I can't remember where I read it but I did stumble upon something recently about the Sororitas having the Black Carapace as well. Has anyone else heard/read this? That is the last implant the SMs undergo and it isn't dependent upon any of the other implants, so why the heck not?
In game terms what advantages would the Black Carapace confer? In the SM reference it seems to only grant an Initiative bonus in regards to awareness checks... not very a fluffy description but I'm guessing this means "preysight", HUDs, etc.
Unless I'm wildly mistaken, it's actually quite the inverse.
Only SMs have the Black Carapace, which is why their power armour is significantly more sophisticated than that of any other Imperial forces (save perhaps a well "upgraded" Techpriest). The power armour of the Sororitas and the Inquisition is woefully less advanced.
The reason why not is that the only source of the Black Carapace is progenoid glands, which are in very short supply. With only two to each Marine, and with some being spoilt, some lost in war, and some needing to be submitted to Mars for checks, Space Marine chapters cannot possibly spare any Black Carapaces for any other Imperial force.
So, unless someone can correct me, I have to say no to Black Carapace for anyone but Space Marines
IIRC - in the "Making of a Space Marine" article it actually refers to the Black Carapace as the defining Astartes implant. So, no. SMs only.
Moreover, Astartes implants aren't you're run-of-the-mill enhancements. They all have to be implanted during teen years before the body matures too much to accept the new tissue, and even then it's not a guarantee. After that, most Astartes need corrective therapy from time to time anyway.
In both background and game terms the Black Carapace allows an Astartes to interface with his power armour - this more or less boils down into his being able to use the autosenses as if they were part of his body, allows the armour to keep tabs on his vitals, small things like that ... I am mildly glad to see that nobody's mistaken the Black Carapace for subdermal armour
Tullio
Advanced power armour suits, those used but the AdMech for example might well use a DNI, probably through an interface at the base of the neck. More "mass production" Power Armour (such as that employed by the Sororitas) I would expect to use a less invasive system, a body suit loaded with sensors which detect movement of the wearer and transfer positional information to the armour for example. It is a suit of this nature which I've used to allow for the training and aclimatisation of Neonate Marines to the armour the will eventually wear - once their Black Carapace has been implanted, matured and had its armour interfaces added.
Which in itself is an important factor to consider, IIRC the Black Carapace in itself does not allow a Marine to interface with their armour, it requires surgical modification and (IIRC) cybernetic implantation after it reaches full growth before a Marine is capable of making full use of their armour's systems.
Quote from: InquisitorHeidfeld on December 03, 2009, 01:14:40 PM...the Black Carapace in itself does not allow a Marine to interface with their armour, it requires surgical modification and (IIRC) cybernetic implantation after it reaches full growth before a Marine is capable of making full use of their armour's systems.
Yup, that's how I remember it too.
As DA said, the Black Carapace is the defining Space Marine implant, and is for them alone.
I did wonder how the Sororitas' armour worked - a reactive mechanism for power-assisting movement would surely be clunky and slow, and as such completely unsuitable for any sort of combat, especially hand to hand where making movements in the order of reaction times become vital.
Having said all of that, I think that, whilst the Black Carapace is certainly a defining characteristic of the Astartes, not available to other forces, I do think that the parameters of the Inquisitor game give us a little more leeway than the average 40k player.
I would say that there are a number of potential character types that could potentially have access to a Black Carapace in non-Astartes personnel, either allowing a better us of powered armour or - more likely - a full neural interface with a suite of sophisticated wetware autosenses. Such character archetypes include - but are not limited to:
1. Members of the Martian Collegium Biologis and/or Genetor, responsible for overseeing the tithe of Astartes geneseed, who might implant it into either themselves or a suitable skitarius, menial or servitor in order to field-test its reliability and functionality.
2. Members of the putative Ordo Astartes, for similar reasons, albeit with more of a selfish emphasis.
3. Hydra Cult members, affiliated with the Alpha Legion, who might receive such implants as a part of their initiation to better assist them in their infilitration role.
R.
Quote from: precinctomega on December 03, 2009, 01:48:18 PMSuch character archetypes include - but are not limited to...
