) and give Waff the other to use himself. Also I recon a small lancher (spring loaded or whatever) could be incorporated that allows the skull to throw them at S 20ish, but it recoils a yard away from the direction it is throwing.

I'm covering this in chronological order, so sorry if there's repetition, deviation or hesitation - it's late.

As said, drop the Stalker shells and pick up a lighter Bolt Pistol from Marco's Armoury. Or, as you said, play with the stats a little yourself. It'll fit better with the character. Failing that, a really nicely tooled up Stubber, dueling pistol or something. Personally I'd pick the light Bolt Pistol though - it's still very much a badge of status, bolt weaponry.

The Wards are good - keep them. Same for the parrot, that's pretty good too.

Personally I still don't like the shuriken catapult, but it's probably not a universal ting, so don't drop if it if you like it. As a sidenote, I seem to remember someone staying the Rulebook stats are way off for it - I can't remember how though.

I like the grenade-skull idea - it's a nice novel little mechanic and a good idea.

As Marco says, the official rules for eye loss are crap, so use his.

On Cade's points: Depending on whether you want to hit the Conclave norms or your local group's, the stats might need juggling. If they're suitable for your group, keep 'em. Otherwise, much as Cade says.

If you're using the Bolt Pistol, you could include a note in the extended background about it, to the effect of his ship's armoury manufacturing a small quantity of shells for him - the basic explode-on-impact flavour should be within their reach, and wouldn't need all that much stat-juggling after adjustment for the smaller sized pistol. If it makes him stingy with his shooting, all the better. I certainly don't advocate swapping it for an 'easier' weapon.

The range-finder/laser sight is something to think about. Again, I agree with Cade here.

I agree that Kraye's kit could do with padding out or a slight rethink. Consider it.

Waff's kit looks fine to me. The skull may be one of his medical aides with additional combat subroutines, and the grenade skull is good. I like the idea of stacking them, so that they're dropped in order - requires minimal engineering for the characters IC, and OOC adds a bit of thought to it's use.

Finally, and not terribly relevantly:

Cade, I think you're looking at the Spook and psykers issue a little wrong.
For there to be psykers at all in 40K, reality and hence the human brain has to work a little differently. The mutation required to have a whole new brain lobe, organ, whatever, in psykers would make them different enough from humans that they'd almost certainly be a completely distinct species, rather than just a mutant.
I think it'd work more like how some people are just really good with their hands, or at maths, but in a whole new direction of thought/awareness/perception.
Chemically/genetically/physiologically speaking, they'd grow up with more of a given chemical produced in the brain - so rather than having extra testosterone and being predisposed to putting on muscle, they'd have more psykone and a bigger psychic lobe of the brain. Or how tall people get tall and short people don't, but with psychicness - the potential is there, technically possible, but it's a matter of an individual's unique hormone levels.

Spook would in that sense act like... LSD or something, maybe (I'm not so great with my neurochemistry) - it would cause a person to use that lobe more, or think in the 'correct' way to utilise every human's latent ability (however small that usually is in the average 40K human).

Anyway, in the unlikely event that you want to pursue this, I think it would be polite to start a new thread rather than have it out here.

This post has got a little huge and aimless really...

QuoteIf you're using the Bolt Pistol, you could include a note in the extended background about it, to the effect of his ship's armoury manufacturing a small quantity of shells for him - the basic explode-on-impact flavour should be within their reach, and wouldn't need all that much stat-juggling after adjustment for the smaller sized pistol. If it makes him stingy with his shooting, all the better. I certainly don't advocate swapping it for an 'easier' weapon.

These are bolt round, rare, revered, self propelled micro rockets with HEAP warheads and explosive firststage accelerants. There are probably forge worlds that aren't privy to their feircly guarded manufacturing process, I don't believe for a second that some non-chartered rogue trader has the knowledge or resources to make them. Explosive bullets sure, bolt shells not a chance.

What's wrong with a more practical, more available and, as you say, easier, sidearm? You suggested a tooled up dueling pistol before that would suit well. He could easily get some of the more interesting special ammunition types from Marco's list, explosive, incenduary, cutter and frangible all sound nasty. It would be a nice, precision counterpart to the massive rate of fire shuriken catapult.

I think a somewhat lower-tech variant o the bolt shell might be produceable by a very well outfitted armourer, if the ship's resources were to stretch that far.
Obviously, as you say, the full-blown bolt shell with all it's capabilities are a bit too complex, but if you strip the bolt shell down to it's basic concept - a mini-RPG - and then try and make them, it might be doable.
That'd be far less effective, but that's why I figured on much lower damage.
And, being so complex to make, it'd make sense that they were in very short supply, so he'd be stingy about firing them off.
I went so far to justify it because Uilleam said he wanted the bolt pistol - as you pointed out, the tooled-up deulling pistol is probably the better choice.

Well if you are suggesting a pistol that fires custom made explosive bullets rather than STC bolt rounds then I'd suggest using rules for a magnum or high power stubber with the explosive ammo option. The Bolt weapons on the list are designed around the full on STC .75 calibre bolt shell. He could always fire custon explosive rounds from a tooled up duelling pistol too, combine your ideas.

Quote from: TheNephew on November 22, 2009, 03:24:20 AM...so rather than having extra testosterone and being predisposed to putting on muscle, they'd have more psykone and a bigger psychic lobe of the brain.

Not sure I'm too keen on this idea.

That would imply you could make someone a psyker by injecting them with hormones as they grew up, and I'm not aware of any references like that. Also, the idea of a distinct lobe would suggest that you could perform a psychic lobotomy and "de-psyker" someone (also, no references that I know of.)

I think, if anything, it has to be built into other parts of the brain, and you can't just point at anything and say: "This is the psychic bit"

Here is the explanation of how Frum gained the Phase sword - http://www.the-conclave.co.uk/forum/index.php?topic=362.0

I have decided to use the reduced stats for the bolt pistol calling it an explorator pattern bolt pistol. I think I should still use stalker shells since they lack the complex mass reactive tip and produce less recoil, both traits that seem to suit it. I guess I'll drop the range finder from the shiruken catapult. But there isn't any point in replacing it with a laser sight because conversely to the range finder, the laser sight might be useful in reality, but it is pointless on a rapid fire weapon in the game.

My justification for enforce will is that Frum would use it to make people agree to dodgy trades, or in gambling if he scanned is opponents mind and found they had an unbeatable hand he would enforce will on them and make them fold. I have also modified Frum's stats slightly to tweak them into conclave standard.  

Kraye wasn't totally blinded, her left eye still had a bit of sight in it, although not enough that it wasn't prudent to replace with bionics, as for the right eye the nerves were damaged too much for a bionic eye to be useful there. I like the idea of the explosion deafening her, so I'll make her ears bionics. Sg and Ld lowered slightly, S slightly increased.

I intended to give her an additional reload for the pulse carbine but forgot it along with the armour values. I agree with you about giving her a sidearm either a naval pistol or a laspistol.

Waff is young to middle aged, certainly not the ridiculously cliché old sage, where do all the sages hide in their early lives? I'll drop the reference to him being Frum's personal surgeon, although I think he'd know enough medicine to qualify for his medic skill. I think Waff would have to go to any gambling venue he could get since most probably wouldn't smile on someone with his abilities for long. I'll give his S and WS a boost of 2pt each to represent that he should be young enough to keep fit without much effort and that he has probably memorised a few books on combat technique theory.

I've given Waff a 'pocket laspistol' - just a laspistol with a reduced shots capacity and weight. I'll change the grenade skull to have its grenades vertically stacked and change them all to blind.

Well the thing with the bolt pistol is that it would reqire him to needlessly expose himself in order to aquire it, keep it functional and keep in ammo. Perfectly possible, but is it a risk he would take? Stalker silenced shell would be difficult for a rogue trader to obtain. They have access to much exotic kit through their shady contacts and alien friends, but neither would be able to provide such high end Imperial technologhy.

Don't decide against the laser sight because it isn't useful in game. Go with what's in character. Either the GM will make it work appropriately or he won't, but that shouldn't affect the characters decision, nor therefore yours.