I think we can safely say, any such characters will be very rare. (Its effects might however be replicated by other means.)
In answer to the original question, the answer is still no, Sororitas do not have the Black Carapace.
It's still only Space Marines and the very few people who could reasonably get their hands on Progenoid glands who could have a Black Carapace. I would definitely say that "spare" Progenoids are a definite
Legendary item.
Mars is not where the tithe of Geneseed is sent.
Marine Chapters tithe to Holy Terra and specifically to Lab 23 (IIRC... Though it might be 17... I'll have to check).
Bear in mind that Geneseed and the zygotes grown from it are among the most valuable thing in the entire Imperium, significant use of them requires the Emperor's personal approval. Even the testing which must occur to ensure that the zygotes are developing properly is likely to be extremely tightly controlled.
Keep in mind also that all stages of implantation are accompanied by significant drug, psychological or hypnotherapies to allow them to bond properly with the recipiant. Nicking a Black Carapace zygote is not going to work on its own.
I would suggest that a reactive mechanism for inducing gross movements in a power assisted suit would be suitable for combat, even hand fighting provided such a reactive mechanism were sensitive enough, quick enough and the user well enough used to its operation. I would suggest that the Sororitas and power armour would come under all of those classifications.
Quote from: InquisitorHeidfeld on December 04, 2009, 12:55:19 PM
Mars is not where the tithe of Geneseed is sent.
That's debatable - there are plenty of sources that explicitly say that the tithe is sent to the Adeptus Mechanicus on Mars as well as some that say it is sent to Terra; however as far as I can see all mentions of the storage vaults place them on Terra. I'd say it's possible therefore that the geneseed is sent first to Mars to be tested, and then transferred to Terra to be stored. It's also possible that there are labs where geneseed is tested on both planets.
Remind me, where's the lab 23/17 reference from?
I believe it's from the Cursed Founding short fiction from White Dwarf.
However, remember that the Imperium is a complex and ever-changing web of intrigue. Some chapters may not ever send their tithe to the Segmentum Solar, but to other forgeworlds trusted to conduct the appropriate tests and purity checks.
The idea that the geneseed all goes to Mars/Earth is a convenient shorthand, much like saying that the Imperial Tithe goes to the Golden Throne.
At different times in history it might have gone to Ophelia VII, Nova Terra or even nowhere at all as the authorities weren't trusted with such precious materiel by the Adeptus Astartes.
R.
Its older than that - the 40k Compendium.
Though I haven't yet remembered to check the reference...
Quote from: InquisitorHeidfeld on December 09, 2009, 12:19:52 PM
Its older than that - the 40k Compendium.
The bit where Doctor Outek gives the Emperor a tour of the lab where they're creating the zygotes? Or some other section?
EDIT: A quick Google search suggests Outek's tour was of lab 9 - but I don't know of any evidence saying that's where the geneseed tithe is sent.
There is a fabus bile short story in a chaos codex that has him attacking a gene store somewhere that is not terra or mars
and in Storm of Iron that gene store is not on terra or mars either
its possible that gene store and testing facilities exists within each segmentums or close to concentrations of chapters and that a sample of the genes collected are sent on to mars or terra for library storage
Storm Of Iron features the Iron Warriors attacking an AdMech fortress that was described by one character as one of only two facilities in the Imperium where geneseed is stored (of course, there may be more that the character didn't know about).
Concerning the abilities of a suit which is not hard-wired to your character, take a look at this:
www.popsci.com/node/20689
While it's nowhere near the suits which we are currently discussing, as it's more of a heavy lifter than an protective suit, it still has very fast reaction times, as it evaluates the movements of the user several thousand times per second and adjusts the motion of the suit to compensate; it does all of this from only a few actual contact points (hands & feet being the main ones). The best explanation of this was when Steve Jacobsen, the designer of the suit, showed how it worked by getting a photographer to walk around with his young daughter standing on his feet and holding his hands so that they faced the same direction. Within a few minutes, they had cohesive and clear movements, with whatever she did being echoed almost perfectly by her father, who's movements she was effectively controlling. This principle is how the XOS works, and could feasibly be the basis for some dubious 40k "science" regarding powered suits.
On a side note, I WANT one of those!