Quote from: Inquisitor Cade on November 22, 2009, 05:17:14 PM
Well the thing with the bolt pistol is that it would reqire him to needlessly expose himself in order to aquire it, keep it functional and keep in ammo. Perfectly possible, but is it a risk he would take? Stalker silenced shell would be difficult for a rogue trader to obtain. They have access to much exotic kit through their shady contacts and alien friends, but neither would be able to provide such high end Imperial technologhy.

Take a look at the Rogue Trader RPG for examples of just how broad a Rogue Trader's ability to acquire things is. A sufficiently well-connected Rogue Trader can obtain pretty much anything he wants, his monetary resources and connections capable of opening doors for him that would be closed to all others, with Inquisitors, the Supreme Magi of Forge Worlds, the most prestigious of Navigators and the Lord-Commanders of entire Sectors of the Imperium the only other individuals (as opposed to organisations) that have the same kind of access to resources.

Quote from: MarcoSkoll on November 22, 2009, 04:36:02 PMI think, if anything, it has to be built into other parts of the brain, and you can't just point at anything and say: "This is the psychic bit"

Had it not been half three in the morning, I probably would have conveyed my point a little better - the separate lobe thing was just to make it excessively clear, but as you say, it's more likely to be a property/function of a large area of the brain.

As for being able to inject hormones to make children grow up as a psyker - that'd come under the Warp aspect of the abilities, with humanity being far from able to manipulate the 'soul' equivalent of the hormones necessary to make someone a psyker.

I may give it some more thought and write it up, though I know there's been discussions of what makes a psyker a psyker.

A sufficiently well-connected Rogue Trader can obtain pretty much anything he wants (//http://)

True but first this guy isn't a hereditary rogue trader he

Quoteis the second son of a rogue trader and though he isn't covered by his father's hereditary charter, his father used his influences to get Yonnur non hereditary letters of marquee.

Second while I'm sure he could get a supply of stalker shells I think that to do so would jeperdise the

Quotehis fear of the inquisition leads him to spend very little time at all in imperial space.

because he is an unsanctioned psyker part of the background.

Another problem with the bolt pistol became evedent in the IC reference, when he used his eldar shuriken catapult so as not to waste precious ammo.


I did like the IC thread. I think at first he was a bit blase' about using his powers, though I thought you did it well towards the end. I see that you recognise the 'blunt' aspect of the Tau, but I'm not sure even the reduced effectivness telepaty he accomplised would have been possible.

Ok how about this as a solution for the bolt pistol issue.

Explorator pattern bolt pistol.
Type – pistol
Range – J
Mode – single
Damage – 2D10
Shots – 5
Reload – 2
Weight – 15

Frum carries this bolt weapon because of its value as a status symbol. The ammunition for the pistol is not standard bolt rounds; instead the Explotator fires gas launched shells that lack the complex mass reactive tip of most bolt ammunition types. This serves three main functions, firstly the ammunition is simpler to manufacture, secondly it creates less recoil making it easier to wield and thirdly the firing of these shells places less stress on the gun, allowing for a thinner, lighter barrel. Further stress is relieved from the barrel by the fact that the Explorator has a slower rate of fire than other bolt weapons; this has the benefit of reducing the amount of maintenance the weapon requires to remain at top functionality.

Unfortunately ammunition for the Explorator bolt pistol as well as being less devastating, is not as common as standard bolt ammunition and Frum needs to rely on the manufacturing capabilities of his own fleet for the majority of his supply. Whilst some of the artisans in Frum's fleet are capable of making perfect duplicates of the Explotator bolts their time is worth more on other tasks, and the rest make the occasional error. Firing the Explorator bolt pistol is a risky action, the result of the risky action being failed is that the shot automatically misses. Furthermore since the Explorator shells are initially launched by compressed gas they do not heat the barrel of the pistol. Whilst this is an advantage in normal or high temperature conditions, reducing the need for barrel maintenance, in very low temperatures such as in the vacuum of space the risk of the weapon freezing is high. Due to this should the pistol fail a risky action when operating in very low temperatures it is jammed and cannot be fired again until its temperature has been normalised and the barrel cleared (next game/GM discretion).

If it doesn't fire bolt rounds, I'd say it isn't a bolt weapon.

The reduced rate of fire... Marco's rules imply that purely semiautomatic guns can achieve 2 shots an action. If this can't then I assume it needs manual cocking between shots? Does this mean fireing is a two handed proccess?

My advice would be to either take a stubber with expensive special rounds (a high power stubber with explosive rounds is more powerful than your 2D10 sudo bolt shells, or else take Marco's light bolt pistol and say that he makes his own ammo that fits and works with it in place of bolt shell. These shells lack the self propulsion of bolt shells so require a bigger charge to give reasonable ballistic performance (without it the shell would plop to the ground way too quickely) and as a result it has -10acc, suffers High Recoil and does -3 damage compaired to the full bolt shell. I really suggest the former. He has other ways he can display his status, and a 75. calibre round is less proctical than a bolt shell.

They are still rocket propelled, they just use gas to get them up to a decent enough speed exiting the barrel that they could be dangerous at close range. To be honest it isn't really much different from Marco's light bolt pistol some advantages, some disadvantages and since he's only going to be carrying around 5 shots I think its a pretty fair compromise.

The alternative to it is just ditching the sidearm altogether rather than replacing it with a stubber, since it doesn't inspire me at all. He has still got the shiruken catapult after all and if he finds himself on an Imperial planet where he cant carry an Eldar weapon around then that probably the sort of place he could pick up bolt ammo anyway rendering the whole point moot.

It's not that vital at this stage anyway, I wont have time to convert him until christmas, at which time I might decide I don't think he should carry a bolt pistol after all.

QuoteThey are still rocket propelled, they just use gas to get them up to a decent enough speed exiting the barrel that they could be dangerous at close range.

Well in my opinion the technology to build shells like that is too advanced for him to be able to manufacture his own. The other advantage of a stubber or an autopistol is that he'll have at least one gun that doesn't cost a fortune in ammunition with every shot. And some of Marco's special ammunition should make it worthwhile.

Fair enough, bolt pistol dropped. Not interested in a stubber though, its not about the effectiveness just don't fancy it. I think I'm going to drop the familiar too, the more I think about it the less likely it seems.

Might I commend the standard issue laspistol as a practical weapon to conceal beneath a robe/coat for when there is call for a sidearm.

You could keep the light bolt pistol in the background, then if you were in a campaign and bolt rounds became available he could dust it of and bring it out to play.

Quote from: Inquisitor Cade on November 24, 2009, 02:25:36 PM
Well in my opinion the technology to build shells like that is too advanced for him to be able to manufacture his own.

I disagree.  He has a ship, and therefore is almost certainly going to have contacts in the Mechanicus in order to maintain it.  Also, it's entirely possible he'll be accompanied on some of his expeditions by an Explorator keen to journey outside the Imperium.  As such, it doesn't seem hugely unlikely that he could have an Explorator-pattern bolt pistol and the contacts in order to procure/produce a supply of ammunition for it.  It's almost immaterial whether or not he has a hereditary charter -  he's a effectively a Rogue Trader and will therefore have the backing of some influential people keen to profit from his expeditions.  Added to that, his family do have a hereditary charter and can no doubt procure all sorts of things even easier than he can.

I'd add the pistol back in if that's what you feel your character ought to be carrying - after all, you know your character better than any of us.

I agree that it would be entirely possible for him to get a bolter and ammo, but there are many reasons why this character wouldn't. It's complete impracticality for starters, but mostly the fact that he is averse to spending time in the imperium due to his entirely justified fear of the inquisition. It is one of my favorite things about the character, and makes his status as a rogue psyker much more plausable. Would he really jepordise that just to be able to use a specific gun that isn't even that useful? Finaly there was the little absurdity of him fireing eldar shuriken catapult ammo in order to save the more valuble stuff in his sidearm. Surely that should be the other way around!

But as Kaled said, Uilleam made the character so he is in the best position to judge. I'm guilty again of stubborness, so sorry about that. I've presented my views and arguments so now it's your call.